Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Willbonney]

Now that I have access to lots more 100q fertilizer, I've been very able to do some more playing with the soil.

Using 1 row of 10 cells, I used the shovel and picked up 92q "used/freshly harvested" soil by digging up the first cell. The other 9 spots I used a freshly-made -100 skill, 100q material, 100q Blacksmith Hammer - Plough, and those 9 plots came out as 94q.

I then began Ferilizing that row with 100q Fertilizer.

First Run: 93q first square, 95q next 9.
Second Run: 94q first square, 96q next 9.
Third Run: 96q all 10 cells.
Forth Run: 96q all 10 cells.
Fifth Run: 96Q all 10 cells.

Starting with 91q Fertilized Soil.
It took 5 times fertilizing with 100q Dung to raise soil quality to 96.
Fertilized 10 more times and remained 96.

This is at 100 Farming skill, 35 Agility, 25 Willpower checking the soil with 100q shovel.

Will be planting my 97q Seeds I have to see what the output is once harvested.

[Willbonney]

On the 96q freshly Fertilized cells planted:

75q Potatoes x 3
94q Potatoes x 3
97q Carrots x 3
96q Carrots x 3
97q Onions x 3
95q Onions x 3
90q Peas x 3
94q Peas x 3
96q Wheat x 6
97q Flax x 4
95q Flax x 6

All planted within the same plant cycle.

[Azzerhoden]

Thank you for this detail. I am very interested in the results.

[Willbonney]

Okay, results:

This was a "bad" harvest in which I only received bunches of 1/2/3 per harvest. Will continue similar tests and post results on a "good" harvest in which I get 4/8/12.

75q Potatoes = 3 cells 91Q. Soil 91Q.
94q Potatoes = 2 cells of 94Q. Soil 95Q. 1 cell 95Q. Soil 94Q.
97Q Carrots = 3 cells of 95q. Soil 95q.
96Q Carrots = 2 cells 96q. Soil 95q. 1 cell 95q. Soil 96q.
97q Onions = 3 cells 96q. Soil 96q.
95q Onions = 3 cells 95q. Soil 95q.
90q Peas = 3 cells 94q. Soil 94q.
94q Peas = 3 cells 95q. Soil 95q.
96q Wheat = 6 cells 96q. Soil 96q.
97q Flax = 4 cells 95q. Soil 95q.
95q Flax = 5 cells 96q. Soil 96q. 1 Cell 95q. Soil 95q.

Next trick, see how much the plough raises the Quality of the Soil, especially of the cells whose soil quality did not go down.

[Willbonney]

Plough no increases at night, confirmed. Will check if soil quality increases during daylight (as it did in the beginning of the test), but time for bed atm, so will have to happen tomorrow.

[Ziong18]

Please draw out the conclusion with all these finds, some of us are slow -/

[Vamyan]

Please draw out the conclusion with all these finds, some of us are slow -/

I second that, preferably something that can be put into the wiki so it doesn't get buried in forum post hell.

[Willbonney]

Heh, will do.

[Willbonney]

Not seeing soil quality improvement with the Plough, initial statement must have been incorrect.

Still only able to Fertilize up to 96q the soil.

Re-fertilizing the entire field to 96q and will be planting entire rows with same quality seeds.

Will reply with my next test.

For those curious, it is looking to me Max Soil re-fertilization is currently 96q for my character. (I'll play with stats to see if that has any effect later.)

Quality of the soil will only go down if harvested quality is greater OR less than planted quality with deviations being caused by the game's Rounding system (I hate rounding).

[Azzerhoden]

Are you still playing around with results?

[Willbonney]

Gonna have to start fresh it looks. Was playing on an OCN server and they seemed to have wiped their databases.

First it was them upgrading to ssd's. Then something wrong with their network, and their final excuse was something about a fire in their area. 4 days down and then a wipe, sigh.

So now rebuilding my farm on a personal server (run on my SSD). Will be a couple more days before I'm ready to restart.

[Mugsy]

Farming seems to me like this: If you don't know what you're doing you'll get about twice return for planted until your soil goes barren.. If you find high q soil and maintain it well, you can expect to see high q food stuffs, linen and wheat, as well as high yields when the weather has been good. Keeping soil q > 90q shouldn't be too hard if you have an established town.

[Willbonney]

With new animals, it's a lot easier now.

Sheeps and pigs produce about 3-4 times the dung, cows 6-8 times.

Start your field at 100q topsoil (fertile) with a 5x10 field. Plant first two rows 4 different vegetables (5 cells each), third make wheat, last 2 rows makes flax. When you have enough hay and cooking vegetables, switch to full flax.

You'll want a Cow, a Bull (small stable), a Sheep, a Ram (a barn), a Sow, a Pig, about 10 Apple trees of 99/100 q to feed them.

This will allow you to fertilize each cell twice, easy to keep 96 fertility on a farm now, and thus make 100q Rope (bows/xbows), 100q flax/silk/wool cloth (outfits later will give bonuses - 100q likely the best, they already seem to have a bit of resistances on them)

Next test is to see how stats effect farming/fertilizing and animal lore.

[SagaraS248]

From my observations and to confirm Willbonney's findings:

If you have 90Q soil, you can increase the quality by adding fertilizer.

My character has 100 Farming, 97 Animal Lore, and 100 Teraforming.

In my experiment with soil of 90Q and fertilizer of 100Q resulted in:

Code: Select all

Fertilized      0  1  2  4  6  8  16
Soil Quality    90 92 93 95 96 96 96


Fertilization seems to only affect the top layers and does not leech into deeper levels.

A large barn @ 20% dung results in about 100 dung, however, the upkeep once you have around 20-50 animals becomes very difficult, due to the amount of food that you need to keep it sustained and the amount of dung that is being produced.

[Willbonney]

What are your farming stats?

As in, what is your Agility and Willpower?

[SagaraS248]

What are your farming stats?

As in, what is your Agility and Willpower?

Agility is at 25.30.

Willpower is at 41.34.

[Willbonney]

Thank you, 25 was where my Agi was during my initial testing. Will be raising it to 40 and 50 level later when I'm ready to resume testing again. Still gonna be a few days, still growing the wheat for the barns and stables.

[SagaraS248]

Just to let you know, once you have the large stables, you will probably need about 5000-8000 apples to keep it sustained. One you get about 50+ animals, it becomes a very excruciating experience.

[Willbonney]

Just to let you know, once you have the large stables, you will probably need about 5000-8000 apples to keep it sustained. One you get about 50+ animals, it becomes a very excruciating experience.

Wasn't planning on using Large Stables at all honestly. You get more space per cell using the regular ones.

Edited to add: 900 for 6 cells, 150 per cell
9000 for 66 cells is 136 per cell.

[Tymefor]

Just to let you know, once you have the large stables, you will probably need about 5000-8000 apples to keep it sustained. One you get about 50+ animals, it becomes a very excruciating experience.

Wasn't planning on using Large Stables at all honestly. You get more space per cell using the regular ones.

Edited to add: 900 for 6 cells, 150 per cell
9000 for 66 cells is 136 per cell.

yeah but large is more efficient in terms of not needing to clean and harvest from multiple stables.

[Willbonney]

Eh, 2 small stables and one Barn seemed plenty to gather enough dung to keep a 100 cell farm at 96 quality soil rate without any issues with the "default" settings.

Those settings being 3 hour plants/trees and 60 minute animal breeding/harvesting.

[Tymefor]

true.

Its all leading me to think that the ingredient requirements need to be raised a fair bit. that or the output of stables and barns reduced. Personally I think increase ingredient requirements as watching your barns and stables become successful and full is fun.

Its just to easy really to produce huge amounts of items from that whole mechanic. as you say whats the point of the large stable. I don't really feel that the balance is correct for long term play atm. Hell I woke up played for 20 mins and harvested 1200 flax 100 each of onions, carrots and cabbage 324 wool pack, 140 milk and something like 400 dung. And I seriously don't have any need for any of it lol. Ive stopped even bothering to slaughter because I have so much leather meat and bone glue its stupid

Once you have a settlement built its just to easy to do anything now really. I hope that will all change again with more things implemented. And I am actually hoping that overburned will get changed so we cant carry such stupidly large amounts of things.

Its all got to be harder and slower !!

[Willbonney]

true.

Its all leading me to think that the ingredient requirements need to be raised a fair bit. that or the output of stables and barns reduced. Personally I think increase ingredient requirements as watching your barns and stables become successful and full is fun.

Its just to easy really to produce huge amounts of items from that whole mechanic. as you say whats the point of the large stable. I don't really feel that the balance is correct for long term play atm. Hell I woke up played for 20 mins and harvested 1200 flax 100 each of onions, carrots and cabbage 324 wool pack, 140 milk and something like 400 dung. And I seriously don't have any need for any of it lol. Ive stopped even bothering to slaughter because I have so much leather meat and bone glue its stupid

Once you have a settlement built its just to easy to do anything now really. I hope that will all change again with more things implemented. And I am actually hoping that overburned will get changed so we cant carry such stupidly large amounts of things.

Its all got to be harder and slower !!

I think the balance is good. Our problem is we mostly aren't on skill capped servers (we playing on the 3k'ers). Thus, we are making everything we need for ourselves. All production, self consumption. When the MMO hits, it will take specializing in specific branches and playing with the skill locks to maintain your professions to do what you want, how you want it. Try playing on a 600 or 700 skill-capped server, it's definitely trickier when you can't be "Master of All."

[Stormsblade]

true.

Its all leading me to think that the ingredient requirements need to be raised a fair bit. that or the output of stables and barns reduced. Personally I think increase ingredient requirements as watching your barns and stables become successful and full is fun.

Its just to easy really to produce huge amounts of items from that whole mechanic. as you say whats the point of the large stable. I don't really feel that the balance is correct for long term play atm. Hell I woke up played for 20 mins and harvested 1200 flax 100 each of onions, carrots and cabbage 324 wool pack, 140 milk and something like 400 dung. And I seriously don't have any need for any of it lol. Ive stopped even bothering to slaughter because I have so much leather meat and bone glue its stupid

Once you have a settlement built its just to easy to do anything now really. I hope that will all change again with more things implemented. And I am actually hoping that overburned will get changed so we cant carry such stupidly large amounts of things.

Its all got to be harder and slower !!

A good and unfortunate point... and that is just one person, albeit with YO modifiers.

What is going to happen in the MMO when you have a city of dozens? Think of all the surplus.

[Tymefor]

@Will
all of that was from the farming line only. done by 1 person. sure the planting takes about 1 hour the day before and harvesting 40 trees takes a good 20mins. but really after spending about 4-5 hours taming animals I don't have to think about breeding much anymore (although im down to 1 ram now lol so maybe ill have to go and grab another few gasp 30mins of work).

I just handed over 80 bratwurst to a new player because I have more than 200 of them. Its seriously to easy. Every cooking recipe needs to be tuned much higher. crops harvest need to be reduced to a MAX of 4 yield. Wool harvest need to be per day cycle like crops not per game hour (I know its different per settings). WTF is with giving 4 frakking hides from a bull slaughter. Culling my herd just to free up space I ended up with 124 hides. that's crazy. tailoring recipes therefore need to be MUCH more leather. 2 leather for a breast piece and 6 leather for the whole set of standard armor is just stupid given the ability to produce in excess of 100 leather per cull.

[Willbonney]

So first, your farmer needs to get 100q Apple Trees, which requires you to level Forestry or trade for the sprouts.

Then you need to be able to track your animals, so there's some Hunting Skill.

Cooking is the 4th skill in the tree, and so there's your character. 400 points in the farming line through cooking (no tailor), 100 Hunting, 100 Forestry. To obtain anything else in the game, you will have to trade your produced goods for other's produced goods. You'll have primitive tools with the forestry, but I'm sure you'll want to upgrade to metal tools at some point. You'll even need someone else to place and build your coops/barns/stables or any other building you might want. Some folks might do it for ya's for free, I wouldn't.

Edited to add: My point is, the game is not "balanced" production wise for one person to make everything they could possibly need. It's attempted to be balanced for many players working together in their different specialties to support one another. At least that's the goal.

[SagaraS248]

I don't quite agree with the balance being completely off, if you've played on servers at their default rates and skill caps, it's quite a challenge trying to build your fortune.

Even on a 10x, 3k skill point, 0.5 growth multiplier, it took four of us to get our settlement/fort up and running. The majority of us had to specialize in respective trees, till we managed to branch out. I mean sure, after you got all the major buildings, skills up, etc., you've completed the majority of the hurdles. But, you still have to look at it from the standpoint on how much time to get your characters skills up, buildings, farming, etc. The initial investment for the warehouses, large stables, etc. are quite staggering.

The barriers to entry are very high in LiF, especially when you initially start the game. Looking at it now, you are greatly rewarded for the time and effort you put in.

Lowering the yields of crops to a max of four would be a bad idea, in my opinion, at least flax and their stems. Tailoring has insane requirements for ingredients. At least during the beginning you would not likely have access to a substantial amount of fertilizer and not everyone would be farming.

If the server you are playing on has lots of players which are helpful and in the same group/guild, it would be quite easy to attain most of the items in the game. However, if the server is fairly quiet, you run with a small group (mostly disappeared), or run into skirmishes with others, the game can be unforgiving.

At least the developers have given players the choice to choose servers with custom modifiers. Players have the freedom to play at a desired difficulty.

On a side note, I do have around 130 100Q Apple trees, but, there seems to be glitch with the regrowth of apples, as it only occurs when the server restarts. Once the animals in the stables get to around 40-50% full, they tend to want to reproduce.

Edit: Incorrect information.

[Tymefor]

I don't quite agree with the balance being completely off, if you've played on servers at their default rates and skill caps, it's quite a challenge trying to build your fortune.

Even on a 10x, 3k skill point, 0.5 growth multiplier, it took four of us to get our settlement/fort up and running. The majority of us had to specialize in respective trees, till we managed to branch out. I mean sure, after you got all the major buildings, skills up, etc., you've completed the majority of the hurdles. But, you still have to look at it from the standpoint on how much time to get your characters skills up, buildings, farming, etc. The initial investment for the warehouses, large stables, etc. are quite staggering.

The barriers to entry are very high in LiF, especially when you initially start the game. Looking at it now, you are greatly rewarded for the time and effort you put in.

Lowering the yields of crops to a max of four would be a bad idea, in my opinion, at least flax and their stems. Tailoring has insane requirements for ingredients. Rope requires 250 stems and one single piece of linen cloth needs 1250 stems. I don't even want to start with wool cloth, as it requires an incredible amount of wool packs. At least during the beginning you would not likely have access to a substantial amount of fertilizer and not everyone would be farming.

If the server you are playing on has lots of players which are helpful and in the same group/guild, it would be quite easy to attain most of the items in the game. However, if the server is fairly quiet, you run with a small group (mostly disappeared), or run into skirmishes with others, the game can be unforgiving.

At least the developers have given players the choice to choose servers with custom modifiers. Players have the freedom to play at a desired difficulty.

On a side note, I do have around 130 100Q Apple trees, but, there seems to be glitch with the regrowth of apples, as it only occurs when the server restarts. Once the animals in the stables get to around 40-50% full, they tend to want to reproduce.

it hink you need to play more or read more mate. this is a group game so yes there will always be people to help.

rope is 25 flax stem not 250 lol. your out by x10 on both that and the cloth.

[Tymefor]

@ will

why would my farmer be stuffing with trees? saplings come from a forester. fairly sure ill just trade for the saplings i want i dont need 100 forestry to farm.

not sure how hard finding animals in the mmo will be. but if its anything like hunting in YO i dont need the hunting skill to track animals. would just take a little longer. and anyways due to the HUGE surpluses they will be super easy to trade for.

[Willbonney]

@ will

why would my farmer be stuffing with trees? saplings come from a forester. fairly sure ill just trade for the saplings i want i dont need 100 forestry to farm.

not sure how hard finding animals in the mmo will be. but if its anything like hunting in YO i dont need the hunting skill to track animals. would just take a little longer. and anyways due to the HUGE surpluses they will be super easy to trade for.

Well that's the point. If you are not creating a surplus, you have nothing to trade for other's surplus.

Barter trade will likely be the first form of commerce for a while. Farmers will trade their Horses, Flax, Rope, Linen, Wool, Leather, and Food for building materials and construction, Flux, metal tools, weapons and armor, and likely more that I'm not thinking of currently. And to be honest, not many on any server actually go the farming route. Since I've made this Topic post, I've had 3 private messages from players asking if I'd come over to their populated servers and be a farmer there. No joke.

On skill capped servers, I would say 60% of players want to go either the Mining line for Blacksmithing weapons and armor, or Forestry with Hunting route for bows and xbows. Another 15% go the Herbalism Hybrid builds (since Alchemy not in and Healing isn't that great, they choose other profession lines) and they are the only supply of Flux for their communities. Normal circumstances only about 25% of the players are actual farmers. At the moment quite a few more have gone farmer, because that's the new and popular thing. Before this patch, it was quite literally 1 in 4.