Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

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Bh1
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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Bh1 » 08 Feb 2017, 07:14

I like the idea of the class division, however, the individual character composition should still be possible, here my suggestion:

The class bonus on armor should come.

But every armor should be learned independently of the classes.


So it is still possible to combine weapons and armor as desired. The warrior with two-hand sword in leather armor does not use a bonus to reload speed, but he can wear his desired armor.

However, the archer, who is wearing the leather armor designed for his class, will be pleased with such a bonus. But it is also possible for him to test other armors, even if he would lose class bonuses.

In any case, I am looking forward to testing the new system
Last edited by Bh1 on 08 Feb 2017, 11:31, edited 1 time in total.


Delcan
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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Delcan » 08 Feb 2017, 07:45

Men, stop the classes system. The current system wouldn't actually be that bad if you place skills like "shield mastery" and "unit and formation" on tier 0.

Let us decide when what kind of armors/weapons must be used.
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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Camil199197 » 08 Feb 2017, 08:46

The new System is very good, because with that change you can balance the Meta much better and would not have only the same armore types.

At the moment everyone would play with Chainarmor, because it is the best allrounder armor.

With that new change you must choose a meta, but can still combine with other playstyles. You dont need to invest the points in Warrior, Chivalary and the Armors anymore. So you have more points for the specialization.

I want just to know how the bonuses on the armor will be implemented.
- Quility of the Armor?
- Armor pieches?
- More gain with higher tier set?

Important are the secondory feats too.
What will be buffed there?
- By formation the most important thing is the range. At the moment it is way too small.
-The brightness must be lowered by the formation, because it is bad at the night. You cant see out of the circle good.


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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Bestial » 08 Feb 2017, 08:55

yeh i am happy to try it , great idea

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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Saar » 08 Feb 2017, 11:00

I would like to suggest another kind of Skills' tree.

One with no "link" between class choice in order to allow variety in battlefields:
So once you have one Tier 1 at 60, you can choose ANY T2 (armor not included) you want.

Armor tier's are specifics (and alone) as, for me, it's more a bonus (which are not so useless in Nordic/eastern civilizations) than a prerequisite to fight.


It's not a complete rework, it's not totally fill, it's just an idea, open to discussion :)


Suggestion of combat tree


edit: Bobik is against this kind of build
Bobik: I'm against skill trees without a skills branches/chains, because it will create too much of diversity with most of players still sticking to one "popular" or OP build

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Olivemanchester
 
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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Olivemanchester » 08 Feb 2017, 13:48

Voted yes. Want to try it in the game. So exciting!


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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Sharana » 08 Feb 2017, 16:10

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Bobik:
Will see, we're still discussing everything internally, but most probably yes, we will have them.
and hopefully yes, in next test wave they should be up
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Azzerhoden
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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Azzerhoden » 08 Feb 2017, 17:47

Overall I am fine with testing these changes. 400 skill points seem kinda high though as it will be easy to pick and choose certain skills across more than two lines. Perhaps a way to combat this would be to bump up the effectiveness of weapons in a skill between the ranges of 60 to 90, and more so for 100. This would help separate specialists from genera lists by encouraging a focus in that skill.
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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Dranana » 08 Feb 2017, 21:13

The only good thing about this system is that I can access bows even simple bows the same time I can crossbows. I never liked that I had to do crossbows before I could just do bows. Also I agree with the other people that armor should be left out of weapons since many people have their own ideas about how they want to build their characters when it comes to fighting. I never understood what armor had to do with weapon proficiency, they are two different things. Keep armor out of weapons and make it it's own proficiency so it make it to where people can pair what weapons they actually want with what armor they actually want. Remember this is suppose to be the middle ages and most didn't even have armor because it cost to much money to make.

I am honestly okay with not having any of these linked so if someone just wants to be an archer they can go right into using a bow without wasting time on a sling and so on and so forth. One way to make this an option would be to lower the skill cap and allow people to choose how they would want to play their characters.

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Links234
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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Links234 » 09 Feb 2017, 13:35

And it's all because no one wants to wear padded and leather armor? I would very much like to wear padded armor, but it is expensive and very lose to other armor types. Forced to wear it by using meta classes (and become a hedgehog of arrows for archers) will not work, though perhaps other players and peck at it.


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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Revann1 » 09 Feb 2017, 18:26

Khan- wrote:
Revann1 wrote:apologies but these are horrible ideas, please refrain from any inspiration from WOW, this game is not for classes, not for any type of restriction.



the game has always been designed to have medieval classes and nothing like heavy plate armor with crossbow and cavalry skills...


what world are you living in, this game has always been designed as a sandbox open world game where you are FREE. you are 1 in a million of the trillion players that play this game.


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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Blackberrygoo » 10 Feb 2017, 13:08

This games such a joke , they can't even get prerequisites and skill trees correct . Such a close minded game that takes away freedom so much in a supposed sandbox . If you want a real pvp and empire building game thay doesn't restrict the way you make your character like some crappy WOW clone then go play MOrtal Online , this game LIF is trash and has been since they released the game prematurely . LIF is dead , please move on folks and stop supporting these rusky crooks .

I Honestly hated the first implementation of the skill tree and this one is going to be even worse, why the fuck would I need to master bows before I use a crossbow ? They are completely different skills . And why the hell were certain armors tied to certain weapons ? It's the complete OPPOSITE of what a true sandbox is about . This game sucks .

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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Olivemanchester » 10 Feb 2017, 13:41

Blackberrygoo wrote:This games such a joke , they can't even get prerequisites and skill trees correct . Such a close minded game that takes away freedom so much in a supposed sandbox . If you want a real pvp and empire building game thay doesn't restrict the way you make your character like some crappy WOW clone then go play MOrtal Online , this game LIF is trash and has been since they released the game prematurely . LIF is dead , please move on folks and stop supporting these rusky crooks .

I Honestly hated the first implementation of the skill tree and this one is going to be even worse, why the fuck would I need to master bows before I use a crossbow ? They are completely different skills . And why the hell were certain armors tied to certain weapons ? It's the complete OPPOSITE of what a true sandbox is about . This game sucks .



Neither me, nor the rest of community will agree with you on this matter. We want to see the progress of the game to become more fun and attract more players.


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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Rothgarr » 10 Feb 2017, 13:50

Olivemanchester wrote:
Blackberrygoo wrote:This games such a joke , they can't even get prerequisites and skill trees correct . Such a close minded game that takes away freedom so much in a supposed sandbox . If you want a real pvp and empire building game thay doesn't restrict the way you make your character like some crappy WOW clone then go play MOrtal Online , this game LIF is trash and has been since they released the game prematurely . LIF is dead , please move on folks and stop supporting these rusky crooks .

I Honestly hated the first implementation of the skill tree and this one is going to be even worse, why the fuck would I need to master bows before I use a crossbow ? They are completely different skills . And why the hell were certain armors tied to certain weapons ? It's the complete OPPOSITE of what a true sandbox is about . This game sucks .



Neither me, nor the rest of community will agree with you on this matter. We want to see the progress of the game to become more fun and attract more players.


+1 @Olivemanchester

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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Azzerhoden » 11 Feb 2017, 01:03

Blackberrygoo wrote: then go play MOrtal Online .


Someone has hurt feelings that MO is a barren wasteland. Probably a dev who still doesnt understand just how much MO sucks.
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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Moggy » 11 Feb 2017, 04:00

Khan- wrote:
Revann1 wrote:apologies but these are horrible ideas, please refrain from any inspiration from WOW, this game is not for classes, not for any type of restriction.



the game has always been designed to have medieval classes and nothing like heavy plate armor with crossbow and cavalry skills...


The game has always been marketed as realistic and the instance you described has more to do with the skill cap then this "Class" system but this class system goes against the whole reason why me and the majority of people bought this game.


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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Bh1 » 11 Feb 2017, 09:17

For my part, I will test the new, class-based skilltree, before I complain about it would destroy the game
You will see if it is also possible to combine different classes
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Dyu
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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Dyu » 11 Feb 2017, 15:56

The idea is sound, but he only reason I do not care for it is because you are now told what armor you have to wear. I like the idea, just keep the armor seperate from the classes.
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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Lord_Sitruc » 18 Feb 2017, 04:44

I want to just throw out my two cents even though its a little late, I love the new skill trees except for a few things. first I will cover the pros.

Like having to unlock war horses with skill points now.
Like the new archery trees.
Like how weapons are mixed in the different trees now so I can be a horseman and use a sword if I want without trying to stretch my skills to awkwardly.
Like the names for the trees.
Like that formations is accessible to all.

Things I don't like:

I don't like the armors being locked into the classes.
I don't like the meta bonuses
I don't like the class called berserk is the only one that can use full plate... feel like that's a little weird.

All and all I can live with the meta bonuses if they are small, but I would be really heart broken if armors are locked into the different lines like you have them. Make armors separate like they currently are and I will be very happy with the changes.

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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Azzerhoden » 18 Feb 2017, 04:59

Every time I see someone say they are forced into a certain armor type, in my ears I hear people worried they won't be able to meta game.

If the armor is balanced then it won't matter.
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Lord_Sitruc
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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Lord_Sitruc » 19 Feb 2017, 00:00

Its not that, its more of my own play style, I want to be able to do things that I want.

On top of that some of the choices don't make sense, like why would a horseman wear chain armor when plate is the game? A horseman doesn't have to walk anywhere and would prolli wear the heaviest armor (on top of them being the richest). Or why does a berserk wear plate armor? I would rather wear something lighter so I can close faster and put my big weapons to work. + whats the point of having some of the shouts if I can't catch up to the guy I just shouted at because I am wearing a crap ton of weight?


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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Sharana » 19 Feb 2017, 00:18

Lord_Sitruc wrote:Its not that, its more of my own play style, I want to be able to do things that I want.

On top of that some of the choices don't make sense, like why would a horseman wear chain armor when plate is the game? A horseman doesn't have to walk anywhere and would prolli wear the heaviest armor (on top of them being the richest). Or why does a berserk wear plate armor? I would rather wear something lighter so I can close faster and put my big weapons to work. + whats the point of having some of the shouts if I can't catch up to the guy I just shouted at because I am wearing a crap ton of weight?


Bobik's arguments are that berserkers need plate to compensate the lack of shield with thicker armor. Cavalry with chainmail, because of the mentioned above and they would be too good with plate as when they are dismounted they usually don't have to close the distance, so will just benefit from the thickest armor.
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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Toren » 19 Feb 2017, 06:17

To be honest, the armor thing isn't really as bad as it seems since you gotta remember that it will only cost 90 skill points to get to any tier 2 armor you want since they're all sitting at 30 skill points for each branch. I'm personally more concerned about the fact that some of the weapons in the tier 1 skills are just plain better than the weapons in the later tiers for some of the trees, I.E. the bardiche being in the vanguard branch, while the currently superior claymore is in the prior assaulter branch.

That being said, I assume most weapons are going to get a huge revamp soon to make the game more balanced and diverse across the board. However, it is worth pointing out as Azzerhoden said, 400 skillpoints might be a bit too much for the new trees if the devs really want specialization. I think they're assuming that most people will run equipment maintain, but honestly why would anybody run it since it drops max gear durability, other than for poisons which need a revamp themselves.


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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Lord_Sitruc » 19 Feb 2017, 15:43

I think they are more expecting everyone to grab formations as I think they said that they are increasing the bonus, and the bonus grows for every person that has formations that is in the formation.

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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Azzerhoden » 19 Feb 2017, 18:51

Toren wrote:That being said, I assume most weapons are going to get a huge revamp soon to make the game more balanced and diverse across the board. However, it is worth pointing out as Azzerhoden said, 400 skillpoints might be a bit too much for the new trees if the devs really want specialization. I think they're assuming that most people will run equipment maintain, but honestly why would anybody run it since it drops max gear durability, other than for poisons which need a revamp themselves.


They are indeed reworking all the weapons, and the plan is that some weapons (those that are better) will take regional resources like the heavy and royal armor. I've mixed feelings on that, but will wait to see how things shake out. At the moment we don't know how many different regions there are, whether regional resources effect quality or damage, or a host of other things.

Playing with the skill trees its pretty easy to open up 3 types of armor, and since heavy armor is not all that realistic to wear, you could probably squeeze in 4 types.
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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Azzerhoden » 19 Feb 2017, 18:57

Lord_Sitruc wrote:I think they are more expecting everyone to grab formations as I think they said that they are increasing the bonus, and the bonus grows for every person that has formations that is in the formation.


Exactly. Moving formations out of the spear tree so everyone can use it is a good first step, and bonuses for being in a formation will probably out-weigh any bonus for wearing certain types of armor.

Formations still need to be reworked so that might change. At the moment the area for a formation bonus doesn't rotate with the squad leader. I think the area should also be larger and the squad leader should have some way to specify whether they are in the front, middle, or rear of some of the formation shapes.
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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Toren » 19 Feb 2017, 22:28

I'm pretty doubtful about the regional resources for weapons, especially considering how it made veteran armors pretty much obsolete when combo'd with the new blueprint system. But hey, time will tell. Honestly I'd rather that weapons just have more of a unique purpose and have more specialized utility across the board than have some just be plain better but be locked behind regional resources. Don't need this game to turn into a flat gear game. However, if there are plans to add more weapons in the future, I think what they might be trying to go for is that factions in certain regions will have a mostly uniform load out weapon wise (I'm ready for all those highlanders with claymores), which would be fine, especially if it makes it so that some weapons just aren't flat out better.

I remember reading/hearing somewhere that they were planning on making the formations only require the leader to have it for everyone to get the max bonus, so I was assuming that only about 1/10th of the people would actually run it. But since I can't find where I read that, I guess I was just imagining things.


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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Lord_Sitruc » 19 Feb 2017, 23:38

Another thing that they could do if they have to keep armors in the trees like the are shown in this blueprint. Is to put each tree with two different armors unlock able. so like the berserk tree would allow you to wear plate and leather, lancer tree could be chain and plate. The spear and archer trees could be leather and chain and padded and chain. This would make me happy and allow more customization.

However stating this I still think armors being a separate skill outside the trees will make me the most happy.


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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Girdian » 22 Feb 2017, 08:32

I don't mind pushing people to use certain armors but I do not like having to use a certain armor for a certain weapon tree. For instance, I typically go modified Ranger and have archery with a 1h or 1/2h sword and wear chain. I would wear leather but it doesn't do anything for protection whatsoever and I tend to alternate from distance to close quarters pretty frequently. I can still work around this as long as I don't wish to master chain or 1h swords and focus on archery but it'd be nice to have chain separate so I don't have to level a different tree also. Just my opinion though.
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Re: Feudal Democracy strikes back! (Poll)

Post by Wind_i3lade » 22 Feb 2017, 21:13

I was highly against the normalization at first of classes and fighting styles, but I kind of like the new system. I feel like I can do more with less points, and not be too overpowered at the same time that it is meta breaking.

Toren made some valid points and I agree with him that tier 1 weapons are sometimes wayyyy more superior to tier 2 and 3, beyond that and a few tweaks here and there, I do believe it is a solid all around idea after all.

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