Where does the currency come from?

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Neosn
 
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Where does the currency come from?

Post by Neosn » 29 Jan 2014, 11:26

I have indeed searched for some forum dedicated to the question above. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find a clear answer.
As a player of Wurm online, I know that the currency in that game, while fair, was very hard to get a hold of without being one of two things.
1. A high level trader
2. Willing to pay real money for in game currency
Will the currency be much like Wurm, or more like eve where small ammounts of currency are freely available from npc's. The balancing feature being that you need to trade with real players to get anything more.
If anyone knows the answer, or at least a good idea on how to fix it, would you please leave a reply? Thanks!


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Re: Where does the currency come from?

Post by Sting5 » 29 Jan 2014, 12:11

Considering all that I've managed to find out, this would sum up as:
- Money can be gained by trading with server tradeposts;
- You can accidentally (if extremely lucky) find gold nuggets while mining. By the way Bobik explained the mining success posibility, it's really not big. You have to be really lucky;
- and PvP trades, of course :) Though I don't really know how much You will be forced into it by gameplay and the world itself, seems reasonable that NPC spots will only offer basics, while other players will be a source of all things/materials You might require.
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Neosn
 
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Re: Where does the currency come from?

Post by Neosn » 29 Jan 2014, 21:37

Thank you for clarifying that for me.

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Worldsprayer
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Re: Where does the currency come from?

Post by Worldsprayer » 29 Jan 2014, 22:04

That says to me that at least for a certain time after start up, we can expect to see a primarily barter-driven society. The NPC traders are supposed to only trade in low-level materials, and such you wont be seeing massive quantities of funds coming through them (which is how it works in the real word...money doesn't just appear). What I would like to see is the ability to take raw materials and craft money. That's how it works after all when you're talking a pure gold/silver/copper based economy.
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banok
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Re: Where does the currency come from?

Post by banok » 30 Jan 2014, 07:06

I'm curious about this aswell.

I guess i imagined it would be like haven and hearth where there is no set currency and players trade in whatever, bricks etc.

but since there is apparently NPC cities, then I'm not sure.

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Bobik
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Re: Where does the currency come from?

Post by Bobik » 30 Jan 2014, 08:43

TBH, I don't have 100% final decision about in game currency injection into game economy.
1. Barter sucks :) It might be unavoidable at some point, but we should minimize it as much as possible.
2. Main source of in game money will be server driven NPCs (trading posts rather) that will buy out goods from players. Since we plan to make a trading post to be available to players as a building, we might automatically insert server presence into every trading post. So you will be able to sell your goods to server locally (with some daily limitation ofc). That should make a local region inflow of currency without necessity to fetch all your goods to the central city.
3. I'd rather say "no" for self made currency ATM. It will take time to implement and have a lot of hidden problems. Actually selling gold ingots to server will result in a same effect - you will get official gold coins for your gold.


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Re: Where does the currency come from?

Post by Neosn » 30 Jan 2014, 14:38

These local trading posts, would they teleport the world's goods into one central market? Would you just trade your goods to the merchant, take your money, and just have your item deleted?
A market system, much like in eve, where transporting goods from trading post to trading post, to be bought by other players, could be very cool. I think a transporting job could really add another layer of sophistication to the game.

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Bobik
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Re: Where does the currency come from?

Post by Bobik » 30 Jan 2014, 15:05

There will be 100% necessity to transport goods between trading posts, if we talk about player to player trading system.
You can imagine a trading post to be like a station in EvE, so if you want to buy something, you will have to find a desired item in nearby posts by some kind of global interface and then get there by yourself with all your money, complete a deal and then go back to your home/base with these goods.

In case of player to server trading, some goods/gold teleportation will be implemented I think.


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Re: Where does the currency come from?

Post by Neosn » 31 Jan 2014, 01:29

Sounds great, thanks for clarifying everything for me Bobik, 10/10 service!


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Re: Where does the currency come from?

Post by Murtag » 31 Jan 2014, 06:05

Bobik wrote:There will be 100% necessity to transport goods between trading posts, if we talk about player to player trading system.
You can imagine a trading post to be like a station in EvE, so if you want to buy something, you will have to find a desired item in nearby posts by some kind of global interface and then get there by yourself with all your money, complete a deal and then go back to your home/base with these goods.

In case of player to server trading, some goods/gold teleportation will be implemented I think.


So there might actually be tradecaravans to ambush ?

:beer:

Oh lord i can see the rageposts already :) Cant wait!
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Bobik
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Re: Where does the currency come from?

Post by Bobik » 31 Jan 2014, 07:18

Murtag wrote:So there might actually be tradecaravans to ambush ?

:beer:
...


Yes, that is our goal ;)


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Re: Where does the currency come from?

Post by trashman » 31 Jan 2014, 07:22

So you say that you will have to travel to a trading post to engage in trading, but that all trading posts are linked together?

Also, what is required to build a trading post? If anyone can make one and the materials required are not hard to come by, then there will be no need to travel to a trading post as everyone will have next to their house.

If this is the case, then I think a solution would be to only allow cities to be able to operate a full working trading post that can trade globally. Although, I think personal land claims should be able to build a trading post, but only able to sell items to other players that physically go there.

I would even be an advocate for no global trading through the trading post. I believe the need for trading will form trading hubs and communities. Almost separate economies in a since. This would add a wonderful aspect to the game that will require added thought to trading :)

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Bobik
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Re: Where does the currency come from?

Post by Bobik » 31 Jan 2014, 07:34

You had not played EvE-online or have missed my post completely: where-does-the-currency-come-from-t636/#p6175

Player to player trading will demand both fetching of gold to the certain outpost you want to buy things at and both fetching bought goods back to your home/base whatever.

Cost for building a trading post will not be sky high, but it will not be cheap either, so trading posts ideally should be placed in guild cities or on some strategic points, but not spammed everywhere by everyone. And eve if they do - that won't give much of advantage, because you will still have to fetch your gold and goods to and from that post. Or even better, if you will see a good item in other trading post, you will have to fetch your gold there andd bring bought stuff back from there.

My words about "globally connected" trading posts is only about that you will be able to see all the selling offers in all trading post around the continent and in case of selling something to the server, server will globally fetch your gold to you in that local trading post of yours. But that amount will surely be not tha big and ofc selling or buying something to/from server should not be profitable to anyone, except the server :)


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Re: Where does the currency come from?

Post by Murtag » 31 Jan 2014, 07:45

Bobik wrote:
Murtag wrote:So there might actually be tradecaravans to ambush ?

:beer:
...


Yes, that is our goal ;)


Awesome :)

One thing that always dissapointed me about Darkfall was that they said they where gonna do local banking, but then dident have time for it (i think that is what they said). It would add so much imo to a pvp game , as it has in eve that you used as an example.
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trashman
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Re: Where does the currency come from?

Post by trashman » 31 Jan 2014, 08:02

Bobik wrote: My words about "globally connected" trading posts is only about that you will be able to see all the selling offers in all trading post around the continent


Gotcha ;)


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Re: Where does the currency come from?

Post by Kossako » 31 Jan 2014, 08:36

trashman wrote:
Bobik wrote: My words about "globally connected" trading posts is only about that you will be able to see all the selling offers in all trading post around the continent


Gotcha ;)


From what I understood It will be like EVE then. You can see whole market from certain station but you need to pickup bough item when it was placed to sell.
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Bobik
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Re: Where does the currency come from?

Post by Bobik » 31 Jan 2014, 08:59

Kossako wrote:From what I understood It will be like EVE then. You can see whole market from certain station but you need to pickup bough item when it was placed to sell.


Yup. But you will have also to fetch your gold there too. There will be no global virtual wallet as it is in Eve. Only your local piles of gold that you will have to carry around the world with your trembling and sweating hands ;) :D


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Re: Where does the currency come from?

Post by Dailato » 31 Jan 2014, 11:33

Bobik wrote:
Kossako wrote:From what I understood It will be like EVE then. You can see whole market from certain station but you need to pickup bough item when it was placed to sell.


Yup. But you will have also to fetch your gold there too. There will be no global virtual wallet as it is in Eve. Only your local piles of gold that you will have to carry around the world with your trembling and sweating hands ;) :D


Damn, talk about incentive to take down towns... where all the guildies have stored their gold "safely"...
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Re: Where does the currency come from?

Post by SaresITA89 » 31 Jan 2014, 12:29

Hello,

I know that you are still in pre-alpha, and this feature will not be active right away.

But, I wanted to know if you have at least thought to include a system of quests / announcement, created by players.

Have you played Xsyon? I can put an advertisement like this:

I want a sword, and if you give it me, I give you 9 materials of iron or $ 100.


It 'a system opposed to the market, but equally useful.

I want a sword , but instead of going to the market with my money, I wait for someone to bring his sword from me.

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Bobik
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Re: Where does the currency come from?

Post by Bobik » 31 Jan 2014, 13:14

It is basically the same as shouting your buy/sell advertisement on a market square as it was in some old MMOS (and still in some theme park or grind fest MMOs). Only difference is that these shouts are stored on a board.
I don't think that system brings much immersion and will be hard to work with. If I want a sword ASAP, I would go on auction and browse for available offers. If I don't want that sword that fast, I will place my own buy offer and will wait when someone will bring it to me.

Well, pretty much like in EvE and some other MMOs with a good working auction. Only difference is that your money won't be deducted from some virtual wallet and your item wont be fetched to you via mail.


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Re: Where does the currency come from?

Post by Sting5 » 01 Feb 2014, 09:15

Bobik wrote:[...] Cost for building a trading post will not be sky high, but it will not be cheap either, so trading posts ideally should be placed in guild cities or on some strategic points, but not spammed everywhere by everyone. And eve if they do - that won't give much of advantage, because you will still have to fetch your gold and goods to and from that post. Or even better, if you will see a good item in other trading post, you will have to fetch your gold there and bring bought stuff back from there.
Then, naturally, a question arises: when clans will start a war one against another - and if I remember looting topic correctly - You will be able to attack someones de jure land by casus belli. If that's the point, will we be allowed to loot trade posts of clans we're at war with? :sorry:
QUAERO TOTUS

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Bobik
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Re: Where does the currency come from?

Post by Bobik » 01 Feb 2014, 20:46

Yes, you will. But it will still be decided of what kind of inventory will be there in a loot. Dropping ALL the inventory of ALL the players in that trading post might be a bit harsh.


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Re: Where does the currency come from?

Post by En_Dotter » 02 Feb 2014, 01:49

Bobik wrote:Yes, you will. But it will still be decided of what kind of inventory will be there in a loot. Dropping ALL the inventory of ALL the players in that trading post might be a bit harsh.


I dont really agree it would be harsh.

1. Trade is essential for every economy no matter where
2. Merchants had always been privileged as a class and as a profession in medieval times
3. If everything can be lost that means that a realm that wants merchants must give them safety.
4. If you would restrict the loot from the trading posts than you would remove one possible cause of war - raids are amazing way to boost your own economy and cripple the economy of your foes
5. Merchants were well informed ppl (at least the serious ones), so this means that merchants would need to know where it is safe and were it isnt
6. Immersion immersion immersion
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Re: Where does the currency come from?

Post by Neosn » 02 Feb 2014, 03:43

En_Dotter wrote:
Bobik wrote:Yes, you will. But it will still be decided of what kind of inventory will be there in a loot. Dropping ALL the inventory of ALL the players in that trading post might be a bit harsh.


I dont really agree it would be harsh.

1. Trade is essential for every economy no matter where
2. Merchants had always been privileged as a class and as a profession in medieval times
3. If everything can be lost that means that a realm that wants merchants must give them safety.
4. If you would restrict the loot from the trading posts than you would remove one possible cause of war - raids are amazing way to boost your own economy and cripple the economy of your foes
5. Merchants were well informed ppl (at least the serious ones), so this means that merchants would need to know where it is safe and were it isnt
6. Immersion immersion immersion


Let's just remember, this is a game, let's try to keep it that way. Game mechanics shouldn't require you to make this game your life. Let's try to make sure the game is at least a little forgiving.

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Re: Where does the currency come from?

Post by Thokan » 02 Feb 2014, 13:41

En_Dotter wrote:
Bobik wrote:Yes, you will. But it will still be decided of what kind of inventory will be there in a loot. Dropping ALL the inventory of ALL the players in that trading post might be a bit harsh.


I dont really agree it would be harsh.

1. Trade is essential for every economy no matter where
2. Merchants had always been privileged as a class and as a profession in medieval times
3. If everything can be lost that means that a realm that wants merchants must give them safety.
4. If you would restrict the loot from the trading posts than you would remove one possible cause of war - raids are amazing way to boost your own economy and cripple the economy of your foes
5. Merchants were well informed ppl (at least the serious ones), so this means that merchants would need to know where it is safe and were it isnt
6. Immersion immersion immersion


Trade will be between individuals and guilds. There is nothing that indicates that there will be a need for "merchants".

A lot of people have stated they will be "merchants" even if there is no in-game logic to support this. For merchants to spring up you need an in-individual economy. Everything is individual so far.
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Re: Where does the currency come from?

Post by Seppuku » 08 Feb 2014, 14:40

Worldsprayer wrote:That says to me that at least for a certain time after start up, we can expect to see a primarily barter-driven society. The NPC traders are supposed to only trade in low-level materials, and such you wont be seeing massive quantities of funds coming through them (which is how it works in the real word...money doesn't just appear). What I would like to see is the ability to take raw materials and craft money. That's how it works after all when you're talking a pure gold/silver/copper based economy.



Actually here in America money DOES just appear. Our infinitely wise politicians just print as much of it as they want.
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Re: Where does the currency come from?

Post by Protunia » 23 Feb 2014, 06:58

hmmmm.....Ok so you will be injecting gold to the players through Trader buildings....Sounds Familiar....

The Central Main City is no longer really needed after they build one of these Trader Buildings...I don't know if this is a good thing I guess it depends on how you implement these Traders.

Questions moved to FAQ from here.
Last edited by Protunia on 23 Feb 2014, 09:09, edited 5 times in total.


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Re: Where does the currency come from?

Post by Protunia » 23 Feb 2014, 08:21

Ok if I understand this correctly...

These Trader Buildings are kind of like Stations in EvE.

Where players can list items for sale and other players can access this list of Stations and purchase items.

The Exception is There will not be any delivering or charges to players as the player will only find out where they have to go to pick these items up while bringing the gold along to purchase them.

Am I close here??

In some cases the items listed for sale may not be able to be accessed? Say if the Trader Building is Locked up?

This can and will lead to Trader building (station) traps just like EvE online has where you go all the way there and find out you have been had and the goal all along was to kill you. ;)

Interesting concept for sure. :D


finalreview
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Re: Where does the currency come from?

Post by finalreview » 23 Feb 2014, 13:45

IMO: Sell to trade post directly for low amount of gold that is generated on sale. Or wait and sell to player who travels to buy the item for high amount of already generated gold.

There will always be a use for the capital city! Who doesn't want to trade in a 100% safe city?


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Re: Where does the currency come from?

Post by Proximo » 23 Feb 2014, 15:00

A harsh loot system makes the economy better. More realism, more hardcore! down with the casual baby blubbers. You want this game to thrive and be unique and worth playing? Scrap the carebear shit. People get bored of carebear shit.

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