Growing tree mechanics

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The problem is that once you got a Q100 tree sprout, you never need one more. And everytime you plant the tree it will get you a Q100 tree.

- The quality of the trees should calculate from more factors or get worse over time, like be effected from the wheather, soil quality, climat zone etc.
- Also, if the trees grow some new trees in its surrounding and the forest becomes dense, the trees should not be grown to major, because of less light and water etc.
- There should be more visibile growing stages or some more names, instead of just minor, medium and major
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Comments (15)
  • Accepted Answer

    Thursday, April 09 2015, 07:32 AM - #Permalink
    1
    Also the damn forest soil should have some part into the quality of the planted tree. Normal soil works for crops but forest soil q only works for mushrooms/barries/etc but trees nope.
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    Thursday, April 09 2015, 04:09 PM - #Permalink
    0
    You can fertilize regular soil to increase the quality. There is no way to increase the quality of forest soil.
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    Thursday, April 09 2015, 04:58 PM - #Permalink
    4
    Why not use a mechanic similar to the one in Haven&Hearth?
    It should take longer to plant trees at all and it should be work to improve treequality.
    So I would like it if you need to grow the saplings befor you can actualy plant them. And improve its quality this way, but it needs to be slowed down.
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  • Accepted Answer

    Thursday, April 09 2015, 09:36 PM - #Permalink
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    Good idea. The current 'forestry' mechanic is good but it can't hurt to have more depth to maintain your forest.
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  • Accepted Answer

    Friday, April 10 2015, 07:12 AM - #Permalink
    2
    I think it is better to add the cycle of aging and destruction of trees. Than it is over, the quality is getting worse, and how you reach 0 then the tree collapses.
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  • Accepted Answer

    Saturday, April 11 2015, 03:36 AM - #Permalink
    0
    Krinym wrote:

    I think it is better to add the cycle of aging and destruction of trees. Than it is over, the quality is getting worse, and how you reach 0 then the tree collapses.
    Trees don't die due to age. They die of disease and disaster.
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  • Accepted Answer

    Saturday, April 11 2015, 08:30 AM - #Permalink
    2
    The probably most realistic way for trees would be like
    "MAX_QUALITY" and "RECENT_QUALITY"
    "MAX_QUALITY" should be determined by skill of forester, quality of sprout and at least geological and geographical location (soil quality, altitude above sea - looks pretty strange when on the top of highest mountain you see willow forest :) and finally bonus/malus for "living space around trees" - sprout without sun cos is shaded by other trees cant live long and prosper)
    "RECENT_QUALITY" - the one you really get as player should started at 0 on tiny freshly planted sprout, should rise continually as tree being adult and bigger until reach RECENT_QUALITY=MAX_QUALITY. Then hold on this premise for some time. After that time it should start degrade as tree is old, and starting to decay till end of tree life cycle, when it dissapear. (similar mechanic as animals in coop).


    Such system is not that hard to implement but, hard to tell with big amount of trees how much its is "power hungry".

    Sorry for my english, i am not native speaker.
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  • Accepted Answer

    Saturday, April 11 2015, 10:52 AM - #Permalink
    2
    I like your idea. It is just too easy to get q=100 trees and multiply them. Makes it way to easy to get perfect silk, apples and construction materials.
    But since you have a hard time to find perfect stone or ores this is the only way to construct halfway decent structures. To clarify: The quality of devices takes some part in the quality of the crafted item. Devices made of wood have therefore an advantage over structures built with other resources. This needs some balancing.

    I found a q=100 oak and multiplied it. Now i got an unlimited supply of perfect wooden building materials which are way better to transport, since every perfect oak hardwood log can produce 12 building logs, 60 boards and 120 billets. This makes transport vehicles obsolete, at least for wood. It takes less time to just carry around perfect hardwood logs and cut them where you need them than to cut them, then load the product on a market cart, roll them over to a construction site or storage and finally unload them there. Expecially with the building logs, since you can only carry 2 at a time.

    I actually would make a big change with the soil itself. I would not differentiate between different kinds of soils but rather make soil a mixture of substances as it is in reality. It should contain clay, sand, turf, pebble stones, plant fibres and minerals (Fertilizer/Quality of the Soil). Every plant should require a certain composition of these materials to grow perfectly. And while growing they should reduce minerals.
    A sandy beach for example would have soil with 100% Sand and 0% of the others or a mixture of sand, pebble stones and rock but no turf and plant fibres. Forest Soil would have a lot plant fibres and a mixture of turf and stones and garden soil would have almost only turf with a little bit sand and pebble stones. Of course it should be possible to separate Soil (sieves and screens) and to put it back together in a different composition. Too much fertilizer should also be bad for plants.
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  • Accepted Answer

    Saturday, April 11 2015, 11:52 AM - #Permalink
    3
    Sounds awesome knoedelbrot, but even if I would love this kind of mechanic it seems a lot to complex for the common player and hard to implement. So I would suggest a system which is more based on the mechanic which is in the game already.
    Lets say the you use 'my' idea of preparing sprouts first (I like it even if I wasnt the one to come up with it ;p)
    You use a planting pot+water+soil+sprout and place it in some kind of building/garden -> after some ingamedays you get a ready-for-planting-sprout. To prevent the soil to vanish, planting it should raise the area by how much soil you used with the quality the tree got.
    Since there is not that much highquality forestsoil if you dont multiply it there needs to be a way to raise the quality and by the way I descriped its possible to slowly raise the quality. You also should regain the planting pot. Because highquality clay is hard to get too.

    There are still ways to improve this mechanic
    like you could use linecloth as a net instead of the planting pot to make it possible to improve the quality further
    or somehow reduce the quality of the soil and ->planted
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  • Accepted Answer

    Saturday, April 11 2015, 08:38 PM - #Permalink
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    I like what knoedelbrot and Lomacil said. But the system and formula should kept simple. So at first step i suggest to make Formula involving forest soil, sprout quality and space to the next tree. Maybe one can at a limit at which ground level hight tree wont grow.

    If this works better and is balanced enough, one can add additional things like planting pots with prepraring sprouts. Or like 2-3 different soil types in one pile of dirt.

    To fix the carrying problem. It should not be possible to lift a whole tree, because that is something really unrealistic. I guess you would need to pull it with animals or 2-3 people or cut it down at the place.
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  • Accepted Answer

    Thursday, April 16 2015, 09:01 AM - #Permalink
    1
    I heared it will change later so you cant move the tree as it is without preparation and I hope thats not just a rumor
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  • Accepted Answer

    Saturday, October 24 2015, 09:23 PM - #Permalink
    0
    This is kinda urgent need for fixing.
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  • Accepted Answer

    Thursday, December 10 2015, 03:11 PM - #Permalink
    0
    There must be a change -but maybe a change with some kind of a big building only ? A building that includes a radius where q100 trees can be "planted" or grow.
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  • Accepted Answer

    Thursday, December 10 2015, 05:46 PM - #Permalink
    0
    Here's an (extremely long) set of ideas for how growing trees might work:

    Maybe you could have a system where the longer a tree grows, the higher the quality of it's wood, BUT, the maximum tree growth is determined by how much space, and time, the tree has to grow, along with the forest soil-quality (which might be determined by how long the soil has remained un-farmed, and the overall quality of any mosses and fungi growing on it.).

    You might be able to increase forest soil-quality, perhaps even more-or-less permanently, by adding (a lot of) charcoal to it, which would be realistic, and which would increase the "cost" of growing trees, helping balance, and also making use of wood scraps--forest fires could do this naturally.

    Tree maturity could be divided up into several levels, for instance: oak sprout, oak sapling, young oak, mature oak, giant oak, venerable oak, and great oak. Each level could start at q1 (q1 mature oak lumber, acorns, etc), and grow over time into q100.

    Each level could require a certain amount of space to reach, though, along with a minimum quality level of sprout. In a given space, you might be able to plant up to 24 oak sprouts, which could grow into oak saplings. The same space would hold 12 young oaks which would be able to grow into mature oaks, 6 mature oaks, which would be able to reach old age, 4 old oaks, which could grow into giants, 2 giants, which could grow venerable, or a single venerable tree, which could become a great oak. (minimum space needed would depend on the species of tree--a mature redwood might require the space of a dozen mature lime trees).

    Trees that don't have enough room to grow would simply stop growing, in both size and quality, but would have the same chance, or greater, to contract diseases, so it would be valuable for a player to cull trees, to fit the species space-requirements.

    Reaching each new level of growth would always carry with it a small, but increasing, percentage chance that the tree would begin to die from disease. The percentage for a 100q sprout to become diseased might be 1%, until it reaches mature status. Past mature, the disease chance would become 5%. Disease chance could be calculated at, say, every 25 quality-points for that level of growth.

    If the tree contacted a disease before it reached maturity, it would immediately die. You'd still be able to chop the tree down, and get the lumber from it, but if left alone, the diseased tree would rot fairly quickly.

    If the disease were contracted at mature level, or later, it would survive for a while, although it would stop growing beyond it's current level--although, depending on the disease, it might perhaps still keep increasing in quality. The nice thing about this is that there are several tree diseases which actually have value. You might be able to harvest oak galls only from diseased oaks, for instance, or get heavily-knotted lumber from diseased trees which have been allowed to "mature". You could also get different types of mushrooms, from diseased trees, as well, so you wouldn't just lose your whole investment.

    The quality of the sprout could/should affect surviveability--and it should always be a good idea to grow the highest quality sprouts you can find--but maybe you could have a system where the highest quality sprouts only come from the largest, and highest-quality, trees. If you want a 100q sprout, you've got to harvest it from a 100q great tree, which is a reasonable reward, given the risks and time/space commitment involved.

    Logs taken only from the biggest trees might be needed for certain building projects, like ship's masts for instance, and logs from great trees (of any size) would be the best sources of material for things like high-end musical instruments, furniture, religious icons/totem poles, and any project requiring the straightest, strongest, most durable, and/or most beautiful wood. Great trees might even give the highest quality fruit, sap, or olive-oil.

    Once a tree reached "greatness", it might still contract diseases--with maybe a 5% chance of contracting a disease, now calculated for every single quality point it gains, but if it reached 100q, it might then grow into an "immortal" level, where it will sit at 100q "great", but, unless chopped down, it will just keep living, basically forever, free of disease (since we still have trees today, that have survived since the middle-ages, and much longer).

    "immortal" trees could still be harvested for sprouts, potentially forever, (as well as fruit, etc.), but the quality of saplings at that growth-level would become completely random--and it might not be possible to harvest 100q sprouts from any source other than a great tree, so you'd have a fairly narrow 100q sapling-harvesting window, which would make them rarer and more special.

    Such a system would encourage, and reward, growing 100q saplings, without making having one 100q sapling a game-breaker.
    It would also reward "sitting on" trees for as long as possible, and forcing players to balance immediate needs, with eventual gains.

    I realize that this isn't a completely realistic system, but I think it retains enough realism to suspend belief, while meeting many game-balancing concerns, and still being simplistic enough to grasp, with a minimum of study and practice.
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  • Accepted Answer

    Saturday, February 11 2017, 04:29 PM - #Permalink
    0
    Simple and to the point, A way to trace the growth of the trees beside "sapling, minor, medium, and major". Maybe adding in the age of the tree or how long its been in a stage. Just something so you know how long the tree has been there.

    Off topic but with the soil, a way to test the soil instead of digging it up or gathering fibers. Kinda like probing.
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