Now I’m a Believer

Everything you need to know about what’s happening in Life is Feudal.
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Arrakis
 
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Now I’m a Believer

Post by Arrakis » 30 Nov 2016, 17:04

Hey everyone,

We’re super excited to share something that we’ve been perfecting for some time: our new ‘Believer’ Packs!

Divided into True, Devoted and Zealous, each pack allows access to the MMO Beta, the ability to create a character early and a unique name on the forums among so much more!

For more information, check out our interactive FAQ about supporter packs here.

We also want to take this time to let you know how grateful all of us are for your continued support, belief and patience - we hope you enjoy these packages; we’re really excited to hear your thoughts and feedback in the MMO.

True to our word, LiF:YO owners will still get a free character in the MMO when it is fully released - plus LiF:YO owners receive a discount on these packs as a thank you for your long-term support!

We are also proud to announce the global launch date of Life is Feudal: MMO’s closed beta, slated for Wednesday, December 14,

Closed Beta registration has begun so be sure to sign up here and 1,000 lucky fans, chosen at random, will receive full access to the game.

- The team


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Re: Now I’m a Believer

Post by Saar » 30 Nov 2016, 18:09

Traduction française sur le site des von Culm


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Re: Now I’m a Believer

Post by SourZe » 01 Dec 2016, 06:25

What the fuck is going on?

is the Money running out?

man, I think a part of your community is pissed off and leave Life is Feudal an search an another game.

I think about it too. thanks for reading.

so long...

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Vukodlac
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Re: Now I’m a Believer

Post by Vukodlac » 01 Dec 2016, 15:28

So , i pay 30€ yourown at the first day of release... on the websit and not on steam , the FIRST hours of buying possibility to get 0 adventage on mmo ?


I have wait to buy the game at the first second , to be sure to get ALL adventage of time preparation

I have build an empire and push him to training and experiancing the game to be sure to get ALL adventage of time preparation

I have roam and work on the beta to be sure to get ALL adventage of time preparation

And now i'm fucked cause i cant buy the Biggest pack and GET all money adventage .

Frustration creation simulator 2017 Welcome .

In finality Money is Money , and only rich guy can be on the top ...
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Re: Now I’m a Believer

Post by Azzerhoden » 01 Dec 2016, 15:53

Vukodlac wrote:So , i pay 30€ yourown at the first day of release... on the websit and not on steam , the FIRST hours of buying possibility to get 0 adventage on mmo ?

I have wait to buy the game at the first second , to be sure to get ALL adventage of time preparation

I have build an empire and push him to training and experiancing the game to be sure to get ALL adventage of time preparation

I have roam and work on the beta to be sure to get ALL adventage of time preparation

And now i'm fucked cause i cant buy the Biggest pack and GET all money adventage .

Frustration creation simulator 2017 Welcome .

In finality Money is Money , and only rich guy can be on the top ...


I think your frustration is misplaced, and I contributed before you did. I also roamed all over the map. While future site discovery was the end goal, I enjoyed the exploration as well which is the sign of a good foundation of a game.

Of course, games have to be stable and fun to play as well, which is the purpose of the alpha and beta testing phases, not to grant those who have access an advantage over those that do not.

Further, free to play games have to make money in some fashion to pay for people and systems to keep the game running. That means offering fluff or pay to win items for cash. Bitbox has already stated they intend to avoid P2W at all costs. Given their track record (no NDA, honesty in interviews) I believe them.

Finally, as a beta tester, you already have early access to the closed beta, and the open beta. I think the real reason you are upset is that now your perceived 'advantage' has been lost.
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Re: Now I’m a Believer

Post by Vukodlac » 01 Dec 2016, 16:19

Who are you to say my frustration is misplaced... i'm frustrated cause i havent the money to pay my gold pack , not beacose the dev need money ... i never imagine this pack can be so hight price ( 60 for the lowest in normal price !!! )

i need to investigate to understand more about the cash shop , the starting pack and all money impact in game...

Its boring ....
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Re: Now I’m a Believer

Post by Aout » 01 Dec 2016, 16:24

Vukodlac wrote:i need to investigate to understand more about the cash shop , the starting pack and all money impact in game...

Yea. Thing is there is no info at all about the cash shop or premium accounts. It's all just "Can't give any details but oh yea no its no p2w, promise !"

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Re: Now I’m a Believer

Post by Azzerhoden » 01 Dec 2016, 16:26

Vukodlac wrote:Who are you to say my frustration is misplaced... i'm frustrated cause i havent the money to pay my gold pack , not beacose the dev need money ... i never imagine this pack can be so hight price ( 60 for the lowest in normal price !!! )

i need to investigate to understand more about the cash shop , the starting pack and all money impact in game...

Its boring ....

Fair enough, but you don't need to buy a pack. If you did not have access to the closed beta wave and were desperate to see it (which many of my guild were after seeing all of my internal promotions) I could understand that frustration.

Regardless, best of luck in the upcoming waves. :)
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Re: Now I’m a Believer

Post by Azzerhoden » 01 Dec 2016, 16:35

Aout wrote:
Vukodlac wrote:i need to investigate to understand more about the cash shop , the starting pack and all money impact in game...

Yea. Thing is there is no info at all about the cash shop or premium accounts. It's all just "Can't give any details but oh yea no its no p2w, promise !"

If I was to guess, I'd say the play page was produced/published by Xsolla and came out sooner than Bitbox expected. That's why they don't have all the details yet. Happens all the time in the software industry. Could be totally wrong though.

I would like to know what Alpha members get in comparison, but that doesn't impact my decision on picking up one of the packages in a week or two.

Just like you not having all the details you want about the premium accounts or cash shop doesn't impact you at all, unless you are planning on buying one and just don't know which to get. Since you haven't stated that yet, I can only assume you just want details so you can go full-troll.
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Re: Now I’m a Believer

Post by Vukodlac » 01 Dec 2016, 16:47

The cash shop or premium content can change ALL the meta game...

Depending that meta game balancement , i will Play , or Not

I dont pay more that 150 USD , and pull tons of hours , to go on unbalanced game broken by Cash adventage ...


Its in this way i need to know What , before give money .

Cause im a man of Reason , and i want know what i Buy .
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Re: Now I’m a Believer

Post by Sharana » 01 Dec 2016, 16:59

Vukodlac wrote:The cash shop or premium content can change ALL the meta game...


What was mentioned so far concerning real money is:

- rent house/spot/land in the main city
- enlarge the personal claim (up to 10 radius instead of 4 default)
- some kind of boosters (like more skillpoints gain for 1h)
- Armor reskins (like the pretty new ones they are teasing in the dev blogs)
- beautiful [no drop] clothes
- titles,
- taunts (animation and voice)
- ability to bear guild's banner flag

Doesn't seem to change the meta or bring noticeable advantages. It all depends on this premium they don't release info about.
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Re: Now I’m a Believer

Post by Aout » 01 Dec 2016, 17:48

Sharana wrote:
Vukodlac wrote:The cash shop or premium content can change ALL the meta game...


What was mentioned so far concerning real money is:

- rent house/spot/land in the main city
- enlarge the personal claim (up to 10 radius instead of 4 default)
- some kind of boosters (like more skillpoints gain for 1h)
- Armor reskins (like the pretty new ones they are teasing in the dev blogs)
- beautiful [no drop] clothes
- titles,
- taunts (animation and voice)
- ability to bear guild's banner flag

Doesn't seem to change the meta or bring noticeable advantages. It all depends on this premium they don't release info about.

"Consumables" and "other things" were also mentioned. As well as pretty much nothing about "premium subscription". Not even a vague idea or concept. This is why people raise concerns.

Also bigger claims and skill boosts seem pretty damn advantageous to me.

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Re: Now I’m a Believer

Post by Azzerhoden » 01 Dec 2016, 17:57

Aout wrote:
Sharana wrote:
Vukodlac wrote:The cash shop or premium content can change ALL the meta game...


What was mentioned so far concerning real money is:

- rent house/spot/land in the main city
- enlarge the personal claim (up to 10 radius instead of 4 default)
- some kind of boosters (like more skillpoints gain for 1h)
- Armor reskins (like the pretty new ones they are teasing in the dev blogs)
- beautiful [no drop] clothes
- titles,
- taunts (animation and voice)
- ability to bear guild's banner flag

Doesn't seem to change the meta or bring noticeable advantages. It all depends on this premium they don't release info about.

"Consumables" and "other things" were also mentioned. As well as pretty much nothing about "premium subscription". Not even a vague idea or concept. This is why people raise concerns.

Also bigger claims and skill boosts seem pretty damn advantageous to me.


Bigger personal claims, which really doesn't do anything but protect more of their stuff from thievery and decay.

Skill gain boost is also pretty limited. Even if doubled all it does is give the player an extra hour of skill gain. Over a week it would equate to an extra 7 hours of game play.

Neither is game breaking. I maintain my early statement that you are just looking for something to rage against.
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Re: Now I’m a Believer

Post by Aout » 01 Dec 2016, 18:04

Azzerhoden wrote:Bigger personal claims, which really doesn't do anything but protect more of their stuff from thievery and decay.

How the hell is that not an advantage ? Seriously wtf logic .........

Skill gain boost is also pretty limited. Even if doubled all it does is give the player an extra hour of skill gain. Over a week it would equate to an extra 7 hours of game play.

Dude not everyone is no-lifer. Some people only have like 7 hours a week. Also, isn't there skill loss on death, huh ? Wouldn't that mean I can afford more negative alignment if I have booster to make up for re-gaining the skills ?
Neither is game breaking. I maintain my early statement that you are just looking for something to rage against.

No it doesn't break the game. It just makes it pay 2 win. Simple.

If you think criticism is only me looking for trouble then I have nothing more to say to you from this point on.




Edit: To be clear, I don't have anything against some sort of monthly sub. Mortal Online is free, but limited to 60 skill points when you don't sub. I'm fine with that. They don't have a cash shop and skill boosters, though and they are pretty clear about what you (can) get. I simply want details instead of pressure in form of a time limited rebate on overpriced supporter packs.


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Re: Now I’m a Believer

Post by Pouget » 01 Dec 2016, 18:30

After buying LIF: YO now we have to buy a new game? LI Money, at the end you've only been lying to us. :good:

No more purchasing games from your studio. And I will convey the message to everyone I convinced to buy the game to do the same. :good:

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Re: Now I’m a Believer

Post by Arrakis » 01 Dec 2016, 18:32

Pouget wrote:After buying LIF: YO now we have to buy a new game? LI Money, at the end you've only been lying to us. :good:

No more purchasing games from your studio. And I will convey the message to everyone I convinced to buy the game to do the same. :good:

As LiF:YO owner you get access to Wave #2 and get a free MMO character after release. Make sure to spread the word about that too ;)



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Re: Now I’m a Believer

Post by Popers » 01 Dec 2016, 22:19

Sharana wrote:- enlarge the personal claim (up to 10 radius instead of 4 default)


You're joking right? It's not pay 2 win it's pay 2 playatall... You can't even build yourself a proper house on such silly "claim". You can live in a small warehouse or a barn :crazy: I hope they won't make horse riding unlockable by money...

I can undarstand skill boosters, but this one sucks big time... Also i hope there will be some diversity with clothes and armors(maybe not at the begining but at least after some update). Not only one each kind and the rest unlockable by money.

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Re: Now I’m a Believer

Post by Azzerhoden » 01 Dec 2016, 22:56

LIF-MMO is not made for single players. It is possible, but not probable. This is not Wurm where you can build yourself a nice large base in a safe environment. That's why this has been advertised from the very beginning as a Hardcore MMO.

A 4 radius area is an 8x8 area that is big enough for a three person home, a forge, a furnace, and a few other pieces of equipment where you can build yourself up and sell items on some trader.

If you want more, then join or form a guild.
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Re: Now I’m a Believer

Post by Azzerhoden » 01 Dec 2016, 23:18

Aout wrote:How the hell is that not an advantage ? Seriously wtf logic .........
What can one person do with a personal claim of any size? They can go be a player killer and suffer alignment hits as they cannot set standings with anyone. They could become craftsmen I suppose and sell items on the market, but they certainly won't be able to complete against large, organized guilds. I suppose they could be a farmer and/or sell cooked foods. With the latter the size of the claim would make a difference as to having a barn and stable.

Of course, they could also join a guild and make the personal claim size moot.

Dude not everyone is no-lifer. Some people only have like 7 hours a week. Also, isn't there skill loss on death, huh ? Wouldn't that mean I can afford more negative alignment if I have booster to make up for re-gaining the skills ?


Which is precisely what the skill boosters are for. Those who cannot log in for multiple hours can increase their skill gain for a short period of time.

Of course, you had the opportunity to free up more time for gaming. I would bet you didn't take advantage of it though..... ;)

No it doesn't break the game. It just makes it pay 2 win. Simple.

Nonsense, Pay-To_Win games are about giving items/access/skill that is unobtainable in other ways. In this instance players may reach higher skill tiers before others, but a 7 hour advantage over the course of a week is easily overcome.

If you think criticism is only me looking for trouble then I have nothing more to say to you from this point on.


Edit: To be clear, I don't have anything against some sort of monthly sub. Mortal Online is free, but limited to 60 skill points when you don't sub. I'm fine with that. They don't have a cash shop and skill boosters, though and they are pretty clear about what you (can) get. I simply want details instead of pressure in form of a time limited rebate on overpriced supporter packs.


If you follow the link above to one of your earlier posts, you had asked how you would go about getting a yellow name. Now you know.

You state above that you have no issue with monthly fees and that MO is free to play but has a skill cap. How in the heck is THAT not PAY TO WIN? Be definition that is PAY TO WIN!. How would you feel if you were told that instead of 400 skill points in crafting or combat, you could only spend 100. How would that still make you competitive?

Finally - the 'premium subscription', while undefined as to what that entails, certainly sounds like an upcoming MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTION plan. Or do you think that people will have to buy a zealot package every 2 months?
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Re: Now I’m a Believer

Post by Sharana » 01 Dec 2016, 23:21

Popers wrote:
Sharana wrote:- enlarge the personal claim (up to 10 radius instead of 4 default)


You're joking right? It's not pay 2 win it's pay 2 playatall... You can't even build yourself a proper house on such silly "claim". You can live in a small warehouse or a barn :crazy: I hope they won't make horse riding unlockable by money...


I have the feeling you don't understand what personal claim is. That is NOT a claim like in YO you can place wherever you feel like. Only groups of 10+ players can claim land and that's guild claims.

Personal claim is something you can place INSIDE guild's claim with the leader's permission. The default is planned to be 4 "Are" (not radius sorry) which is 400m2. In game that's about 10x10 tiles, but Bobik said they will make it rectangle, so more like 12x8 tiles. And that's the maximum size that will grow as you level authority skill, you will start with much smaller.
1000m2 that's the payed maximum is 250tiles or let's say 20x12 tiles.

Of course it's more, but the main question is why would you need it in the first place? Protection - nope, because you are on guild's countryside (outside of the guild's town, still their land) and when the guild is raided the personal claims will become lootable just as the guild claim itself. You don't need to build yourself village inside the village either - you just use the guild's infrastructure. You can build yourself high quality workshop and use it as home and storage for personal items.

So tl:dr personal claim is your small corner of the guild's claim that only you and the guild's leader can access (open chests, etc), you can build yourself home if you want and stash your personal belonging there (that can be looted when the guild gets raided). You don't need much place for that and you don't have any advantage over someone with bigger personal claim. He can just use it to build himself small farm, nice garden or some production stuff, but for outsider that's just the guild claim he sees and it doesn't matter if part of it is "personal".
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Re: Now I’m a Believer

Post by Ubaciosamse » 01 Dec 2016, 23:38

I feel that 90% of the rage everywere about life is feudal in general is from people that are lazy or not competent enough to understand how things work, didnt mean to be offensive in a plain sense, just its the crude truth.
People complain before doing any research on things.
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Re: Now I’m a Believer

Post by Azzerhoden » 01 Dec 2016, 23:58

Or even thinking things through to some degree. I'll be the first to admit that sometimes I head down the wrong path (who doesn't?), but I am utterly bewildered about someone complaining about "Premium Subscription" and then say they are OK with a monthly subscription, as long as they know what they get with it.

The dev team doesn't know yet, which is why the special lasts for a month and a half.

Oh! But then its too late for the CBT! We just want everything laid out before buying anything! Understandable, but then prior to the release in steam some of us contributed on what was just a dream.

But some of us can't afford to pay that right now! Yes, I hear you, which is why I haven't bought one yet. Life ain't always fair. Adjust, and move on.

/rantoff
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Re: Now I’m a Believer

Post by Aout » 02 Dec 2016, 00:03

Azzerhoden wrote:
Spoiler

So you are saying buying time is completely different from buying other means of advantages ?
Got it. Thanks.

The mortal example: You may say this makes it pay2win, I'd say it makes it pay2play. In that sense, you could argue any MMO that can be bought is pay2win since you can always buy more accounts, giving you an edge. The thing is, most human beings are only able to control 1 toon at a time; and you need to make an actual in-game investment into your newly acquired toon. Mortal also makes it clear what you get (as stated above); which pretty much is what I'd like to see from LiF as well. Just tell us what "premium account" means. There must be at least *some* rough ideas. Instead we get "uhm, dunno yet". They also don't sell you starter kits and premium currency and all that other extra crap.

What I am against is instant gratification through cash shops. If I can just go ahead and buy some skill points (which essentially is what a Skill Booster does) I'll bypass an in-game effort that people who don't buy the booster have to make. I can just do other things instead of grinding skills - i.e. make more in-game money. Now, the concept of grind is yet another topic I'm not eager to delve into right here in this post. It would explode. Suffice to say using your skills in order to accomplish things should be where the game is at, not "grinding" those skills up. Regardless of your premium currency budget.

I'll make it simple: A skill boost is not cosmetics. Can we agree on that one ?

Good.

My stance: Being able to buy non-cosmetics via premium currency is bad, Mkay ? You may disagree, but you have to deal with the fact that I'm not the only one turned down by it. Heck even if it is only cosmetics it's detrimental to an immersive sandbox game. If I wanna look fancy, I wanna be able to craft something that looks fancy. If I see someone looking fancy I don't want to hear "oh I bought the skin" when asking who the tailor is or where he found it. Cash shops suck. Deal with it. What happened to good old monthly subs ?

Ohwell, this post was pointless, wasn't it ? Tell me how I just wanna rage or something.
Last edited by Aout on 02 Dec 2016, 00:21, edited 2 times in total.


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Re: Now I’m a Believer

Post by Popers » 02 Dec 2016, 00:04

Sharana wrote:Personal claim is something you can place INSIDE guild's claim with the leader's permission. The default is planned to be 4 "Are" (not radius sorry) which is 400m2. In game that's about 10x10 tiles, but Bobik said they will make it rectangle, so more like 12x8 tiles. And that's the maximum size that will grow as you level authority skill, you will start with much smaller.
1000m2 that's the payed maximum is 250tiles or let's say 20x12 tiles.

Of course it's more, but the main question is why would you need it in the first place? Protection - nope, because you are on guild's countryside (outside of the guild's town, still their land) and when the guild is raided the personal claims will become lootable just as the guild claim itself. You don't need to build yourself village inside the village either - you just use the guild's infrastructure. You can build yourself high quality workshop and use it as home and storage for personal items.

So tl:dr personal claim is your small corner of the guild's claim that only you and the guild's leader can access (open chests, etc), you can build yourself home if you want and stash your personal belonging there (that can be looted when the guild gets raided). You don't need much place for that and you don't have any advantage over someone with bigger personal claim. He can just use it to build himself small farm, nice garden or some production stuff, but for outsider that's just the guild claim he sees and it doesn't matter if part of it is "personal".


If it's 10x10 tiles without monument inside than it isn't that bad.


For me personal claim was a possibility to create villages/outposts outside of the city walls, which would make countryside more interesting and could be used for strategic reasons. If they will be ractangual 12x8 without monument inside it's going to be good enough i guess, since you would be able to make couple claims next to each other, and just share gate privilages. I hope it will enable us to create even bigger construct like keeps on connected personal claims.

As i understood correctly buildings on the realm claim only do decay with time? All buildings must be build on town/personal claim right?

Ubaciosamse wrote:I feel that 90% of the rage everywere about life is feudal in general is from people that are lazy or not competent enough to understand how things work, didnt mean to be offensive in a plain sense, just its the crude truth.
People complain before doing any research on things.


On gamepedia it says that personal claim is going to be 9 tile radius circle...
Nothing about buying anything, or anything Sharana said.
Do we have to hire detectives first before speaking about our concerns on forum?
Last edited by Popers on 02 Dec 2016, 00:30, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Now I’m a Believer

Post by Azzerhoden » 02 Dec 2016, 00:15

Popers wrote:If it's 10x10 tiles without monument inside than it isn't that bad.


For me personal claim was a possibility to create villages/outposts outside of the city walls, which would make countryside more interesting and could be used for strategic reasons. If they will be ractangual 12x8 without monument inside it's going to be good enough i guess, since you would be able to make couple claims next to each other, and just share gate privilages. I hope it will enable us to create even bigger construct like keeps on connected personal claims.

As i understood correctly buildings on the realm claim only do decay with time? All buildings must be build on town/personal claim right?


My understanding of personal claims differs from Sharana, but since they are not in yet there is no point in discussing specifics (you know, kind of like raging against premium subscriptions), but the Duchy is going to use in game mechanics to support the concept of an outpost or town (the latter we refer to as a Borough).

In essence, those who wished to build either would have to receive a grant from the King or their Duke (which ever is more appropriate, based on size) and they would then form a guild along with the supporting monument. They would then swear fealty to the King (or Duke) making them part of the large realm.

Should someone wish to go to war against them, then either the Duchy (or Kingdom) would also go to war, as that is part of the feudal agreement. At least out of game it would be. In game mechanics may require additional steps.
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Re: Now I’m a Believer

Post by Sharana » 02 Dec 2016, 00:40

Popers wrote:For me personal claim was a possibility to create villages/outposts outside of the city walls, which would make countryside more interesting and could be used for strategic reasons. If they will be ractangual 12x8 without monument inside it's going to be good enough i guess, since you would be able to make couple claims next to each other, and just share gate privilages. I hope it will enable us to create even bigger construct like keeps on connected personal claims.

As i understood correctly buildings on the realm claim only do decay with time? All buildings must be build on town/personal claim right?


That's another way to look at it. But from what we know there is town and coutryside claim - both are part of the monument (in the MMO town was blue, countryside yellow/orange don't remember). The town is small (we got radius 20 something on level 2 monument, wiki says radius 35 on level 4), so it's like citadel of a castle, the country side claim (=realm claim in the wiki) is about as big as the current LiF:YO claims - 60 tiles radius on level 3. If you've seen fully expanded tier 4 that should be the maximum as well in the MMO. So that's part of the guild and decay is off - personal claim is only about the permission, so it doesn't really matter for defensive structures.


Popers wrote:On gamepedia it says that personal claim is going to be 9 tile radius circle...
Nothing about buying anything, or anything Sharana said.
Do we have to hire detectives first before speaking about our concerns on forum?

Yeah - most info that's known from Bobik is interviews in russian. I personally found about 7-8 as I speak russian. Many insides of what they think and plan also came from game dev conference this summer in Moscow where Bobik had presentation + Q&A (found the map of 7 climate regions in the MMO there in his slides used for his presentation with seasons and what it's good/bad for).
As for claims in russian interview he said the personal claim will be "rectangular" with size of "4 сотки" which means 400m2. Ingame tile is 2x2m, so total of 100 ingame tiles. 12x8 is a guess based on that as 10x10 is not rectangular :) "10 сотки" (the paid one) is 250 ingame tiles and the wiki says up to 250 as well.
In the same interview he also says that renting land will be one of the main things in the game shop (both the enlargment from 4 to 10 as well as renting land in the main city).
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Azzerhoden
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Re: Now I’m a Believer

Post by Azzerhoden » 02 Dec 2016, 04:55

Aout wrote:So you are saying buying time is completely different from buying other means of advantages ?
Got it. Thanks.


Don't put words in my mouth. I said nothing of the kind.

Aout wrote:The mortal example: You may say this makes it pay2win, I'd say it makes it pay2play. In that sense, you could argue any MMO that can be bought is pay2win since you can always buy more accounts, giving you an edge. The thing is, most human beings are only able to control 1 toon at a time; and you need to make an actual in-game investment into your newly acquired toon. Mortal also makes it clear what you get (as stated above); which pretty much is what I'd like to see from LiF as well. Just tell us what "premium account" means. There must be at least *some* rough ideas. Instead we get "uhm, dunno yet". They also don't sell you starter kits and premium currency and all that other extra crap.
Pay2play is a different business model than free2play. It cannot be both, for you to call MO free to play but with a severe skill cap, and then call it pay2play completely invalidates your use of it as an example.

Yes - buying more accounts to give you an edge is another form of pay2win. I had 5 accounts in Eve, and I played all 5 at once many times as it greatly increased the amount of money I made. Granted, 1 or 2 were scouts sent out to watch local, but that is just more proof that this is a form of pay2win. Ultimately I got three of the accounts main characters far enough along that they stopped training and I created new characters that I would then sell, rotating one a month. This provided me with a reverse pay to win strategy as I only ever paid $20 a month for all 5 accounts.

And they have given a rough idea of what it is. Sharana has given an idea of what it is. You just don't like the answer.

Aout wrote:What I am against is instant gratification through cash shops. If I can just go ahead and buy some skill points (which essentially is what a Skill Booster does) I'll bypass an in-game effort that people who don't buy the booster have to make. I can just do other things instead of grinding skills - i.e. make more in-game money.

Its not the same at all. EvE now has that instant gratification. Spend real world money to buy skill injectors - poof - you can fly a carrier now. Now I have friends who still play the game who love this because those newb pilots are easy kills in expensive ships. That's not what I look for in a game, which is why I quit playing it.

Aout wrote:Now, the concept of grind is yet another topic I'm not eager to delve into right here in this post. It would explode. Suffice to say using your skills in order to accomplish things should be where the game is at, not "grinding" those skills up. Regardless of your premium currency budget.
Show me a game that doesn't have some sort of time investment and I'll show you a game not worth spending time on. Further - what you call raising skill by actually doing something worthwhile I will still call a grind, since nothing you accomplish in a game actually translates to real world value (unless of course, you are selling it to another player for real world money, in which case you are supporting pay2win).

Aout wrote:I'll make it simple: A skill boost is not cosmetics. Can we agree on that one ?

Good.

My stance: Being able to buy non-cosmetics via premium currency is bad, Mkay ? You may disagree, but you have to deal with the fact that I'm not the only one turned down by it. Heck even if it is only cosmetics it's detrimental to an immersive sandbox game. If I wanna look fancy, I wanna be able to craft something that looks fancy. If I see someone looking fancy I don't want to hear "oh I bought the skin" when asking who the tailor is or where he found it. Cash shops suck. Deal with it. What happened to good old monthly subs ?


Actually, I agree that I would rather this be a one character per account, monthly sub type of game. I have visions of seeing characters walking around in massive shoulder-pads or totally unrealistic weapons or dragons meshed over horses. I have hope this will not be the case, but can only judge based on what bitbox has provided over the last several years of development.

That doesn't mean I am going to jump to conclusions and run around screaming that the sky is falling like some adolescent two year old with a boo-boo on the knee (FYI - that's not directed at you).

Finally, I will tell you why a skill booster in this game is not the end of the world - or game breaking. Skill Caps and Skill Loss. In a game like Darkfall (the original), or Eve, yes, it is a horrible pay to win mechanic that rewards the lazy (and greedy game companies).

In a game like MO or even an oldie like UO, its not as bad, as the skill cap evens everyone out eventually. In LIF it means that someone will get to the skill cap faster but that is always unfair as it is ultimately based on the amount of time played. I'll be capped out in just a few days. Not with the skills I will ultimately be working toward, but with skills to build my stats where I want.

Now add in skill loss and that money someone spent just got wasted. In fact, some might consider it the ultimate in game player grief.
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Re: Now I’m a Believer

Post by Vukodlac » 02 Dec 2016, 05:34

To my opinion , the only "fair" way to implement some "adventage" consumable or stuff in shop ...

Is to made a time duration adventage item , able to be looted like a magic charm in diablo 2 ... ( with expiration time to make it not abused for sure )

The skillup increasement boost is probably planed to be a potion or scroll activing a magic boost... but bad way , cause its an "instant" boost ( when activate , the item disapear an cannot be traded or droped ) ...

But if you buy an item , staying in inventory , and giving boost during the period active in an inventory player... that mean the boost can be trensfered and trade or .... stole by murder during is activation period .

If cash adventage can be loose and dont give massive adventage , and NEVER instant adventage , that sound fair ...

For me , if you active a boost to gain go in xp rate X2 during ... 24h , you can maybe do it to help your constructor friend if he is not able to buy this boost , or you can loose it for the pure pleasure of your agressor....

If everybody can acces to that kind of boost by friendship or pvp .... that cut the pay2win side .
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Re: Now I’m a Believer

Post by Azzerhoden » 02 Dec 2016, 14:33

I don't know about trading these. To me they would instantly become the most valuable item in the game. Though I like the idea of them being stolen. Don't see a way to merge the two without creating an easy to exploit mechanic, so would rather they remain non-transferable.

For the rest of what you said, that's how I imagine them being implement, based on comments from Bobik and Arrakis.

As I wrote in a different thread, there is already skill boosters in the game. Its called food, where you can gain up to a 5x multiplier. If the potion/scroll adds a 1x skill multiplier in the same manner (which is already programmed into the game) then they become less valuable (except at launch) and making them non-binding items would be balanced.

This type of consumable could also be used for various 'special theme' stuff, like yearly game anniversary's, or seasonal events.

Now, if said potion boosts double the amount of skill gained after accounting for the food multiplier, then that would be excessive.
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Re: Now I’m a Believer

Post by Sharana » 02 Dec 2016, 15:02

After correction from Bobik I revise my statement. Personal claims can be placed in the wildness and they are fully protected from griefers 24/7, you can't steal anything from them. If you pay for the 25x10 claim you can make yourself fully protected village combining few claims...
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