MMO NA Server and Wave 2... how's it going to work?

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Lord_Sitruc
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Re: MMO NA Server and Wave 2... how's it going to work?

Post by Lord_Sitruc » 08 Mar 2017, 17:19

Toren wrote:
Sharana wrote:Ofc it will, but different characters of course. No one can lock you with IP which will be stupid ))

And the fear of many americans is exactly that almost all big PvP guilds will stay on the EU server and NA will be RP party.
Now that's untrue. The fear of most Americans is that if they have to play on EU servers they will have to deal with low pop at NA primetime, have field battles and sieges during most Americans working/school hours, terrible ping which makes PvP skill completely irrelevant, and server maintenance during NA evenings as well. Well actually the main fear of most Americans I've met is that the game won't come out and PvP won't be finished properly, which is what most of them want, not large scale RP.

And if 120 people between the two largest EU alliances counts as a large amount of people then the EU server is gonna have population problems as well. Like Ishamael said, theres a lot of people waiting for this game and staying silent. If I had a nickel for every person who said they'd come back to the game when combat was "smoother", I'd have enough money to buy a Zealous Supporter Pack. :D



Completely agree with this.

People keep saying they are worried about US server pops but what I am worried about is losing out on participating in field battles, and sieges because I am working during prime time.

My personal opinion is a lot of the US players that go to the EU servers will become bored of missing out on all the prime time events, or frustrated when their stuff burns during EU prime time and they were only able to muster a fraction of their strength to defend their stuff.

I would rather play on a server with 1000 people and be involved in all the shenanigans then play on a server with 10000 people and be regulated to a laborer for a EU guild that goes out and fights while I am at work.

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Re: MMO NA Server and Wave 2... how's it going to work?

Post by Brother » 08 Mar 2017, 19:18

I just wish we had a solid timeline to work with. I'll echo the fact that there's a lot of mixing between EU and NA within guilds and knowing when the split will happen will be key to planning moving forward.

What I'm most confused by is Bobik's answer in the FAQ that the split will happen "before or during Wave 2."

I just hope we know when it will happen so we can decide when and where to invest our time. Personally, I doubt I'll invest a bunch of time on the EU server cluster during Wave 2 if they're going to open an NA server sometime during that run. Doesn't seem to make sense to me..

I'll also add that I agree with Sharana. The premier PvP will be EU. The best pvp guilds that I've spoken with all plan to go EU. Being the "best" PvPer on the NA servers will be like being the best AAA/summer/sunday league ball player.
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Re: MMO NA Server and Wave 2... how's it going to work?

Post by Toren » 08 Mar 2017, 23:02

Brother wrote:I'll also add that I agree with Sharana. The premier PvP will be EU. The best pvp guilds that I've spoken with all plan to go EU. Being the "best" PvPer on the NA servers will be like being the best AAA/summer/sunday league ball player.
I too have talked to a lot of good NA groups that are planning on going to the EU server because they think it'll be a better PvP ground. The ironic thing is a lot of these NA groups are enemies, and plan on going to the EU server just to fight each other, even through they won't be able to make the field battles and sieges because they have to work/go to school during the early morning hours when they take place. I think when they realize that they won't be able to even fight the real battles on the EU server they'll regret their decision.

And a lot of the best PvPers I've met have been from NA/SA. About 80% of them at least. Of course, as someone who has played primarily on NA servers, my view of the playerbase might be pretty skewed, but I've also fought a lot of EU players. Now my idea of a great PvPer might be pretty wrong since I'm no where close to being great, but its pretty obvious when someone knows what they're doing. While the NA servers have mass groups of RPers who don't know how to PvP, a lot of the hardcore EU PvP groups have a lot of PvPers who think they know how to fight just because they can shoot a bow from a wall at a group of 10 people, or a few patches ago thought that getting an 80 speed bonus from flicking a weapon up and down made them skilled. So I'd argue that being the best NA or EU PvP group/fighter would be on pretty equal terms if they fought each other, all things considered. Not every RPer is a terrible fighter, and not every hardcore PvPer that fails to accept that the game isn't balanced and polished yet PvP wise is a great fighter.


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Re: MMO NA Server and Wave 2... how's it going to work?

Post by Sharana » 09 Mar 2017, 01:24

Toren wrote: I too have talked to a lot of good NA groups that are planning on going to the EU server because they think it'll be a better PvP ground. The ironic thing is a lot of these NA groups are enemies, and plan on going to the EU server just to fight each other, even through they won't be able to make the field battles and sieges because they have to work/go to school during the early morning hours when they take place. I think when they realize that they won't be able to even fight the real battles on the EU server they'll regret their decision.


I completely agree on that, the biggest battles will keep happening on the weekend as now where NA players can take part, but that's not all. And if there was EU server opening up (NA for wave 1) I would have moved only for that reason. But that's me personally.

On the topic about PvP guilds ... well as someone who played on EU servers mainly should I say my opinion? Doesn't make much sense.
The only impression one could get was from the big (=always populated) PvP servers. Other than that we have the MMO wave 1. I didn't play YO (=meeting new guilds) in the last like 6 months. Before that while my guild was on a break from YO I played together with russians on russian servers (it's good to speak 4 languages :) ) as mercenary lancer (gear for fighting on their side) back in the times when lancers weren't spreaded and there were like 6 in all 3 russian guilds combined. So I played with and against EU/RU guilds mainly. But it's not really changing the current MMO picture - is it?

What good american guilds can you name? For me only Blood Vikings and Vinterscorn come to mind - one of them in BP (with mostly EU guilds and players) and the other one in KoV which is again mix of EU+NA players, just won't speculate on the ratio as I can't really know unless someone from them says. But I do know that they have hard time against big german (so EU) group. Other than that mentioned stand all the action in MMO scale (large) is between BP and USH (the russian speaking alliance).

For top individual fighters, that's like 2-3 warriors in 30+ members guilds, they are hard to find and I'm sure playing on EU it's hard to spot such NA players and vice versa, because ping is a problem and everyone looks for servers with good ping. As side note that's completely irrelevant outside of YO, in the MMO scale few great warriors that can solo kill 4-5 avarage ones mean nothing if they can easily get stomped in the field by cav or archers. The avarage level and teamwork is way more important. Every big BP or USH battle commander who already gathered experience in the MMO will tell you that when increasing the scale of the battle the importance of your top PvP core decreases exponentially. What actually decides the outcome is combination of numbers, teamwork, strategy, commander competence, avarage level of troops and luck of course (timing). Your best PvP players are somewhere at the end of such list with factors. And numbers do matter a lot - if 1 can easily win vs 3 it's much harder for 5 to win vs 15 and almost impossible for 50 to win vs 150. Skill won't decide anything in the last case unless it's 150 PvEers which is not representative example.
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Re: MMO NA Server and Wave 2... how's it going to work?

Post by Nomeatloaf » 09 Mar 2017, 02:22

As one of the few who have commanded large scale combat on the MMO, what sharana said is on point. skill is only about 10% of what matters for MMO scale battles. its numbers, and tactics and some other things. also, yea, please name me a few good NA pvp guilds. i have played a TON of YO, and on many different servers (NA servers), and the only other guild that was remotely good at pvp was Ironhearts, and as far as i know, they disbanded some time ago. and even then, they had very skilled 1v1ers, but put them in a larger scale battle, and they were a joke.
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Toren
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Re: MMO NA Server and Wave 2... how's it going to work?

Post by Toren » 09 Mar 2017, 02:59

Well thats the issue. I'm not going to sit here and list 20+ good NA PvP guilds cause I don't wanna miss any. However, a lot of those guilds are waiting on the game to either get better PvP wise or at the very least, be released. So yea, for a lot of those old NA PvP guilds you can say they have a few good members but lack numbers because most of their members are just waiting for the game to drop.

I remember a time when I used to fight in group fights against Blood Vikings, Vinterskorn, and I think even Ironheart once on my groups training server, along with many other guilds that I'm not going to name but still have some active members here on the forums. Hell, even a few more guilds of the Blood Pact have fought with us on the server. But a lot of people in my group and other groups got bored of the games unfinished, unbalanced PvP especially with the speed bonus glitches back in the day. Those people still check in and ask if the PvP is finished yet, which the answer to is "its better, but not done yet". If and when this game is ever finished PvP wise, a lot of these people may come back, but the longer it takes the less likely that will happen.

Oh, and having watched all the videos of that big battle in the MMO, it looked fun but didn't really have any elements of a real "group" fight. More like a bunch of disjointed, small scale fights over a large area. Which is, again, just a product of the games poorly thought out design.

Damned Americans and their justified impatience, right?


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Re: MMO NA Server and Wave 2... how's it going to work?

Post by Sharana » 09 Mar 2017, 03:25

Toren wrote:Oh, and having watched all the videos of that big battle in the MMO, it looked fun but didn't really have any elements of a real "group" fight. More like a bunch of disjointed, small scale fights over a large area. Which is, again, just a product of the games poorly thought out design.


I would say going head on with a tightly packed huge group will look fun, but will be exactly the definition of disorganized in my book. The large battles are long (this one was 4 hours if you count from the first rally point, 3 from the moment the main force entered enemy territory till porting back home.) and generally composed of many small scale skirmishes before the final battle. In this particular case it was skirmishing and tactical playing - scout parties, patrols, siege camp with healers, commander and guards, "outposts" who were guarding the possible "breach" locations - the enemy couldn't cross where his operations plan suggested (so we guessed right after hearing their words and interviews about the battle). Also killed some of their scout groups during skirmishing with our own forward troops. After all those skirmishes we ended up in pretty good advantage of 70-75 ( pretty much 0 casualties during the skirmishes who were just healed in the camp and ready for the final big battle instead of respawning on the other part of the map without the chance to rejoin) against thinned out enemy who is improvising (they had no backup plan how to get up there). As result when the final battle started it was very good for us - a moment where the enemy is splitted in defenders (12) and reinforcements (30 after the skirmishes) against something like 70, but because of the terrain and time (night comming soon, so we couldn't wait another hour for them to make their way up, had to jump down ourself) only the mounted ones (45 to 55) took part in the battle. But even in such situation (45-55 vs about 40) we had the initiative the whole time, cleared their cav from the field before dismounting and making a final push for their on foot part. And we've won with like 10-12 casualties combined, while they all died and the defenders respawned and fighted 2 times.

Going heads on 75 vs 50 in 1 big "team battle" would have resulted in much higher casulties even if it was still a win, you can't convince me that's more "organised" then what happened. It's just not really clear what's happening on the big picture through the eyes of a regular soldier (video from someone's POV), you need to be involved in the commanding and planning structure to get the whole picture :)

But for organisation and "disjointed team" let's just agree on organised chaos. All of this comes with experience. You start with complete chaos, go through semi-organised chaos and then into organised chaos. Lowering the chaos part are steps to be taken by everyone, it's just few groups pioneering it atm. Even the ones leading 5-10 players in YO know it's not easy, now add 70+ speaking 5 different languages. All the organisation will come with practice and that was the 1st so large fight with many other smaller scale ones (involving 60-70 players). That's why I don't believe in groups who think they will be factors but don't play wave 1. Right now it's groups with absolutely no practical clue how to coordinate and plan big and groups who are just scratching the surface and will be on completely different level compared to everyone else when wave 2 starts. Then we can really talk about organisation and large scale :)

Toren wrote: Hell, even a few more guilds of the Blood Pact have fought with us on the server.

I'm sorry, but the time is not static. The Blood Pact that I joined (april 2016) is very different from the BP during wave 0 (july 2016) after 2 months of "sparing" with the russians. Even more different when wave 1 (back in December) started and completely different now after working hard during the 2 months downtime on the lessons learned during the Decembers testrun where we were ... well let's say catching up, not pioneering. And I don't speak about members or anything - I mean organisation, tactics, battle commanders expertise, average level and fighting style.
The russians I fighted against in may-june 2016 are not same ones I played with/against few months later on russian YO servers and definetly not the same ones on wave 1. And I'm speaking about the same 3 guilds with pretty much the same veteran core of fighters.

For that reason "somewhen in YO server" holds no real (up to date performance) value to me personally.
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Toren
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Re: MMO NA Server and Wave 2... how's it going to work?

Post by Toren » 09 Mar 2017, 17:30

Don't really care if it holds any value with you, I was trying to make a point about the old LiF community and where they are now. Regardless of skill level change, its still the same people.


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Re: MMO NA Server and Wave 2... how's it going to work?

Post by Sharana » 09 Mar 2017, 18:17

Toren wrote:Don't really care if it holds any value with you, I was trying to make a point about the old LiF community and where they are now. Regardless of skill level change, its still the same people.


You were trying to make a point that 80% of the best PvPers are NA players. How has that nothing nothing to do with skill level change over time if they or their groups no longer play LiF?
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Re: MMO NA Server and Wave 2... how's it going to work?

Post by Toren » 10 Mar 2017, 05:05

Sharana wrote:
Toren wrote:Don't really care if it holds any value with you, I was trying to make a point about the old LiF community and where they are now. Regardless of skill level change, its still the same people.


You were trying to make a point that 80% of the best PvPers are NA players. How has that nothing nothing to do with skill level change over time if they or their groups no longer play LiF?
No, I meant that I don't really care if it holds any value with you, personally. And yes, the 80% is an outdated number, but again, a lot of those people gave up because this game is taking so long to finish. Also, I said my viewpoint is skewed because of the servers I usually play on.
In the end, you could also make the argument that current player skill is irrelevant to a certain point because all of the things that are bound to change with PvP according to the dev blogs and the Bobik interview. RIP drags.

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Re: MMO NA Server and Wave 2... how's it going to work?

Post by JackStark » 10 Mar 2017, 17:38

do you guys need a hug?

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