LiF currently encourages AFK macro skill increase (aka DF)

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Archaegeo
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LiF currently encourages AFK macro skill increase (aka DF)

Post by Archaegeo » 09 Mar 2014, 14:04

If you played early Darkfall you will remember as a minimum people swimming into walls to get swim skill up, and of course macro'ing repetitive actions to raise other skills and leaving it going over night.

The issues this raised besides skilling up without doing anything, was people never logged off and it made some bad queues too.

Friday Bobik acknowledged that if people want to macro it will happen.

The problems is the game system currently really encourages it.

Right now if I inspect a tree over and over, I keep getting forestry gains and stat increases. I know from experience there will be people that set a macro, go to work, and come home to large skill/stat gains.

Some will say it doesn't matter because in 2-3 weeks of hardcore play you can be at skillcap and at 90 skills.

However, at launch, someone who can get to those caps in 3 days vice 3 weeks will have a huge early advantage in: setting up crafting, building things, finding the best ores, etc, anything where a higher skill matters. Not to mention being a combat monster.

If this is intended ok, I'll start writing and publishing AHK scripts for testers, but it doesn't feel right.

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Bobik
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Re: LiF currently encourages AFK macro skill increase (aka D

Post by Bobik » 09 Mar 2014, 14:24

I believe that there is some misunderstanding here.
1. We do not plan to ban/kick for macroing, BUT

2. We do everything to avoid that macroing and make it senseless.
We were talking with you about ONE of abilities out of almost 170 of others. And that ability from Forestry, you can not even chop trees with Forestry skill.
Let me explain my vision since I know mechanics of a bit more abilities, then you do ;)

- Some abilities are minor and does not create anything - these are inspecting abilities and "Inspect a tree" for instance. You can macro them of course and that will be hard to prevent really, but that will not create much of advantage.

- Some crafting abilities are actually have "macro" functionality in them - autocraft option that will consume all your ingredients to mass produce a certain amount of items. It can be coped with minigames in some crafts, so you can either play minigames as mad and be a bit faster or better, or just stuff your inventory with all ingredients and just lay back while your character will be creating 5000 nails or knives.

- Some abilities are very hard or almost impossible to macro and there is no autocraft either. For instance objects construction, tunneling, terraforming, farming, stable management, smelting and so on.

So you are either do not get much from macroing, or it is already officially implemented or it is simply impossible.

As I've stated before, our game is not about faster skills progression and grinding - it is about a proper USE of those skills aka individual player skill.
BUT if you WANT to grind and WANT to macro to get some minor or mythical advantage over other players - you're free to do that :crazy: You will even get some title and/or vanity effect to show off to others, how hardcore player you are once you hit 100 lvl of some skill.
But for the rest of players our game is designed to get a normal skill progression during normal gameplay without messing with macroing/bot running.


Archaegeo
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Re: LiF currently encourages AFK macro skill increase (aka D

Post by Archaegeo » 09 Mar 2014, 14:30

Thanks for chiming in Bobik

And I hope you realize I am definitely not attacking the game, I wouldn't have donated if I didn't believe in what you are trying to accomplish.

While you tell us those skills are minor, which they might be, they do give stat gain as well, and for min/max hardcore pvp'ers, that will be reason enough to set up a macro when they go to school/work.

I.e. they will love going about gaining skills doing normal things, that's awesome, and then they will say, "rather than logging off, ill just skill up forestry while im gone to work and get some stat improvements."

Ive always loved a system where you gain through use, aka UO and early Pen and Paper RPG's, but the problem with UO and later computer versions is if someone can gain when they couldn't otherwise be playing, they will do so, its the nature of many of the players.

Just 0.02 cents of thought, your's is the other 0.98 <grin>


Raxx
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Re: LiF currently encourages AFK macro skill increase (aka D

Post by Raxx » 09 Mar 2014, 14:32

People that spend more time and effort into the game diserve better reward, it's an MMO after all
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Archaegeo
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Re: LiF currently encourages AFK macro skill increase (aka D

Post by Archaegeo » 09 Mar 2014, 14:34

Raxx,

True, but many will say that they aren't spending time in game for being better, they have a script doing it while they are away.

If you want to be even otherwise, you do like Eve, where you get X points per hour to put where you wish, even while offline.

I do not think, at last from what has been written and said, that it is LiF's intent to promote offline skillgain, which is the same as being online with a macro running while you are out of the house.


Raxx
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Re: LiF currently encourages AFK macro skill increase (aka D

Post by Raxx » 09 Mar 2014, 14:39

people will not care if AFK macroing / skilling will have an advantage as long as the advantage is so small that it can easily be diminished by normal play, or even insignificant.

you can't compare DF1's skill grind because in that game it was neccesary to have certain skills to even consider having a chance at PvP, and that game was mainly about PvP, meaning that you were not viable at all in the game. That's not the case in LiF and it won't even a shadow of a problem like it was in DF.
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Archaegeo
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Re: LiF currently encourages AFK macro skill increase (aka D

Post by Archaegeo » 09 Mar 2014, 14:43

If as Bobik says above "1. We do not plan to ban/kick for macroing,..."

then you will 100% have guilds that set up macro's to fight each other while afk. If it doesn't work within guilds then two guilds will partner up to do it. Saw it in Darkfall, it will happen here too.

The point being, if macro'ing is allowed, and there are gains to be made from doing an action, it will be macro'd to do the action while afk at work or school.

I WISH people would only gain skillups from going out and actively participating in the world, that's the ideal, and with pen and paper rpg's you can control that because the GM hands out all gains.

Here though, if you give people a way to get ahead while not able to play, they will take it.

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Bobik
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Re: LiF currently encourages AFK macro skill increase (aka D

Post by Bobik » 09 Mar 2014, 14:49

For combat skills progression we plan instanced battle arenas. Just random matchmaking, when you and bunch of random players from all the server will be mixed up and divided evenly into two teams of random players to have a battle for fun and for wager.

If someone will prefer macro hitting each other AFK in their city instead of having fun in a battle arena, well, that is going to be their choice. As I've stated before, we will not kick/ban for that.


Archaegeo
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Re: LiF currently encourages AFK macro skill increase (aka D

Post by Archaegeo » 09 Mar 2014, 14:56

Understood Bobik.

And the same guys who will LOVE your instanced battle arenas will also AFK macro combat gains so when they go there they have every advantage they can.

And they don't prefer macro afk fighting to gain skills, they do it in addition to the things they do when the can actively play.

Its a decision you have made and thus how it is, but people need to be aware it will be happening and more importantly for you, that it is not a reportable/bannable offense. Otherwise you will get flooded with petitions/mails about people afk skill gaining.

Also, this will make it so players do not log off, rather staying online when done playing to macro up skills.


Archaegeo
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Re: LiF currently encourages AFK macro skill increase (aka D

Post by Archaegeo » 09 Mar 2014, 14:59

One nice aspect of this?

Find the afk'ers and knock them out and take their stuffs

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