Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Nothing_Personal]

There are only two methods currently recognized as cheating and they are the following:
File Editing/Game Changing

...[...]...

There are a few other minor ones that are considered unfair play and are at individual guild discretion, those include:
-Logging out
-Arrow Trails (Making them last longer)
-Bright Nights (GPU editing)

(This list will be updated if I forgot any guilds that weren't tagged at the time.)

This is practically the same, why having a diffrence made there? Because it's more complicated in the MMO client than it's in YO you can't go much further there. Im not going all into detail , still trail marking is the least of the problems modified gamefiles cause. As far as I could see in the files, especially YO is in trouble because the singleplayer version is made up with a clientside server and so everything needs to be stored in there.
With the insurance of less problems, most textures and animations are still stored within the client. Also modding the majority of non-encrypted files does not trigger a loading problem if the file names still match.
I'm still looking into the meshes and hitboxes for charatcers but it should be possible, at least in YO, to mod character sizes into oblivion, make horses extremly small, arrows extremly big and having the requests on on-hit targeting work around the current system, like implementing securred pike hits on horse riders or hits through shields, godly bow aim even with the wrong weapon stats...
I could go on, let's just say the client for YO is a mess and sadly not everything that should be encrypted is encrypted. I've not been into the MMo files but if they have smilarities this could be a lot worse.
So far the game is still marked as Beta, even tho I think of it more than an Alpha.

One problem is, that the TourgeEngine is open source and working around it seems pretty easy even for beginners.
On the other hand the community is aware of it and we can give the Devs our information, I'm up for it any day but have no idea where to start at because it's simply a shitload - at least for me, someone who did look in the files without a proper organisation.

All I can tell so far is that to this point encrypted files are nearly impossible to be decrypted, as the one program I could find was outdated with the latest TourgeEngine version.

Some directories that are pretty much only affecting cosmetics:

Code: Select all

\gui
\art
\core\art
\data

There are pretty much no files that give an advantage to edit in those directories, just cosmetics.

Regards the \art and \data files, I like cosmetic styled invisible walls to spy on enemies. I also like having small tree stumps or endless arrow trails. That's within those things dude....
Having anything but the GUI modified can be a huge advantage.
Whatever is possible in YO isn't something that should be available in the MMO by default.

Sorry for not attending, we had no spare time or someone to send out. It's nice to have a lot of groups just accept the fact that any kind of abusive gameplay is not what the majority of players signed up for neither expect from their opponents.
We're going to follow those suggestions.
Let's just hope a lot more are joining.

Yes a lot of that stuff is stored client side, but the client isn't the final source of trust for decisions. You could make an entire body read as the head hit box for damage, the server doesn't care what your client says. It checks to make sure the info is correct before updating the database and the objects in the game. What you do to ghost objects displayed on your client is irrelevant to the server, the server keeps tracks of objects not your client. Read up on how the engine works before making claims like you can hack the client to change hit boxes etc.

The simple fact is this is a skill based combat game, there are winners and losers, and just like every other loser in every other game, it's never the losers' fault, someone is cheating/aimbotting/wallhacking/p2w'ing their way to be a winner. It's the only possible explanation.

[Mybrainisanut]

Yes a lot of that stuff is stored client side, but the client isn't the final source of trust for decisions. You could make an entire body read as the head hit box for damage, the server doesn't care what your client says. It checks to make sure the info is correct before updating the database and the objects in the game. What you do to ghost objects displayed on your client is irrelevant to the server, the server keeps tracks of objects not your client. Read up on how the engine works before making claims like you can hack the client to change hit boxes etc.

You may be right about running directly into the meshes and hitboxes itself but the game has proven it's bad in it's current state in those "checks". The fact you can change whole files and it doesn't even matter is enough.
The "tracking" of objects is also not done properly. Having guys using a delayed connection between server and client to avoid damage or for vanishing is also prove enough the server does not "track" down every object as intended and in case of doubt favors client over server information in the short run. That's how games in the 90's worked when the hardware for hosting wasn't good enough for a lot clients to support, it's not up to date!
Not to speak about the lag spikes you had on 30/31 or 25 in the beginning, where practically noone could play as intended and teleporting players around the map were pretty common.
So most of the "hacking" there is done in sending false information to the server. You wouldn't need to crack the files if you know what the server requests in those matters.
And with the lot of still decrypted files, reverse engeneering is at a chance it should not be.

[Azzerhoden]

Thank you for attending Neo, and for the write-up. All of Hyperion strongly supports this effort.

[Campion]

Consider The Iron Coalition in agreeance with and supporting this cause. As a community, we do not tolerate unfair play. If any individuals under our banner are caught doing so, please contact me through my Steam account on my profile or through website messages. Thank you!

[Excel]

I speak on behalf of my clan, IMPERIO ERRANTE and we support this initiative but I recognize that I think very much like you ... it will be a chaos.

(Text translated
I speak on behalf of my clan, ERRANT EMPIRE and we support this initiative but I recognize that I think very much like you ... it will be a chaos.
If any of the people under our flag are caught doing so, please contact me through my Steam Profile account or through messages from websites. Thank you!
(Text translated by goolge, I do not speak english I'm sorry if it is not well understood;)) goolge, I do not speak English I'm sorry if it is not well understood;))

[Nothing_Personal]

Yes a lot of that stuff is stored client side, but the client isn't the final source of trust for decisions. You could make an entire body read as the head hit box for damage, the server doesn't care what your client says. It checks to make sure the info is correct before updating the database and the objects in the game. What you do to ghost objects displayed on your client is irrelevant to the server, the server keeps tracks of objects not your client. Read up on how the engine works before making claims like you can hack the client to change hit boxes etc.

You may be right about running directly into the meshes and hitboxes itself but the game has proven it's bad in it's current state in those "checks". The fact you can change whole files and it doesn't even matter is enough.
The "tracking" of objects is also not done properly. Having guys using a delayed connection between server and client to avoid damage or for vanishing is also prove enough the server does not "track" down every object as intended and in case of doubt favors client over server information in the short run. That's how games in the 90's worked when the hardware for hosting wasn't good enough for a lot clients to support, it's not up to date!
Not to speak about the lag spikes you had on 30/31 or 25 in the beginning, where practically noone could play as intended and teleporting players around the map were pretty common.
So most of the "hacking" there is done in sending false information to the server. You wouldn't need to crack the files if you know what the server requests in those matters.
And with the lot of still decrypted files, reverse engeneering is at a chance it should not be.

Not sure what you mean because none of the files I see on the client are encrypted.

I agree with you on the lag though, not sure what the devs can do about it as it has to do with the amount of player objects in an area, the ghosts represented on all of those clients, and the stream of updates about each and every ghost to each and every client. Seems to be a limitation of the engine more than their coding ability.

I'm still surprised at the choice of engine for the game when Unreal, Unity, etc are surprising cheap for the level of product they are capable of producing. Just take a look at the games made with those two engines and compare them to this- https://www.garagegames.com/best-of-torque/torque-3d

If you were developing a game from scratch today would you use Torque?

[Scratchit]

wow

role players role playing the war against cheaters

[Azzerhoden]

I'm still surprised at the choice of engine for the game when Unreal, Unity, etc are surprising cheap for the level of product they are capable of producing. Just take a look at the games made with those two engines and compare them to this- https://www.garagegames.com/best-of-torque/torque-3d

If you were developing a game from scratch today would you use Torque?

Don't really know about Torque, but LIF has been in development for almost 10 years, and changing to a new engine would cause massive problems at this point.

I'm a big fan of Unity3D, but as of a couple years ago my understanding was that they lacked the ability to support an MMO of this game style.