Travel System (MMO)

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MartialDoctor
 
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Travel System (MMO)

Post by MartialDoctor » 22 Mar 2017, 09:09

This is in response to some ideas and conversations that I saw going up on the interactive FAQ in regards to the home teleportation system in effect now. It seems that there are definitely people, including myself, who feel this needs a bit of a revision.

Teleportation home allows players quick ways to return with valuable goods without any fear being attacked and robbed.

Teleportation home also allows players to quickly teleport home to defend it if under attack, thus preventing any means of a surprise attack.

The ability takes away from the feel of danger and the wildness that would exist otherwise.

So, my suggestion would be, why not implement a travel system? Some points could connect ports and others could connect land sections. These would be created by the devs. They would allow players to jump sections but not return completely home. They would need to be spread out as well so that travel would still be needed from one transport point to another.

This would solve all of the problems as I see it. Travel would be faster but there would be no way to return home instantly. It would still require traveling through dangerous areas and no safe passage all the way back.


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Re: Travel System (MMO)

Post by NbG-Darkwing » 22 Mar 2017, 10:14

Hi,
I think this idea is not good.
The function "Teleportation home" is an admission that we play here a computer game and no LARP ;)
I personally enjoy the big world, yes - you need about 2 hours to get from the middle to the edge of the world, but you meet so many beautiful views and not just evil people.

For better travel, individual streets will be interlinked.
This will already happen so that allied cities can help each other faster.

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Azzerhoden
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Re: Travel System (MMO)

Post by Azzerhoden » 23 Mar 2017, 17:13

First up, have to completely disagree with the travel system you proposed. I respect the thought you put into it, but portal type systems make travel even more meaningless. With the current system you can only travel back to your bind spot. A portal system means you can travel anywhere.

As for the existing system, I (and my guild) make use of it all the time, even though we also grumble about its existence.

The simple fact is not having the ability to port back would significantly raise the difficulty of the game and while I appreciate the desire to have a more realistic environment, if you are going to target anything like that you should also get rid of pocket ponies and re-spawning.

Games like EvE-Online got by for years without any type of 'insta-teleport' system. Indeed the vastness of the game system is what added appear for many, including myself. That doesn't apply to games like LIF though because EvE had thousands of player stations you could dock in (unless you went to 0.0 space). LIF has no safe havens for players.

That said, Eve added clones to the game because the vastness of the game system was starting to wear on people. When a game becomes too much work, people quit playing.

So while I am in favor of doing something to limit player recalling, getting rid of it completely requires that other in game mechanics be added (such as boats) to offset those points on the map that would quickly become points of wanton murder and contention, or so that players don't get ready to login, realize they have to travel for an hour or more hauling items, and decide to go play elsewhere.
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Sharana
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Re: Travel System (MMO)

Post by Sharana » 23 Mar 2017, 18:07

Azzerhoden wrote:The simple fact is not having the ability to port back would significantly raise the difficulty of the game


Correction - it would significantly slow down the development of island claims and it will require much more work. On the mainland it's rare to use the teleport this way, because you go to the wood/clay/mine/farm claim with a horse and if you pocket it to teleport back you waste 100kg of goods that you need to transport and if you look at the bigger picture it's faster for you to ride the horse in both direction, not just one.

So it can be argued how bad that is. I mean island provides massive defensive advantages, but it's much harder to build and maintain. A trade off. Many go for the hard "land bridges" that pay off in the long run after they are completed.
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Azzerhoden
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Re: Travel System (MMO)

Post by Azzerhoden » 23 Mar 2017, 20:09

Sharana wrote:
Azzerhoden wrote:The simple fact is not having the ability to port back would significantly raise the difficulty of the game


Correction - it would significantly slow down the development of island claims and it will require much more work. On the mainland it's rare to use the teleport this way, because you go to the wood/clay/mine/farm claim with a horse and if you pocket it to teleport back you waste 100kg of goods that you need to transport and if you look at the bigger picture it's faster for you to ride the horse in both direction, not just one.

So it can be argued how bad that is. I mean island provides massive defensive advantages, but it's much harder to build and maintain. A trade off. Many go for the hard "land bridges" that pay off in the long run after they are completed.


Don't forget about the man-made bridges - those where folks dump material in the water from a land edge (creating land above the water using unrealistic slopes that would never work in the real world), those created when someone who is overweight climbs on the back of someone who 'swims' them to a location for 'dirt dumping', and of course, my favorite, creating primitive beds and laying them nearly end to end as a constructed bridge for players to run across.

Lets also examine the completely unbelievable features of the game where horses can't swim, when in fact, horses are fairly decent swimmers with riders on their back, or that someone can overload themselves to the extent the game allows and still allow them to climb on the back of a horse and move!

So please, spare me your attempts to tie this to where we setup our base for an inconsequential testing wave. This is a game where the mechanics will never meet the physics or the real world. I realize that not everyone can separate their play styles from the overall health of the game, but I can, and do.
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Sharana
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Re: Travel System (MMO)

Post by Sharana » 23 Mar 2017, 22:50

Azzerhoden wrote:So please, spare me your attempts to tie this to where we setup our base for an inconsequential testing wave. This is a game where the mechanics will never meet the physics or the real world. I realize that not everyone can separate their play styles from the overall health of the game, but I can, and do.


Is everything personal for you? You are not the only one living on islands and all face the same problem - they need to transport lots of stuff back to the island like clay mainly, sometimes iron and even stone in some cases. All do it with the teleporting, some who are near the mainland build a dirt bridge to the mainland in order not to swim or teleport.

And it's hard to say the teleport should stay only because otherwise it will be even harder for the ones living on the many MMO islands.
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Azzerhoden
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Re: Travel System (MMO)

Post by Azzerhoden » 24 Mar 2017, 01:23

Sharana wrote:Is everything personal for you? You are not the only one living on islands and all face the same problem - they need to transport lots of stuff back to the island like clay mainly, sometimes iron and even stone in some cases. All do it with the teleporting, some who are near the mainland build a dirt bridge to the mainland in order not to swim or teleport.

And it's hard to say the teleport should stay only because otherwise it will be even harder for the ones living on the many MMO islands.


You are confusing the word personal.

Being able to teleport back to a bind spot is just as valid as being over-burdened and riding a horse, or building an unrealistic land/bed bridge, or carrying a pocket pony, or respawning after getting killed, or a host of other game mechanics.

It has nothing to do with living on an island or not. Its about game playability. Which is, and will remain, my focus.
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Re: Travel System (MMO)

Post by NbG-Darkwing » 24 Mar 2017, 08:46

Tut mir leid wenn ich mein Beitrag nicht in Englisch schreibe, aber leider sind meine Sprachkenntnisse nicht gut genug um es richtig auf den Punkt zu bringen.

Aber zurück zu der eigentlichen Diskursion, das "teleport back to a bind spot" funktioniert nicht instant und kann durch Schaden nehmen unterbrochen werden, daher ist es kein gangbarer Weg sich aus einem Gefecht zurück zu ziehen. Auserdem wurde es nach dem letzten update so angepasst daß man es jetzt nur grösseren Zeitabstand wiederholen kann, dadurch ist es nur dann eine "Transport Option" wenn zwischen Rohstofflager/Ressourcen und Zuhause in etwa eine halbe Stunde Weg liegt - und diese Strecke muß mindestens in eine Richtung in Echtzeit zurückgelegt werden.
Deswegen denke ich daß wenn jemand die Mühe auf sich nimmt eine Stadt an einer Stelle zu gründen die soweit von wichtigen Ressourcen entfernt liegt, dann sollten wir diese kleine Vereinfachung des Transports nicht verwehren - Spieler die ihre Stadt direkt in der nähe von wichtigen Ressourcen bauen werden durch den "Cooldown" dieser Funktion sowieso davon abgehalten diese zu nutzen.

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Re: Travel System (MMO)

Post by Fhoer » 29 Mar 2017, 15:07

Azzerhoden just destroyed this topic.

and i completely agree over how stupid it is you getting overloaded and climb on the horse. But it is one of the most efficient ways to move items around, if we just had carts being pulled by an ox or a horse...
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Re: Travel System (MMO)

Post by Veleif » 05 Apr 2017, 09:46

My opinion is that the teleport home function should be completely removed. Mortal online works just fine without teleportation.

Another option would be to make it available only once a real life day (24h cooldown with a 100% success rate) if you don't want to go that hard core.

Though current problem in the game is that resources are not scarce enough so there is no real reason to travel then general gank/conquest.


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Re: Travel System (MMO)

Post by Veleif » 05 Apr 2017, 09:56

Azzerhoden wrote:The simple fact is not having the ability to port back would significantly raise the difficulty of the game and while I appreciate the desire to have a more realistic environment, if you are going to target anything like that you should also get rid of pocket ponies and re-spawning.

Games like EvE-Online got by for years without any type of 'insta-teleport' system. Indeed the vastness of the game system is what added appear for many, including myself. That doesn't apply to games like LIF though because EvE had thousands of player stations you could dock in (unless you went to 0.0 space). LIF has no safe havens for players.


Yup, it is a double edged sword. Remove fast travel and you need places for player to rest in-between, no safe-spots for players. Or then you have fast travel and this will generally remove encounters in the open.

I would rather have no fast travel then 0 risk teleporting. Why would the devs make a large map to play if we would just TP around it and use 10% of the play area.

What we need is resource scarcity, no teleportation and some general guarded NPC towns for players to stash loot at storages.

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Re: Travel System (MMO)

Post by Azzerhoden » 05 Apr 2017, 18:38

Removing teleporting would also require removing terrain modifications pr many building options that allow you to trap other players. Which would pretty much mean the game would no longer be a 'sandbox' game.
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Re: Travel System (MMO)

Post by Sharana » 05 Apr 2017, 18:52

Azzerhoden wrote:Removing teleporting would also require removing terrain modifications pr many building options that allow you to trap other players. Which would pretty much mean the game would no longer be a 'sandbox' game.


Why is that? Improving the /stuck function or teleportation to the capital city if really stuck works too.
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Azzerhoden
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Re: Travel System (MMO)

Post by Azzerhoden » 05 Apr 2017, 21:57

Sharana wrote:
Azzerhoden wrote:Removing teleporting would also require removing terrain modifications pr many building options that allow you to trap other players. Which would pretty much mean the game would no longer be a 'sandbox' game.


Why is that? Improving the /stuck function or teleportation to the capital city if really stuck works too.


Not when the terrain or building design intentionally traps a hostile. It would make them moot.
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Re: Travel System (MMO)

Post by Some_Jerk » 09 Apr 2017, 20:54

Sharana wrote:
Azzerhoden wrote:Removing teleporting would also require removing terrain modifications pr many building options that allow you to trap other players. Which would pretty much mean the game would no longer be a 'sandbox' game.


Why is that? Improving the /stuck function or teleportation to the capital city if really stuck works too.


I think that would be ideal - improving the stuck function, or modifying the game somehow so that it's more difficult to create terrain traps to trap players. However, it's not very realistic of me to expect a change like this- I'm assuming it would take a very long time to implement.
Ideally I'd like to see a removal of the prayer for homecoming ability, and some other way to get Piety up (Why not just be able to pray once a day at level 0? ... but that is another topic)

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Re: Travel System (MMO)

Post by Azzerhoden » 16 Apr 2017, 15:53

Um, Yes, horses can swim in deep water. Try a google search on "horses swimming in deep water?". It is just not common.

Dirt dumped in water is not as stable as dirt dumped on land, so while possible (just ask China) it would require a great deal more material than what is needed in game.

No, you cannot tunnel under the water level. Water has a constant level in the game. Jump into GM mode and fly through the ground and you will see what I mean. Its a pity really, because that would be fun to do.

The point of the thread though was 'magical travel, which I've addressed in a different thread.
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Re: Travel System (MMO)

Post by Hallegra » 17 Apr 2017, 00:51

GavinMcStine wrote:@Azzerhoden
I didn't say a horse couldn't swim I said a horse couldn't swim with a rider.

As for the whole land bridge a 3000 pound horse, rider and items can be supported without any major effort to the land bridge.

Removing the teleport home would some what break the game. But adding restrictions to it might work better.


I'm assuming that's what they're trying to do with the half-hour CD instead of 10 seconds. They're trying to make it more like WoW, where the hearthstone is a useful tool but not really one to be used in combat-related situations. I guess the difference is that WoW's gameworld is quite a bit larger than LiF's.

I wouldn't mind seeing the homecoming ability scrapped or reworked myself. I like the idea of, like in medieval times, you had to go on an actual journey if you wanted to visit far-off lands. It's a little, well, cramped if it takes you an hour to cross half the gameworld via horseback compared to other MMOs. If the devs are adamant on keeping it in, Azzerhoden had quite a comprehensive proposal of how to balance homecoming.


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Re: Travel System (MMO)

Post by Dragmar » 17 Apr 2017, 06:24

Hallegra wrote:I'm assuming that's what they're trying to do with the half-hour CD instead of 10 seconds. They're trying to make it more like WoW, where the hearthstone is a useful tool but not really one to be used in combat-related situations. I guess the difference is that WoW's gameworld is quite a bit larger than LiF's.


WoW's game world might indeed be several times larger, but I do stil belive travel is easyer and faster there then in LiF. WoW has fast travel systems, portals, summons, flightpaths, etc. Where LiF limits you to your own two feet, or a horse. So I don't think that's a good comparison.



In my personal opinion I would want the pray home to be gone from the game completly, or atleast very limited. Say you could only pray home from the same server tile your home is.
I would be ok with some sort of fast travel, say 4-5 port "cities" around the map where it would make sence that you could travel to by boat.

I just feel like the "magicly teleport home whenever I want to" button is way to powerfull, even with a 30 min CD.
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Re: Travel System (MMO)

Post by Azzerhoden » 17 Apr 2017, 16:04

GavinMcStine wrote:@Azzerhoden
Removing the teleport home would some what break the game. But adding restrictions to it might work better.


Hense, my post to that effect. http://lifeisfeudal.com/forum/how-to-update-piety-and-resolve-recall-homecoming-t23081/
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Re: Travel System (MMO)

Post by Brett5290 » 04 May 2017, 18:46

This not real Life people have Real jobs, teleporting is needed for people who work to get back to base.


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Re: Travel System (MMO)

Post by En_Dotter » 04 May 2017, 20:13

Fhoer wrote:Azzerhoden just destroyed this topic.


Actually he just did a futile attempt of it. He is using typical way of arguing when in disagreement without proper argumentation.
Equivocation and weak argument by analogy aren't and never will be the a solid arguments, not to mention derailing the main concern of OP.
Teleporting home is not the same as any of other proposed unrealistic "abilities" players have in this game. And the thread is NOT about those. If we are talking about unrealistic things then everything in this game should change: for example, how the hell can u have more or less logs based on tree quality when those trees are the same size?
So back to the point:
Problem OP addressed - teleportation.
Solution OP proposed - node teleportation.
Can we stick to those things and argue why teleportation is or isn't a problem and why OP's solution is or isn't a good one without trying to find justification in other mentioned unrealistic actions?

In my opinion teleportation is a problem but I have nothing to propose as a decent enough solution. The main reason I even posted here and came out of my forum "hibernation" is because I believe people should start addressing the proposed problem(s) in a reasonable and well founded ways, and not to throw "realism" card(s) and other fallacies.

Nobody (except maybe some trolls) comes to suggest something for the lolz, but because they think they could help make this game better. By derailing and giving unreasonable arguments I believe you will deter people for expressing their concerns and proposing better gameplay.
Thank you for reading and have a good one.
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