Game-breaking exploit (see all players/animals on map)

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Grimmblut
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Game-breaking exploit (see all players/animals on map)

Post by Grimmblut » 17 Feb 2017, 22:08

Hi,

some guild mates of mine and I have been playing on a pvp server for the last couple of days. A notorious guild from eastern europe is playing there as well. Since it's not this thread's purpose to denounce another guild, I won't tell their name.

Anyway, since it's a pvp server we pretty much started to fight them from day one. That's when we noted something very unusual. No matter from where we came, we almost never managed to catch them off guard. Even more disturbing was the fact that there simply was no hiding from them, e.g. three of them suprised one of our players in the middle of nowhere
and after they've killed him they ride in a straight line towards another player of ours who's hundreds and hundreds of meters away in the deepest woods, hiding behind a major oak. That's when we started to suspect that they use some exploit that removes trees from their line of sight. I was pretty sure that this is the case when I saw
one of them riding towards me, over open field, and I moved behind a single apple tree on said field. Since you can see through the branches of an apple tree, I was able to witness how that guy rode towards me in a straight line - and hit the tree, which made his horse reel, forcing him to a full stop. He obviously hadn't been aware the tree existed.

Now we started digging the web and game files to find out how they do that.

Turns out that it's very easy.

1) Open this file: "\Steam\steamapps\common\Life is Feudal Your Own\data\prefs.cs"
2) Look for these two variables
$pref::Video::DistanceConvexRender = "500";
$pref::Video::DistanceForestRender = "5000";
and set their value to "10".
3) (optional) For increased viewing distance of animals and players, set
$pref::TS::renderingDistanceSmall = "50";
to something above "1000".

The result is this...

URL: https://img3.picload.org/image/rowciapi/20170217214710_1.jpg
Image

...although it's supposed to look like this...

URL: https://img3.picload.org/image/rowciapw/20170217214904_1.jpg
Image

Both pictures are taken from the same spot and the same angle.

Now, I understand that there has to be a certain wiggle room regarding the settings to enable players with crappy PCs to play the game without penalizing players that own uber rigs and who want to see the details of that oak leaf 200 meters over there. But what were talking about here is an exploit. A game-breaking one no less.

I kindly ask the developers to fix this issue. Two solutions come to my mind how that can be achieved easily:

1) Enforce hard minimum values for DistanceConvexRender and DistanceForestRender that render that exploit unusable
or my preferred solution
2) Make sure that the value of renderingDistanceSmall may never be bigger than the value of DistanceForestRender


Camil199197
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Re: Game-breaking exploit (see all players/animals on map)

Post by Camil199197 » 17 Feb 2017, 22:22

This should be fixed immediately before the LiF MMO starts.
That mechanic is absolutly game breaking.

Because every big guild can controll with that mechanic a very big area.

PLZ FIX IT

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Khan-
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Re: Game-breaking exploit (see all players/animals on map)

Post by Khan- » 17 Feb 2017, 22:25

thanks, I always told them it was possible but I had no proof... very few players use it but it is possible.
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Re: Game-breaking exploit (see all players/animals on map)

Post by Lurm » 17 Feb 2017, 22:26

Just tried it. Really works 0.o


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Re: Game-breaking exploit (see all players/animals on map)

Post by m8gguz » 17 Feb 2017, 22:42

Well I already saw that some time ago on a few private servers and I always wondered how they could have seen me in the deepest forrest farming for herbs.

I tried that too on my own private server...and it works :evil:


This is absolutely gamebreaking for Your own and is even possible for the mmo – the same config is used there, too.


Please try to fix that asap – make a minimal distance render or just do it serverside if this is possible...


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Re: Game-breaking exploit (see all players/animals on map)

Post by Lurm » 17 Feb 2017, 22:47

m8gguz wrote:... or just do it serverside if this is possible...



I wouldn't recommend doing it server-side as you would also take away the ability to increase the looks of the game for players with stronger systems.

Simply hardcoding a minimal render distance is the best option imo.


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Re: Game-breaking exploit (see all players/animals on map)

Post by JoshyA6 » 17 Feb 2017, 22:53

Yeah, nice you pointed that out.

I really had a lot of weird situations which I couldn't explain during LiF: Your Own. Gladly not yet in the MMO, but I expect them to come. People running straight towards me in the deepest woods, finding me in the thickest bushes and sorrounding me in the safest hiding spots.

Once, I got killed north of my base and entered the server a few moments later south of the base with my second char, to try to secure the claim with it. Even though the enemies just cought me off guard in the north and should have been still there - since they just killed me less than half a minute at that point - they started riding straight south to kill my second char. There was a small wood in between both locations and many many meters of distance. Couldn't do a thing to help my mates in the base...really pissed me off.

Pls fix developers. In the wrong hands, this is one of the most powerful weapons to use and break the game (as I already got to know).


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Re: Game-breaking exploit (see all players/animals on map)

Post by m8gguz » 17 Feb 2017, 23:00

Yeah it is not only possible to set the render distance of trees...
It is also possible to set the rendering distance of big / medium and small objects...so if you have a low setting there (1-5) it acts like a kind of wallhack...


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Re: Game-breaking exploit (see all players/animals on map)

Post by Minzi1990 » 18 Feb 2017, 02:04

should be fixed ASAP. No use fighting in a forest if the people use this "feature".


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Re: Game-breaking exploit (see all players/animals on map)

Post by Asimov » 18 Feb 2017, 10:04

Camil199197 wrote:This should be fixed immediately before the LiF MMO starts.
That mechanic is absolutly game breaking.

Because every big guild can controll with that mechanic a very big area.

PLZ FIX IT



Bc of the huge amount of trees in the mmo ?


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Re: Game-breaking exploit (see all players/animals on map)

Post by JoshyA6 » 18 Feb 2017, 11:06

Asimov wrote:
Camil199197 wrote:This should be fixed immediately before the LiF MMO starts.
That mechanic is absolutly game breaking.

Because every big guild can controll with that mechanic a very big area.

PLZ FIX IT



Bc of the huge amount of trees in the mmo ?


Not everyone likes to build on those big, emtpy plains or wants to inhabit those boring snow or sand regions, where nothing is to be found than an alternate ground texture and a small bush every 100 meters. I personally really find the huge woods in the MMO to be insanely beautiful and I love hunting in them. You can also hide in them pretty well and I can imagine some nice ambushes or even small skirmishes inside them, which I personally had a few times. But with that exploit being used, you don't even need those woods anymore. They have no use, rather than a being source of wood. Devs can just erase all trees and make MMO map one huge groundtextured plain, since woods become useless with that exploit.


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Re: Game-breaking exploit (see all players/animals on map)

Post by Asimov » 18 Feb 2017, 12:09

Dont get me wrong, i agree that the bug should be fixed.
I am just saying the argument about it is a huge problem in the mmo i would say is not true, since most people live in flatten areas with very few trees. I would love more trees, but dev has decided different


Minzi1990
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Re: Game-breaking exploit (see all players/animals on map)

Post by Minzi1990 » 18 Feb 2017, 12:34

Asimov wrote:Dont get me wrong, i agree that the bug should be fixed.
I am just saying the argument about it is a huge problem in the mmo i would say is not true, since most people live in flatten areas with very few trees. I would love more trees, but dev has decided different


It is a huge problem in the MMO!

Our guild is fighting another guild and there is a huge forest between us. We fight and if there are to many enemies we flee into the forest. With that exploit they can chase us with no problems. So i think it is a huge gamebreaking problem for some guilds.

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Re: Game-breaking exploit (see all players/animals on map)

Post by Grimmblut » 18 Feb 2017, 12:55

Asimov wrote:I am just saying the argument about it is a huge problem in the mmo i would say is not true, since most people live in flatten areas with very few trees.


Even if battles are not fought in forests, they are still used and needed to sneak up to an enemy or to retreat into when things go wrong.

Another argument is that the initial map won't stay the same for long. One of the first things people will do is planting trees to ensure a steady supply with wood. One row of trees is enough to block your own view and give the exploiter the advantage.

Last but not least, as already has been pointed out, you can set the range at which buildings and walls are rendered to a smaller value than the range at which animals and players are rendered. That would give you a perfect x-ray view into an enemy settlement. You got to admit that this is game-breaking as well altough it has nothing to do with trees.


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Re: Game-breaking exploit (see all players/animals on map)

Post by Bafflegor » 18 Feb 2017, 13:11

Not sure if showing people how to do this was the best way to report it just saying.

But there are other ways to tell if people are around like "radar" which bobik has already talked about fixing.


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Re: Game-breaking exploit (see all players/animals on map)

Post by Lurm » 18 Feb 2017, 14:31

Bafflegor wrote:But there are other ways to tell if people are around like "radar" which bobik has already talked about fixing.


Sure this is not the only exploit to locate people but it is one of the easiest to fix. It does not only affect PvP but also simplifies animal tracking to an ridiculous extent.

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Taming those horses was never this easy :)

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Re: Game-breaking exploit (see all players/animals on map)

Post by Azzerhoden » 18 Feb 2017, 15:05

I don't know if I would call it game breaking, but it certainly is cheating and needs to be dealt with.
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Re: Game-breaking exploit (see all players/animals on map)

Post by Schockschmock » 18 Feb 2017, 22:27

I've been playing LIF for over 2300 hours with a heavy focus on pvp. Trust me, if this exploit isn't fixed ASAP, then this game is dead in the water.

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Re: Game-breaking exploit (see all players/animals on map)

Post by BlackjackBarret » 18 Feb 2017, 23:41

Hello there, I want to comment on this from a different perspective. For myself personally I have low fps, it's my graphics card I should get it replaced at some point and haven't gotten to it. I originally got around 10 fps constantly, and lower in heavily wooded areas. I manually adjusted my render distance on many things below their limits in order to improve my fps, now i get anywhere from 15 to 24. I cannot see trees and it has caused much difficulty for me and it doesn't improve combat much. It makes the world barren and feel like a flat surface and takes away from the feel of realism the game gives. Whenever i use a horse I'm constantly falling off of it. I personally use a heavier build for combat so even if I can see through trees unless I'm on a horse (which i will fall off of) I won't catch someone who pops flee. This is not a "Game-breaking exploit" for me it's a way for me to play the game smoother with my crappy graphics card. I'm sorry if you had trouble with a group exploiting this. I wish I could turn my trees on, I miss my trees as I used to be a forester. I had to abandon that practice long ago when I decided to take a more active role in pvp and needed the additional fps. As a side comment this "exploit" does not help with major combat such as sieges since most guilds clean cut the area around them and set up 1 or 2 tree farms.

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Re: Game-breaking exploit (see all players/animals on map)

Post by Azzerhoden » 18 Feb 2017, 23:42

Schockschmock wrote:I've been playing LIF for over 2300 hours with a heavy focus on pvp. Trust me, if this exploit isn't fixed ASAP, then this game is dead in the water.


Trust me - I've been playing this game for over 2300 hours plus a few hundred in the actual MMO. This isn't game breaking. There have been several actual combat mechanics that have been game breaking, and they were dealt with.
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Re: Game-breaking exploit (see all players/animals on map)

Post by m8gguz » 19 Feb 2017, 00:09

Sure it is...lets assume the mmo open beta is starting:

Everybody is logging in and is trying to run to their preferred area. With this kind of bug/exploit you easily could avoid all of the wolves, bears and maraudering enemies. You are even able to see all the beginning settlements if your setting the render distance for objects to over 100000. Other people are not able to hide in the woods anymore – so why not deleting all the forest and spawn logs on the ground :lol:

At the same time you could tame/kill any kind of animals without any time consuming effort other people have. You are able to skill taming really fast and so your even faster in taming horses – and we all know how early kav is on open field.


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Re: Game-breaking exploit (see all players/animals on map)

Post by Minzi1990 » 19 Feb 2017, 06:01

Hiding behind a tree and planing an ambush in the night is in my opinion one of the best pvp things in lif.
But if you dont have any trees or something to hide you cant do anything like an ambush.
I dont know but that exploit leads to losing my interest in pvp.

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Re: Game-breaking exploit (see all players/animals on map)

Post by Grimmblut » 19 Feb 2017, 06:17

@BlackjackBarret

As I've written in the starting post, one way to fix this issue is to ensure that player models are not rendered at a distance that is further away than the distance at which trees are rendered. That would ensure that players with low performance computers can still play the game.

Azzerhoden wrote:This isn't game breaking.


Your signature says you're an RP player. Now, while I think that roleplaying is an interesting part of LIF, I have never - never ever - met a roleplayer in LIF that was, in regard to pvp, fit to hold a candle to someone that I consider a serious pvp player. Several pvp players that I know have posted in this thread and expressed their overwhelming concern. You're the only one here who thinks that it's not game-breaking.

This exploit is nothing else but a wall hack. I've never heard of a competitive online game were a wall hack wasn't considered to be a major problem.

A group tries to bait an opposing group to attack them so that a group of cavalry men can ambush them. It doesn't work, because the opposing group can see the cavalry hiding in the forest.

Five players try to sneak through a forest with their trader carts. They have absolutely no chance, because one single guy with this exploit can watch over dozens of square kilometers of forest and inform his raiding party.

Two groups battle each other and eventually one group tries to reatreat into the forest. There is zero chance of survival for any of them in that deep dark forest, because their pursuers are not hindered by the trees.

Two groups assemble to battle each other, but the battle is already won for one side, because their commander can see from where how many enemy troops come and how they are equipped.

A single scout is all it takes to get the exact number of enemy players that are currently in a settlement, no matter if they are behind walls or within buildings. Based on that information, the enemy group decides whether to attack or not, and if they attack, then they know where the enemy lookout is positioned and in which direction he's looking.

I apologize if you feel offended, but it's a long time since I've read such A-quality nonsense - which of course lacks any objective argument - and that you try to pass as a serious opinion.


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Re: Game-breaking exploit (see all players/animals on map)

Post by Exgauster83 » 19 Feb 2017, 06:46

very alarming courageous silence of the developers of the game regarding this hack


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Re: Game-breaking exploit (see all players/animals on map)

Post by Sharana » 19 Feb 2017, 10:55

Exgauster83 wrote:very alarming courageous silence of the developers of the game regarding this hack

Yes, very....
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Re: Game-breaking exploit (see all players/animals on map)

Post by Grimmblut » 19 Feb 2017, 16:43

Bobik to exploiters: http://i.imgur.com/SCO9KX0.mp4

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Re: Game-breaking exploit (see all players/animals on map)

Post by Azzerhoden » 19 Feb 2017, 18:19

Grimmblut wrote:
Azzerhoden wrote:This isn't game breaking.


Your signature says you're an RP player. Now, while I think that roleplaying is an interesting part of LIF, I have never - never ever - met a roleplayer in LIF that was, in regard to pvp, fit to hold a candle to someone that I consider a serious pvp player.

Then you don't get out much.

That's not to say that I rank with the best, because I don't. It does say a lot about your preconceptions as to what RP is. But since its not my job to provide you with an education <shrug>.

I do find it incredibly funny that people choose to argue with me as to the definition of "Game-breaking" versus "Cheating". I didn't say that you were wrong for calling it game breaking, I said I didn't consider it game breaking.

In fact, here is my actual statement
I don't know if I would call it game breaking, but it certainly is cheating and needs to be dealt with.
I find it incredibly dishonest of you to change my statement in such a way that I go from offering an opinion to challenging everyone's statement. It casts your credibility on any subject into doubt.
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Grimmblut
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Re: Game-breaking exploit (see all players/animals on map)

Post by Grimmblut » 19 Feb 2017, 19:25

First off, I didn't change your statement in any way. I quoted one of the three sentences you wrote. I quoted it from start to finish without adding or changing a single character.

At no point did I claim that you do not consider it cheating. But you definitely said that you don't consider it to be game-breaking. That's what I've criticised.

I didn't say that you were wrong for calling it game breaking, I said I didn't consider it game breaking.


Really? Now, I've seen a good share of hair-splitting in internet discussion, but this is ridiculous. I said that it's game-breaking. You replied to that statement and said that it's not game-breaking. And now you're trying to tell me that this wasn't meant to say that I'm wrong? Really?

You fail - again - to provide any objective argument regarding the subject of this thread. Instead, you immediately switch to an argumentum ad hominem attack. I've reported a game-breaking exploit that the devs assess to be so severe, that they say they will try to fix it within the next few days. All that you've contributed is to throw some querulous sentences into this thread and to attack me when I call you out on doing so.

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Re: Game-breaking exploit (see all players/animals on map)

Post by Azzerhoden » 19 Feb 2017, 20:31

Grimmblut wrote:You fail - again - to provide any objective argument regarding the subject of this thread. Instead, you immediately switch to an argumentum ad hominem attack. I've reported a game-breaking exploit that the devs assess to be so severe, that they say they will try to fix it within the next few days. All that you've contributed is to throw some querulous sentences into this thread and to attack me when I call you out on doing so.


Opinions do not need to be backed up with supporting arguments, but to satisfy your emotional need to lash out after losing a fight, here you go.

Its not game breaking because it doesn't effect PvP mechanics, nor does it effect battles, sieges, or damage to a guild claim. It is not a dup exploit; it is not an 'insta kill' of a player; it does not cause database corruption; it is not giving people access to items they shouldn't get to with normal game mechanics; it does not grant any type of 'speed' bonus.

It is cheating and a serious issue for all of the reasons you previous pointed out. It does need to be given a high priority before the next patch. There is/was also a 'radar' hack that was created in the last beta phase. It was shown to Bobik and is also being dealt with. That is/was also a 'cheat', but not game breaking.

Also, quoting a short sentence that wasn't directed at you to use as you did is also deceptive, even if in the same thread. Clearly you are still too emotionally scared from getting killed and are taking your loss extremely personal.

Try thinking objectively about the issue, not how it directly effected you, or grant others the right to express an opinion on the matter, even if it differs from yours.
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Re: Game-breaking exploit (see all players/animals on map)

Post by Linbaba » 19 Feb 2017, 21:43

Grimmblut wrote:@BlackjackBarret

As I've written in the starting post, one way to fix this issue is to ensure that player models are not rendered at a distance that is further away than the distance at which trees are rendered. That would ensure that players with low performance computers can still play the game.

Azzerhoden wrote:This isn't game breaking.


Your signature says you're an RP player. Now, while I think that roleplaying is an interesting part of LIF, I have never - never ever - met a roleplayer in LIF that was, in regard to pvp, fit to hold a candle to someone that I consider a serious pvp player. Several pvp players that I know have posted in this thread and expressed their overwhelming concern. You're the only one here who thinks that it's not game-breaking.
(snip)


I've never met a RPer in any game whatsoever who was any good at pvp.

Except one, but I don't want to talk about it !!

Not to say they don't carry their load, you'll often find them more active and participating more than others but in a supportive way.

(anyway, sorry for hijacking)

I'm not sure whether to be relieved or worried that it isn't through hacking "per se" or third party programs that this was done. I would imagine we should see more of that once the game is out of beta.

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