Bark Box change: You are killing PVP 2 weeks into OBT

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Bodil
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Bark Box change: You are killing PVP 2 weeks into OBT

Post by Bodil » 05 Dec 2017, 15:38

Not being able to use bark boxes to raid at anytime but JH (whenever JH actually gets patched in) means that you will now have a large portion of the PVP playerbase only log in during JH, which is exactly what happened on YO servers. This effectively killed those servers in terms of population.

The argument that you shouldn't be able to climb over castle walls is idiotic. People have been climbing over walls since walls were invented. If you want defense, you should fucking stand on those walls and shoot people assaulting them.

Myself and hundreds of other premium players did NOT join this game to shovel dirt for 166 hours a week only to be able to assault a castle for that magical 1 hour time period.

You will lose loads of players due to this change who want to do castle PVP but can only attack afk miners outside of their walls.


Edit: To the people who think raiding is too easy now and you should siege instead, here is what is required to drop a siege totem:

10 vost steel ingots per siege totem. Here's a breakdown of what's needed per ingot:

= FINAL MATERIALS LIST x 1 INGOT ~ 120 IRON INGOTS ~ 720 FLUX ~ 300 COPPER BARS ~ 300 LUMPS OF SILVER ~ 150 LUMPS OF GOLD

It gets better: To get the required flux for 10 ingots
If you have 35 herb gardens up and running (herb gardens require regional resources to build now btw)
7200/35 = ~206 cycles 206cycles * 9 hours per cycle = 1854 hours 1854 hours /24 = 77.25 days of not missing a single herb pull

Not to mention sieges are currently broken:

http://lifeisfeudal.com/forum/post118424/?hilit=siege#p118424

"As about sieges - they are not fully implemented yet, unfortunately :( We've tested them locally - there are a good amount of bugs and polishing still needs to be done. We expect to have them ready in 2-3 weeks from now. After that, you can expect that Siege Totem price might be lowered a little too.
Thank you for your patience and sorry for all the frustration we cause by our bugs."

TLDR Version: DON'T TAKE A TOY OUT OF THE SANDBOX AND REPLACE IT WITH DOG SHIT.
Last edited by Bodil on 05 Dec 2017, 16:34, edited 2 times in total.


Nothing_Personal
 
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Re: Bark Box change: You are killing PVP 2 weeks into OBT

Post by Nothing_Personal » 05 Dec 2017, 15:52

We're just going to have to relentlessly assault new claims to prevent them from getting walls up. Can't wait for steam players.

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Hodo
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Re: Bark Box change: You are killing PVP 2 weeks into OBT

Post by Hodo » 05 Dec 2017, 16:08

Bodil wrote:Not being able to use bark boxes to raid at anytime but JH (whenever JH actually gets patched in) means that you will now have a large portion of the PVP playerbase only log in during JH, which is exactly what happened on YO servers. This effectively killed those servers in terms of population.

The argument that you shouldn't be able to climb over castle walls is idiotic. People have been climbing over walls since walls were invented. If you want defense, you should fucking stand on those walls and shoot people assaulting them.

Myself and hundreds of other premium players did NOT join this game to shovel dirt for 166 hours a week only to be able to assault a castle for that magical 1 hour time period.

You will lose loads of players due to this change who want to do castle PVP but can only attack afk miners outside of their walls.



No offense but again this comes down to proper defense and planning on your fortifications. I suggest you study real castles, keeps, and baileys.

Layering defenses, some minor digging, maybe even some traps. You can keep people out of your main area with a little effort.

The final option that seems to be so appalling to so many who complain lately, is to join a larger guild/clan and work as a "kingdom" you know....like people actually did.


Bodil
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Re: Bark Box change: You are killing PVP 2 weeks into OBT

Post by Bodil » 05 Dec 2017, 16:13

Hodo wrote:
Bodil wrote:Not being able to use bark boxes to raid at anytime but JH (whenever JH actually gets patched in) means that you will now have a large portion of the PVP playerbase only log in during JH, which is exactly what happened on YO servers. This effectively killed those servers in terms of population.

The argument that you shouldn't be able to climb over castle walls is idiotic. People have been climbing over walls since walls were invented. If you want defense, you should fucking stand on those walls and shoot people assaulting them.

Myself and hundreds of other premium players did NOT join this game to shovel dirt for 166 hours a week only to be able to assault a castle for that magical 1 hour time period.

You will lose loads of players due to this change who want to do castle PVP but can only attack afk miners outside of their walls.



No offense but again this comes down to proper defense and planning on your fortifications. I suggest you study real castles, keeps, and baileys.

Layering defenses, some minor digging, maybe even some traps. You can keep people out of your main area with a little effort.

The final option that seems to be so appalling to so many who complain lately, is to join a larger guild/clan and work as a "kingdom" you know....like people actually did.


You do realize that I'm arguing for exactly what you said in your post, not against it?


Nothing_Personal
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Re: Bark Box change: You are killing PVP 2 weeks into OBT

Post by Nothing_Personal » 05 Dec 2017, 16:18

When steam hits there will be 1000's of negative reviews because the only people you can PVP during non-jh are going to be those without walls.

Everyone will just target any group without walls due to boredom.

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Hodo
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Re: Bark Box change: You are killing PVP 2 weeks into OBT

Post by Hodo » 05 Dec 2017, 16:25

Bodil wrote:
You do realize that I'm arguing for exactly what you said in your post, not against it?


Didnt mean to come across as I am arguing with you, but more expanding and agreeing with.


Bodil
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Re: Bark Box change: You are killing PVP 2 weeks into OBT

Post by Bodil » 05 Dec 2017, 16:27

Hodo wrote:
Bodil wrote:
You do realize that I'm arguing for exactly what you said in your post, not against it?


Didnt mean to come across as I am arguing with you, but more expanding and agreeing with.


Got it. I agree 100% that proper planning, construction and coordination with your alliance/friends should be what decides if a castle assault is successful and not a bandaid fix to prevent wall scaling.


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Re: Bark Box change: You are killing PVP 2 weeks into OBT

Post by Mlstevens13 » 05 Dec 2017, 16:28

Considering that this is Life is Feudal, think about the Feudal era.
What happened to bandit groups that ran around raiding unprotected cities because taking the time to plan a real raid on a real city was too much effort?
Oh yeah, they got hunted down and wiped.

Yes, any wall is and should be surmountable. Any defense can be overcome.

Yes, active defense is expected.

Yes, raiding new players because 'you're bored' will get you marked and hunted. I hope you spend as much time keeping your base defended as you expect others to. Any nomad can be followed.

Will the thousands of people who only want an easy way to take what others earned write bad reviews? Does anyone care? If the mechanics are well made, there will be many many more reviews on how good it is.

Want to know what effect the reviews have on LiF: YO? The easy raiding keeps people away. If the reviews read: It's so hard to raid people because you have to work in a team and plan it out, there would be SO MANY people playing the game. Real pvpers.


Nothing_Personal
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Re: Bark Box change: You are killing PVP 2 weeks into OBT

Post by Nothing_Personal » 05 Dec 2017, 16:43

Mlstevens13 wrote:Considering that this is Life is Feudal, think about the Feudal era.
What happened to bandit groups that ran around raiding unprotected cities because taking the time to plan a real raid on a real city was too much effort?
Oh yeah, they got hunted down and wiped.

Yes, any wall is and should be surmountable. Any defense can be overcome.

Yes, active defense is expected.

Yes, raiding new players because 'you're bored' will get you marked and hunted. I hope you spend as much time keeping your base defended as you expect others to. Any nomad can be followed.

Will the thousands of people who only want an easy way to take what others earned write bad reviews? Does anyone care? If the mechanics are well made, there will be many many more reviews on how good it is.

Want to know what effect the reviews have on LiF: YO? The easy raiding keeps people away. If the reviews read: It's so hard to raid people because you have to work in a team and plan it out, there would be SO MANY people playing the game. Real pvpers.


You can't be serious....Real PVPers don't care about safe zones

I'm actually in favor of going back to no claims more than this crap


Gruber
 
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Re: Bark Box change: You are killing PVP 2 weeks into OBT

Post by Gruber » 05 Dec 2017, 16:43

Mlstevens13 wrote:Want to know what effect the reviews have on LiF: YO? The easy raiding keeps people away. If the reviews read: It's so hard to raid people because you have to work in a team and plan it out, there would be SO MANY people playing the game. Real pvpers.


Peal men would not hide behind a wall and cry in forums that they do not get a save bubble by gamedesign.

What do you do if pvp is disabled by gamedesign now? hide behind your walls, using autoclicker and watching tv? Is that fun to you?

Whats next? being unable to attack someone outside of battles?
LiF the most Softcore autoclicker game. Life is millenials crying about pvp...


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Re: Bark Box change: You are killing PVP 2 weeks into OBT

Post by MulGirtab » 05 Dec 2017, 16:53

I think we should be able to scale walls with any reasonable item that can support the weight of the player. My issues is the ones glitching the placement system to use 3 bark boxes to get up a keep wall when it should take about 8.


Tetsel
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Re: Bark Box change: You are killing PVP 2 weeks into OBT

Post by Tetsel » 05 Dec 2017, 16:57

Gruber wrote:
Peal men would not hide behind a wall and cry in forums that they do not get a save bubble by gamedesign.


Well actually the OP is crying... just sayin...

Abloobloo it required effort to kill people, abloobloo.
The devs better listen to me or I'll got back to Chivalry Medieval Warfare, abloobloo


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Re: Bark Box change: You are killing PVP 2 weeks into OBT

Post by Dtvh » 05 Dec 2017, 17:00

Mlstevens13 wrote:
What happened to bandit groups that ran around raiding unprotected cities because taking the time to plan a real raid on a real city was too much effort?




They became rich until they died, is that so bad? If you know how scandinavians went up and about 1000 years ago.


Mlstevens13
 
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Re: Bark Box change: You are killing PVP 2 weeks into OBT

Post by Mlstevens13 » 05 Dec 2017, 17:03

Dtvh wrote:
Mlstevens13 wrote:
What happened to bandit groups that ran around raiding unprotected cities because taking the time to plan a real raid on a real city was too much effort?




They became rich until they died, is that so bad? If you know how scandinavians went up and about 1000 years ago.


In LiF, death makes you weaker. Bandits will die, too. Frequently. Weakening themselves by their actions until they leave or join a community that builds walls.

They'll eventually run out of unprotected camps as everyone bands together to defend against them. Then they'll be forced to build their own cities and build up resources or stop raiding. Either way, they'll stop raiding.


Bodil
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Re: Bark Box change: You are killing PVP 2 weeks into OBT

Post by Bodil » 05 Dec 2017, 17:05

Tetsel wrote:
Gruber wrote:
Peal men would not hide behind a wall and cry in forums that they do not get a save bubble by gamedesign.


Well actually the OP is crying... just sayin...

Abloobloo it required effort to kill people, abloobloo.
The devs better listen to me or I'll got back to Chivalry Medieval Warfare, abloobloo


Instead of just saying "The OP is crying" maybe you should actually read the post in full and try to comprehend the points I made.

Or are you just one of those AFK plant fiber farmers that got killed inside your base? If so, feel free to continue to QQ.


Lord_Sitruc
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Re: Bark Box change: You are killing PVP 2 weeks into OBT

Post by Lord_Sitruc » 05 Dec 2017, 17:07

I have mixed feelings about this. One way I think this is good. Lack of prep time and cost to attack a settlement with walls was a little out of wack. I also didn't like how cheesey it felt to do this to get over walls.


On the other side. This has swung the direction of balance to far into the defenders favor. I can at this point build a wall around me entire claim, and have no cares in the world till judgment hour.

Overall I feel like this change should have been made, but only after at least one other method of assaulting walls was put into place.

When we played on the arkhaya server, we had outlawed cheesey wall jumping like this on the server, but the gm modded in a siege tower that was loud, cumbersome, slow and scary. It led to some of the most epic fights I have experienced. Trying to keep them from getting to the walls. Trying to hold the breach once it was there.

Please Please get us something like this, siege tower, battering ram, hell ladders, fast, otherwise i feel this change will do more harm then good. Hell even if you make it 60-90 warfare engineering, at least its still an option.

People with walls will be too safe now. I understand the devs want to slow the roll of the pvpers but once again I think this goes to far. let us build something anything, to get up those walls and this whole problem goes away

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Re: Bark Box change: You are killing PVP 2 weeks into OBT

Post by Hodo » 05 Dec 2017, 17:08

Tetsel wrote:
Well actually the OP is crying... just sayin...

Abloobloo it required effort to kill people, abloobloo.
The devs better listen to me or I'll got back to Chivalry Medieval Warfare, abloobloo


What the hell is "abloobloo"?

The OP isnt crying he is stating a point. And oddly enough he is right.

If you limit attacks to one magical time a day, that is the ONLY time you will see most people.

Then there will be complaints about the time being to early, or to late, or while they are at work or while they are sleeping... or on vacation or masturbating or whatever.


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Re: Bark Box change: You are killing PVP 2 weeks into OBT

Post by Jubooti » 05 Dec 2017, 17:14

Even when they do activate JH it wont be able to sustain the population for it. So what they have done now is take away one option (however bullshit it may have been to use barkboxes or tables) that worked in someway to leave us with a option that is not yet activated and when it will be activated since its a JH it will lag out every server that any major guild / alliance goes to. The kingdom im in could get enough people on to break every server we went into in just a matter of hours, imagine when every group have a time set and how many more people that will mean on both sides.. The only people left to enjoy the JH and a bigger chance of pvp is smaller group. Yeah sure eventually sieges and instance battles will start to happen and this will matter much less. But open world pvp is still so much fun and now bit more then half of it will be gone due to the fact we cant place anything.-


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Re: Bark Box change: You are killing PVP 2 weeks into OBT

Post by Tordr86 » 05 Dec 2017, 17:19

JH is a terrible game mechanic, It would ruin the emergent gameplay that we have now, and no, barkbox/bedroll stacking is not a part of it.


Bodil
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Re: Bark Box change: You are killing PVP 2 weeks into OBT

Post by Bodil » 05 Dec 2017, 17:49

Lord_Sitruc wrote:When we played on the arkhaya server, we had outlawed cheesey wall jumping like this on the server, but the gm modded in a siege tower that was loud, cumbersome, slow and scary. It led to some of the most epic fights I have experienced. Trying to keep them from getting to the walls. Trying to hold the breach once it was there.

Please Please get us something like this, siege tower, battering ram, hell ladders, fast, otherwise i feel this change will do more harm then good. Hell even if you make it 60-90 warfare engineering, at least its still an option.
y


I played on this server and the siege towers were awesome. It required enough mats where it took some time to build, plus you could hear them from a mile away in order to put up a defense.

That server also had the ability to loot items on claim, which made raiding extremely fun.


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Re: Bark Box change: You are killing PVP 2 weeks into OBT

Post by Yurets1257 » 05 Dec 2017, 18:28

Here is an example, why PVP should be limited to JH.

Let's say all your guild-mates are from UTC+0. My guild-mates and me are from UTC+5. Now, I suppose that there is a time, when none of your guild-mates are in the game (which is truly unbelievable, because you are in the game 24/7). The reason for your absence is that you are asleep, because it's 6:00. But for us it's already 11:00. So we come to your castle, build bark box ladder, grab everything and disappear.
But what a tragedy, you have claim, we can't get your precious, however we still want to have fun. So we stay, until some of you enter the game. And once you are in, you are dead.

But that just an example. I know, players don't sleep/eat/work/study, so there is truly no point to have claims, and JH limits you from raiding random people. [sarcasm]


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Re: Bark Box change: You are killing PVP 2 weeks into OBT

Post by Lord_Sitruc » 05 Dec 2017, 18:42

I already addressed this on another post...

Who does this? Seriously why would I waste my time hoping for someone to log in so I can get one kill before they tell everyone else to not log in so I just sit on my thumbs and waste time I could be killing/looting/producing somewhere else.

If anything I would go there kill, leave and come back later so more people are online and more potential loot for me.

Camping a base when nobody is logged on is completely unproductive and pointless. I could have much more fun scouting the next claim finding it has people in it and going there to kill them then I could ever have just sitting on a base.

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Re: Bark Box change: You are killing PVP 2 weeks into OBT

Post by Azzerhoden » 05 Dec 2017, 18:47

The way to balance this is to only allow guilds who at war to be able to drop things on the ground and get over the walls, and for wars to have a cost and be capped so guilds cannot just declare war against everyone (but they can have any number of wars declared against them).

Limiting this to Judgement Hour just reduces the number of players online. Never a good solution.

Trying to use real world analogies is a waste of time, since death in the real world is, you know, permanent. That raises the risk of 'PvP', considerably, donchathink?
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Hodo
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Re: Bark Box change: You are killing PVP 2 weeks into OBT

Post by Hodo » 05 Dec 2017, 18:53

Azzerhoden wrote:The way to balance this is to only allow guilds who at war to be able to drop things on the ground and get over the walls, and for wars to have a cost and be capped so guilds cannot just declare war against everyone (but they can have any number of wars declared against them).

Limiting this to Judgement Hour just reduces the number of players online. Never a good solution.

Trying to use real world analogies is a waste of time, since death in the real world is, you know, permanent. That raises the risk of 'PvP', considerably, donchathink?


I agree with you sir.

The "new" fix by the devs will just force pvpers to sit outside of the claims waiting for easy ganks. I know that is what I am going to start telling my raiding parties to do. We wont try to get any anyones place any more, just sit outside and wait till they come out. Why bother going in.


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Re: Bark Box change: You are killing PVP 2 weeks into OBT

Post by Blackberrygoo » 05 Dec 2017, 19:31

Holy shit your dumb (devs and OP). Just add siege towers and REMOVE THE ABILITY TO EXPLOIT VIA BARK BOXES . Siege towers can be used at ANY TIME NOT JUST WITH JUDGEMENT HOUR . A siege tower is simply for HEIGHT TO JUMP OVER A WALL - NOT TO SIEGE A WALL . Think with your brain and realize that we are not trying to remove bark box towers for realism purposes but rather for BALANCE PURPOSES . You really Fucking think that adding a proper way to hop over a wall that requires a little work is gonna make everyone sit Around and wait for judgement hour ? Only if devs make that shitty mistake of adding that . Siege towers should be able to be used to get over walls at any time - it will replace shit head bark box
Towers .

Add siege towers and siege ladders , make them a 60+ seige engineer thing , allow them to be pushed towards enemy claim at any time - but make them incredibly weak to naphtha , fire arrows , blunt arrows this way the attackers need to actually WORK TO GET A RAID GOING instead of making tHe easiest construction box , and the defenders won’t feel so exploited due to an exploitive bark box dropping on their claim . Get real and take your head out of your ass - we don’t care if making towers out of boxes can happen in real life , in a VIDEO FAME IT IS DISGUSTINGLY UNBALANCED .

Fix it NOW before you ruin this game . I love pvp but pvp is NOT 8 guys jumping the walls with an exploit to kill afk members . This bark box thing will keep most people inside fearful of constant raiders - if we get at least a high up skill that takes lots of resources to create a siege tower we will see real planned sieges (on or off of judgement hour) instead of these stupid fucking ninja raids where people are silently stacking bark boxes up against the smallest wall you have . Be smart devs , don’t listen to idiots like Original poster who think that the only way to make this game Better is to sanction exploits and create completely unimmersive raids via shitty bark box ladders .

Make a real siege equipment devs , don’t be INCOMPETENT and LAZY because you want an ugly ass realm of bark box sieges (it’s pathetic and makes no sense in game like this where repercussions of dying are so damn sky high yet it’s incredibly easy and takes no skill to raid someone with a bark box). Change this imbalance NOW and stop twiddling your thumbs devs , you are letting the KOS kiddies ruin this game and turn it into a RUST OR ARK CLONE !

Edit : TO BE CLEAR , I do NOT condone the devs “solution” to this (allowing these shit head bark box towers on judgement hour only- it’s a bandaid fix that’s a worse solution that just adding siege towers / ladders) . They need to take my idea : bring siege towers and ladders into game , make them a siege engineers job to create (60+) , allow these towers and ladders to be used on enemy claims WITH OR WITHOUT JUDGMENT HOUR , add ability to use sledgehammers / mauls to destroy the ladders and use blunt arrows or fire / naphtha to destroy the towers , remove ability to stack boxes on others claims , BOOM - a perfectly balanced pvp game right there .

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Re: Bark Box change: You are killing PVP 2 weeks into OBT

Post by Arrakis » 05 Dec 2017, 19:55

Hey guys. How about we first fix most severe issues and bugs and make the game pleasantly playable before we start implementing new features in the game? We have heard your calls and we have implemented the solution that we could at this moment in between working on important fixes. Proper solution may be implemented once servers are fully optimized, most severe issues fixed and players can properly enjoy the game. This is the highest priority right now.

Blackberrygoo, be aware, if you think that insults towards other users or us directly will change anything, you're wrong. The only thing they can change is your access to our forums. We are open to suggestions, we will gladly take a look and consider some proper, constructive criticism, but if you'll go another path, i.e. throwing insults, then I may have no choice but to exclude you from our community for the sake of preserving a nice, calm and civilized discussion.



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Re: Bark Box change: You are killing PVP 2 weeks into OBT

Post by Lord_Sitruc » 05 Dec 2017, 19:59

I think if judgment hours are implemented the way that was announced earlier and the non box stacking on non judgement hour times are both introduced at the same time, this will then have much less impact on the gameplay then what is feared.

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Re: Bark Box change: You are killing PVP 2 weeks into OBT

Post by Hodo » 05 Dec 2017, 20:22

Arrakis wrote:Hey guys. How about we first fix most severe issues and bugs and make the game pleasantly playable before we start implementing new features in the game? We have heard your calls and we have implemented the solution that we could at this moment in between working on important fixes. Proper solution may be implemented once servers are fully optimized, most severe issues fixed and players can properly enjoy the game. This is the highest priority right now.


Here is something...

The game is already leaps and bounds ahead of other indie games released of this scope. Congrats on that.


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Re: Bark Box change: You are killing PVP 2 weeks into OBT

Post by Hervean » 05 Dec 2017, 20:29

Do we have a time frame for server improvements?

Are proper siege equipment already in the works? Ladders? Towers, Rams? Is there any art done? Models? Renderings? Base code to roll those changes out shortly after the servers have been optimized? Can a team be assembled to start working on base codes, or a frame work in place to create those items "on the fly" ?

Think of all the different art skins you can make for a siege tower, or ladder. All the money to be made by the skins. Fire breathing Minotaur battering rams! (Cha ching? Is that enough incentive? Sorry. Couldn't help myself)

This is my concern. Are these changes one week out? Month? Year? Should be able to set a target date for these things, and start working towards them. Yes the server optimizations, and certain features that are already broken are important. (Horses. Server lines. Carts on server lines. Server lines.)

However, without having a way to effectively attack your enemies, people will start to just grief instead. Or just get bored and wander off to play PUBG or Arma 3, Stellaris, or whatever fotm game.

If you take away one way to "exploit" someone, somewhere is going to find another. And the second way might be a lot worse than the first..


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Re: Bark Box change: You are killing PVP 2 weeks into OBT

Post by Bodil » 05 Dec 2017, 20:49

Arrakis wrote:Hey guys. How about we first fix most severe issues and bugs and make the game pleasantly playable before we start implementing new features in the game? We have heard your calls and we have implemented the solution that we could at this moment in between working on important fixes. Proper solution may be implemented once servers are fully optimized, most severe issues fixed and players can properly enjoy the game. This is the highest priority right now.

Blackberrygoo, be aware, if you think that insults towards other users or us directly will change anything, you're wrong. The only thing they can change is your access to our forums. We are open to suggestions, we will gladly take a look and consider some proper, constructive criticism, but if you'll go another path, i.e. throwing insults, then I may have no choice but to exclude you from our community for the sake of preserving a nice, calm and civilized discussion.


The old "optimization excuse"? Someone made a working siege tower mod for YO that works RIGHT NOW. Give us that, I don't care if it's a buggy mess.

Most people would rather log in and deal with the bugs with a chance at attacking/defending a keep with a kick ass siege tower instead of doing the alternative, which is waiting weeks/months for "optimization."

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