Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Grimmblut]

Hi,

since the quality of items crafted with the Forging or Armorsmithing skill are capped at 60 (iron) or 80 (steel), the wiki can't be used anymore to calculate the resulting quality of such items. It's not just that the linear function is damped to 60% or 80%, but it has become non-linear because some undocumented factor(s) are now included.

Could you please tell us how the final quality of such items are calculated now so that we can update the wiki accordingly?

[Arrakis]

It's not so hard to calculate. If you reach 90+ quality item calculated by the old formula you will get 60,80 or 100 quality item. For instance, if you craft from iron, you need all good quality components to reach 90q and then after "cap system" you will get 60q item. 90+ "old formula" quality from steel provide 80q item etc

And there were actually no new factors included. It remains as it was - quality of the material, quality of the device/tool, character skill level.

[Grimmblut]

Hi Arrakis,

first let me thank you that you took your time to answer my question. I know that a lot of questions are asked here and I really appreciate that you try to answer mine.

Nevertheless, I fail to find consistency between the data from my tests on my guild's testserver and your answer.

I've created a character with "Forging" 100. I've then build a Q100 forge and anvil (durability 20.000, which was repaired back to 20.000 after each single forging process) and made a Q100 blacksmith's hammer. I started to craft crucible and tongs with different materials of different quality (Q20, Q40, Q60, Q80, iron, steel, vostaskus).

The final quality of crucible and tongs is calculated with this formula: 50% quality of the ingot, 30% skill level, 10% quality of the forging device, 10% quality of the blacksmith's hammer.

As an example, to show my calculations step by step, I calculate the expected quality of crucible and tongs crafted from a Q20 iron ingot:

(ingot) 20/100*50 +
(skill) 100/100*30 +
(forging device) 100/100*10 +
(hammer) 100/100*10
= 10+30+10+10 = 60

The resulting quality should be 60.

The results from my tests are (expected quality calculcated by the formular in parentheses):

Q20 iron => 35 (60)
Q20 steel => 46 (60)
Q20 vostaskus => 58 (60)

Q40 iron => 42 (70)
Q40 steel => 57 (70)
Q40 vostaskus => 71 (70)

Q60 iron => 51 (80)
Q60 steel => 68 (80)
Q60 vostaskus => 85 (80)

Q80 iron => 60 (90)
Q80 steel => 80 (90)
Q80 vostaskus => 100 (90)

Your answer explains why the Q80 vostaskus steel leads to the production of a Q100 item and why the other items, that were crafted with Q80 ingots, were capped at 60 or 80 respectively. I can't see how it explains any other test result though. What puzzles me the most is that Q20 vostaskus steel results in a value (58) below the expected value (60), but Q60 vostaskus steel results in a value (85) above the expected value (80). That's why I used the term "non-linear". If the quality of the ingot would have a stronger impact in the formular, then that would explain why the effective quality of the item crafted with a Q20 ingot was dragged down (towards 20). But there is no linear function that explains how, at the same time, the effective quality of an item crafted from a Q60 ingot gets boosted above the expected value of 80. It should be dragged towards the quality of the ingot, which is 60, not pushed away from it towards 85.

[Davis105]

You raise a totally accurate point (You've also explained it well). From my very limited knowledge of programming I think this will end up coming down to a mathematical syntax within their scripting. Because as you've said it doesn't make sense why it ends up being 58 instead of 60 or just slightly above, where as in Q40 and Q80 it does.

I presume from the information you've given that like I said above the forumla changes for some reason based on a variable I can't seem to identify. If I had to take a guess, I'd say the cap they've put on the item quality based on Iron, Steel or Volaskus has effected the forumla in an unexpected way.

[Gruber]

(ingot) 20/100*50 +
(skill) 100/100*30 +
(forging device) 100/100*10 +
(hammer) 100/100*10
= 10+30+10+10 = 60

This calculation is missing the max quality material effect.

In your calculation you got 60% from iron max q60 wich is 100%.

material cap / 100 * your results = result based on material cap

If you calculate it that way, it matches pretty much the results for your Q20 and Q40 tests. Numbers drifting apart for Q60 and Q80.


(ingot) 20/100*50 +
(skill) 100/100*30 +
(forging device) 100/100*10 +
(hammer) 100/100*10
= 10+30+10+10 = 60
= 60 / 100 * 60 = 36

Steel
(ingot) 20/100*50 +
(skill) 100/100*30 +
(forging device) 100/100*10 +
(hammer) 100/100*10
= 10+30+10+10 = 60
= 80 / 100 * 60 = 48


May not be the actual used formular, but would explain the difference between the old calculation without material cap and the in game results.

[Grimmblut]

If you calculate it that way, it matches pretty much the results for your Q20 and Q40 tests.

I don't know what your definition of "matches pretty much" is, but it's certainly not mine.

Values without parantheses or brackets: Current ingame value
Values in parantheses: Result of official formular
Values in brackets: Result of damped official formular

Q20 iron => 35 (60) [36]
Q20 steel => 46 (60) [48]
Q20 vostaskus => 58 (60) [60]

Q40 iron => 42 (70) [42]
Q40 steel => 57 (70) [56]
Q40 vostaskus => 71 (70) [70]

Q60 iron => 51 (80) [48]
Q60 steel => 68 (80) [64]
Q60 vostaskus => 85 (80) [80]

Out of nine tests, only one test result matches the result of the damped official formular. The deviation between the other test results and the damped official formular vary from 1 to 5 (!) points. That's a deviation of up to 5.88%, definitely not what I'd call "matches pretty much". Furthermore, the damping theory doesn't explain why the largest deviation happen with vostaskus, where no damping should take place (damping multiplier = 1). The most important thing is that both the official formular and the damped official formular can't be explained by Arrakis' version of how it is intended to be.

I side with Davis105 on this one: It seems that we're talking about a bug and not an undocumented feature.

[Gwenhyfar]

Could you please tell us how the final quality of such items are calculated now so that we can update the wiki accordingly?

If you go to the wiki page on Forging, you'll note section 3.2 has the documented information on this topic. The formula presented isn't 100% perfect but certainly much better than using just the percentage formula with the material specific quality caps.

[Gruber]

Out of nine tests, only one test result matches the result of the damped official formular.

I never saw a offical formular, neither here in the forum nor on wiki could i find the real calculation. Wiki got only calculations with whole numbers, wich is not matching ingame calculation in every point.

Where do you find the "offical" formular.