Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Nazeef]

Dear developers, we chose Epleland because we don't like JH, although it doesn't mean we don't like PvP, as you, obviously, thought when you added weird PvE tag to RP one - destruction of cities is good when it comes through proper war which leads to a claim reduction - that's why we asked you to revert the totems damage nerf (https://lifeisfeudal.com/forum/petition-to-revert-the-totems-damage-nerf-for-epleland-t35915/) (but you didn't listen - Vox Populi!)

Please finally pay attention to our server and find another way to make outposts, derelicted guilds and influence zones work.

As for my suggestions, I think Eplelend can be easily revived by "Light-JH" mechanics - JH which allows to conquer outposts, destroy private claims in influence zone and derelicted guilds, but not realm claim objects destruction. And town claim access protection should be switched off, of course, it kills RP.

Please bump this topic to keep it on top.

[Srubsaite1]

No JH!!

[Crixius]

I think Nazeef doesn't want JH because he currently doesn't have the manpower to protect all of his troll claims and his main claim, the root of all evil.

I voted yes by the way, just because I don't care and it makes me moist when I see you screetching for help.

[Nazeef]

I think Nazeef doesn't want JH because he currently doesn't have the manpower to protect all of his troll claims and his main claim, the root of all evil.

I voted yes by the way, just because I don't care and it makes me moist when I see you screetching for help.

Thank you for the bumping. You can check it right now by placing an IB on any of them.

Once again, destruction of cities is good when it comes through proper war which leads to a claim reduction. Outposts capturing is OK too, maybe there should be a special time period for that. Possibility to destroy any realm claim in the world without doing anything for that - not OK.

[Arebon]

Cry babys like you are the reson why this game die! when you want your peacfull game, make your own ruleset on LIF:YO, the MMO was made with full pvp, that was the reson why we had so good playerpool at the start, then all the crybabys came and destroed it! because the devs listent to you! SHAME on it! and now, most of the cry babys are gone, and the playerbase who liked the game as it was at the start too!
bring it back to good pvp and mybe they will come back!

[Nazeef]

Cry babys like you are the reson why this game die! when you want your peacfull game, make your own ruleset on LIF:YO, the MMO was made with full pvp, that was the reson why we had so good playerpool at the start, then all the crybabys came and destroed it! because the devs listent to you! SHAME on it! and now, most of the cry babys are gone, and the playerbase who liked the game as it was at the start too!
bring it back to good pvp and mybe they will come back!

Thank you for the bumping. Please read my posts again very carefully - I am not against PvP at all, I just don't like JH - this is weird mechanic which lead to server full of town-claim-cities only. We already have 5 servers with JH and free character transfer between them, there is no point to make another one.

There are ways to have PvP without JH - make outposts conquerable & increase battle totems damage.

[MaroonFrog]

Cry babys like you are the reson why this game die! when you want your peacfull game, make your own ruleset on LIF:YO, the MMO was made with full pvp, that was the reson why we had so good playerpool at the start, then all the crybabys came and destroed it! because the devs listent to you! SHAME on it! and now, most of the cry babys are gone, and the playerbase who liked the game as it was at the start too!
bring it back to good pvp and mybe they will come back!

I will tell you a secret. Epleland was made especially so the carebears and crybabies like me could go there and sit in their corner not disturbing the mighty and scary players on Avalon. /s

Do you know what will happen if Eple gets JH? We will do what we do best. Cry. A lot. And do you know what the devs will do when they hear it? A hint: remember the bark box removal fiasco?

Safe and secure Epleland is in the best interest of PVP players on all other servers.

[Satisfyme]

To be honest, then Epleland is an RP server and not an PVP server.

RP servers can have PVP in them as well, but it should not be something you just can do with just JH since there is not really any consequences for doing so.

Now I know there are people out there thinking that the people saying no to JH on Epleland is just trying to hide on the server, but the fact is we don't. We just want to do it in a more RP friendly way and those that are against that should really consider if the RP server is for them, since there is servers like Avalon that is PVP servers and are intended for that and not an RP server.

I don't mind doing PVP on Epleland but it should be an new type of mechanic other than just turning on JH again.

I mean, I'm against JH on Epleland, but if there is absolutely no way around it, then I would rather it had it's own totally new mechanic, like this suggestion for a way that I think would be more interesting way of doing it if we had no other options:

• First of, no other world servers can interact with this meaning they cant just jump over and help as they pleases. Best option would be to turn off the free character transfer to the RP servers so the only way to trade across servers is through Trade Posts. (Yes I know I'll be hated for this, but I see no other options)
  
• As far as I know, we already have IB on Epleland and it already overpowered for an RP server like this, but for now, just leave it as is.
  
• Once IB is not effective anymore, meaning Monument is down to T1 the guild that puts the monument down to T1 can issue an Claim War declaration. The Claim War declaration can only be issued if you are at war with the guild you are issuing the Claim War declaration on and any allies that are helping in the Claim War needs to be at war with that guild as well for at least 1 week.
  
• Once the Claim War declaration is issued, the guild that is attacked, will have the option to set what time that take over battle is going to be in the next 24-48 hours (leaving 24 hours to go by where both teams can prepare)
  
• An twist to the first 24 hours is that the attacking guild will be going into and semi JH but that only the guild that are attacked can do, with limited invited allies as well. (I believe that's basically how IB is working atm)
  This is to make sure that the attacking guild knows that they can't just do an Claim War without any consequences and that there is a possibility that others can interrupt there plans.
  
• Once the first 24 hours are over and the the time has come to do the Claim War battle, the Claim War continues until either one of the sides put up the white flag to surrender or one of the teams are taken out totally (Meaning no respawn for anyone)
  Note: Surrendering can only be done by the guild leaders, so if he is killed first, the surrender option is not available!
  
• Once the Claim War battle is done, things are handled based on the outcome of the battle:
  
  • If the attacker wins by killing all defenders they have the following options to take:
    
    1. Pillage: They can have full access to the city for 3 hours to loot anything they want but they are not allowed to destroy any buildings, like the guild monument and will have to leave after that.
       
    2. Takeover: The defenders will have 1 hour to leave the guild claim. Once they leave the guild claim in that first hour, they can't go back in again. This means that they have 1 hour to decide what they want to take with them in there inventory.
       Once the hour is gone the guild monument will be destroyed and the attackers ca do whatever they want with the area.
       The Defenders will be immune to any attacks (Except for PVE Animals) for 6 hours.
       
  • If the defenders surrenders, the attackers have the following options:
    
    1. Pillage: Same as if attackers kills everyone, except they only have 30 min to pillage before having to leave.
       
    2. Takeover: The defenders will have 24 hour to leave the guild claim. This means that they have 24 hour to decide what they want to take with them in there inventory and a cart.
       Once the 24 hour is gone the guild monument will be destroyed and the attackers ca do whatever they want with the area.
       The Defenders will be immune to any attacks (Except for PVE Animals) for the duration of the takeover.
       
    3. Diplomacy: The Attackers and the defenders can make an agreement to leave the defenders alone but for an cost, like the defenders would have to provide a certain amount of stuff each week for a period of 4 weeks or so.
       Failure to deliver in time will destroy the Guild Monument and the defending guild will not be able to put down a new monument in that area for the next 24 hours.
       
  • If the defenders wins by killing all attackers, the attackers Guild Monument will go down one tier.
    If the Guild is a Vassal of another guild, both Guild will go down one tier.
    If the Guild is a kingdom all Vassal Guilds will go down one tier
    
  • If the defenders wins by attackers surrendering, the defenders have the following options:
    
    1. Lose Land Influence: This means that the attackers Guild Monument will go down one tier. Since they surrendered, no Vassal or Kingdom guild will be effected in the monument tier drop.
       
    2. Diplomacy: The Attackers and the defenders can make an agreement to leave unharmed by the defenders but for an cost, like the attackers would have to provide a certain amount of stuff each week for a period of 4 weeks or so.
       Failure to deliver in time will lower the attackers Guild Monument by 2 tiers and will also lower any Vassal or Kingdom guild monuments by 1 tier. If any of the guilds are T1 then there guild monument get's destroyed
       
• After the outcome have been decided, the attacking Guild cant issue a new Claim War declaration for 2 days.
  
• The defending guild will be immune to Claim War declaration for 5 days.

---

Now in my opinion the real problem is not really the guild claims, but the Outposts. They are growing in an exponential way, since there is no limit to them as far as I have seen and they are taking up space for new guild claims and if it continues as is atm, Epleland will only have a few big guilds and a billion op's and there is no room for new guild monuments.
For me the only real way to handle that is limit how many OP's a guild can have, like a T1 monument don't have the power to make any op's.
T2 can make 1 OP's
T3 can make 5 OP's
T4 can make 15 OP's
By doing the above we even eliminate the need for JH even more.

---

Now I have said my peace about it and are just waiting to be slaughtered by haters and people from my guild XD

[Netresca]

Greetings ...

I think the JH would be the end for Epleland as it is ... there would be no difference anymore between Epleland, Skjutland and Avalon, maybe the difference would be the amount of JHs.

When the major update was announced ... every or a lot of guilds have been afraid of JH and started to build a wall at the claimborder ... since then ... you nearly have no chance to get in contact with those guilds. JH or even the fear that epleland get one destroyed a lot of things epleland should stand for.

The most "towns" are build only for pvp, with nearly no chance to enter and visit them. Having no contact like discord you can't play the game anymore. With JH this will be the end for RP guilds or players who don't want to life inside a prison

Thats my opinion, and I hope that the DEVs will find other possibilities to solve THEIR problems. Sure the outposts should be changed ... they could be deleted completly.

Now, with outposts ... i would be enough to log in once every day ... collect everything from the outposts and go offline ... you don't have to work for your materials anymore ... this sucks ... especially if you don't want to build as many outposts as you can ... like some guilds.

Destroy every outpost and leave only some for every guild like Satisfyme suggests.

But i thing 15 for T$ claims would be too much ... why not

T1 - none
T2 - one or two
T3 - 4
T4 - maybe 5 or 6

[Roebeck]

I say NO to the POLLS:

At the moment it's like only 10% of the release players are still playing. So the polls reach only that 10% of the customers. It does not matter what we vote, because the result is in no way representative.

And I say NO to BITBOX:

The poll about JH on Epleland shows that BitBox has no idea where this game should go. They seem to plan from one month to the next, then throw everything overboard and start all over again. First they split the 10,000 player world into several servers. Then they offered a chargeable character transfer, only to make it for free a few weeks later. And then there was this mysterious NPC trailer, we never heard anything more about...

The last update brought the outposts to Epleland. You can only destroy outposts during a Judgment hour. The community pointed this out before the update was released. Now, a few weeks later, there's no room left on Epleland. These polls are another example of BitBox's arbitrarines. I say get ready for anything. Some time ago they said, that there will never be a wipe... I wouldn't bet.

There is no concept for the MMO.
I no longer have confidence in Bitbox.

[RorikOneEye]

Don't remember anyone even using RP on Epleland in a looooong time ! People are +unts just becouse there is no mechanic preventing them to be one! They can just tell u to duck off and there is nothing u can do about it! No punishment for bad politics ,or bad decisions ( which should be RP'd and its is not ) So yea I guess nice JH now and then would bring in some stability

[Lumberjack]

I am strongly against any form of JH on Epleland, but at the same time, I realize the war mechanics needs to be revised.

I would like to see something like that:

1. Guild A declares war on Guild B. After 1 hour they can kill members of Guild B with impunity.
2. Guild B has 24 hours to respond to the DoW. If they decide to go to war, BOTH guilds lose any protection from each other, as long as at least two players are active (+30 minutes after logout). If Guild B refuses war, they lose honour (alignment for ALL members cut down by 50%). Guild A can only kill members of guild B with no penalty and raid Realm Claim, as long as they keep DoW active. Guild B follows normal rules.
3. While at war claim upkeep increases geometrically.
4. Mutual war only ends when BOTH parties agree to a truce.


Instead of an arbitrary limit on the number of outposts, each guild should get 1 free outpost per tier plus 0.1 free outposts per member. Each outpost above the limit would double the taxman bill.

Do you want to run 15 outposts as a one-man-guild? Fine, as long as you can afford 15 gold coins per day.

[sunleader]

Cry babys like you are the reson why this game die! when you want your peacfull game, make your own ruleset on LIF:YO, the MMO was made with full pvp, that was the reson why we had so good playerpool at the start, then all the crybabys came and destroed it! because the devs listent to you! SHAME on it! and now, most of the cry babys are gone, and the playerbase who liked the game as it was at the start too!
bring it back to good pvp and mybe they will come back!

The Reason this Game is Dying is because of Rude RPKs/Griefers like you which want to kill and destroy everything which then causes others to be Frustrated and Leave.


Fun Fact for you.
Last Month for the First Time since Launch.
This Game Finally managed to gain more Active Players than they lost.
All Thanks to listening to Cry Babies like us which want to Enjoy the Game without Annoyances like you.


Good PvP ????
Whats Good PvP to you.
And whats hindering you from getting Good PvP right now ?

Just for Reference. Good PvP to me is a Battle between PvP Players that are Armed and Trained for PvP and Enjoy Fighting each other.
And NOTHING is in any Way hindering this right now.
Right now you can Fight other PvP Players all you want by Challenging them.


But thats not whats Good PvP to you is it ?
To you the thing you call Good PvP is to Massacre Players that got neither the Equipment nor the Training to Fight Back.
To you the thing you call Good PvP is to Destroy Assets and Stuff from other Players that dont stand a Chance against you and your Friends in a Fight.

To you. Good PvP is the kind of PvP after which the Players Quit the Game in Frustration.
And then after the Player Numbers have been Rising a bit for the first Time since Launch you come in here claiming that the Game would be Dying now thanks to the Devs finally listening to us and preventing this Bullcrab ????

SHAME on YOU!

PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE A SHAME FOR ANY PLAYER THAT DOES HONORABLE PVP.

Because PEOPLE LIKE YOU are the Reason that New Players never even Learn PvP due to just being Massacred before they ever get far enough to really get Equipment and Learn how Fighting Works.
Because PEOPLE LIKE YOU are the Reason that Entire Smaller Guilds are Quitting the Game in Frustration after Losing their small Village they took 2 Weeks to Build up and which never even got far enough to Stand the Slightest Chance against a Full Attack from an RPK Guild.



Thanks to the Devs doing Green Servers and making Claims Safe. This Game is Finally going upwards again even if its just Slowly.
And thanks to Free Server Transfers New Players Finally have the Chance to Build up their PvP Characters in relative Safety and then go and Try out PvP without them being Forced into it and then leaving Frustrated.




The Roleplaying Server had no JH. Many Players who went there Choose to go there due to it not having a JH.
People who wanted JH and PvP went to the Servers which had those.
We got 1 Red and 4 Green Worlds.
Take a guess why that is.

I.ll give you a Hint.
Its not because the Community is Craving to be RPKed and have their Buildings Destroyed....

[Jiminterweb]

"I have never prayed to you before, I have no time for it."

Ok, now that's out of the way, let me add my 2 cents/pence/yen to the thread.
The problem here is one which was pointed out when the outpost mechanic was 1st unveiled-that being sooner or later real estate in a green server would be lost.

1) You can't place a claim within the perimeter another claim OR OUTPOST.
2) You can't destroy an outpost or other claim due to no JH.


There are several methods of removing this problem. Bitbox are looking to use the easiest one, that being introducing JH to green servers-if this happens, I'm off, subscription cancelled and never again playing anything by this company.

Option 2 would be to rethink the outpost mechanic. They've been exceedingly lazy in how they've coded outposts, merely using the guild claim mechanic and transposing that onto OP's.

What they should have done is firstly introduce a different system for outposts, so rather than it being a requirement they be placed outside a guild claim, they should in fact be forced to place them inside the influence zone of that or another outpost, with the zone being 100-150 tiles from the monument or other outpost.
<edit> on this point, please put markers up for those diameters-this bullsh** of having to guesstimate where you can and can't place one is laughable...


Secondly, limit to the number of outposts. There have been several posts about how to do this; I'm in agreement with the limit being directly tied to the tier of monument and number of active accounts, not characters, in a guild. 1 more monument per account. Finally, have a cap on total OPs/guild.



Give people a chance to pick out the outposts they want to keep and delete the rest before making a change like this and then, once we see how it's going, look towards other methods.

Baby steps ffs. Like they should have done in the 1st place.

[Sunleader]

"I have never prayed to you before, I have no time for it."

Ok, now that's out of the way, let me add my 2 cents/pence/yen to the thread.
The problem here is one which was pointed out when the outpost mechanic was 1st unveiled-that being sooner or later real estate in a green server would be lost.

1) You can't place a claim within the perimeter another claim OR OUTPOST.
2) You can't destroy an outpost or other claim due to no JH.


There are several methods of removing this problem. Bitbox are looking to use the easiest one, that being introducing JH to green servers-if this happens, I'm off, subscription cancelled and never again playing anything by this company.

Option 2 would be to rethink the outpost mechanic. They've been exceedingly lazy in how they've coded outposts, merely using the guild claim mechanic and transposing that onto OP's.

What they should have done is firstly introduce a different system for outposts, so rather than it being a requirement they be placed outside a guild claim, they should in fact be forced to place them inside the influence zone of that or another outpost, with the zone being 100-150 tiles from the monument or other outpost.
<edit> on this point, please put markers up for those diameters-this bullsh** of having to guesstimate where you can and can't place one is laughable...


Secondly, limit to the number of outposts. There have been several posts about how to do this; I'm in agreement with the limit being directly tied to the tier of monument and number of active accounts, not characters, in a guild. 1 more monument per account. Finally, have a cap on total OPs/guild.



Give people a chance to pick out the outposts they want to keep and delete the rest before making a change like this and then, once we see how it's going, look towards other methods.

Baby steps ffs. Like they should have done in the 1st place.

Oh.
I actually like the Idea of the Influence Zone being where a Guild is Allowed to Place Outposts.
This would in Fact be a Great thing because it would make Territory very Valuable and worth Fighting over.

I think I.ll make a Full Suggestion on that.

(Gonna Post this Suggestion as Full Topic as well but here for anyone who cares to Read it.)
1.
Reduce the Outpost Minimum Distance to each other to about 50 Tiles.
2.
Outposts can only be Build inside your own Guilds Influence Zone.
3.
Outposts as they only get a Realm Claim can be Destroyed during JH.
But cannot be Conquered by JH.
4.
IBs will Allow Fighting for an Outpost. For that Purpose an Enemy Guild has to Place the IB into the Realm Claim of the Outpost.
If the IB is Won by the Defender nothing Changes.
If the IB is Won by the Attacker the Outpost will be Paying Tribute to the Other Guild for 1 Week until its returned to its Original Owner.
5.
Outposts will Change Owner when Battles move Borders of Guilds Influence Zones.
So if there is two Guilds Competing over an Influence Zone.
A Guild can Initiate a Battle using an IB to actually Conquer the Territory AND the Outpost Permanently.



This would in Fact be a Pretty Great Mechanic.
Especially because it would mean that you could Effectively Build Guard Posts on the outer Perimeter of your Influence Zone so they Protect your Guild Lands.
And then Build Ressource Producing Outposts in the Inner Perimeter of your Influence Zone just outside your Realm Claim to Extend your Realm Claim and to Produce Ressources.

Hell this System would be Awesome
It would not only completely Avoid the JH Problem.
It would actually even Add an Completely Logical and Meaningful PvP Opportunity.

[Azzerhoden]

But you are missing the point. The player population has dropped so severely that Bitbox is now 'listening to the community' for direction. This is never a good idea, and the gaming world is full of dead games where one group of players yelled louder than everyone else for a game to change direction, only to have the remaining player base leave once that change was implemented.

You'll notice that I am not referring to any particular game or mechanic, because it doesn't matter. PvP or anti-PvP. Easier leveling versus status quo. Becoming a Jedi is too hard to, well, you know.

That doesn't mean that adjustments shouldn't be made, but right now it seems bitbox is treating their MMO more like a player run YO server with an admin desperate to retain their player population, when in reality there are a host of features they should actively be working on that were promised long ago.

To summarize, players left because of bugs, exploits, and content that was never delivered. Addressing those issues is how to keep players logging in.

[Sunleader]

But you are missing the point. The player population has dropped so severely that Bitbox is now 'listening to the community' for direction. This is never a good idea, and the gaming world is full of dead games where one group of players yelled louder than everyone else for a game to change direction, only to have the remaining player base leave once that change was implemented.

You'll notice that I am not referring to any particular game or mechanic, because it doesn't matter. PvP or anti-PvP. Easier leveling versus status quo. Becoming a Jedi is too hard to, well, you know.

That doesn't mean that adjustments shouldn't be made, but right now it seems bitbox is treating their MMO more like a player run YO server with an admin desperate to retain their player population, when in reality there are a host of features they should actively be working on that were promised long ago.

To summarize, players left because of bugs, exploits, and content that was never delivered. Addressing those issues is how to keep players logging in.

Which is another Player Opinion that you Expect them to listen to

I agree that these Issues have a Hand.
But in General most Players can put up with Bugs and Missing Features for Years as long as they consider the Game to be Good.

The Big Problem to me in LiF MMO is actually the Lack of Combat.
You got a ton of Grind before you can even get Basic Combat Equipment like Cheap Armor and a Weapon.
And then you get another ton of Grind before you can get and use any proper Weapons and Armor.
And all of that is currently PvP Only. Which means that you are Forced to Fight People which already got all that and on top are more Trained in it than you. Meaning that as a Newcomer to PvP you seriously got no Chance whatsoever to do anything.

So to me the thing that should come First is in Fact NPC Enemies and NPC Shops in the City.
So you can Buy Equipment early on. And then use it against NPCs to actually learn how the Fighting even works.
Needless to say that its also giving people something to do when waiting for other things.


But See. This is my Opinion again
The Devs tried their Idea first. And apparently it did not work out how they wanted.
They now rowed back on some things by for example providing Servers with Safe Town Claims.
And well it might just be a little. But it actually helped to retain Playerbase Better.


I agree that listening to the most Vocal Group is not a Great Idea.
Thats why I welcome the Polls.
But I can also Agree with this Topic here.
Epleland should not get an JH.
it used to be without it so it should stay without it.

It is actually the best Populated among the Green Servers.
So apparently People like it that way.
And it does make sense to have Servers with Different Rulesets. Especially while this is still in Beta.

Because this way the Devs can Offer a Variety of Options and See what the Players like and what they avoid.

[Nazeef]

Congratulations, we won!

I changed topic name - feel free to write your ideas how you think JH-mechanics should work without JH (or they shouldn't?), let's wait until one day devs will pay attention to them.

[BericDondarrion1]

Congratulations, we won!

I changed topic name - feel free to write your ideas how you think JH-mechanics should work without JH (or they shouldn't?), let's wait until one day devs will pay attention to them.

I'm curious as to what you consider a "proper war"

[Sunleader]

Well.
They will need an Alternative Mechanic of Sorts for General Systems to work.

Then again its not like implementing a working mechanic is that hard.

One Simple way would be to just make it so that Outposts can be Conquered using an IB.

You place an IB on the Outposts Realm Claim.
And the Winner of the IB gets the Outpost.

This would mean that Outposts are Fought over in actual Battles without any JH being needed.



I am also always laughing a bit when people complain about Troll Claims.
Personal Claims outside a Guilds Influence Radius are rather easy to Delete.
Since you just need to set a Guild Monument Down and can then Delete it 2 days later when the Realm Claim touches it.

Especially for Larger Guilds providing an Guild with 10 Alts that can set down Guild Monuments for Sieges or to Conquer PCs is not exactly a hard thing to do.



Something that does need a Mechanic is the Town Claims.
On Elp they are 100% Safe which I am generally fine with.
But then they need to make sure that Guilds dont just set down 5 Guild Monuments blocking entire swaths of area off to others.

[Monco]

Guess what, massive layers of protection lead to massive exploits, we discovered hot water...
It's just terribly hard to protect players with game mechanics without having them being heavily exploited at the same time aswell.
We have tons of examples:
In Bobik's idea of town claim and realm claim people would build main stuff on the town claim and have minor stuff or forests and farms in the realm claim. What players did was just building multiple claims and having all on town claim so it's 100% safe.
Private claims, the idea behind it was to have them as a place for solo players, they turned to be massively exploited aswell, to make invulnerable trebuchets while sieging, to troll and grief enemy claims, to easily claim regional resources and so on.
Now Outposts on Epleland, 100% safe, massively exploited by guilds from other worlds to have safe and uninterrupted production, damaging overall economy in all worlds.
Disable outposts on green worlds or in Epleland at least because yet again we have massive protection leading to massive exploits which not only damage the ingame economy of all worlds but also makes no sense if outposts were to be player made PvP "hotspots" they have no place in that server because atm they can only be captuerd / destroyed during JH (that's what should make them an hotspot).
Another option would be to make Epleland a separate entity, a "rainbow" world, and forbid trade between Epleland and other servers.

[Sunleader]

Guess what, massive layers of protection lead to massive exploits, we discovered hot water...
It's just terribly hard to protect players with game mechanics without having them being heavily exploited at the same time aswell.
We have tons of examples:
In Bobik's idea of town claim and realm claim people would build main stuff on the town claim and have minor stuff or forests and farms in the realm claim. What players did was just building multiple claims and having all on town claim so it's 100% safe.
Private claims, the idea behind it was to have them as a place for solo players, they turned to be massively exploited aswell, to make invulnerable trebuchets while sieging, to troll and grief enemy claims, to easily claim regional resources and so on.
Now Outposts on Epleland, 100% safe, massively exploited by guilds from other worlds to have safe and uninterrupted production, damaging overall economy in all worlds.
Disable outposts on green worlds or in Epleland at least because yet again we have massive protection leading to massive exploits which not only damage the ingame economy of all worlds but also makes no sense if outposts were to be player made PvP "hotspots" they have no place in that server because atm they can only be captuerd / destroyed during JH (that's what should make them an hotspot).
Another option would be to make Epleland a separate entity, a "rainbow" world, and forbid trade between Epleland and other servers.

Nice Argument.
But meaningless.
Because if you got less protection people will exploit it the other way.
Old Guilds will just Annihilate any New Guilds befofe they ever pose a threat.
PvP Groups will simply not have a Town themselves and pillage everything without any risk of retribution.
Solo Players will never even get to a point where they can craft a Weapon because they just get farmed.


And Mate.
The Exploits you mentioned can all be fixed easily.
Or rather they should never have happened if the system had be tought out better.

Siege Weapons should be flagged as PvP Equipment thus always vulnearble regardless where it is.
Town Claims should from start have been most Expensive Costing like 50 points per Tile. While Realm Claim should cost like 5 points.
So Guilds rather use Realm Claim and Upgrade their Monument instead of building several small ones.
Outpost should not be JH stuff in the First Place. They should have been Conquereble by usin an IB. Because this would give Such Battles a Great Reason.


But thats why its a Early Access.
There will be Bugs.
There will be stuff that can be exploited.
Thats what you run such Early Access Tests for.

So you find and fix this stuff so it works properly when Game is Released.

[Monco]

Because if you got less protection people will exploit it the other way.
Old Guilds will just Annihilate any New Guilds befofe they ever pose a threat.

The current system is the problem, even in the RED server and it's due to OVERPROTECTIVE game mechanics for ALREADY ESTABLISHED GUILDS.
Small example, some time ago a coalition from Iriy tried to build and establish a Fort in a server in Avalon.
What happened was that the Iriy coalition was heavily targeted or "zerged" by the red "faction" since they used to be against them when some of their players used to play in Avalon, and they got support by the blue "faction" trying to defend their new T1 "fort".
They even hired some mercenaries to try to defend their claim.
So the point here is basically the current system has massive flaws and promotes massive zergs moving to a SINGOLAR location for action making servers unstable and laggy as hell leaving the player with a bad experience.
The current system promotes such thing simply because already established guilds (T2+ guilds) are overprotected by game mechanics, giving them the option to always be on the offensive and not having any possible negative effect in leaving their castle empty and undefended during JH, simply because everything is 100% safe in the town claim.

Now if the town claim would be more vulnerable such massive fully zerg attacks would be more dangerous since it would be risky to leave your castle empty, that's why i think Town claims should be at least fully lootable in the RED server (with the option to damage gates to half durability).

If you take the Iriy example, mercenaries would have probably been used differently, probably for a distraction in the red faction territory, and some blue faction guilds would have probably done the same, thus forcing the red faction to not only focus on one singular place but forcing them to SCATTER their forces in multiple places, contributing to have less loaded servers aswell even during important "sieges".

The current system simply doesn't work and has too many flaws, the massive protection it has within promotes the creation of only 2 factions at war with each others and fully support the zerg tactic.
The current system MASSIVELY LIMITS player made content and opportunities in a PvP scenario because of his own overprotection of established guilds.
A third faction, mercenaries or random raiders simply can't fully work beacuse of ingame limits due to overprotective game mechanics.

The focus with the current system will and will always be only ONE PLACE AT A TIME because the system itself supports it due to its limitations, secondary targets or distractions are not possible and that's limited content over here aswell.

PvP Groups will simply not have a Town themselves and pillage everything without any risk of retribution.

That is impossible, PvP groups have to be supplied aswell, only a pure mercenary group could work if supplied by another guild and that's possible even with the current system.
Standard "PvP groups" are still part of guilds and alliances, they are not a separate entity.

Solo Players will never even get to a point where they can craft a Weapon because they just get farmed.

The game already in itself is not promoted for solo players, the only thing that helps them are private claims, a feature which has already been so heavily exploited that even devs have not a good idea yet on how to prevent it, that's why they have been removed from the red world.
Also for a solo player or more generally a new player the worst thing that happens when you get killed is the skill loss because you're simply not able to raise your alignment for a long time.
That's another big problem of the alignment system, yet again another feature that "should" protect new players but instead is in favor of already established ones.

Siege Weapons should be flagged as PvP Equipment thus always vulnearble regardless where it is.

I'm not entirely sure about Trebuchets but some of the siege equipment is already flagged as "PvP Equipment" and always vulnerable such as siege tents for example which can always be destroyed.
The exploit with Trebuchets and Private claims even if the Trebuchet is always vulnerable still persists because the problem is that those building it would put around it walls and objects preventing the attacker to hit and gain access to the trebuchet itself, that exploit was massively bad especially during the time when barkboxing and boosting wasn't possible out of JH with drying frame walls easily covering the treb.
If you look at the topic "current state of the game" and go to page 8 you would see at the bottom what the private claim siege meta consists of (21 january btw).
Sometimes i get the feeling that you just recently started playing this game and simply don't realize the massive exploits that can occur from overprotective mechanics.
Yes the game is in beta and we're here to find bugs and massive exploits but if devs can't figure out even after 7-8 months on how to prevent them maybe the mechanic in itself is bad and should be abandoned / replaced.

Town Claims should from start have been most Expensive Costing like 50 points per Tile. While Realm Claim should cost like 5 points.
So Guilds rather use Realm Claim and Upgrade their Monument instead of building several small ones.

Yes that is an interesting subject, some people actually proposed a similar system to promote the usage of realm claim and helping to prevent the town claims spam exploit.
Basically it would consist on calculating the guild upkeep not based on the Tier of the monument but on the amount buildings / stuff you have in the TOWN CLAIM and making it actually expensive.
That way you would actually "pay for protection", an interesting system which would be WAY better then the current one in which basically everyone has free protection as long as you can provide 10 chars to make a monument.
But to implement such a system, a new world, or a wipe would be required since coins have already been heavily farmed and exploited by many guilds back when selling jewelry to the crown was possible.

Outpost should not be JH stuff in the First Place. They should have been Conquereble by usin an IB. Because this would give Such Battles a Great Reason.

An IB system for outposts will never work, people would never bother to IB an outpost when they don't even bother to IB many actual bases.
Outposts in Bobik's idea were to be player made hotspots to incentivate PvP scenarios but the way they were implemented simply didn't fully work for many reasons.
The opportunity to conquer them was restricted to JH only while it should have been a larger daily window to actually add easy daily content because JH is already a "hotspot" in itself, it's already the time in which most people join the server (if it has one). Only the option to destroy them should have been restricted to JH.
Also the fact that too many outposts could be built helped to make each one of them less of an hotspots since they are not so rare.
The fact that outposts are useful but not so mandatory also make it very likely that once one is DESTROYED (destroyed not conquered), it's less likely that the same guild would build another one especially given the fact of the absolutely ridicoulus protection they have (1 sapper charge can destroy one outpost).
An IB system for outposts will never ever work, IBs should be limited and meaningful and for claims only, noone would bother to IB an outpost to conquer it because it's simply not worth the effort.
To "make" and win an IB is not an easy task and requires a lot of effort and people can get "burned out" after a while especially commanders, I played hundreds of them not sure how many you played.

[Sunleader]

1.
In your System the Guild trying to get on Avalon would have deleted on Day one cause before they even build up they would have lost any chance to build anything.

Its hilarious how you try to claim that something that happened due to insufficient protection would not happen with even less protection....


2.
Not Really.
If I just want to raid and pillage and do PvP i dont need big fancy stuff.
I need some facilities for Armor and Weapon Production and some Food.

I can keep cheap bulk goods on mass on my claim.
Or can simply produce em by demand.
Because I dont care if that cheap stuff is stolen.
I got hours of safe time in between where I can just build stuff for our next raid without it ever being in danger.
And if i want to do it 100% safe i can just keep a small supply in trading posts in the capital.
You can steal wood and iron ore then :P
Because the stuff a bit harder to get like leather will be on an alt character that i dont need on jh.


By the way.
If like you say it would be impossible to work without a base for supplys you would make the above part even harder and make old guilds invincible.
Because no new guild would even be able to even build up a supply base



3.
Thing is more than half players are Solo.
Include the guys which want to join a guild but dont do it before having played a while and your on 80%

No Solo Playability means barely any New Players.
Because vast Majority if Players starts alone and only looks for a guild after liking the game.


4.
I get the feeling your making excuses and try to play stupid on purpose but hey whatever.
This is not a gameplay thibg. Its game design thing.

This is an Early Access. Its done to find and stamp out such problems.
So ok its vulnearble already but people can build an invulnearble wall around it.
Fixed in 5 minutes by simply blocking Trebuchets from firing unless they are outside of private claims.

Dont even need barkboxes for that.
And unlike the barkbox bullcrab this way it cant be abused to grief people by glitching over walls.


5.
That would be contra productive.
Cause then it would make even more sense to spam Town Claims.
Because if the more you got in Town Claim the more expensive it gets.
So Town Claims for smaller stuff are Cheap.

My Suggestion of just making Town Claim Expensive and Realm Claim Cheap makes more sense.
Cause it means spamming Town Claim would be very expensive.

After all you want people to not Spam Town Claims.
Not prevent them from Building out ONE claim properly.




6.
Thats the sense behind it Mate.
Thats why I keep telling you that when game would work like you want it.
It would be dead and nobody would build anything.

Of course IBs are harder.
Because IBs you ACTUALLY DO PVP.
In JH its just a snatch and delete game.

Because JH puts the Attacker on an invincible advantage.
Because no Defender will be able to have his Members in Full Force for every Single JH to wait for Attacks.
Meanwhile the Attacker just chooses an JH and will be there in Full Force.

Thats why Defending an Outpost in JH is not worth the attempt.
If the Attacker aint an complete idiot the Attacker wins by default.


An IB (can be a special outpost IB which is cheaper and easier to build but can only be used for outposts)

Is fair because it means both sides are actually online.

Currently there is no real PvP on Outposts.
Uts just a whack a mole game where the attacker takes a post and then deldtes it because they know that they cant defend it either anyways.






Sorry Mate.
But as I said.
The less restrictions a system has the easier it is to exploit.

Your ideas would simply end with a dead server.

But as I said.
As long as you make clear that its a Red Server only suggestion feel free to post it as a topic.
I dont care if the Red Server dies.

[DiddlyDale]

1.
In your System the Guild trying to get on Avalon would have deleted on Day one cause before they even build up they would have lost any chance to build anything.

Its hilarious how you try to claim that something that happened due to insufficient protection would not happen with even less protection....


2.
Not Really.
If I just want to raid and pillage and do PvP i dont need big fancy stuff.
I need some facilities for Armor and Weapon Production and some Food.

I can keep cheap bulk goods on mass on my claim.
Or can simply produce em by demand.
Because I dont care if that cheap stuff is stolen.
I got hours of safe time in between where I can just build stuff for our next raid without it ever being in danger.
And if i want to do it 100% safe i can just keep a small supply in trading posts in the capital.
You can steal wood and iron ore then :P
Because the stuff a bit harder to get like leather will be on an alt character that i dont need on jh.


By the way.
If like you say it would be impossible to work without a base for supplys you would make the above part even harder and make old guilds invincible.
Because no new guild would even be able to even build up a supply base



3.
Thing is more than half players are Solo.
Include the guys which want to join a guild but dont do it before having played a while and your on 80%

No Solo Playability means barely any New Players.
Because vast Majority if Players starts alone and only looks for a guild after liking the game.


4.
I get the feeling your making excuses and try to play stupid on purpose but hey whatever.
This is not a gameplay thibg. Its game design thing.

This is an Early Access. Its done to find and stamp out such problems.
So ok its vulnearble already but people can build an invulnearble wall around it.
Fixed in 5 minutes by simply blocking Trebuchets from firing unless they are outside of private claims.

Dont even need barkboxes for that.
And unlike the barkbox bullcrab this way it cant be abused to grief people by glitching over walls.


5.
That would be contra productive.
Cause then it would make even more sense to spam Town Claims.
Because if the more you got in Town Claim the more expensive it gets.
So Town Claims for smaller stuff are Cheap.

My Suggestion of just making Town Claim Expensive and Realm Claim Cheap makes more sense.
Cause it means spamming Town Claim would be very expensive.

After all you want people to not Spam Town Claims.
Not prevent them from Building out ONE claim properly.




6.
Thats the sense behind it Mate.
Thats why I keep telling you that when game would work like you want it.
It would be dead and nobody would build anything.

Of course IBs are harder.
Because IBs you ACTUALLY DO PVP.
In JH its just a snatch and delete game.

Because JH puts the Attacker on an invincible advantage.
Because no Defender will be able to have his Members in Full Force for every Single JH to wait for Attacks.
Meanwhile the Attacker just chooses an JH and will be there in Full Force.

Thats why Defending an Outpost in JH is not worth the attempt.
If the Attacker aint an complete idiot the Attacker wins by default.


An IB (can be a special outpost IB which is cheaper and easier to build but can only be used for outposts)

Is fair because it means both sides are actually online.

Currently there is no real PvP on Outposts.
Uts just a whack a mole game where the attacker takes a post and then deldtes it because they know that they cant defend it either anyways.






Sorry Mate.
But as I said.
The less restrictions a system has the easier it is to exploit.

Your ideas would simply end with a dead server.

But as I said.
As long as you make clear that its a Red Server only suggestion feel free to post it as a topic.
I dont care if the Red Server dies.

1/. No because the guilds attacking would have to leave people behind to defend their base, he is right in the fact that when everything is safe on the town claim you have no reason to defend it, that is as obvious as anything can be.

2/. no idea what you are on about here, your just babbling.

3/. Being a singular player doesn't mean you don't interact with the environment around you, if you play solo and you expect to be left alone in an MMO, well lets just say you are probably not the smartest.

You can't play solo in an MMO especially a sandbox MMO, if the devs promote that style of gameplay then their game will die (whoops already did).

4/. you call people stupid but then say bark boxing is glitching, are ladders glitching too? the reason bark boxing is on red servers is because there are no ladders.

And who ever said climbing over a wall was wrong? The only people I have seen say that are players who don't want any PvP, in which case they have the perfect server (RP server).

5/. This is why you need a system in place that limits an account to one guild spot and make it so tiers cost x amount of members to go up, then his idea works, your idea never works because it still puts the power back to the minority.

6/. Hang on what if the defenders are in full force and the attackers aren't, lol you do have a way with bullshit, how does the attacker win by default?

You make a lot of assumptions here, and say it likes its fact, I've played this game since the start and fought plenty of decent battles and skirms.

I was also and attacker and a defender and I can tell you now it was never attacker wins always, you have to be extremely green to think that.

And no IB's aren't proper PvP lol, it's a form of "agreed" PvP, wherein two groups meet for a hustle.

Real PvP doesn't involve everyone having set play dates like overgrown man children, the best times I have had have been off the cuff random fights where my heart has been racing.

And for the first 2 months of the game there was about 3 or 4 of us fighting about 20 people (Mountville I miss you) and we won and lost battles consistently.

And at the time they could have destroyed us but they never managed to because we fought everyday.

And fair hasn't got anything to do with it, they always outnumbered us and we found ways to fight and pull them apart and win.

Outposts were just not implemented correctly because the devs didn't think it through.

[Sunleader]

1.
In your System the Guild trying to get on Avalon would have deleted on Day one cause before they even build up they would have lost any chance to build anything.

Its hilarious how you try to claim that something that happened due to insufficient protection would not happen with even less protection....


2.
Not Really.
If I just want to raid and pillage and do PvP i dont need big fancy stuff.
I need some facilities for Armor and Weapon Production and some Food.

I can keep cheap bulk goods on mass on my claim.
Or can simply produce em by demand.
Because I dont care if that cheap stuff is stolen.
I got hours of safe time in between where I can just build stuff for our next raid without it ever being in danger.
And if i want to do it 100% safe i can just keep a small supply in trading posts in the capital.
You can steal wood and iron ore then :P
Because the stuff a bit harder to get like leather will be on an alt character that i dont need on jh.


By the way.
If like you say it would be impossible to work without a base for supplys you would make the above part even harder and make old guilds invincible.
Because no new guild would even be able to even build up a supply base



3.
Thing is more than half players are Solo.
Include the guys which want to join a guild but dont do it before having played a while and your on 80%

No Solo Playability means barely any New Players.
Because vast Majority if Players starts alone and only looks for a guild after liking the game.


4.
I get the feeling your making excuses and try to play stupid on purpose but hey whatever.
This is not a gameplay thibg. Its game design thing.

This is an Early Access. Its done to find and stamp out such problems.
So ok its vulnearble already but people can build an invulnearble wall around it.
Fixed in 5 minutes by simply blocking Trebuchets from firing unless they are outside of private claims.

Dont even need barkboxes for that.
And unlike the barkbox bullcrab this way it cant be abused to grief people by glitching over walls.


5.
That would be contra productive.
Cause then it would make even more sense to spam Town Claims.
Because if the more you got in Town Claim the more expensive it gets.
So Town Claims for smaller stuff are Cheap.

My Suggestion of just making Town Claim Expensive and Realm Claim Cheap makes more sense.
Cause it means spamming Town Claim would be very expensive.

After all you want people to not Spam Town Claims.
Not prevent them from Building out ONE claim properly.




6.
Thats the sense behind it Mate.
Thats why I keep telling you that when game would work like you want it.
It would be dead and nobody would build anything.

Of course IBs are harder.
Because IBs you ACTUALLY DO PVP.
In JH its just a snatch and delete game.

Because JH puts the Attacker on an invincible advantage.
Because no Defender will be able to have his Members in Full Force for every Single JH to wait for Attacks.
Meanwhile the Attacker just chooses an JH and will be there in Full Force.

Thats why Defending an Outpost in JH is not worth the attempt.
If the Attacker aint an complete idiot the Attacker wins by default.


An IB (can be a special outpost IB which is cheaper and easier to build but can only be used for outposts)

Is fair because it means both sides are actually online.

Currently there is no real PvP on Outposts.
Uts just a whack a mole game where the attacker takes a post and then deldtes it because they know that they cant defend it either anyways.






Sorry Mate.
But as I said.
The less restrictions a system has the easier it is to exploit.

Your ideas would simply end with a dead server.

But as I said.
As long as you make clear that its a Red Server only suggestion feel free to post it as a topic.
I dont care if the Red Server dies.

1/. No because the guilds attacking would have to leave people behind to defend their base, he is right in the fact that when everything is safe on the town claim you have no reason to defend it, that is as obvious as anything can be.

2/. no idea what you are on about here, your just babbling.

3/. Being a singular player doesn't mean you don't interact with the environment around you, if you play solo and you expect to be left alone in an MMO, well lets just say you are probably not the smartest.

You can't play solo in an MMO especially a sandbox MMO, if the devs promote that style of gameplay then their game will die (whoops already did).

4/. you call people stupid but then say bark boxing is glitching, are ladders glitching too? the reason bark boxing is on red servers is because there are no ladders.

And who ever said climbing over a wall was wrong? The only people I have seen say that are players who don't want any PvP, in which case they have the perfect server (RP server).

5/. This is why you need a system in place that limits an account to one guild spot and make it so tiers cost x amount of members to go up, then his idea works, your idea never works because it still puts the power back to the minority.

6/. Hang on what if the defenders are in full force and the attackers aren't, lol you do have a way with bullshit, how does the attacker win by default?

You make a lot of assumptions here, and say it likes its fact, I've played this game since the start and fought plenty of decent battles and skirms.

I was also and attacker and a defender and I can tell you now it was never attacker wins always, you have to be extremely green to think that.

And no IB's aren't proper PvP lol, it's a form of "agreed" PvP, wherein two groups meet for a hustle.

Real PvP doesn't involve everyone having set play dates like overgrown man children, the best times I have had have been off the cuff random fights where my heart has been racing.

And for the first 2 months of the game there was about 3 or 4 of us fighting about 20 people (Mountville I miss you) and we won and lost battles consistently.

And at the time they could have destroyed us but they never managed to because we fought everyday.

And fair hasn't got anything to do with it, they always outnumbered us and we found ways to fight and pull them apart and win.

Outposts were just not implemented correctly because the devs didn't think it through.

1.
Read the Topic.
His Example was about a Guild being Destroyed when Trying to Join another Server due to the Older Guild being too well established.
And he blames that on Town Claim Protection.

2.
Again Read the Topic.
Dont try to Answer if you dont know what others are Talking about.
It makes you look like an Idiot.


3.
Actually in the vast Majorities of MMOs you Play Solo.
All Shops are NPCs and most Items are Drops.
Interaction is often not required till late Endgame.

Which is Logical.
Because again.
Most People Join a Game and Play Alone for quite some time before Joining a Guild they Like.


4.
Climbing over Walls while the Enemy is Offline IS WRONG.
If you want PvP grow some Balls and Attack the Walls during JH when the Defender is actually Online.

Pussys who Climb over Walls using Bark Boxes befire JH starts while the Defender is Offline and then Attack em inside the Castle.
Should not even be allowed to say PvP. Much less are they PvPers.
They are RPK and Griefer Scum that should be Banned.


5.
Dont even need that.
As I said.

Make a T1 Guild Monument Cost 10 Gold Base Price per Week for Town Claim.
While Realm Claim costs nearly nothing.
T4 with Full Grown Claim should be 20 Gold a Week.

And you will see the 1 Person Town Claims will Disappear together with the Town Claim Spamming really Fast.

Because just holding a Claim will at least Require 3-4 People.
More for a Larger Claim.
And putting down a Guild Claim would be too Expensive to use just for Securing some Ressources.



6.
Did you Seriously just Ask this ??????

The Attacker chooses the Day and JH on which he Attacks.
Why would he choose a Day when he doesnt have the People ????

The Defender has no Choice of Time and no Warning either.
He cant possibly be there in Full Force every Single Day just in case.
Unless of course your Guild is a bunch of Social Welfare Abusers who got neither Family nor Friends and thus live in the Game every single day lol.


7.
Congratz.
But that doesnt change anything I Said.
You were Simply Stronger.
There is always someone Stronger.

Now Sorry.
But neither me nor any of my Friends can Fight everyday.
We got these things called Family and Jobs which we need to spend some time on here and there.

If you want to make a Game for People who got no Real Life then Good Luck with that.
But again. You.ll be down to the same Playerbase as Mortal Online.

[Agathius]

'Do you know what will happen if Eple gets JH? We will do what we do best. Cry. A lot. And do you know what the devs will do when they hear it? A hint: remember the bark box removal fiasco?'

Here we have another person even being proud about the game being ruined and an approx 1000 k exact numbers leaving.

Nevertheless if you guys want pvp hop on Avalon. Epleland is Bobik's safe box and it's designed for crying indeed. No point trying to change it. I will gladly tell you most pvpers were at your state once. Then they joined a pvp srv. Do the same and i can easily promise you Epleland will seem a bad memory

[Sunleader]

'Do you know what will happen if Eple gets JH? We will do what we do best. Cry. A lot. And do you know what the devs will do when they hear it? A hint: remember the bark box removal fiasco?'

Here we have another person even being proud about the game being ruined and an approx 1000 k exact numbers leaving.

Nevertheless if you guys want pvp hop on Avalon. Epleland is Bobik's safe box and it's designed for crying indeed. No point trying to change it. I will gladly tell you most pvpers were at your state once. Then they joined a pvp srv. Do the same and i can easily promise you Epleland will seem a bad memory

And yet the RP Server is the most Played Green Server.
Funny isnt it.
The Server with the most Protection is the most Played Server for PvE Players.

I do agree with the PvPers going to the PvP Server tough.
Nobody will Miss them.



And Yeah.
As we are talking about Memories.

I am very sure you Forget entirely how back then I argued that the Game will lose half of its Userbase unless it removes the ability to get inside the Walls and Town Claims of Guilds outside of JH.

Half a Year Later.
The Game has a Third of its Playerbase Left.

And after an Update which Finally went ahead and simply Scripted an Automatic Removal of Players from Town Claims where they got no Rights.
The First thing happening was that we actually got some Players Back.


Pure Coincidence I am sure.


Go to Avalon and Massacre each other.
Stop annoying us on the Green Servers.

[Agathius]

It did happen as you say buddy. Thing is Epleland and many servers had as tight raiding rules as you say, and that is what you do not realise.

All server's town claims could not be scaled in JH.
Guilds needed 3 weeks to be destroyed with IB's, and IB spamm today is gone.

Now those above mean that you are a pure hypocrite. The raiding WAS restricated but that was LITERALLY what contributed in destroying the populace. The barkbox change itself that you so wanted with a boner killed off -1000 ppl in 3 days.

Go home man, you're just making a fool of yourself.
No one got players back through the town claim thing, it was because of other changes happening along with this and everybody knows. So no, it's no coincidence, ppl came back in the new patch cause of Outposts and Red and Green (Some of them). Instead i've heard ppl loathe about the town claim thing in Epleland. Dunno how much of IQ one must have to be happy about it.

[DiddlyDale]

It did happen as you say buddy. Thing is Epleland and many servers had as tight raiding rules as you say, and that is what you do not realise.

All server's town claims could not be scaled in JH.
Guilds needed 3 weeks to be destroyed with IB's, and IB spamm today is gone.

Now those above mean that you are a pure hypocrite. The raiding WAS restricated but that was LITERALLY what contributed in destroying the populace. The barkbox change itself that you so wanted with a boner killed off -1000 ppl in 3 days.

Go home man, you're just making a fool of yourself.
No one got players back through the town claim thing, it was because of other changes happening along with this and everybody knows. So no, it's no coincidence, ppl came back in the new patch cause of Outposts and Red and Green (Some of them). Instead i've heard ppl loathe about the town claim thing in Epleland. Dunno how much of IQ one must have to be happy about it.

I wouldn't argue with him Ag, he hasn't got a clue, I've been trying to argue with him over the last few days and it's like arguing with a child.

He just invents stuff up to try and support his claims or miss quotes you.