Life is Feudal Official Forum

[iceSemple]

So I get that we want to make money off of people buying character slots and the way to do that is to limit the skill cap. But what about those of us who only want one character? If I want to play solo or in small groups, it is very difficult with a skill cap of only 400 (not including buffs from Int).

So that leads me to my suggestion.

Let us buy the same tickets that give us characters, but instead use it at increasing our skill cap on a single character. The idea would be, for the price of 1 character, you can increase your Crafting skill cap by 100.

What are the benefits of this?
1. More versatility for solo and smaller groups. It will promote them to go out and trade their valuable goods for items they dont have the time to get instead of for goods they cant get. Right now, a small group wont have anything to trade with others due to the limiting of skills IE... Why would a large guild that can make the highest quality deal with a group making low quality goods?

2. Money. More people will spend more money. I know I greatly dislike having to manage multiple characters and I am sure there are others. I feel only getting 100 from the same price is an incentive to buy another character, but for those of us that want 1 character, we pay a penalty of only getting 100 skill points from it instead of 400. This keeps it in balance.

3. Makes things easier to manage for guilds / cuts down on bloat. Guilds will be bloated with dozens of alts. Trust me, I am an EvE Online Player. If the solution for a player is to create multiple alts, they. will. do. it. cost does not matter.

4. It does not destroy any balance in the game. About the only thing doing this affects is the 30 second log off timer that we all ignore anyway. Having my 1 character with all the skills of having 8 makes little difference when I can quickly swap between the 8 characters at any time. Balance is the main reason I say to limit it to Crafting Skills, as letting someone train All of the combat skills sounds a little OP...


Thoughts?

[Varlun]

I completely disagree.

My biggest point is this: Death. When you die you lose a set number of points. They are randomly taken from crafting and combat skills. If the crafting skillcap can be increased via money, this would create a larger buffer to people losing combat skills when they die. PvPers would potentially level pretty much every crafting skill to like 30 (because they level faster at lower level) to give themselves a buffer for less re-grinding when they die. This would sorta be pay to win.

I'm also just against it entirely. The 400 skillcap is perfect, it lets everyone do ONE job. If people want to pay for alts, that's up to them. The general idea is that small groups ARE going to suffer, and that's the way it's kinda supposed to be. It's not gonna be like YO where everyone is off with their own little 5-person cliques and they don't wanna work or trade with anyone else. I want it to be where these small cliques are economically (not to mention militarily) forced to merge into larger groups. Survival of the fittest, yo.

[iceSemple]

I completely disagree.

My biggest point is this: Death. When you die you lose a set number of points. They are randomly taken from crafting and combat skills. If the crafting skillcap can be increased via money, this would create a larger buffer to people losing combat skills when they die. PvPers would potentially level pretty much every crafting skill to like 30 (because they level faster at lower level) to give themselves a buffer for less re-grinding when they die. This would sorta be pay to win.

I disagree with this point. Having 10 characters or 1. how is that any different? I can only die on one character at a time unless multi-box. Seems like I would be in more trouble by dying with a higher skill cap than if I only had 400 as now I have to retrain more high-end skills.


I should rephrase the small group thing. Small groups WITHOUT wallet whales. You might not think it, but you can bet there are going to be lots of people dumping money on alts for an advantage at crafting. Its already going to PTW inherently by having the ability to have alts. Just ask EvE Online where people will pay $15/mo just so they can train one character to sit in a cloaky ship every day and spy on targets. If there is a way, there is a will. You can bet people are going to do that here too, for things as simple as logging in and seeing whos online in a camp and logging back out before anyone can react.

Small groups already suffer from not having the numbers to get items, with such a low skill cap they suffer from not being able to do much as well. I know I keep pointing to EvE (its a great example of this type of game) but the choice to force players into large groups NEVER ends well. All it does is create large power blocs and turn players away from the game. Who wants to play a game where youre just a small cog in a giant wheel (unless youre in the top 5% who rule everything)?


On a side note, I am completely against having the skill cap period. I see this as a compromise. I would much rather the MMO not have any skill limit (or boosted at a minimum to 1000) and only have a stat limit. I rather see more people playing and murdering each other than an empty game world because the power blocs rule it. I see almost no benefit to having this skill cap besides frustration and forcing players into a play style that they do not want (so much for a game that promotes you to do what you want when you cant hardly do it..). I much rather see many small groups fighting and moving than large power blocs because of a non sense 'gate'

[JohnValentine]

LIFMMO isn't for everyone.

LIFYO already exists for players that want to be apart of 6 man organizations with skill points to be construction lancer alchemists, that poison their heavy targe while shooting longbows.

[Hereward]

JohnValentine your like a broken record when people say about the low skill cap why not take your own advice

[JohnValentine]

JohnValentine your like a broken record when people say about the low skill cap why not take your own advice

I do often post relatively the same response to this suggestion. This is likely because the idea of arbitrarily raising the skill cap past 600 points, is an easy answer to what is really a complex piece of content. It's a move designed to cater to casual success, where everyone earns a trophy just by showing up. It's a dungeon raid where purple items always drop, and groups never wipe.

What I personally love about LIF, is you can absolutely fail. That easy answers are generally seriously suboptimal. That your destiny is already illustrated by your ability to problem solve today. I am honestly reminded of Vanilla WoW, and hope against odds the developers are able to retain the magic that makes games challenging for years to come.

My advice if you have issues with skill limitations, is to study the crafting trees and find solutions. If you can't achieve your groups goals with the people you have, create a larger organization. If you don't have the time to invest in a video game to do the research and create the organization you need to achieve your groups ambitions, then perhaps look into joining a larger organization that can.

And if joining a larger more established organization isn't your thing. LIFYO exists for people that want to play LIF their way, administrate their way, have the mechanics geared towards their way. ( I mean it's poorly translated, but that's literally what the title of the game means.)

I am a broken record on this topic, absolutely. But sometimes that's because no matter how many different ways the same question is asked, it doesn't make the desired solution any better of an idea.

[iceSemple]

JohnValentine your like a broken record when people say about the low skill cap why not take your own advice

I do often post relatively the same response to this suggestion. This is likely because the idea of arbitrarily raising the skill cap past 600 points, is an easy answer to what is really a complex piece of content. It's a move designed to cater to casual success, where everyone earns a trophy just by showing up. It's a dungeon raid where purple items always drop, and groups never wipe.

What I personally love about LIF, is you can absolutely fail. That easy answers are generally seriously suboptimal. That your destiny is already illustrated by your ability to problem solve today. I am honestly reminded of Vanilla WoW, and hope against odds the developers are able to retain the magic that makes games challenging for years to come.

See, this is what I don't get about the argument. Its NOT a hand out. I am not being given anything other than access to more content. There are plenty of other arguments you can make, but this one I just dont get. As for catering to casuals, this game already caters to casuals with a 400 skill cap imo. Now you only need 1 character and in a short time you can be on the same play field as everyone else who only has 400 skill cap. There is no reward for devotion and is simply about either being a money whale with tons of alts or joining a guild.

If your worry about it being OP in combat, the current system is already OP. instead of having little control over what skills I lose, if I die I just simply have to log into another character and BAM, at max skills with full armor already on and ready to fight possibly right at the front door of whoever killed me. At least with only 1 character, I have no control over what skills I lose, all my gear drops, and I am forced home. It seems more damaging to the game (to me) to encourage having a large swath of alts.

This does not permit you to succeed in LIF. Success in this type of game is whatever you define it as. This skill cap does not challenge you. It adds an arbitrary limit that provides you with less content. This is no different than DLC, except in this case if you want more of the content you buy more characters.

PS: If you want to make the argument that other games limit content by class, just look at the WoW you mentioned: WoW has always allowed you to create 10 or more characters, with no extra cost, giving you full access to all the content in the game. In LIF, you are going to have to pay for it, which makes it no different than DLC.

[Simonred]

This is whats gonna make gonna quit this game, when fat whales just buy new skills over and over and over again just making a solo player slowely destroy a group when he gets one or two kills and just reappear with full skills and keep fighting people down to the stone age.

quality way to kill this game out of the bat

[JohnValentine]

See, this is what I don't get about the argument. Its NOT a hand out. I am not being given anything other than access to more content. There are plenty of other arguments you can make, but this one I just dont get. As for catering to casuals, this game already caters to casuals with a 400 skill cap imo. Now you only need 1 character and in a short time you can be on the same play field as everyone else who only has 400 skill cap. There is no reward for devotion and is simply about either being a money whale with tons of alts or joining a guild.

If your worry about it being OP in combat, the current system is already OP. instead of having little control over what skills I lose, if I die I just simply have to log into another character and BAM, at max skills with full armor already on and ready to fight possibly right at the front door of whoever killed me. At least with only 1 character, I have no control over what skills I lose, all my gear drops, and I am forced home. It seems more damaging to the game (to me) to encourage having a large swath of alts.

This does not permit you to succeed in LIF. Success in this type of game is whatever you define it as. This skill cap does not challenge you. It adds an arbitrary limit that provides you with less content. This is no different than DLC, except in this case if you want more of the content you buy more characters.

PS: If you want to make the argument that other games limit content by class, just look at the WoW you mentioned: WoW has always allowed you to create 10 or more characters, with no extra cost, giving you full access to all the content in the game. In LIF, you are going to have to pay for it, which makes it no different than DLC.

1. I wouldn't agree that 400/600 skill cap limitations can be grinded on a x1 in a "short time". Sounds more like experience from a modified LIFYO server than vanilla settings. I would go further to say, that although highly motivated or cheeky players could brutally grind up the trees relatively quickly, it's often done by methods that are absurdly wasteful/inefficient.


2. Alt swapping as you've described has very limited use in combat situations. Judgement Hours and Crafting, that's about it. Instance Battles, Instance Sieges which are where alt swapping would be the most useful and is the end-game pvp content, is not applicable. It also will not be applicable in the proposed arena system.


3. The Skill Cap is absolutely challenging. It also has a lot of historic parallels and is clearly of intelligent design. You can survive on your own, but you likely won't live well. With the rise of agriculture, populations grew and cities formed. The entire purpose of a city was to enable people to specialize into very specific fields, since they no longer had to be a jack of all trades to survive. It's represented in this game. You want those T4 Skills? You'll need support from somewhere.


4. Comparing the available character slots on a subscription based game to a "one time fee" game, is like comparing purchasing a mustang on a credit card to paying lump sum.

I played WoW for close to 8 years, mostly on the same character. Sub fee alone that's roughly $1440 spent on monthly fees, not including initial purchase, which was easily $40 to $60 for each version/expansion. That's roughly $1740 by the time MOP dropped, which doesn't include any expenses on hardware or aesthetic changes or server swaps. Furthermore, you couldn't have different faction characters on the same server for a very long time, and end-game content has always been a two to three month investment as a GROUP, to have access to all the content.

Meanwhile for $140, you can get the MMO, 3 Characters and it's sister game with no sub fee. Hell if you own the sister game, you get one character for FREE. Even without knowing how much a character will cost per ticket, as long as there isn't a sub fee, you will ALWAYS pay less than a sub game in the long run. It's so ridiculously consumer friendly, I'm really curious if they'll be able to make a long-term profit off of premium/aesthetic buys/tickets.


TLDR: If you want to be in a small group and play LIFMMO, just buy the tickets (they really are a good deal), join an alliance, or figure out how to trade for what you need. If you want a bajillion skill points on one character, then play LIFYO.

[iceSemple]

1. I wouldn't agree that 400/600 skill cap limitations can be grinded on a x1 in a "short time". Sounds more like experience from a modified LIFYO server than vanilla settings. I would go further to say, that although highly motivated or cheeky players could brutally grind up the trees relatively quickly, it's often done by methods that are absurdly wasteful/inefficient.


2. Alt swapping as you've described has very limited use in combat situations. Judgement Hours and Crafting, that's about it. Instance Battles, Instance Sieges which are where alt swapping would be the most useful and is the end-game pvp content, is not applicable. It also will not be applicable in the proposed arena system.


3. The Skill Cap is absolutely challenging. It also has a lot of historic parallels and is clearly of intelligent design. You can survive on your own, but you likely won't live well. With the rise of agriculture, populations grew and cities formed. The entire purpose of a city was to enable people to specialize into very specific fields, since they no longer had to be a jack of all trades to survive. It's represented in this game. You want those T4 Skills? You'll need support from somewhere.


4. Comparing the available character slots on a subscription based game to a "one time fee" game, is like comparing purchasing a mustang on a credit card to paying lump sum.

I played WoW for close to 8 years, mostly on the same character. Sub fee alone that's roughly $1440 spent on monthly fees, not including initial purchase, which was easily $40 to $60 for each version/expansion. That's roughly $1740 by the time MOP dropped, which doesn't include any expenses on hardware or aesthetic changes or server swaps. Furthermore, you couldn't have different faction characters on the same server for a very long time, and end-game content has always been a two to three month investment as a GROUP, to have access to all the content.

Meanwhile for $140, you can get the MMO, 3 Characters and it's sister game with no sub fee. Hell if you own the sister game, you get one character for FREE. Even without knowing how much a character will cost per ticket, as long as there isn't a sub fee, you will ALWAYS pay less than a sub game in the long run. It's so ridiculously consumer friendly, I'm really curious if they'll be able to make a long-term profit off of premium/aesthetic buys/tickets.


TLDR: If you want to be in a small group and play LIFMMO, just buy the tickets (they really are a good deal), join an alliance, or figure out how to trade for what you need. If you want a bajillion skill points on one character, then play LIFYO.

1. This experience was from the launch of NA. I know its 2x, but even so it was crazy fast how quickly I watched people get skills up and how quickly my own skills went up. I imagine with enough dedication, there will be people at skill cap within the first week.

2. I don't see it that way. I see potentially a lot of uses for alts as spies, robbers, scouts, and general intelligence gathering. The Arena system is the only thing that alts would not be useful for.

3. No its not. Its a cheap way to locking out content in the name of getting you to spend more money. I much rather it take months to get the T4 skills up through dedication. Asian games are great at this. See Mabinogi where a player can get every skill if you choose to. BUT, it will take you a long time to accomplish as it progressively takes longer and longer the higher level you are. It is also very likely that unless you specialize, you will be bored of it before you master any skill.

People lived though out history just fine on their own. I want you to explain to me why a a master forger is not also a master armor smith, or someone who is a master builder cant figure out how to repair what they made, or that a farmer doesnt know how to tailor, or that someone that raises animals doesnt know how to cook, or how you cant make bows, build a barn, farm, and tailor at the same time. Sure some had it worse than others, but nothing stops them from learning it if they dedicate themselves enough. This game treats everyone like peasants that only know 1 job, which is completely false.

The way I see it, there should not be a skill cap in this game. Instead, a better solution would be to decrease the skill point gain for doing an action the more SP you have. Or the more skills you have on a tier, the less sp gain you get for that tier of skills.

4. Im comparing Content to Content. In WoW, you paid $15 a month so you could experience the content that you wanted. There are F2P games where you can play every class and/or get every skill without spending a dime on it. Mabinogi, Tera you can buy character slots with in game currency, EvE Online which can be free if you play enough, APB, there are plenty of examples of games that you can pay absolutely nothing for and get more out of than this game. You are completely locked out of 85% of this game with this skill cap and must barter that out to someone else (whether its a guild, trading, or buying alts).


TL;DR: If I didnt want to play with other people I would play LIFYO. But I do want to play with others. I want to always be in danger of losing everything. However, I just don't want to be forced into someone else's play style by locking me out of most of the game and telling me to go get it from someone else.

[Matheryn]

sorry if this post was dead but I never got a chance to get my 2 cents in

ive lulled over this concept a lot in my head over the last few days and how I see it is that 400 skill points is perfectly reasonable

why

it forces people to specialise and trade - it does not mean you have to go off and join a large group you are still perfectly fine doing things either solo or in a small group, yes it means you may need to make an alt or two but what you can do is specialise in one craft and master it then trade your high end resources for other resources you cannot get yourself.

Getting more skills as a purchase poses one problem that no one has mentioned yet - it doesn't just affect crafting but combat aswell and getting more skills means you could become versed in every combat style which as someone pointed out if you can craft everything and fight every style then why play an mmo to begin with?

personally id like it if they separated crafting and combat skill points all together so that you could become a crafter with no combat skills or a combatant that doesn't have any crafting skills. thus giving you a reason to still have alts one crafter and one fighter.

now the point I made above means that you would obviously be able to put points in more than one skill like which is all well and good for crafting as you would then be able to master 2 professions but for the fighting line it does unbalance things a little

so more thought would need to be put into all this if any changes were to happen and besides tbh id really love them to accually put more skills into the game like ultima online had so that it adds even more diversity to the game

[Ricardoferreira1991]

Okay, wow.

1. "Who wants to play a game where you're just a small cog in a giant wheel (unless you're in the top 5% who rule everything)?"
Somebody didn't read the game title or doesn't know what feudalism was.

2. I don't agree with the idea of merging your crafting skill points with your combat skill points to get a total of 800 skill points instead of the 400/400/400 there is now. If you are going to have a main character that is a warrior and an alt who is a crafter with 800 skill points, what is the difference with having 400 crafting points in your warrior and 400 crafting points in your alt? Not to mention it would ruin the combat tree, I mean, with 400, you can already master 2 different combat professions as it is, and I think that's more than enough.

3. "I want you to explain to me why a master forger is not also a master armor smith, or someone who is a master builder cant figure out how to repair what they made..."
Ok, first of all, You CAN be a master forger and a master armor smith with 400 skill cap. Or be a master builder & building maintain. Hell, you can go with 60 artisan, 80 construction, 100 masonry, 100 architecture and 60 building maintain. And that's without considering the bonus to the skill cap you can get by adding intellect.
But to answer your question, you COULD do most of the things you say, but you wouldn't BE a master in any of those professions. I guess you could go for farming 30, tailoring 30, masonry 30, etc., like in real life people did back in the day, until they started to gather up and specialize and that's how civilization improved, the quality of life improved.
Go watch a documentary about the Japanese sword smiths. They get the rough steel from a company that spends 3 days melting it from dust iron. They need 1 or 2 apprentices to help him shape the metal. They don't even polish the katana they forge, there is a specialist just to fully sharpen and polish the blade. Being a master means having a lot of experience at something, meaning you can't go around and do 1000 different things and expect to be as good as the person that only specializes on one thing, except on those LiF:YO servers with 3000 skill cap.

[Simonred]

Yeah I hope they never add a + skill cap payment, whats the point to play with people when we run around with 3000 skill

[Nitro3300]

While I wish trees could branch on other directions -looking at mining and smelting..- construction and carpentry and Bowery....- trees don't translate well interms of efficient skilling by any means but they have been designed to encourage group game play.

If you don't want to play with others either make a kingdom of alts or go play life is feudal yo because that's really what YO is for, the unsocial that don't want to be killed and don't need to have reliable groups.