How is 64-bit going to improve LiF?

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Memphis
 
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How is 64-bit going to improve LiF?

Post by Memphis » 10 Jan 2017, 21:41

In the latest "dev blog" (if you can really call it that) it's mentioned they are working on pushing the code from 32 to 64-bit. So my question is why? I know 64 bit is the new buzzword for gaming, but it's only really needed for large volumetric numbers, and, frankly there is no need for that in LiF. So why 64-bit and not ships or horse carts? You know, the things players have been asking for and you promised years ago.


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Re: How is 64-bit going to improve LiF?

Post by Kildrith » 10 Jan 2017, 21:48

Memphis wrote:In the latest "dev blog" (if you can really call it that) it's mentioned they are working on pushing the code from 32 to 64-bit. So my question is why? I know 64 bit is the new buzzword for gaming, but it's only really needed for large volumetric numbers, and, frankly there is no need for that in LiF. So why 64-bit and not ships or horse carts? You know, the things players have been asking for and you promised years ago.


The changes to terrain that happen in large scale every day, is kind of reason enough to want 64 bit.


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Re: How is 64-bit going to improve LiF?

Post by Beefheart1 » 10 Jan 2017, 21:50

Stability and it might make it possible for LiF:YO servers to increase the maximum amount of people playing on the same server.

No more "AAARGH I CANNOT GET IN FOR JUDGEMENT HOUR"

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Re: How is 64-bit going to improve LiF?

Post by Saar » 10 Jan 2017, 21:53

I'm not informatician so my explanations will be a little quick.
In fact, why 32bits architecture, programs can only take a limited amount on memory (RAM), about 4Go (-1Go for Windows).

In LiF, and in particular with the MMO, a lot of data are stored (terraforming and player position/action/stats) by processor.
With a 64 architecture, the limit is very higher so our pc can manage more data in simultaneous and avoid crashs and stability is more important than a horse, no? :)

No interest to have ships and carts if you can't play
Last edited by Saar on 10 Jan 2017, 21:54, edited 1 time in total.
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Memphis
 
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Re: How is 64-bit going to improve LiF?

Post by Memphis » 10 Jan 2017, 21:54

64-bit doesn't make things load faster or increase server capacity, in fact it may be a bit slower to load because you need to send twice as much data to the client. Now if terraforming allowed me to dig in increments of .0000000001 then 64 bit would help with that but no one wants are is asking for that.

Server capacity and stability is based on the amount and speed of data moving, and 64-bit doubles that amount.

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Saar
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Re: How is 64-bit going to improve LiF?

Post by Saar » 10 Jan 2017, 21:56

The current problem isn't server capacity but client "overload".
A major part of crash are related to "not enought memory" on our pc. not on server as the devs said
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Memphis
 
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Re: How is 64-bit going to improve LiF?

Post by Memphis » 10 Jan 2017, 21:57

Saar wrote:I'm not informatician so my explanations will be a little quick.
In fact, why 32bits architecture, programs can only take a limited amount on memory (RAM), about 4Go (-1Go for Windows).

In LiF, and in particular with the MMO, a lot of data are stored (terraforming and player position/action/stats) by processor.
With a 64 architecture, the limit is very higher so our pc can manage more data in simultaneous and avoid crashs


Ah RAM, that kinda makes sense. Is the MMO really that unstable? Sounds like the first months back at the beginning of LiF Early Access, years ago.


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Re: How is 64-bit going to improve LiF?

Post by Duffman118 » 10 Jan 2017, 22:43

Memphis wrote:
Saar wrote:I'm not informatician so my explanations will be a little quick.
In fact, why 32bits architecture, programs can only take a limited amount on memory (RAM), about 4Go (-1Go for Windows).

In LiF, and in particular with the MMO, a lot of data are stored (terraforming and player position/action/stats) by processor.
With a 64 architecture, the limit is very higher so our pc can manage more data in simultaneous and avoid crashs


Ah RAM, that kinda makes sense. Is the MMO really that unstable? Sounds like the first months back at the beginning of LiF Early Access, years ago.


4GB is the maximum usable memory the 32-bit version can handle... im not currently getting all 32GB of RAM currently installed in my PC but only using 4GB. Couldn't be happier with devs decision to make the switch! TY DEVS!!!!

PS the MMO is amazing! Worth the wait!!! Cant wait for a NA server tho to avoid language barriers/ping issues.


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Re: How is 64-bit going to improve LiF?

Post by Cian » 10 Jan 2017, 23:19

Im going to go ahead and say this since you obviously havn't been following all the design decisions being made.

1. Horse Carts are being worked on currently. They may not be implemented in the near term, but the process has started. They've released videos onit.

2. Ships are a LONG way off. Like end of Wave 2 type of long way off. There will only be one ship available at release and Bobik has not and will not put any thought into it until other things are taken care of first. He has not decided how many ships, what types, or their purposes yet.

You've got no idea what their priorities are and what they are spending their resources on to enact those priorities. If they feel the need to work on 64 bit architecture to make the game more stable then obviously they've decided it has more initial benefit than carts and ponies.
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Re: How is 64-bit going to improve LiF?

Post by Khan- » 10 Jan 2017, 23:27

Duffman118 wrote:Cant wait for a NA server tho to avoid language barriers



that's a pretty cool medieval feature :(
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Re: How is 64-bit going to improve LiF?

Post by Gruber » 11 Jan 2017, 13:36

Memphis wrote:64-bit doesn't make things load faster or increase server capacity, in fact it may be a bit slower to load because you need to send twice as much data to the client. Now if terraforming allowed me to dig in increments of .0000000001 then 64 bit would help with that but no one wants are is asking for that.

Server capacity and stability is based on the amount and speed of data moving, and 64-bit doubles that amount.


The "doubled" data is a minor disadvantage wich is no problem at all for todays PC performance. On the other side is a hugh advantage in data processing abilitys. 64 bit systems can process more data faster than a 32 bit system.


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Re: How is 64-bit going to improve LiF?

Post by Ethantokes » 11 Jan 2017, 18:41

Once the game uses up 4gb of ram, the game crashes. This wont necessarily be stopped by 64 bit, but it sure as hell will prolong it. Especially when you have 16gb of ram. Ontop of that, grass and tree render distance can be farther with less of a hit. More players on screen, less fps lag in general. This will mostly effect users who have good pc's, max settings was basically impossible in the mmo, due to crashing every 10 mins.

Ontop of these things, the SERVER is in 32-bit, that is a serious serious issue. They are running the mmo in debug mode, consuming like 2x the amount of memory and cpu power that the game normally needs. Everyone's actions are being logged and communicated globally, server crashes will be less frequent and will allow for larger amounts of players in one server. I am incredibly impressed that server 25 somehow survived until 360 players at 32-bit in debug mode, expect 1k players per square in wave 2.

The ONLY downside, and its very minor, is possibly longer loading screens, which can be compensated by: turning off debug mode, standard optimization to code involving terrain downloading. I have noticed that the game is saving a local world, then cross references and downloading the live world when you load in. IMO this makes little sense, as we will always need the live world, and may be better off just downloading the live world only. May be hard to do. Also, we CANNOT be spawning in BEFORE terrain changes are downloaded, even WITH a invuln buff. All in all, the game honestly should have started off with 64 bit, but it is hard to do, fact of the matter is the improvement is a NECESSITY because as it currently stands, you cannot even run their game at max settings without crashing(in mmo).

Correct me if im wrong, but I don't believe it can use my 8gb of vram either. Most likely limited to 4gb as well. (I'm no guru)


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Re: How is 64-bit going to improve LiF?

Post by Wookiee420 » 11 Jan 2017, 19:30

Also the 64bit SHOULD cut down on the billboarding, that crazy stupid effect where the trees all of a sudden change shape, or the buildings all of a sudden look different. That alone is a reason, its hard on immersion when you get close to something and it changes.


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Re: How is 64-bit going to improve LiF?

Post by Aikar » 11 Jan 2017, 21:36

Those of you bringing up the argument of the 4gb ram cap as being a limitation are kind of dumb or ignorant on software development.

The main problem as to why the client keep crashing due to oom is not because the game is very demanding, but because it has memory leaks all over: a.k.a bad programing practices or probably a confusing architecture that makes it all the harder to find those leaks.

Raising the cap is not gonna fix that, the game will still leak until your computer runs out of memory just as well. So I really hope the reason behind this move is not for the leaks to fill in more of our RAM and are really working on fixing those (although there have been there since the beggining and still no noticeable improvement).

The point is, the game client should work FINE wit a 4gb ram cap, and if not, code needs improvement.


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Re: How is 64-bit going to improve LiF?

Post by Wookiee420 » 11 Jan 2017, 22:17

Aikar wrote:Those of you bringing up the argument of the 4gb ram cap as being a limitation are kind of dumb or ignorant on software development.

The main problem as to why the client keep crashing due to oom is not because the game is very demanding, but because it has memory leaks all over: a.k.a bad programing practices or probably a confusing architecture that makes it all the harder to find those leaks.

Raising the cap is not gonna fix that, the game will still leak until your computer runs out of memory just as well. So I really hope the reason behind this move is not for the leaks to fill in more of our RAM and are really working on fixing those (although there have been there since the beggining and still no noticeable improvement).

The point is, the game client should work FINE wit a 4gb ram cap, and if not, code needs improvement.


Unless you chose to listen to the actual people making the game that say that the 32 bit client uses 3.5gigs ram...Windows 7 can see a maximum of 3.12 gigs.....I kinda trust the people making the game over you, plus i make video games myself so i trust my experience and stuff.

The game ran flawlessly on my pc, without a single drop of "leaking memory," also its 2017 games should be 64bit anyways.


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Re: How is 64-bit going to improve LiF?

Post by Chairman » 12 Jan 2017, 06:36

Not to mention a 64-bit client will make the game just a smiiiiiidge harder to hack and memory read in. Which is a good side effect i guess.

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Re: How is 64-bit going to improve LiF?

Post by Artoria Pendragon » 13 Jan 2017, 10:26

wow so many professors :3
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Re: How is 64-bit going to improve LiF?

Post by Ggarzelli » 23 Jan 2017, 11:50

My 2 cents.

32 bits has a limit of 3.25GB of RAM to be used, once you reach that you delete the old data and "start a new", hence things slow down (example trees in your sight, objects, ect ect).

64 bits theoretically can use up to 17 billion GB of RAM (ergo limit is the RAM on your machine).

Computation speed are doubled (lag bye bye?)

So theoretically means your program can use up all your RAM ergo better performance and if you only had 3.25 GB of RAM free anyways it should do calculation twice as fast.
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Re: How is 64-bit going to improve LiF?

Post by Blackberrygoo » 24 Jan 2017, 05:31

It won't help nearly enough to matter . This game is doomed due to bad code/architecture and poor half baked mechanics (terraforming ? What is this minecraft ? Why do we need that , all it does is destroy fps and cause crappy eye sores everywhere). Tree farms , morning lag , choppy horse riding , NONE of this will be fixed by a 64 bit client / server . Game is bad , needs a whole scrapping of the project so it can be looked at by more competent team IMO . Or a less money hungry team .


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Re: How is 64-bit going to improve LiF?

Post by Wookiee420 » 24 Jan 2017, 19:45

Blackberrygoo wrote:It won't help nearly enough to matter . This game is doomed due to bad code/architecture and poor half baked mechanics (terraforming ? What is this minecraft ? Why do we need that , all it does is destroy fps and cause crappy eye sores everywhere). Tree farms , morning lag , choppy horse riding , NONE of this will be fixed by a 64 bit client / server . Game is bad , needs a whole scrapping of the project so it can be looked at by more competent team IMO . Or a less money hungry team .

so go away if you have such negativity


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Re: How is 64-bit going to improve LiF?

Post by Solo_Kamen » 31 Jan 2017, 12:02

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6395 ... ing-system

Most 32bit apps can use only 2GB of ram. That is not enough for many games with not-ugly textures today. End of argument.


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Re: How is 64-bit going to improve LiF?

Post by Palladin » 31 Jan 2017, 18:56

Solo_Kamen wrote:
Most 32bit apps can use only 2GB of ram. That is not enough for many games with not-ugly textures today. End of argument.


agreed. 2GB is not enough for client version. and it may solve some issues.

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