Khroma wrote:Yes i guess it depends on what you mean by griefer.
For me it is just people pissing other people off for no gameplay reason, which you can do in most games. There will always be griefer, and the only thing you can do is restrict what they can use to grief other players. You cant ban griefer because they are using the game mechanics you created to grief other people with, and it is one of the major issue for devs with cheating / bots abuse, but griefer are not all cheater.
The only point you are making which seems valid to me, is personal claim and ressource steal / lock kind of.
The rest is simply non existent if claim are not destroyed before x days. Or maybe i m missing something.
From what i have seen people lock ressource on personnal claim with walls, that is why i suggested that wall could be destroyed only, the rest cant. Rack wall is a pain too, dont know what to do about that tho without giving to griefer. But being serious, if someone made a rack wall you want to be able to take it down. If you can destroy rack i dont think people with grief other over such a ridicule thing, it still allows griefing so potentially still a problem to be solve.
Maybe terraformation is bad, maybe allow lord guild to use their own item on personal claim instead so they can use ladder to go around wall etcs ...
Another idea would be to give lord guild right to move item ( like racks ) but not out of the claim, and they cant destroy them.
And i just though 5 min about it so i guess you can come up with even better ideas that would solve the problem ( i dont know all the ways griefer use with personnal claim ).
I dont see has many problem as you seem to see, maybe you can be more clear with example, i m probably missing some new or inovative game mechanics people use now to lock ressources.
Everything can be changed to avoid griefing it should not stop developping new interesting mechanics, because most new content / system / mechanics devs create can be abused in some way at first, it is hard to plan for everything right off the bat, but by no means you should stop innovating.
If you like the idea, wouldnt it be more interesting to try find ideas on how to avoid the ways griefer can exploit it rather than just forgot about implementing the idea all together ?
Ok. I.ll Try to Explain this more Detailed.
The Big Problem is in Fact the Size and the Might Granted by this.
Lets take this by an Example.
By the Idea these Fortresses will hold an Area of like 500-1000 Tiles Radius.
Covering an Entire Server with just 4 such Fortresses.
And the System is Supposed to Work so that basicly NO LAND will remain without Ruler.
This means that every Single New Player has to Settle inside such Lands and thus become Peasant to a Feudal Lord.
And Guilds will usually hold more than one Fortress thus Blocking as much as an Entire Server or maybe even Two.
And now lets assume three Scenarios.
If Guilds can Freely Evict Peasants and their Claims with a Two Week Timer.
If Guilds cannot Evict Peasants and their Claims.
If Guilds can Destroy certain things or take Ressources despite them being under Claim by others.
On the First Scenario the Problem is really Easy to See.
Lets assume that out of the 50 Servers 10 or so are Controlled by Guilds which Simply do not Allow anyone to Settle and will just Evict and Kill anyone who Tries.
This means that 20% of the Entire Game is Blocked for Players.
It also means that if a Player Settles somewhere and the Land is Conquered by such a Guild. He might end up needing to Relocate an Entire Server away. Leaving behind all his Buildings and Ressources.
Incredible Bad for the Game in terms of Player Retention.
Incredible Bad for New Players which might not even know where they Settled and Suddenly get Slaughtered.
And Incredible upshaking for the entire Game because by a Fortress Changing Hands 100 or more Players might all lose their Claims.
Its easy to See that this would lead to Massive Waves of Players Leaving the Game.
In the Second Scenario we take the opposite Idea.
As the Lord cannot actually Control who Settles in his Land.
An Opposing Guild might just go ahead and Start Blockading Bridges, Claim Ressources or Block them off, Create Safe Spots near the Enemy Fortress for their Soldiers to Re Equip and Respawn to Harass them etc etc.
This would not be as Frustrating in terms of Players Leaving en masse.
But it would heavily Boycott the entire System itself and there would be Incredible Frustration among the Guilds trying to actually Play this Feudal System.
The Problem here is somewhat more Diffused.
Because there is many Different Ways to do this.
Walls are used to Block Spots because they are Cheap.
But even Walls if they can just be Destroyed mean that the Lord can go around Griefing and RPKing People behind their Walls with Inpunity.
Which leaves alot of Frustrated Players leaving the Game.
Moreover it would not even Help the Original Problem because the Walls are only used to Block Ressources because they are Cheap and Fast Build.
If they dont work if someone wants to Block something he will Build something else.
Be it a Dry Rack or a Wall of Barrels.
Worst case they will just Shove Tree Logs into the Mining Entrance.
And this assumes only the things where they need to Block something.
in many cases Ressources can be Blocked Simply by having them inside the Claim itself.
Then this doesnt even Help.
But you cant just allow the Lord to take stuff either. Because then the Lord will use it to just Steal stuff from Everyone not just where Ressources are Simply Blocked.
Dont get me Wrong Mate.
I have been Thinking about this as well.
One of these Toughts Lead to my other Suggestion which allows to Bypass such a Problem by Simply Limiting the Lords Power to a very Small Radius around a City where both Sides Rights are Limited and where the Owner will usually not Suddenly Change.
But even there for a Claim thats not even 1% of the Size of what we are Talking about here. This Problem requires an already very Complicated System to be worked out.
And even then the System is more about Damage Control than about Solving the Problem.
Because you can Still Evict People.
Thing is just that due to the Small Size if you Evict someone he has 2 Weeks to move his Stuff 20 Tiles away.
Not 500 Tiles or even further Away.
As I said.
I Generally Like the Idea.
But I simply cannot Find any Way how it could Possibly Work.
No matter how I turn it around.
It will always be Incredible easy to completely Abuse this System and Ruin the entire Thing.
Thats why I really think this Suggestion should Cut off the Money Taxes and the Influence on the Land.
Fortresses should only Tax Outposts.
And this is enough to be Honest.
Because if you get Daily Taxes from all Outposts in one Server that will likely be quite the Income of Ressources Already.
They should neither Tax Money nor have any Additional Influence on Private Claims or Guild Claims.
To make sure the Fortresses are not Besieged by Private Claims it should get a Small influence Radius similar to a T1 Monuments Realm Claim.
But thats about it.
Nothing beyond that