- Serfs and Guards -

Have a suggestion or an idea for Life is Feudal: MMO ? Post it here!
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Elindor
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- Serfs and Guards -

Post by Elindor » 22 Mar 2017, 15:45

Since Life IS Feudal as Bobik always says - what about the ability to gain serfs and guards over time?

I know, I know - NO NPCS blah blah...yes but hear me out.
NPCs (aside from server stability issues which is a real possible issue but can be possibly avoided by my plan here) are not inherently bad, it depends on WHAT THEY DO.


---------------
SERFS
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since Life is Feudal, we need serfs. Right now a group of 10 guys rules/labors by themselves in massive castles and villages...which just feels empty half the time.

WHERE WOULD THEY COME FROM?

My proposal would be that once you put down a monument, it starts "attracting" serfs at a slow rate. They appear through the monument UI and you can assign them to tasks - like manning the blacksmith shop or the stables, etc.

WHAT WOULD THEY DO?

Once assigned, they would appear as an NPC figure in that location as a part of that building basically...so they aren't walking around your village causing server issues...they are literally a version of the building model...and they just kinda stand there and hammer or whatever...but it adds a little movement and sound to your village. In addition, when assigned to a building like a blacksmith or something - they could maybe do mundane tasks, like if you throw a bunch of logs in the forge, they could turn it into charcoal for you....or maybe their only mechanical application is a minor bonus to productivity when you do the tasks, like you get 15 charcoal instead of 10 from something.

WHAT WOULD THEY COST?

In return for this, you'd have to keep a stock of food available (again through part of the monument UI probably) for them, and if it ran out they would stop working. This is good because it would increase the need and usefulness of food and cooking - as well as possibly urging groups to have more farmland or rewarding them for having more as they could use more serfs...which is much more realistic and gives more pros to living on flatter, more farm-ready lands.

Perhaps they would also need some form of housing....like little low long huts called "serf quarters" that would house like 5 serfs each or something. And outside each serf quarter as part of the model of the building could be a woman and a child or something just kinda standing around moving slightly...again adding a "village" feel to your establishment you are the ruling group over (this part is of course not essential)


---------------
GUARDS
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So guards would operate similarly, but with some differences.

WHERE WOULD THEY COME FROM AND WHAT WOULD THEY COST?
To hire guards, you would go to the monument UI where the serfs appeared over time and instead of assigning one to a building you would instead turn it into a guard. Guards would also require food/housing as described in the serf section, but they would also require currency of some kind (gold/silver/copper coins or something) in the monument UI where the serfs/guards eat from. If the food or currency allocated to them runs out, the guards will stop working.

WHAT WOULD THEY DO?

Once serfs were turned into guards, they could be assigned to a tower or gatehouse or keep, and they would appear at that building.

A tower guard would be an archer or crossbowman (what kind of weapon depends on monument level) with a short sword or ax or something, and light armor. They would stand on that building and not leave it, firing arrows at intruders and fighting them in melee if they got close. That's it. Again - they would not leave their assigned tower (in an effort to reduce glitches/server issues).

Guards assigned to gatehouses would have better melee weapons and heavier armor (what again depends on monument level) and they would stand either on the inside or the outside of the gate and defend it...they would be basically immobile in that they could not leave the square (or few squares area) they were attached to.

Guards assigned to a keep would do the same thing but at the door of the keep.

* There would need to be a couple settings in the monument UI about how guards behave...like whether they attack on sight or not.

WON'T THEY BE TOO STRONG?
The effectiveness of guards (and their gear) would be determined by the monument level as mentioned, but not matter the monument level they are **NOT** intended to be a powerful force that could stop any serious attack. Higher level guards might be a deterrent to one or two attackers, and guards might help a defensive force a little....but no, they will not hold your base for you against any real attack.

--------------------------------------------
MONUMENT ADVANCEMENT
---------------------------------------------

In the case of both serfs and guards, they would give another reason to upgrade your monument as high level monuments would attract more serfs at a faster rate and when turned into guards they would be better than guards from lower level monuments. There would be a total number of serfs/guards you can have of course, determined by your monument level.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
SUMMARY
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Overall, the implementation of serfs and guards as described above would add life to the game and to the player establishments, as well as add more emphasis on things like food and farming and upgrading one's monument. These additions would make the settlements feel more alive and less like 10 guys ruling over nothing.

The implementation of these NPC's would *NOT* impede on the player run dynamics of the game in any way. As merely additions to the existing buildings, they only impact the game mechanics in small ways - in the case of serfs through a bonus to production of that building, in the case of guards through a little passive defense for your settlement (but again, not very strong so easily overcome on their own).

Also, as only additions to the existing buildings and not free roaming NPCs, they should be "somewhat feasible" from a coding/network stability standpoint. Free roaming guards and serfs in your village would create ALL KINDS of problems for the servers and glitches etc...but with them fixed to their assigned location (building, tower, etc) they should be feasible to implement.

----------------------------------------------------

Would love to know thoughts on this, especially if they are not "NO NPCS DUR!". Devs are already going back on the no npc thing with where the wildmen and swamp women thing is headed....and the NPCS I am proposing would add "life" to the game without diminishing the player run environment.
Last edited by Elindor on 22 Mar 2017, 17:09, edited 4 times in total.


JTCrowder1
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Re: - Serfs and Guards -

Post by JTCrowder1 » 22 Mar 2017, 16:11

Nearly every competitor to LiF has the things you're asking for.

It's what I did.

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Elindor
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Re: - Serfs and Guards -

Post by Elindor » 22 Mar 2017, 16:24

JTCrowder1 wrote:Nearly every competitor to LiF has the things you're asking for.

It's what I did.


You asked for this to be implemented into LIF?
Or you made a game with these systems? I R confused :)


JTCrowder1
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Re: - Serfs and Guards -

Post by JTCrowder1 » 22 Mar 2017, 16:26

Just go find a survival rpg you like.

There are plenty of competitors out there that have more content than this shovel simulator.


Arstan_Fogx
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Re: - Serfs and Guards -

Post by Arstan_Fogx » 22 Mar 2017, 17:59

JTCrowder1 wrote:Just go find a survival rpg you like.

There are plenty of competitors out there that have more content than this shovel simulator.



Give me one. I am searching for some games like this but most is total crap.

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Azzerhoden
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Re: - Serfs and Guards -

Post by Azzerhoden » 23 Mar 2017, 15:41

To the OP, the game already has Serfs and Guards, and Villeins, and squires, and knights, and freeman, and friars, and paupers, and lords, and even Kings. They are produced by guilds.


To JTCrowder, Why are you here? I mean, I get it, you're not happy with the game. So why don't you just move on? Go play those other games YOU think are better.
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Elindor
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Re: - Serfs and Guards -

Post by Elindor » 23 Mar 2017, 17:29

Azzerhoden wrote:To the OP, the game already has Serfs and Guards, and Villeins, and squires, and knights, and freeman, and friars, and paupers, and lords, and even Kings. They are produced by guilds


Azzerhoden, I am familiar with the purpose of this game as a player driven game....what I am proposing is not counter to that and does not infringe on that concept.

What I am proposing merely fills out the gaming experience surrounding the player settlements...adds background "life" to the whole thing, and further emphasizes certain aspects of the player driven gameplay like farming/food/monument progression, etc.

Sure, players are the serfs and the Kings, but medieval feudal society acted out by 15 guys is kinda silly...would a group of 15 have a King? King of what? My proposal seeks to fill out the background of the player run hierarchy we have going in LIF, to make it more immersive and believable, as well as augmenting and encouraging existing game mechanics.

Adding more residual "life" to settlements is something that I think all players would appreciate except maybe those exclusively interested in PVP, whom simply would not take much notice except any mechanical advantages (albeit small) that this system would make possible. All other players, ranging from farmers and builders to those that enjoy both building and combat would probably appreciate the added sense of "life" and filling out of the settlement environment.

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Azzerhoden
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Re: - Serfs and Guards -

Post by Azzerhoden » 23 Mar 2017, 21:34

Elindor wrote:Azzerhoden, I am familiar with the purpose of this game as a player driven game....what I am proposing is not counter to that and does not infringe on that concept.

What I am proposing merely fills out the gaming experience surrounding the player settlements...adds background "life" to the whole thing, and further emphasizes certain aspects of the player driven gameplay like farming/food/monument progression, etc.

Sure, players are the serfs and the Kings, but medieval feudal society acted out by 15 guys is kinda silly...would a group of 15 have a King? King of what? My proposal seeks to fill out the background of the player run hierarchy we have going in LIF, to make it more immersive and believable, as well as augmenting and encouraging existing game mechanics.

Adding more residual "life" to settlements is something that I think all players would appreciate except maybe those exclusively interested in PVP, whom simply would not take much notice except any mechanical advantages (albeit small) that this system would make possible. All other players, ranging from farmers and builders to those that enjoy both building and combat would probably appreciate the added sense of "life" and filling out of the settlement environment.


Elindor, I hope you don't take my objection to what you are proposing personal, as its not intended to be such. I have played games where players could add these types of objects to their base and for those games it was fine. For LIF I don't think it would be. I am still not completely sold on the idea of NPC natives, though I lean toward having them more than not having them. In a similar manner, I'm not in favor of gaining skills by beating on horses or training dummies.

So you know, I completely agree that it is extremely silly for a group of 15 guys to have a King, or even a lord. The titles that get assigned to players through game mechanics is just dumb. In the Kingdom of Hyperion, 15 guys won't even get you added as a fiefdom. It would get you the equivalency of a captaincy (assuming they were all fighters), and in the feudal system a captaincy is the equivalent of a Knight (specifically a Knight Bachelor).

Player towns/cities should be populated with real players. At launch I imagine there will be lots of little player towns and self claims. But then, like business in the real world, those small bases will be swallowed up by their larger brethren until only a few large player groups are left.

Which, frankly, will be bad for the game, but that's a different problem.
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Elindor
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Re: - Serfs and Guards -

Post by Elindor » 24 Mar 2017, 01:27

Not taken personally...my response wasn't meant to be personal either.

I just find the old "no NPC's" slogan not helpful and overlooks a large content gap issue in the game. But that's a whole different issue :)

What I am proposing here is not pivotal to the success of the game in any way and would have to be classified more as "fluff" but I do think something like this would add to the overall gameplay immersion and environment.

I just see it as a "adds a little bit, takes nothing away" kind of thing...so wouldn't be high on the to do list...but in the long run could give the game some more appeal for the farmers/builders and even regular players who like a little of both.

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Hallegra
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Re: - Serfs and Guards -

Post by Hallegra » 16 Apr 2017, 21:17

Hell, I'd be happy with serfs that simply wander around your claim and don't actually boost your production. Bases can feel really empty at times. I understand that the idea of guards might not jive with what the devteam wants, but npcs that simply populate the gameworld seems like a good idea to me. Imagine how much less immersive multiplayer GTA would be if it didn't have random civilians. Empty streets and castles does not a good immersive experience make


Schalkan
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Re: - Serfs and Guards -

Post by Schalkan » 16 Apr 2017, 21:59

i like the idea gurds not sooo much but the npc on a building so you get som life in the village

i am in a 10+ guild an we a ready to get in the open beta but maybe 3-4 peopel a on at the same time and we just wannt a village for us not get in the BIG clan´s so we must do is or that or cant do stuff
we looking for nice allic and a good kingdom but don´t want to be eaten by the kingdom
i like it
After a while many players get off or just leve the game and the big and the smal town´s get emty
and more smal village can settel
AND sooo you geht more life in the smal villages


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Re: - Serfs and Guards -

Post by Mors » 08 May 2017, 14:17

:good:
Elindor wrote:Since Life IS Feudal as Bobik always says - what about the ability to gain serfs and guards over time?

I know, I know - NO NPCS blah blah...yes but hear me out.
NPCs (aside from server stability issues which is a real possible issue but can be possibly avoided by my plan here) are not inherently bad, it depends on WHAT THEY DO.


---------------
SERFS
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since Life is Feudal, we need serfs. Right now a group of 10 guys rules/labors by themselves in massive castles and villages...which just feels empty half the time.

WHERE WOULD THEY COME FROM?

My proposal would be that once you put down a monument, it starts "attracting" serfs at a slow rate. They appear through the monument UI and you can assign them to tasks - like manning the blacksmith shop or the stables, etc.

WHAT WOULD THEY DO?

Once assigned, they would appear as an NPC figure in that location as a part of that building basically...so they aren't walking around your village causing server issues...they are literally a version of the building model...and they just kinda stand there and hammer or whatever...but it adds a little movement and sound to your village. In addition, when assigned to a building like a blacksmith or something - they could maybe do mundane tasks, like if you throw a bunch of logs in the forge, they could turn it into charcoal for you....or maybe their only mechanical application is a minor bonus to productivity when you do the tasks, like you get 15 charcoal instead of 10 from something.

WHAT WOULD THEY COST?

In return for this, you'd have to keep a stock of food available (again through part of the monument UI probably) for them, and if it ran out they would stop working. This is good because it would increase the need and usefulness of food and cooking - as well as possibly urging groups to have more farmland or rewarding them for having more as they could use more serfs...which is much more realistic and gives more pros to living on flatter, more farm-ready lands.

Perhaps they would also need some form of housing....like little low long huts called "serf quarters" that would house like 5 serfs each or something. And outside each serf quarter as part of the model of the building could be a woman and a child or something just kinda standing around moving slightly...again adding a "village" feel to your establishment you are the ruling group over (this part is of course not essential)


---------------
GUARDS
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So guards would operate similarly, but with some differences.

WHERE WOULD THEY COME FROM AND WHAT WOULD THEY COST?
To hire guards, you would go to the monument UI where the serfs appeared over time and instead of assigning one to a building you would instead turn it into a guard. Guards would also require food/housing as described in the serf section, but they would also require currency of some kind (gold/silver/copper coins or something) in the monument UI where the serfs/guards eat from. If the food or currency allocated to them runs out, the guards will stop working.

WHAT WOULD THEY DO?

Once serfs were turned into guards, they could be assigned to a tower or gatehouse or keep, and they would appear at that building.

A tower guard would be an archer or crossbowman (what kind of weapon depends on monument level) with a short sword or ax or something, and light armor. They would stand on that building and not leave it, firing arrows at intruders and fighting them in melee if they got close. That's it. Again - they would not leave their assigned tower (in an effort to reduce glitches/server issues).

Guards assigned to gatehouses would have better melee weapons and heavier armor (what again depends on monument level) and they would stand either on the inside or the outside of the gate and defend it...they would be basically immobile in that they could not leave the square (or few squares area) they were attached to.

Guards assigned to a keep would do the same thing but at the door of the keep.

* There would need to be a couple settings in the monument UI about how guards behave...like whether they attack on sight or not.

WON'T THEY BE TOO STRONG?
The effectiveness of guards (and their gear) would be determined by the monument level as mentioned, but not matter the monument level they are **NOT** intended to be a powerful force that could stop any serious attack. Higher level guards might be a deterrent to one or two attackers, and guards might help a defensive force a little....but no, they will not hold your base for you against any real attack.

--------------------------------------------
MONUMENT ADVANCEMENT
---------------------------------------------

In the case of both serfs and guards, they would give another reason to upgrade your monument as high level monuments would attract more serfs at a faster rate and when turned into guards they would be better than guards from lower level monuments. There would be a total number of serfs/guards you can have of course, determined by your monument level.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
SUMMARY
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Overall, the implementation of serfs and guards as described above would add life to the game and to the player establishments, as well as add more emphasis on things like food and farming and upgrading one's monument. These additions would make the settlements feel more alive and less like 10 guys ruling over nothing.

The implementation of these NPC's would *NOT* impede on the player run dynamics of the game in any way. As merely additions to the existing buildings, they only impact the game mechanics in small ways - in the case of serfs through a bonus to production of that building, in the case of guards through a little passive defense for your settlement (but again, not very strong so easily overcome on their own).

Also, as only additions to the existing buildings and not free roaming NPCs, they should be "somewhat feasible" from a coding/network stability standpoint. Free roaming guards and serfs in your village would create ALL KINDS of problems for the servers and glitches etc...but with them fixed to their assigned location (building, tower, etc) they should be feasible to implement.

----------------------------------------------------

Would love to know thoughts on this, especially if they are not "NO NPCS DUR!". Devs are already going back on the no npc thing with where the wildmen and swamp women thing is headed....and the NPCS I am proposing would add "life" to the game without diminishing the player run environment.

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Elindor
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Re: - Serfs and Guards -

Post by Elindor » 08 May 2017, 15:58

Some people have mentioned they like the NPC serfs/villagers idea but not the guards.

I can understand that, and I agree that even if they didn't do guards, that NPC serfs around the village would be nice for life/immersion in your castle.

Even if they were part of the model they belonged to like I originally posted - which would cut down on server/glitch issues.

Someone hammering in the blacksmith, cooking in the kitchen, moving hay in the stables, etc...looking at the shelves in the warehouse.

And these would all have no hitboxes so they didn't cause issues.


Reapo
 
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Re: - Serfs and Guards -

Post by Reapo » 08 May 2017, 22:34

Petrk wrote:
JTCrowder1 wrote:Just go find a survival rpg you like.

There are plenty of competitors out there that have more content than this shovel simulator.



Give me one. I am searching for some games like this but most is total crap.



Look up kingdoms


sunleader
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Re: - Serfs and Guards -

Post by sunleader » 13 May 2017, 13:23

I agree with the Suggestion.
Albeit you forgot Guards also need Equipment.
NPCs should never gain you free stuff aside from minimal rag clothes they had on them when arriving at your settlement.
If they die they can be looted and are dead meaning you need to get a new settler first.



I know many are against NPCs. But we also need to be realistic here.
No Guild will ever come to such numbers that they have an actual population for a city 24 hours a day.
So if we dont add NPCs this Game like all others of this kind will be a gathering of Ghost Towns thats empty for 16 of 24 hours.

We also need more NPC Enemies.
If there is only players to fight for most part.
It will not only be a pure arena where the whole crafting part will cease to exist.
It will also mean 9 out of 10 castles you build will be raided without you even being there cause you aint online 24 hours a day....


I think however the most easy solution would be that every player effectively has 2 characters.
One would be the Player himself.
The second an Copy of the Player Character which represents the Player while he is offline.
The NPC you would be assigned to any of the Structures owned by you or your Settlement with the Order of Guard or Work.
If set to Guard he will Guard it from Thiefs and Bandits.
If set to work he will Produce something there. (Only low tier ressources and at much slower pace than if active as player)

The NPC You would be equipped seperately as he also loses that Equipment if he is killed.
But would not lose any stats etc if killed.
If he is killed he has to be respawned next day by the player.

That would give a great way to have actual population without going overly NPC after all you always only have as many NPCs as you got Players.


Add some basic ai that NPC Guards rush to any Guild/Player owned Structure or NPC/Player that is Attacked or Looted within the influence zone of your claimed land. And a Castle will actually be Defendable.




With no NPCs this Game will be dead in less ghan a Year because you will have no Villages due to Villages just being Razed by a few Bandits when nobody is online. And no Guild will ever have enough Players to mount defenses 24 hours a day anyways.
Even if you assume 8 hour shifts 5 days a week with you deciding who plays when. You need 5 People to have 1 guy online at all times reliably.
But not everyone will do an 8 hour shift 5 days a week. Much less at an time set by you.
More realistic is people playing for about 3-5 hours a day at their own shedule.
So you need about 50 to 80 people all around the Globe to provide maybe 2 people online at all times.
The idea of Villages or Castles just cannot work without NPCs
Pls dont kill this Game by making it an Empty and Dead PvP Arena. The niche of players is so incredible small that it hardly supports one such game. And we already got 10 or so on the Market....


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Re: - Serfs and Guards -

Post by Cirdo » 28 May 2017, 10:59

Guards can be easy RP implemented by adding new building "Guards house". That building will allow you to hire 3-5 guards. Because those NPCs need to "live, sleep and eat" somewhere. Also add storage to that house where players will need to store (only) food for guards. That food will gradualy disapear or make it like monuments and sacrifice food for guards.


sunleader
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Re: - Serfs and Guards -

Post by sunleader » 28 May 2017, 12:52

Cirdo wrote:Guards can be easy RP implemented by adding new building "Guards house". That building will allow you to hire 3-5 guards. Because those NPCs need to "live, sleep and eat" somewhere. Also add storage to that house where players will need to store (only) food for guards. That food will gradualy disapear or make it like monuments and sacrifice food for guards.


Oh I like this.
Pls dont kill this Game by making it an Empty and Dead PvP Arena. The niche of players is so incredible small that it hardly supports one such game. And we already got 10 or so on the Market....

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Hallegra
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Re: - Serfs and Guards -

Post by Hallegra » 19 Jul 2017, 18:38

Even if guard maintenance/patrol is too difficult, just a dude moving boxes in a warehouse or sitting on a bench would be lovely. No practical effects. A guard walking in circles at the top of a gatehouse that just adds life.


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Re: - Serfs and Guards -

Post by Matheryn » 12 Nov 2017, 10:21

id be all for serf that can be hired as guards for your property and you could train them other than that the serfs would go about there own business and do there own things with no other forced labour from the player

this would also mean that if you wanted them you would have to build a new type of House - NPC hovel - on your claim to be able to attract them to begin with

Immersion wise yes they would make the place feel more livelier but I wouldn't want to go as far as make them replace the Player

In terms of making it feel more lively and to hire and train them as weak guards is pretty much the only thing I could think of a good use for them

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