Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

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Arrakis
 
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Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Arrakis » 07 Feb 2017, 15:53



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Saar
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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Saar » 07 Feb 2017, 15:56

Traduction française disponible sur von Culm
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Kildrith
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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Kildrith » 07 Feb 2017, 16:06

I am against this, and really the only reason why is you lose a lot of the open class system that I personally really like, one of the biggest choices a player can make is what armor type is going with what weapon type, while the micro bonus (to meta) I dislike I can live with.

But this will effectively remove a players ability to create unique armor and weapon combinations.

For instance, in the current build I made a 2 handed blunt user with war-cries, and I actually prefer leather armor on that person to plate, but given how you propose it to be set up I can only get so high in leather now and it would require giving up battle survival.

A solution might be to make all armor a separate category in combat, or even make it akin to minor skills, but you only have 100 points that can go into armor. I know these ideas are not very good, but I don't want to just say these idea is bad but offer up nothing as a solution.

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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Khan- » 07 Feb 2017, 16:32

Disponible en Français sur : Lifeisfeudal-fr.com

From what I read, it doesn't change much things, I agree to try it !

People should stop crying about the simple bow.
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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Glomgan » 07 Feb 2017, 17:09

I voted no, because these new skill trees would take away the freedom of choice when it comes to choosing the build of your character.
I also think it would lessen the learning curve since a new players can clearly see what kind role they training for (though i can see why you'd want that in an mmo). I think a steep learning curve and the freedom of choice are some of the main reasons we bought the game.


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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Revann1 » 07 Feb 2017, 18:06

apologies but these are horrible ideas, please refrain from any inspiration from WOW, this game is not for classes, not for any type of restriction.


WOW is successful because its a fastpaced game where you log in, have some action and log out, you don't give a shit about your character u just have fun fighting with it. in LIF its a sandbox, a simulation, you want to immerse yourself with the character, totally different game. so do not get inspired by anyway by WOW since you wont get the same results, your community is different.

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I like the armor boosts because it gives incentive to use current underpowered armor such as leather and padded, which In real life are worn because people don't have $$ to buy better armor. but here since there is no overpopulation or people don't need to worry about using the money to feed their kids instead of buying good armor, they buy the best armor, which is why the armor boost is reasonable.


But RESTRICTING classes is just horrible, DO NOT make the same mistake SOE did with SWG, look where it got SWG. SOE restricted and made classes to a SANDBOX GAME and subscriptions went down to where its not a game anymore. DONT DO IT!

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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Khan- » 07 Feb 2017, 19:04

Revann1 wrote:apologies but these are horrible ideas, please refrain from any inspiration from WOW, this game is not for classes, not for any type of restriction.



the game has always been designed to have medieval classes and nothing like heavy plate armor with crossbow and cavalry skills...
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Kildrith
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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Kildrith » 07 Feb 2017, 19:13

Khan- wrote:the game has always been designed to have medieval classes and nothing like heavy plate armor with crossbow and cavalry skills...


Its a point buy game that has over arching archetypes, whats the issue with someone going into crossbow and using heavy plate? everyone has the same 400 skill limit.

I would rather see unique combinations then everyone forced to do things a specific way.


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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by GnarlyGnome » 07 Feb 2017, 22:48

I dont like pigeon holes .. or cookie cutter endgame.. i think people should beable to customize their playstyle the way they want .. with this being said i can understand and appreciate specialized skill trees and group tactics/organization.. i dont think you will find this balance through polling however.. to summarize what i would like .. it should be rewarding to specialize but you should beable to come up with an unorthodox setup at times to express unique preferred playstyles or to counter specific groups.. maybe i want to be a plate archer or a light armored polearm.. i would rather have reduced efficiency instead of inability to use outside specialized skill trees.

the more you force specialization the more u force people into large groups .. i think ideally you want to allow small groups *6-8 ppl* to still have a chance in skirmishes.. if u force specializations too much it will require factions to increase in size and reduce number conflicts in general. But you need a degree of specialization to maintain stratagem so some degree of restrictions are definitely needed.


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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Toren » 08 Feb 2017, 03:42

I mean... it could work if the weapons were balanced out better. Having naphtha pots and poisons as tier 1 skill weapons considering they 1 shot people is still pretty silly. And a lot of the weapons in 1st-2nd branches of the trees are better than some of the weapons in the third branches which is pretty silly.

That being said I'm tired of non cav fighters being able to outrun lancers by just having 30 chivalry so hey maybe it'll work.


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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Bh1 » 08 Feb 2017, 07:14

I like the idea of the class division, however, the individual character composition should still be possible, here my suggestion:

The class bonus on armor should come.

But every armor should be learned independently of the classes.


So it is still possible to combine weapons and armor as desired. The warrior with two-hand sword in leather armor does not use a bonus to reload speed, but he can wear his desired armor.

However, the archer, who is wearing the leather armor designed for his class, will be pleased with such a bonus. But it is also possible for him to test other armors, even if he would lose class bonuses.

In any case, I am looking forward to testing the new system
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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Delcan » 08 Feb 2017, 07:45

Men, stop the classes system. The current system wouldn't actually be that bad if you place skills like "shield mastery" and "unit and formation" on tier 0.

Let us decide when what kind of armors/weapons must be used.
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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Camil199197 » 08 Feb 2017, 08:46

The new System is very good, because with that change you can balance the Meta much better and would not have only the same armore types.

At the moment everyone would play with Chainarmor, because it is the best allrounder armor.

With that new change you must choose a meta, but can still combine with other playstyles. You dont need to invest the points in Warrior, Chivalary and the Armors anymore. So you have more points for the specialization.

I want just to know how the bonuses on the armor will be implemented.
- Quility of the Armor?
- Armor pieches?
- More gain with higher tier set?

Important are the secondory feats too.
What will be buffed there?
- By formation the most important thing is the range. At the moment it is way too small.
-The brightness must be lowered by the formation, because it is bad at the night. You cant see out of the circle good.


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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Bestial » 08 Feb 2017, 08:55

yeh i am happy to try it , great idea

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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Saar » 08 Feb 2017, 11:00

I would like to suggest another kind of Skills' tree.

One with no "link" between class choice in order to allow variety in battlefields:
So once you have one Tier 1 at 60, you can choose ANY T2 (armor not included) you want.

Armor tier's are specifics (and alone) as, for me, it's more a bonus (which are not so useless in Nordic/eastern civilizations) than a prerequisite to fight.


It's not a complete rework, it's not totally fill, it's just an idea, open to discussion :)


Suggestion of combat tree


edit: Bobik is against this kind of build
Bobik: I'm against skill trees without a skills branches/chains, because it will create too much of diversity with most of players still sticking to one "popular" or OP build

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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Olivemanchester » 08 Feb 2017, 13:48

Voted yes. Want to try it in the game. So exciting!


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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Sharana » 08 Feb 2017, 16:10

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Bobik:
Will see, we're still discussing everything internally, but most probably yes, we will have them.
and hopefully yes, in next test wave they should be up
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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Azzerhoden » 08 Feb 2017, 17:47

Overall I am fine with testing these changes. 400 skill points seem kinda high though as it will be easy to pick and choose certain skills across more than two lines. Perhaps a way to combat this would be to bump up the effectiveness of weapons in a skill between the ranges of 60 to 90, and more so for 100. This would help separate specialists from genera lists by encouraging a focus in that skill.
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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Dranana » 08 Feb 2017, 21:13

The only good thing about this system is that I can access bows even simple bows the same time I can crossbows. I never liked that I had to do crossbows before I could just do bows. Also I agree with the other people that armor should be left out of weapons since many people have their own ideas about how they want to build their characters when it comes to fighting. I never understood what armor had to do with weapon proficiency, they are two different things. Keep armor out of weapons and make it it's own proficiency so it make it to where people can pair what weapons they actually want with what armor they actually want. Remember this is suppose to be the middle ages and most didn't even have armor because it cost to much money to make.

I am honestly okay with not having any of these linked so if someone just wants to be an archer they can go right into using a bow without wasting time on a sling and so on and so forth. One way to make this an option would be to lower the skill cap and allow people to choose how they would want to play their characters.

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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Links234 » 09 Feb 2017, 13:35

And it's all because no one wants to wear padded and leather armor? I would very much like to wear padded armor, but it is expensive and very lose to other armor types. Forced to wear it by using meta classes (and become a hedgehog of arrows for archers) will not work, though perhaps other players and peck at it.


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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Revann1 » 09 Feb 2017, 18:26

Khan- wrote:
Revann1 wrote:apologies but these are horrible ideas, please refrain from any inspiration from WOW, this game is not for classes, not for any type of restriction.



the game has always been designed to have medieval classes and nothing like heavy plate armor with crossbow and cavalry skills...


what world are you living in, this game has always been designed as a sandbox open world game where you are FREE. you are 1 in a million of the trillion players that play this game.


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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Blackberrygoo » 10 Feb 2017, 13:08

This games such a joke , they can't even get prerequisites and skill trees correct . Such a close minded game that takes away freedom so much in a supposed sandbox . If you want a real pvp and empire building game thay doesn't restrict the way you make your character like some crappy WOW clone then go play MOrtal Online , this game LIF is trash and has been since they released the game prematurely . LIF is dead , please move on folks and stop supporting these rusky crooks .

I Honestly hated the first implementation of the skill tree and this one is going to be even worse, why the fuck would I need to master bows before I use a crossbow ? They are completely different skills . And why the hell were certain armors tied to certain weapons ? It's the complete OPPOSITE of what a true sandbox is about . This game sucks .

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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Olivemanchester » 10 Feb 2017, 13:41

Blackberrygoo wrote:This games such a joke , they can't even get prerequisites and skill trees correct . Such a close minded game that takes away freedom so much in a supposed sandbox . If you want a real pvp and empire building game thay doesn't restrict the way you make your character like some crappy WOW clone then go play MOrtal Online , this game LIF is trash and has been since they released the game prematurely . LIF is dead , please move on folks and stop supporting these rusky crooks .

I Honestly hated the first implementation of the skill tree and this one is going to be even worse, why the fuck would I need to master bows before I use a crossbow ? They are completely different skills . And why the hell were certain armors tied to certain weapons ? It's the complete OPPOSITE of what a true sandbox is about . This game sucks .



Neither me, nor the rest of community will agree with you on this matter. We want to see the progress of the game to become more fun and attract more players.


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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Rothgarr » 10 Feb 2017, 13:50

Olivemanchester wrote:
Blackberrygoo wrote:This games such a joke , they can't even get prerequisites and skill trees correct . Such a close minded game that takes away freedom so much in a supposed sandbox . If you want a real pvp and empire building game thay doesn't restrict the way you make your character like some crappy WOW clone then go play MOrtal Online , this game LIF is trash and has been since they released the game prematurely . LIF is dead , please move on folks and stop supporting these rusky crooks .

I Honestly hated the first implementation of the skill tree and this one is going to be even worse, why the fuck would I need to master bows before I use a crossbow ? They are completely different skills . And why the hell were certain armors tied to certain weapons ? It's the complete OPPOSITE of what a true sandbox is about . This game sucks .



Neither me, nor the rest of community will agree with you on this matter. We want to see the progress of the game to become more fun and attract more players.


+1 @Olivemanchester

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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Azzerhoden » 11 Feb 2017, 01:03

Blackberrygoo wrote: then go play MOrtal Online .


Someone has hurt feelings that MO is a barren wasteland. Probably a dev who still doesnt understand just how much MO sucks.
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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Moggy » 11 Feb 2017, 04:00

Khan- wrote:
Revann1 wrote:apologies but these are horrible ideas, please refrain from any inspiration from WOW, this game is not for classes, not for any type of restriction.



the game has always been designed to have medieval classes and nothing like heavy plate armor with crossbow and cavalry skills...


The game has always been marketed as realistic and the instance you described has more to do with the skill cap then this "Class" system but this class system goes against the whole reason why me and the majority of people bought this game.


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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Bh1 » 11 Feb 2017, 09:17

For my part, I will test the new, class-based skilltree, before I complain about it would destroy the game
You will see if it is also possible to combine different classes
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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Dyu » 11 Feb 2017, 15:56

The idea is sound, but he only reason I do not care for it is because you are now told what armor you have to wear. I like the idea, just keep the armor seperate from the classes.
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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Lord_Sitruc » 18 Feb 2017, 04:44

I want to just throw out my two cents even though its a little late, I love the new skill trees except for a few things. first I will cover the pros.

Like having to unlock war horses with skill points now.
Like the new archery trees.
Like how weapons are mixed in the different trees now so I can be a horseman and use a sword if I want without trying to stretch my skills to awkwardly.
Like the names for the trees.
Like that formations is accessible to all.

Things I don't like:

I don't like the armors being locked into the classes.
I don't like the meta bonuses
I don't like the class called berserk is the only one that can use full plate... feel like that's a little weird.

All and all I can live with the meta bonuses if they are small, but I would be really heart broken if armors are locked into the different lines like you have them. Make armors separate like they currently are and I will be very happy with the changes.

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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Azzerhoden » 18 Feb 2017, 04:59

Every time I see someone say they are forced into a certain armor type, in my ears I hear people worried they won't be able to meta game.

If the armor is balanced then it won't matter.
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