Life is Feudal: Space Marine Edition

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Lord_Sitruc
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Life is Feudal: Space Marine Edition

Post by Lord_Sitruc » 09 Jan 2017, 16:35

So already posted this inside another topic but wanted to post it here to bring it to a bigger audience.

Something I had not thought about but was taught about this weekend. People are using alts as paratroopers in the middle of a siege. (to be honest if you really wanted you wouldn't even really need to use alts they just make this tactic less costly.) They prepositioned upwards of 10 alts inside our base during off hours when nobody was on to defend the walls and then logged out inside the base around a week before judgment hour. Then as their attack was being repelled on the outer walls 10 "Paratroopers" appeared inside the main defenses and caused mass chaos and ridiculousness.

Defenses are already pretty easy to bypass, but I could see this become a thing in the mmo pretty easily for people.

Go pre position people inside the walls, wait till right before siege/JH or wtf we are going to get now. declare war 3 minutes before it starts and then have all your guys parachute into someones base as they are still trying to decide what is going on, why they were war dec'd yada yada yada. Suddenly they have 20 people inside their walls killing them as they gather equipment, then going on to destroy there economy.

If this is going to be a basic tactic of groups we are not going to have life is feudal, we will have life is feudal: space marine edition.

Even if you can't destroy the monument, how hard do you think it will be to win the field battles after wrecking a clans economy after doing something like this and burning everything not on the town claim?

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Re: Life is Feudal: Space Marine Edition

Post by Brother » 09 Jan 2017, 21:18

352. Any plans to limit where players can logoff - i.e. within the town/city claim of another guild?

Answer: You cannot prevent anyone from unplugging hiss network cable or terminating client process anywhere in the game. We cannot let such character to hang in game indefinitely and it will not be correct to teleport him back to binding point either. I'm not talking about the fact, that it will be VERY hard to track all those logged off characters if they are in the friendly claim or that friendly claim became an enemy claim because of a war declaration recently...


^ There's your answer, but I don't think it's the one you wanted. Unfortunately, I have to agree with you that this will likely be the number one tactic griefy guilds use come launch.
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Re: Life is Feudal: Space Marine Edition

Post by Arthur Pendragon » 09 Jan 2017, 21:36

BrotherPhinque wrote:352. Any plans to limit where players can logoff - i.e. within the town/city claim of another guild?

Answer: You cannot prevent anyone from unplugging hiss network cable or terminating client process anywhere in the game. We cannot let such character to hang in game indefinitely and it will not be correct to teleport him back to binding point either. I'm not talking about the fact, that it will be VERY hard to track all those logged off characters if they are in the friendly claim or that friendly claim became an enemy claim because of a war declaration recently...


^ There's your answer, but I don't think it's the one you wanted. Unfortunately, I have to agree with you that this will likely be the number one tactic griefy guilds use come launch.


To that answer, There would be nothing wrong with making someone who logs into a claim that he isnt a part of unable to go into war stance.


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Re: Life is Feudal: Space Marine Edition

Post by Baal » 09 Jan 2017, 22:17

Why not just relocate coordinates of player who disconnect in other claim to set new coordinates outside claim zone. I don't know if it will affect server performance, but with a feature like this no more player will use this tactic and rarely need coordinates change.

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Re: Life is Feudal: Space Marine Edition

Post by Knar » 10 Jan 2017, 13:09

Lord_Sitruc wrote:Something I had not thought about but was taught about this weekend. People are using alts as paratroopers in the middle of a siege. (to be honest if you really wanted you wouldn't even really need to use alts they just make this tactic less costly.) They prepositioned upwards of 10 alts inside our base during off hours when nobody was on to defend the walls and then logged out inside the base around a week before judgment hour. Then as their attack was being repelled on the outer walls 10 "Paratroopers" appeared inside the main defenses and caused mass chaos and ridiculousness.

First off, we only had 5 alts in your base, and they killed all 10 of your defenders before our outside team got over the wall. There are no "paratroopers" flying into your base, they had to get over your walls legitimately.

There are ways to counter base logging. If you can't fight a force that's already inside your base, you dont stand a chance in a siege anyways.


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Re: Life is Feudal: Space Marine Edition

Post by Lord_Sitruc » 10 Jan 2017, 13:19

I didn't come here to start an epeen contest, I came here to discuss the issue.

Also your bad at math.

Have a nice day.


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Re: Life is Feudal: Space Marine Edition

Post by Bole » 10 Jan 2017, 14:14

The easy and only way to fix this is this.

After 10-20 mins of being logged off you get auto ported to your bind spot. other games solved this issue with this game mechanic. I don't see why it cant be implemented here. no real way to Exploit the gate, its basically just praying home.

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Re: Life is Feudal: Space Marine Edition

Post by Knar » 10 Jan 2017, 17:12

Bole wrote:The easy and only way to fix this is this.

After 10-20 mins of being logged off you get auto ported to your bind spot. other games solved this issue with this game mechanic. I don't see why it cant be implemented here. no real way to Exploit the gate, its basically just praying home.

So if you don't have a house yet, you have to make multiple runs from 25 to your home? That would be terrible.


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Re: Life is Feudal: Space Marine Edition

Post by Kildrith » 10 Jan 2017, 17:56

Knar wrote:
Bole wrote:The easy and only way to fix this is this.

After 10-20 mins of being logged off you get auto ported to your bind spot. other games solved this issue with this game mechanic. I don't see why it cant be implemented here. no real way to Exploit the gate, its basically just praying home.

So if you don't have a house yet, you have to make multiple runs from 25 to your home? That would be terrible.


lol, true but you would only make the mistake of doing that 1 time, so it wouldn't be multiple runs.


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Re: Life is Feudal: Space Marine Edition

Post by Kildrith » 10 Jan 2017, 17:59

the only problem I see with this solution is for people who are casuals or new to the game, people that don't log in frequently may find them selves logged out where there is no claim only to log in on a claim that was put up while they are offline, what happens then? and if you propose something different happens than that of the intended effect for "paratroopers" that would be unrealistic.


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Re: Life is Feudal: Space Marine Edition

Post by Cian » 10 Jan 2017, 23:29

Kildrith wrote:the only problem I see with this solution is for people who are casuals or new to the game, people that don't log in frequently may find them selves logged out where there is no claim only to log in on a claim that was put up while they are offline, what happens then? and if you propose something different happens than that of the intended effect for "paratroopers" that would be unrealistic.


Lets talk about realism shall we? If we were focusing on realism any enemies spending the night in a hostile city would be hunted down and either killed or imprisoned by agents of the crown.

Logging out on an enemy claim in order to login and ambush an enemy is sheer BS. It requires no skill. It requires no effort. It merely required the ability to sneak on to their walls during their off peak time and log a character out. They login, do enough damage to allow the attackers to succeed and thats it.

You can make all the qualifiers you want. "Well you didn't deserve that city." "Your too dumb to defeat a legitimate tactic" Whatever. Its stupid, it's not realistic, and quite frankly its a broken mechanic that is being abused by wannabe LEET pvpers who can't win a siege without engaging in the abuse of broken mechanics to win.

I havn't even been the victim of this mechanic. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out how stupid it is coupled with the even dumber idea of adding a wall climbing skill to make such a cringe worthy tactic even easier to implement.

Tell you what. You add NPC guards en mass to defend the walls and then you can have wall climbing and log on attacks.
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Re: Life is Feudal: Space Marine Edition

Post by Bole » 11 Jan 2017, 01:05

Kildrith wrote:the only problem I see with this solution is for people who are casuals or new to the game, people that don't log in frequently may find them selves logged out where there is no claim only to log in on a claim that was put up while they are offline, what happens then? and if you propose something different happens than that of the intended effect for "paratroopers" that would be unrealistic.



they would have to come up with some sort of Cheap Bind for that instance.


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Re: Life is Feudal: Space Marine Edition

Post by Bole » 11 Jan 2017, 01:30

Cian wrote:
Kildrith wrote:the only problem I see with this solution is for people who are casuals or new to the game, people that don't log in frequently may find them selves logged out where there is no claim only to log in on a claim that was put up while they are offline, what happens then? and if you propose something different happens than that of the intended effect for "paratroopers" that would be unrealistic.


Lets talk about realism shall we? If we were focusing on realism any enemies spending the night in a hostile city would be hunted down and either killed or imprisoned by agents of the crown.

Logging out on an enemy claim in order to login and ambush an enemy is sheer BS. It requires no skill. It requires no effort. It merely required the ability to sneak on to their walls during their off peak time and log a character out. They login, do enough damage to allow the attackers to succeed and thats it.

You can make all the qualifiers you want. "Well you didn't deserve that city." "Your too dumb to defeat a legitimate tactic" Whatever. Its stupid, it's not realistic, and quite frankly its a broken mechanic that is being abused by wannabe LEET pvpers who can't win a siege without engaging in the abuse of broken mechanics to win.

I havn't even been the victim of this mechanic. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out how stupid it is coupled with the even dumber idea of adding a wall climbing skill to make such a cringe worthy tactic even easier to implement.

Tell you what. You add NPC guards en mass to defend the walls and then you can have wall climbing and log on attacks.


NPC guards is a Very good idea. I like it.


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Re: Life is Feudal: Space Marine Edition

Post by Cian » 11 Jan 2017, 03:04

Unfortunately it won't happen. It's too stressful on server resources. I was using it to illustrate a point. Sometimes just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should.

Things like that will encourage people to remain on LIFYO and not play the MMO. So will people who spawn camp enemies in order to force massive skill loss on them.

Both are likely problems resulting from allowing enemies to login on a claim. Quite frankly it shouldnt be an issue. If an enemy puts up a siege tent and you can bind to it, any enemies logging into a enemy claim should be kicked back to the siege tent bind.

They should not be able to sneak in during off peak and lie in wait to login and attack.
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Re: Life is Feudal: Space Marine Edition

Post by Wookiee420 » 11 Jan 2017, 07:10

Cian wrote:Unfortunately it won't happen. It's too stressful on server resources. I was using it to illustrate a point. Sometimes just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should.

Things like that will encourage people to remain on LIFYO and not play the MMO. So will people who spawn camp enemies in order to force massive skill loss on them.

Both are likely problems resulting from allowing enemies to login on a claim. Quite frankly it shouldnt be an issue. If an enemy puts up a siege tent and you can bind to it, any enemies logging into a enemy claim should be kicked back to the siege tent bind.

They should not be able to sneak in during off peak and lie in wait to login and attack.


I like both this idea of the siege tent, and also the idea of warping someone to just outside the claim.

I know this is anecdotal, but the only time I can see this log out being fair as it is, is like in the situation I had my first time on YO. I was invited to a guild/kingdom (whatever you wanna call it in YO) but by the time I got across the map everyone (there were only 3 people on when i started to head there) had logged off, so it was easiest for me to log off on their claim, and in their kingdom so that when anyone came on to add me to guild I was there.


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Re: Life is Feudal: Space Marine Edition

Post by Bole » 11 Jan 2017, 09:42

Cian wrote:Unfortunately it won't happen. It's too stressful on server resources. I was using it to illustrate a point. Sometimes just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should.

Things like that will encourage people to remain on LIFYO and not play the MMO. So will people who spawn camp enemies in order to force massive skill loss on them.

Both are likely problems resulting from allowing enemies to login on a claim. Quite frankly it shouldnt be an issue. If an enemy puts up a siege tent and you can bind to it, any enemies logging into a enemy claim should be kicked back to the siege tent bind.

They should not be able to sneak in during off peak and lie in wait to login and attack.



then make NPC guards only in the MMO?


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Re: Life is Feudal: Space Marine Edition

Post by Gastenns » 11 Jan 2017, 12:53

Logging out inside someones base for the purposes of killing them is clearly broken. I'm sure at some point in the future they will fix it so that Either you gain a debuff when you log in a claim till you leave the claim unless its your claim, or NPC's or some teleportation. Obviously their are issues with all of them and the devs have been good at fixing exploits like this in the past. But clearly Cian is right even if you can use it doesn't mean you should.
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Re: Life is Feudal: Space Marine Edition

Post by Lord_Sitruc » 11 Jan 2017, 14:01

Gastenns wrote:Logging out inside someones base for the purposes of killing them is clearly broken. I'm sure at some point in the future they will fix it so that Either you gain a debuff when you log in a claim till you leave the claim unless its your claim, or NPC's or some teleportation. Obviously their are issues with all of them and the devs have been good at fixing exploits like this in the past. But clearly Cian is right even if you can use it doesn't mean you should.



Unfortunately some groups believe it is a legitimate tactic and are even bragging about how many claims they have burnt down using it. So ethics in video games count for squat, and if one group is doing it all groups will start doing it.

I believe this will probably kill the server faster then anything else. If you have a huge siege and lose all your work most people will likely enjoy the fight and have the drive to rebuild. If you lose the siege in less then 10 minutes cause as the walls are being stormed you have a large number of people appear in the base and/or you are base camped in this manner I am sure many people will rage quit and the game will die.


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Re: Life is Feudal: Space Marine Edition

Post by Gruber » 11 Jan 2017, 14:13

I dont see a problem to check login position during jh/war times before hand and change it to the bind point when the char was offline longer than 10 minutes and is on enemy ground.
10 - 15 minutes is enough for disconnects because of an error.

Discussable would be if a position check should accour only during jh/war times or allways.


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Re: Life is Feudal: Space Marine Edition

Post by Kildrith » 11 Jan 2017, 14:48

Cian wrote:
Lets talk about realism shall we? If we were focusing on realism any enemies spending the night in a hostile city would be hunted down and either killed or imprisoned by agents of the crown.

You can make all the qualifiers you want. "Well you didn't deserve that city." "Your too dumb to defeat a legitimate tactic" Whatever


Let me first state, as I forgot to in this thread, I am against this tactic. I do believe that it will break the game in a bad way, however if want to debate realism, you think about the shear amount of people who live in castle towns or hamlets back in the time period we are emulating, people blending into the crowd and sneaking in before people know a war is coming is not that far fetched.

Which is why I opt for an approach that is pro game, not pro realism in this instance, because if this tactic is not curbed in some way it will destroy the population of the game.

Bole wrote:NPC guards is a Very good idea. I like it.

then make NPC guards only in the MMO?


The devs have already gone on record that there will never be NPCs in life is feudal.

Gruber wrote:I dont see a problem to check login position during jh/war times before hand and change it to the bind point when the char was offline longer than 10 minutes and is on enemy ground.
10 - 15 minutes is enough for disconnects because of an error.

Discussable would be if a position check should accour only during jh/war times or allways.

I don't that is realistic to be honest, if you are thinking someone is doing that manually, there is no way. if you are thinking its automated with a script, there are a lot of variables I am no programmer but I am not sure how easy that would be to do. That's why I think an all or nothing approach is best.

Cian wrote:Both are likely problems resulting from allowing enemies to login on a claim. Quite frankly it shouldnt be an issue. If an enemy puts up a siege tent and you can bind to it, any enemies logging into a enemy claim should be kicked back to the siege tent bind.


This is an interesting solution, but it wont ultimately solve the problem, all the attackers have to do is wait to place siege tents until the base logged alts have logged into the game world, you can build on this idea and make a preparation phase for the siege, (30 mins or so) where its the only time you can place siege tents, and the town is not vulnerable to siege yet, people can still circumvent this but it drastically cuts down the effectiveness of base loggers, again though ultimately does not solve the problem.

Honestly the best solution that comes to my mind is either force spawn at home, or center city and deal with the fact it will annoy people (maybe put a disclaimer up on the screen when it happens so they understand why they are not where they logged off) In which case they wont do it again, or spawn them in a random location along the edge of the claim.

Regardless one way or another one side will be unhappy, however if base logging is not stopped in any capacity I see people leaving the game, but if it is dealt with I think the people that use this tactic will be unhappy but ultimately still play the game.


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Re: Life is Feudal: Space Marine Edition

Post by Gastenns » 11 Jan 2017, 16:25

Kildrith wrote:The devs have already gone on record that there will never be NPCs in life is feudal.


They are making NPC villages, but I believe your right that originally they wanted no NPC's. Still they havent put in NPC's that would be available for the guild to use however this could change down the road who knows. I think the NPC's would be a solution even if it was a taxing one. The easier ones is to create a debuff or teleport out of claim or to a bind point.

Lord_Sitruc wrote:Unfortunately some groups believe it is a legitimate tactic and are even bragging about how many claims they have burnt down using it. So ethics in video games count for squat, and if one group is doing it all groups will start doing it.


Yea you are generally right. We have seen what happens in video games when their are not ethical standards. I could name hundreds; I have been shockingly pleased with the ethical standards for the most part. Even on no rules servers rarely do larger pvp groups grief. There is a mutual respect among most groups that we don't grief each other and most guild officers understand and respect that general rule. I'm sure we can all point to people logging out and in to get over walls, logging out in bases, griefing trees and crops, etc. The developers have heard and fixed most of these, and will continue to fix more issues. But yea if there is a broken mechanic then you can expect most people to use it because they wont unilaterally not use a tool (right or wrong) that another uses.
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Re: Life is Feudal: Space Marine Edition

Post by Gruber » 12 Jan 2017, 07:51

Kildrith wrote:
Gruber wrote:I dont see a problem to check login position during jh/war times before hand and change it to the bind point when the char was offline longer than 10 minutes and is on enemy ground.
10 - 15 minutes is enough for disconnects because of an error.

Discussable would be if a position check should accour only during jh/war times or allways.

I don't that is realistic to be honest, if you are thinking someone is doing that manually, there is no way. if you are thinking its automated with a script, there are a lot of variables I am no programmer but I am not sure how easy that would be to do. That's why I think an all or nothing approach is best.


It is quit easy to impliment this with a script. Its a simple check if your position is on enemy claim or not. This is already implented, otherwise the whole claim system would not work.


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Re: Life is Feudal: Space Marine Edition

Post by Kildrith » 12 Jan 2017, 16:37

Gastenns wrote:
Kildrith wrote:The devs have already gone on record that there will never be NPCs in life is feudal.


They are making NPC villages, but I believe your right that originally they wanted no NPC's. Still they havent put in NPC's that would be available for the guild to use however this could change down the road who knows. I think the NPC's would be a solution even if it was a taxing one. The easier ones is to create a debuff or teleport out of claim or to a bind point.


Sorry I meant specifically Guard/Guild NPCs

Arrakis wrote:Life is Feudal is all about interaction between players. There won't be npc guards, npc workers or stuff like that. You have to make an effort, find friends, make alliances, build settlements, kingdoms and brace yourselves :crazy:


Gruber wrote:
Kildrith wrote:
Gruber wrote:I dont see a problem to check login position during jh/war times before hand and change it to the bind point when the char was offline longer than 10 minutes and is on enemy ground.
10 - 15 minutes is enough for disconnects because of an error.

Discussable would be if a position check should accour only during jh/war times or allways.

I don't that is realistic to be honest, if you are thinking someone is doing that manually, there is no way. if you are thinking its automated with a script, there are a lot of variables I am no programmer but I am not sure how easy that would be to do. That's why I think an all or nothing approach is best.


It is quit easy to impliment this with a script. Its a simple check if your position is on enemy claim or not. This is already implented, otherwise the whole claim system would not work.


The only reason I think it might be harder said than done is the current stance the devs have on this subject, the last bit of the devs response indicates to me that they think it will be resource intensive to do what you are proposing.

If "logout" check if on "claim"
If on "claim" check "claim status" and "(Name of Claim)" to "logout character"
If "claim status" of "(Name of Claim) to "logout character" = "neutral" or "war" teleport character to location "A-Z" on location "(Name of Claim)"

again I am not a programmer but I figure it wouldn't be all that hard, my guess is, it is less about the script and more about taking up server side resources used to constantly track people for running an extra string every time someone logs out. but this is there stance.

Brother wrote:352. Any plans to limit where players can logoff - i.e. within the town/city claim of another guild?
  • Answer: You cannot prevent anyone from unplugging hiss network cable or terminating client process anywhere in the game. We cannot let such character to hang in game indefinitely and it will not be correct to teleport him back to binding point either. I'm not talking about the fact, that it will be VERY hard to track all those logged off characters if they are in the friendly claim or that friendly claim became an enemy claim because of a war declaration recently...


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Re: Life is Feudal: Space Marine Edition

Post by Rhobert » 12 Jan 2017, 16:50

Dev's might want to rethink their stance on the subject. They have a skill warfare engineering that will be completely ignored due to this exploit that is obviously going to be game breaking. Why make Trebs when you can just poof inside the castle?


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Re: Life is Feudal: Space Marine Edition

Post by Kildrith » 12 Jan 2017, 16:56

Rhobert wrote:Dev's might want to rethink their stance on the subject. They have a skill warfare engineering that will be completely ignored due to this exploit that is obviously going to be game breaking. Why make Trebs when you can just poof inside the castle?



I hear you, I think they should either come up with a new solution, or teleport, base loggers to the edge of the claim, as it stands I think this will come up a lot in the MMO, and I think it will drive players out of the game.


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Re: Life is Feudal: Space Marine Edition

Post by Kildrith » 12 Jan 2017, 19:21

The best way might be to add to the login script using a similar string I have above, that way it cant be circumvented by plug pulls.

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Re: Life is Feudal: Space Marine Edition

Post by Sleep » 13 Jan 2017, 10:33

Instead of limiting where player can log off, they should limit where player can log in. For example, during logging in: if player on the enemy claim, teleport him to the closest border of the claim. I don't think it will be such a big server perfomance issue. And even if it will, there's an easier option: set resurrection sickness debuff on players who log in on the enemy claim.


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Re: Life is Feudal: Space Marine Edition

Post by Oleski » 13 Jan 2017, 10:55

Sure, my game gona crash in the middle of battle in enemy claim and after relogin im gona have resurrection sickness. Best idea ever.

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Re: Life is Feudal: Space Marine Edition

Post by Sleep » 13 Jan 2017, 16:11

Oleski wrote:Sure, my game gona crash in the middle of battle in enemy claim and after relogin im gona have resurrection sickness. Best idea ever.
Logout timer will be implemented sooner or later. So you'll be dead anyways if your game crash in the middle of battle.


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Re: Life is Feudal: Space Marine Edition

Post by Kildrith » 13 Jan 2017, 16:40

Sleep wrote:
Oleski wrote:Sure, my game gona crash in the middle of battle in enemy claim and after relogin im gona have resurrection sickness. Best idea ever.
Logout timer will be implemented sooner or later. So you'll be dead anyways if your game crash in the middle of battle.



ya that's a good point, they are planning to add that to stop combat logging.

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