Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Jabodl]

This is a common issue for all games like this where the largest mob rules the land. I think the alignment system is good but should also affect their entire guild to some degree. For example if someone in that guild goes on a murder spree it reflects on the entire guild not just the individual.

I think a lot of people will have at least 2 characters and not just because of crafting skill limits. Alternate character would be their evil twin and be use to commit criminal acts then safely repent behind the walls of their good characters. I wish there was a way of at least flagging these as criminal safe havens and maybe increase a chance of natural disaster to cause harm to their crops and herds of animals. Unless of course they openly admit to being a criminal guild of bandits.

Not sure there is a perfect system as it just depends on individual expectations of the game.

[Baal]

For alignement a system with church can be a solution, but there is already schools in the game to lvl skill, so why not apply alignement education in school to raise a little more your alignement each days ? like a re-education school for vilains teached by a real lord of light character.

[Uno]

The real question you should ask is why should a 700 people entity attack a 60 people one?

The real question you should ask is why shouldn´t a 700 people entity attack a 60 people one?

An intelligent person would understand that this is in fact the same question.

Once you have given one or more answers to this question you should work on eliminate each and every option.

Should tell us what? It is a common situation in MMOs that stronger players beat up weak players just out of boredom.

First of all, we were talking of group of players here.
Second, this statement of yours shows you have no experience in MMOs that involve (not scripted) diplomacy.

This game is not a free for all arena, as you have been told there are RPG and strategy elements, in particular diplomacy.

Actually this game IS a free for all arena. There a NO RPG and strategy elements given by the game, only theoretical made up the community, only after the start of OBT we will see if that takes effect or not.

Apart from the fact that there ARE RP and strategy elements in this game, but I'm not here for a lecture...
I have played more than one game like this, with "free" diplomacy and yes, it takes effect and it is one of the most important and strategic elements of a game like this, because it is inherent to human nature and it is caused by the persistence of the scenario, as opposed to a free for all arena, something that even the greenest of online players should know. Given your evident inexperience on the matter, maybe you should have exposed your points in a less arrogant way.

The leader(s) of an alliance of 700 players in a MMORPG based on persistent world have a lot of work to do and certainly they will not die of boredom to the point that they'll have to organize a meeting to convince 700 players to drop their business (because yes, this game has more to do besides war, actually you can't even wage wars without taking care of the economic aspect behind it) in order to go raid a miserable 60 players camp which would be
a) boring in terms of PvP
b) worthless in terms of spoils (for an alliance of 700)
c) a diplomatic suicide

Maybe you should come back when you have a little experience leading a large group of players.

Diplomacy in particular is actually handled in two ways, community wise with BIG alliances spread aimlessly over the whole map, without borders or strategy elements because of the upcoming wipe. And diplomancy given by the game. Or in other words the War mechanic. If dev are able to make battles with 500 players playable (not even close to this goal) there whole made up alliances are wothless if your enemy crushes you with 400 vs 100 players. It doesent matter if a made up alliance has a army of 10.000 Men and your enemy only 500 Men, if your enemy wins every 250 vs 250 battle anyway.
Your big alliance is worthless if your 60 people claim gets surrounded and the strongest part of alliance is half an hour horse ride away.

You are telling me that this game risks to be boring and a fail in diplomacy because if a large group of players attacks a small group, most of the guild will be far from the battlefield? Wow, this must be one of the most ridiculous claims I have ever read on the internet (and there is plenty of crap to read). As if organization and planning were unheard of.
About the technical limits of the game, which we can only hope are temporary since they are not design limits, there will be room to find a solution, either from the devs or from the creativity of players (don't worry, I'm not thinking of yours).

If there will be a claim with 700 people in OBT, prepare your ass to get beaten just out of boredom. 250 active and bored pvp players need to made happy just by giving them someone to slay.

I do not know what will be the limit in size of guilds because Bobik decided to cut out the original testers of YO and pick random people or newbies like the OP to be in closed beta (AKA the "endless wave"). But I believe the OP was talking of alliances forming groups of 700 players, not of a single claim.
Anyways... the difference between CBT and OBT is the same between a MMORPG like Life is Feudal and an Arena PvP game: persistance. Because there is almost no consequences in CBT, diplomacy plays a very small role and people tend to do anything that comes to their minds, first in order to test out everything, and second as you said, out of boredom.

[Gruber]

First of all, we were talking of group of players here.
Second, this statement of yours shows you have no experience in MMOs that involve (not scripted) diplomacy.

Thats because?
There are enough PvP only players who are waiting for OBT, and they will be as much interested in pve stuff and diplomancy as they are in YO. Just loging in for some fun and leave the "work" for the pve players. Those players do not care whom they fight as long as they can fight. You can not force your diplomancy dreams on all sort of players.

Apart from the fact that there ARE RP and strategy elements in this game, but I'm not here for a lecture...
I have played more than one game like this, with "free" diplomacy and yes, it takes effect and it is one of the most important and strategic elements of a game like this, because it is inherent to human nature and it is caused by the persistence of the scenario, as opposed to a free for all arena, something that even the greenest of online players should know. Given your evident inexperience on the matter, maybe you should have exposed your points in a less arrogant way.

Again someone who compares EVE to LiF...

The leader(s) of an alliance of 700 players in a MMORPG based on persistent world have a lot of work to do and certainly they will not die of boredom

You should try learning to read.... would make things a lot easier.
Never talked about leaders... As a leader you will have to prevent boredom of your pvp players, as long as they want to keep their army. Not everyone is like you, enough players play LiF only for pvp and are easily bored by the pve stuff. To entertain these players, a leader has to set up a war, just for fun.

Maybe you should come back when you have a little experience leading a large group of players.

Already did. But you do not need to lead a large group to understand that entertaining many different players is difficult and it is not done by a closed diplomancy only mind.

You are telling me that this game risks to be boring and a fail in diplomacy because if a large group of players attacks a small group, most of the guild will be far from the battlefield?

This might surprise your virgin mind, but not everyone is loyal as fuck. At the actual development, there are two very strong alliances, who are spreaded aimlessly around the map. There will be leaders who are not going to defend a smal claim in the middle of nowhere, especialy if they got trouble at their own front door.
And at this point of development, there is not even a proove that 200 players fit on a battlefield without heavy lag. So your big alliance is not realy usefull in a war.

Anyways... the difference between CBT and OBT is the same between a MMORPG like Life is Feudal and an Arena PvP game: persistance. Because there is almost no consequences in CBT, diplomacy plays a very small role and people tend to do anything that comes to their minds, first in order to test out everything, and second as you said, out of boredom.

CBT is full of LiF enthusiasts and even those got bored. Many big guild complain about the lack of pvp, because of performance problems. With OBT you will face with a lot of fun players. PvE, RP and those PvP players who just show up on YO Server at JH times. Fun players do not care that much about consequences as you might do. If the game system do not suit their gamestyle, they just leave. If to many players leave, the game changes to suit more players or dies.
Just look up how much long lasting MMOs changed over the time, putting the original game design into its grave.

[Chettone]

The game will never be able to handle 100+ player battles (without being a lagfest). This topic is kind of pointless.

Small clans or big clans will have to deal with the player cap devs find to be the most stable number for ther servers.

[Asimov]

700+!!!!
I have heard numbers like this. I have even heard them higher.
But what i have not SEEN so far is any guild/alliance even getting close to 300 active players, and i have been part of 1 of the biggest alliances.
I would say if you have 60 active players, you are are not a semi small guild. You are a semi large guild.
What you need to know, is that the LIF community can be a dick size contest from time to time

[TalisStormbringer]

So Chettone, this game is still in its alpha stage we are just looking at pre-release/beta later this year. As with any game optimization will be done and the game will run smoother and better. Please don’t be near sighted and only look at what is going on right now.

For those of you who don’t think that there is not a guild + alliances that are running 100+ then you are not paying attention. But this is not what I asked in the topic.

The topic is how do you make this fun for everyone.

The 10-person guild, the nomad tribe in horse drawn carts compared to a guild with alliances that equal over, 200 players.

If you are naïve enough to think that people wont attack smaller tribes just to create chaos you are not seeing this game for what it is, and you are not seeing what people are like.

So again, Dev’s this question is for you, do some research and you will see what I am saying is true. How do you intend this game not to be ruined by the powerful guilds, if a team of 5 wants to play this game how is it possible, even if they recruit another 10 players when there are guilds and players that like to kill just because they are bored?

We watch in the last wave where a guild would go down the list and declare war on every tribe so come judgment day they could just roam and senselessly kill and tear down towns, this is the reality of the game so what are you going to do?

Restrict a guild to be able to only declare war only on 1 tribe at a time?

How do you propose to stop a super alliances from dominating the server?

What please is your solution?

[Gruber]

So again, Dev’s this question is for you, do some research and you will see what I am saying is true. How do you intend this game not to be ruined by the powerful guilds, if a team of 5 wants to play this game how is it possible, even if they recruit another 10 players when there are guilds and players that like to kill just because they are bored?

Questions like this, were answered with "life is feudal". Devs always told that is is possible to settle down with a hand full of people, but the game is not designed for that.

A player driven world can´t be fun for everyone.

How do you propose to stop a super alliances from dominating the server?

They don´t. theoretical it is possible to dominate the whole server, but this will take very long to archive and you will make a lot of enemys meanwhile. If a alliance is able to controle the whole server one day, they totaly deserve it.
To prevent this, they would take away to much freedom from the players and this is completly against the game design.

Face it, from day one to now, players can lose everything. This is one of the main features and will probably never change.

[Azzerhoden]

How do you propose to stop a super alliances from dominating the server?

They don´t. theoretical it is possible to dominate the whole server, but this will take very long to archive and you will make a lot of enemys meanwhile. If a alliance is able to controle the whole server one day, they totaly deserve it.
To prevent this, they would take away to much freedom from the players and this is completly against the game design.

Face it, from day one to now, players can lose everything. This is one of the main features and will probably never change.

Not to mention the logistics of such an endeavor. There is no fast movement in this game. Even horses will require constantly stopping and refreshing stamina (which still needs to be changed). So if you want to wage a war against someone half way across the map, you better be prepared for a long drawn out affair. And the larger alliances will have a hard number mustering numbers for continuous war.

[JohnValentine]

There's no game that is fun for everyone. Each has a specific audience.

Life is Feudal MMO caters to a special crowd of player (to be successful). There is a depth to this game that is extremely understated. However, with all the tools the developers have provided, you have to provide the vision. And by the sounds of it, that's actually what's needed.

Use your imagination and groom your problem solving process until you can reach your ambitions. Frown on all this "meta knowledge" that is not supported by hard science, all these things that "everyone knows", and forge your own path.

You have a lot of options. Including easy answers. But.. beware of easy answers. It'll solve todays problem and create a lot more later on.

Good luck, OP ^.^

[Deathreaper63867]

So this question is very simple.

How do you make this fun for everyone.

From what i am seeing, there are guild/alliances of 700+ easily people.

I run a guild of 60 .. how do we fit in to this scenario, how does anyone who wants to buy this game fit in to join or enjoy a smaller guild and society?

As it stands when there are guilds that are 271 showing up for a battle?????? this tells you that even if your a 100 person tribe and you can have 50% show up you are DOOOOOOMMMMEEEED!!!!!!

So why play the game.

And if you don't take this seriously you will have 60 less people playing but everyone that is a smaller guild is reading this as well.

HOW CAN A SEMI SMALL GUILD SURVIVE WHEN THERE ARE ALREADY ALLIANCES OF 700+ PEOPLE. WHEN THE BETA IS RELEASED YOU WILL HAVE A FEW ALLIANCES OWNING YOUR 10000+ person server, how is this a fun game except to the few ... not to the many?

Sorry I chuckled at this a little. I come from Darkfall (Original/Unholy Wars/ Rise of Agon). Which is the only game even close to comparable in the form of PvP Siege/Alliance/Diplomacy Aspect. A giant ALWAYS rises. But one of two things Always happens in an ever changing Political map.

#1 Subterfuge. Can't beat them? Join them.. Steal from them...Spy on them.. No matter how big they are never everywhere. (*Cough Play the game)

#2 Server War.. These are immense amounts of fun sparked by the serving spotting the fact that this alliance is simply just becoming to big. The server always wins. Alliance breaks and enemies are created.

#3 Self Cannibilization. These Large groups come with Large amounts of Drama. Over the internet it is never too long before some choice words are spewed and they begin fighting there damn selves.

Long story short? Empires will rise and fall.....Life is Feudal. I had a hell of a good time with a group of elite 10 that could easily shred 100. The more there are of them...The more they confuse themselves.

[LiFKarl]

a group of elite 10 that could easily shred 100.

If you think 10 highly skilled players could beat 100 average players you have no knowledge of Life is feudal combat or Instance Battle game mechanics.

[Anvel]

a group of elite 10 that could easily shred 100.

If you think 10 highly skilled players could beat 100 average players you have no knowledge of Life is feudal combat or Instance Battle game mechanics.

Lol. It almost seems he was talking about Darkfall... Because in Darkfall early days that was possible, because player gaps were HUGE in that game.


I was also there for Darkfall launch. The part that he left out is that Hyperion alliniance really played a huge part in ruining Darkfall. Aside from all its other problems

[Deathreaper63867]

a group of elite 10 that could easily shred 100.

If you think 10 highly skilled players could beat 100 average players you have no knowledge of Life is feudal combat or Instance Battle game mechanics.

Lol. It almost seems he was talking about Darkfall... Because in Darkfall early days that was possible, because player gaps were HUGE in that game.


I was also there for Darkfall launch. The part that he left out is that Hyperion alliniance really played a huge part in ruining Darkfall. Aside from all its other problems

I did make the comparison because it is Viable. Point I was trying to make was there is indeed a place for smaller groups. Alliances break themselves.

[Rikkarth]

A good Guild Leadership needs people well versed in diplomacy, and the guild needs to know how to be in the right place and right time. Being a skilled fighter or a wise crafter is but a cog in this massive machine that is Life is Feudal.

If you don't know the ways of diplomacy and politics, then your guild will hardly have a place in this game, just like in real world.

Being in denial about this reallity will not solve your problem.

I also love the irony that all the carebears are finally going to have a reality shock and finally see what the game is and was always all about.

This isn't supposed to be an easy game, and I'm tired of people who keep begging for ways to surive in the game as if the game wasn't already to easy.

I'm happy to know that this is the "de facto" vision for the game and like Bobik said "his decision is final".

So you can all stop crying about.