Mark-holt wrote:The core essence of Rust is raiding. So in your mind, what else are people doing other than base building and raiding? Maybe there are some servers that are just base building with no raiding allowed.
I've done my best to be patient in this conversation because it's always possible you can come across somebody who is willing to have an open conversation without bringing their agenda into it. You've made some good points, though the condescending comments inadvertently reduce the credibility of your points. However, I see an adamant stance that there is no way this will work going as far as attributing base destruction as the reason these game drop in player base.
As stated before, huge drops in player base is completely normal. Very rarely does a games playerbase increase or maintain the same level since release. Rust is one example I can think of but I'm sure there are a few more. To then attribute drops in player base to the fact that bases can be destroyed to fit your agenda, leads me to wonder what other points you have left out.
In an open conversation, we take other points and entertain different ideas. Rather than outright reject them, we work on them to make them better. I'm sure you're not like most people online who just stick with their belief without entertaining other ideas. And then imply the person you disagree with is ignorant.
I can understand why some people prefer the idea of 5-10 man guilds being invulnerable. And we will always have servers for the more peaceful and loving. For those who prefer to PVE most of their game time and have a choice when to PVP.
Now we've already seen suggestions from you on the PVE side and I understand that you're primarily a PVE player. You're more than capable of suggesting ways to retain players on the PVP side. So I've suggested increasing the speed in base building and doubling number of resources acquired or maybe reducing resources required to build things. What suggestions would you have?
As I said Mate.
Different Game Design.
Games like DayZ and Rust are from the get go much more Combat Oriented.
Bases are much faster and easier to Build.
A Single Player can Build nearly everything alone.
Your losses when the Base is Destroyed are Minimal and so are the Losses when you are Killed.
Because the Server is usually Wiped soon after again.
Your in Essence Comparing Age of Empires 1 with Anno 1602
And this cannot work. Because one Game is laid out to provide a War/combat Match of about 2 Hours.
And the other Game is laid out to Provide an Economic Match that takes about 20-50 Hours.
Sure Both Games allow you to Build up an Economy.
And Both Games allow you to go to War.
But the Scale is Shifted here Tremendously.
In Anno 1602 about 95% of your Time goes into Building and Managing your Economy. And War is an Option for you to get something you want from the other Player. But its not the Primary Goal of the Game.
Age of Empires however is all about War. Every Single Ressource and Building either Provides Units for War or Provides Ressources to Build Units for War.
90% of it is about War. And the Economy Part is solely to Fuel the War.
Life is Feudal. Is by its MMO Settings Clearly the Anno in this Example.
Because lets Face it. You need Tier 4 Crafting Skills just to get Basic Weapons and Armor for Fighting.
You Spend 4 Weeks in the Game before your even able to actually Fight as the smallest possible Rank in a Battle.
And the Consequences of Losing are Tremendous.
Especially if you are Criminal or Evil.
Its Fairly Obvious. That in this Game.
Battles and War are Meant Solely as an Optional Event to take something by Force or Establish your Dominance.
They are NOT Intended to Remove other Players from the Game.
So Allowing Players to Destroy Town Claims is simply not really making Sense.
Thats a Difficult Question Mate.
You Say I am Adamant about it.
But I could just Say your Adamant about not Accepting this Fact.
So Far nothing you Said has even remotely Convinced me to Question my Knowledge in this Matter.
There has so far not been any Argument or Reasoning that would have given me a Reason to even Consider my Stance.
This is not Surprising either.
Because you See.
My Argument is that from the nearly 2 Decades worth of Experience I have Seen Games Do what you Suggest and basicly Die within 1 or 2 Years afterwards EVEN IF they decided to revert course after a few Months. Because Players Lost their Stuff and then Quit the Game for Good never Returning.
And heres the thing.
Your Argument so far. Is that "hey it might be different this time. Lets test it"
You have yet to give me any Solid Reasoning as to why it should possibly go different.
“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results”.
Your Examples of Rust and DayZ are fine in itself. But they are simply not Importand here. Because they are an entirely Different Game Genre.
Of course PvP protection for your Base or Character makes no Sense in a Counterstrike Game.
But this aint Counterstrike
In DayZ you need a few Hours to be Setup and maybe another few Hours to have a Solid Base.
If you get Destroyed you are done for the Round. You wait for the Wipe (next round) and Play again.
But see thats the thing.
There is no Next Round in LiF MMO.
If you get Destroyed and your are done for the Round. Then this in LiF MMO means Goodbye Game because your done with the Game.
Well the Problem here is actually a bit Different.
You See Mate.
Your making this Suggestion. And then make Additional Suggestions to level out or Fix the Problems that I say your Suggestion will Result in.
But I think the Importand Bit is a bit different here.
I am Arguing from a Viewpoint that I want to Keep Life is Feudal as the Hardcore Sandbox RPG and Building Game it is.
And I am of course assessing all your Statements in this Viewpoint.
But your Viewpoint is entirely Different.
You actually want to Change this Game to be more like Rust or DayZ.
You want to Change this Game into an PvP Arena where the Main Focus of the Game. Is not an Hardcore Sandbox RPG.
But more of an PvP Sandbox Survival Game.
You want PvP to basicly be the thing of the Game.
Right now. A Guild City is a Giant Building Project which will take Weeks just on the Building Part and will actually take Months to Develop step by step together with the Economy of the Guild which is Growing in its Center.
We are Playing a Game similar to Anno.
Where War between Factions is Possible as an Means to get an Ressource Point or something.
But where the Actual Game is about Building up your Empire with production Chains and a Large Central City to Support your Empire.
What you want however. Is that Guild Cities are not a Building Project that Grows with the Economy of the Guild over Months of Play.
You want a Guild City to be an Fortress that can be thrown up in maybe a Week and whose Sole Purpose it is to Serve as a Battle Ground.
What you want is Age of Empires. Where basicly everything is just a Means to Fuel the War and PvP Fights.
This could work of course.
If you Reworked the Entire Game to that End. You could have this Game as a Giant PvP Arena.
You would need to Greatly Reduce Grinding Times and Building Times by a Factor of 10 or more.
You would need to Greatly Reduce Skill Learning Times. Especially on the Combat Skills. So Players can Reach or even Choose Classes very Fast and then get into Battle.
And you would need to completely Rework the Crafting and Skill System in General. To make Equipment and Weapons Available very Fast. And where Ressources are not Forcibly Required but instead are Optional and Provide Bonusses.
For example by Requiring a Special Ressource to Produce Steel Weapons and thus have only Limited Spots on the Map that can Produce Steel thus forcing others which only got Iron to Fight for these Spots.
You would need to Reduce Losses on Death to a Minimum and make Buildings really Cheap.
Most of all you would need to Change the Game Tremendously towards Regular Server Wipes so you dont end up with one All Powerful Guild which will just Bash all Newcomers down from the Server.
etc etc etc
This would be an entirely Different Game.
This would not be Life is Feudal.
There is already Some Life is Feudal Your Own Servers which are in Fact Playing like this.
By removing Death Penalty etc etc etc.
But they are pretty Dead.
Because for this Genre there is as said above Far Better Games out there.