Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Cian]

If you are offended by a guild name then it sounds like a problem that you must resolve within yourself yes?

As long as a name isn't blatently racist, sexist, or intentionally vulger or derogatory I don't believe that Bobik's team should get involved.

I support a person's right to name their clan whatever they want. I may tell them if I think it's stupid, but there is merely my opinion and they are free to ignore me.

Ignore them Dailato, it's their problem if they are offended.

[Telakh]

Quite reasonable. Once again I comletely agree with Cian

[Dailato]

If you are offended by a guild name then it sounds like a problem that you must resolve within yourself yes?

As long as a name isn't blatently racist, sexist, or intentionally vulger or derogatory I don't believe that Bobik's team should get involved.

I support a person's right to name their clan whatever they want. I may tell them if I think it's stupid, but there is merely my opinion and they are free to ignore me.

Ignore them Dailato, it's their problem if they are offended.

Quite reasonable. Once again I comletely agree with Cian

We appreciate your support.

Yours truly -The Pope

[Arthua]

Why not avoid it all together?

I am not completely in offense, as i am not particularly catholic (not important).

But I find your recalitrance very confrontational. You acknowledge the possibility of your guild offending others, yet you dont want to make a subtle change because you feel the name is ok.

Calling your guild the vatican and yourself the pope is not fiction. Life of Feudal is not a historical game. Catholicism is real and not a joke to many many people. And you should relax and change your name. It will not change the scope or theme of guild. Youll be thr same guild, just alot less anti-catholic.

@Cian: So if the guild name is sexist, racist, or vulgar it's wrong, but if it is blashempous it's OK? Please.

How does tht make sense? Racism and sexism is off limits, but heck mixing in religion is not. You cant be selectively tolerant.

You cannot do "whatevrr you want". You and your guild are not the only ones playing, there are other people in this community, and some may feel offended by your guild.

Imm go make a superficial guild called "The Negros" we are a guild based on slavery, and will be slave group. Who cares if them black folks feel uncomfortable, because screw how they feel, cause I feel fine, ....right?

PS: I wouldve quote replied, but its a hassle on an iPhone

[Dailato]

I'm not going to go into great detail as I've given my arguments in previous posts, so please read the entire thread so far if you haven't yet.

In short: We are not in any way shape or form anti-anything, we are not propogating hatred or mockery of anything, and if you prefer to see it otherwise based simply on the name of our guild that's your choice.

Why not avoid it all together?

Because we don't, and more to the point shouldn't have to.

As I've told others before you, if you insist on continuing this type of conversation please do so via PM.

Also, while I applaud your initiative in bringing a slave-trade based RP guild into the world, we would like to remind you that not only does the Vatican condemn slavery, physically enslaving other players to perform your menial chores in or out of game goes against the terms of service, please keep that in mind while playing.

Yours truly -The Pope

[Proximo]

Christianity goes hand in hand with western medieval era. The game plans on linking it's alignment system with praying and piety relates to whom is Pope or cardinals.

Many developers have used the church and Christianity in video games in much more depth. If a player wants to use it in a video game then what is the difference?

Is the fact that they are not being historically accurate in a fictitious game offending you? I assure you that the church has done many more terrible things in reality than a player taking a name from history and applying near total fiction to it.

If people will be offended that the name of an organization they belong to is being borrowed for a game which takes place in a fictitious version of a part of history that the organization existed in. Then those people are simply close minded.

Players on the internet could easily do much worse to the names of the church. For example making the religion about satan or cannibalism or god forbid pedophilia.

Count yourself lucky these guys actually want to kind of RP it out like a Feudal Vatican which is a state and incorporate relatively 'good' religious views even if they are complete fiction.

The short of it is simply suck it up buttercup, it doesn't matter if you offend some people because 100% of the time someone is going to get offended anyways.

I was totally planning on discussing something with the Vatican clan people but now i've forgotten. Well how's it going with you guys? Player base gorwing? Mostly NA or EU?

[Demonic]

Well, our core (Dailato and me xD ) comes from one European gaming guild, but i really dunno about the others We got some new members as you can see in the first post, but I actually don't know much about them, 'cause I hadn't time to ask Dailato about them, I'm kinda tired after work every day xD

P.S.
By the way, thanks for your support. I was battling this and simmilar player attitude back when I was Dev on one Czech Hardcore RP WoW server. It's sad how many people can't thing outside of the box.

[Arthua]

Well I just wanted to make valid points as to why you should reconsider your name, but you have your views. And I am obviously out-numbered in your guild thread.

Also @ whoever said people who are offended at the names of organizations are close-minded, well those who could care less about their peers are insensitive.

Count yourself lucky these guys actually want to kind of RP it out like a Feudal Vatican which is a state and incorporate relatively 'good' religious views even if they are complete fiction.

Lucky? That sounds like some sort of threat. Relax, I am just stating numerous reasons why one should avoid topics religion, politics, race, and gender. Just in bad taste is all.

Glad to have brought you (the vatician leader) more disciples, as there is no such thing as bad publicity.

[Proximo]

Well I just wanted to make valid points as to why you should reconsider your name, but you have your views. And I am obviously out-numbered in your guild thread.

Also @ whoever said people who are offended at the names of organizations are close-minded, well those who could care less about their peers are insensitive.

Count yourself lucky these guys actually want to kind of RP it out like a Feudal Vatican which is a state and incorporate relatively 'good' religious views even if they are complete fiction.

Lucky? That sounds like some sort of threat. Relax, I am just stating numerous reasons why one should avoid topics religion, politics, race, and gender. Just in bad taste is all.

Glad to have brought you (the vatician leader) more disciples, as there is no such thing as bad publicity.

I could berate you for the sheer stupidity of things you just said but I won't because your not worth me typing that much.

If you could read a sentence in english and comprehend what it means then you would understand. The quote of what I said is in fact a reference to how most of the people on the internet are trolls and will slander anything far worse.

Being out numbered in a thread doesn't matter. There are no religious people here that will shout over you when you debunk there logic.

[Dailato]

While I thank you for the discussion that's been had, and the support that's been given, we will not be re-opening this debate.

I've mentioned two, if not three times allready that any more discussion of this should be done in PM. The discussion as is related to the Vatican has been had, our points have been made clear, and we are now starting to de-rail the thread.

Discussion of any other nature or topic related to the Vatican or Papal States is of course still encouraged.

Yours truly -The Pope

[Ariel]

I personally think having this type of guild as a part of the world will be great!

Even if I may not be a part or follow the philosophy and rules attatched to it, I think that having a "religious" group such as your own will make things more interesting. Of course we'll have to wait and see how everything plays out when the game is eventually released, but I look forward to seeing how your guild grows and what it's impact on the world will be

[Arthua]

Well I just wanted to make valid points as to why you should reconsider your name, but you have your views. And I am obviously out-numbered in your guild thread.

Also @ whoever said people who are offended at the names of organizations are close-minded, well those who could care less about their peers are insensitive.

Count yourself lucky these guys actually want to kind of RP it out like a Feudal Vatican which is a state and incorporate relatively 'good' religious views even if they are complete fiction.

Lucky? That sounds like some sort of threat. Relax, I am just stating numerous reasons why one should avoid topics religion, politics, race, and gender. Just in bad taste is all.

Glad to have brought you (the vatician leader) more disciples, as there is no such thing as bad publicity.

I could berate you for the sheer stupidity of things you just said but I won't because your not worth me typing that much.

If you could read a sentence in english and comprehend what it means then you would understand. The quote of what I said is in fact a reference to how most of the people on the internet are trolls and will slander anything far worse.

Being out numbered in a thread doesn't matter. There are no religious people here that will shout over you when you debunk there logic.

No, no that is actually the exact definition of a threat. There is no need to bring up what 'most' people on the internet would do, if you didn't mean to use it as a way of halting my opinion/discussion.

Sorry, I probably should have been more clear: passive aggression.

Please don't go around calling proper statements/arguments "stupid", and becoming angry over petty arguments. It makes you look incompetent, and doesn't even help your argument.

There are no religious people here that will shout over you when you debunk there logic.

It's ironic that you say this P.

PS: PM me if you want to argue over something.

[Dailato]

not sure what happened here, think one of the mods was messing with the posts.

Anyway, no more wall of text half-way through the thread, carry on.

[Radison]

Was this a miss post? I find it strange that you have two posts in the Guild recruitment forum. You would think this would be included in your main post...../.

[Thokan]

Was this a miss post? I find it strange that you have two posts in the Guild recruitment forum. You would think this would be included in your main post...../.

Nah, it is to split it up a bit. Even now it is a murderous wall-text post

[Arrakis]

» Topics have been merged due to the fact that both of them had same content.

Please update your discussion thread here instead of posting another one, let's keep forum clean, shall we? Thank you very much.

[Proximo]

That is a huge post my god.

[Wrekkoning]

So my advise is to first find these people and establish a guild and then, when you have something to offer to other guilds - then think about making a kingdom, which I must say I am not sure who is going to lead, can a Pope be a King, a leader of the kingdom at the same time? He may be a head of the Vatican as a spirtual leader, but I doubt it a messenger of the God can actually take care of diplomacy and generally leading a kingdom, and well, poke around other guilds as he wish.

At this moment every single guild presented have the same goal - create their own feudal kingdom, there are even big communities signed up here, who already have base for doing it.

So what I want to say here is to just start small, that's a friendly suggestion, because people coming here and seeing two guys who wants to rule whole kingdom and have other guilds under their foot looks... well to be honest a bit silly, of course I wish you to succeed but starting small and raising up step by step, this may attract people a little more.

I thought you were a moderator. Why are you offering advice to people who didn't ask for it when they are posting in the proper forums?

Coming from a previous GM and moderator on many past games, you are in over your head. To the Vatican... Gl guys. Keep your eyes set to the stars and make what you want happen.

[Krevente]

I thought you were a moderator. Why are you offering advice to people who didn't ask for it when they are posting in the proper forums?

Ooooh, yeaaaahhh, this is awkward... Arrakis was a guild leader before he became a moderator and was giving his opinion as simply another member of the community at that point in time.

In Arrakis's defense, he did have to make a choice to be a moderator between the community and his guild. He chose the community and was asked to step down from the leadership of the guild he had built for the game.

As a point of support to the community, devs and Arrakis; they are taking a professional approach to developers and moderators and their roles within the game to avoid the drama of past PvP Sandbox games that I think a lot of us are familiar with.

[Wrekkoning]

That's good to know I guess. The professional route would still be having a separate account for yourself since being a moderator shouldn't limit the ability to run or maintain a guild. The moderator account should never have posts like this attached to them either. People click on moderator accounts and see what they have written, just like people do for admin accounts. Guess I may be jaded from past experiences like darkfall for instance:)

[Demonic]

Sigh. Looks like peacefull diplomatic guild is not interesting enough... a lot of PvP gilds got their attention but we are still small... I guess it'll be tough...

[Wrekkoning]

Pvp is all fine and dandy. But Pvp guilds like ours find and set goals they feel they need to accomplish. It could be building a home base or constantly harassing someone's guild that annoys you or even helping a guild you have taken a liking too. Helping a non aggressive guild that is constantly out gunned due to their size or their political stance is something ATS has enjoyed in almost all the games we have played. The option is not always doing it on your own.

[Demonic]

Well, we don't plan on doing it all alone, and we gladly accept PvPers in our ranks, but it seems our peacefull nature is discouraging most people from joining...

[Wrekkoning]

The community is small ATM. And guilds take time. Both are an obstacle you will need to overcome. Until then, look us up IG if you need a hand. Glad to help.

[Thokan]

Besides, the guilds with any members to speak of is generally long-existing ones just putting up a thread here. Don't think you can expect much of any recruitment for a game not even in a real alpha.

Just wait until we're all in-game and you can start spamming general chat. That is where the magic happens.

[Proximo]

It's to early to get discouraged, if you stick with your passion it will pay off. If it's hard all on your own then open yourself to the community. Most of the bigger guilds have played through many games and people come and go. The recruits that stick with you meet you ingame.

[Dailato]

I see there's been some significant discussion happening in my absence, I'd like to thank you all for participating and showing your support.

I agree alot of the growth will come once there is actually a playable game, and I fully expect alot of our "defensibility" will be through good relationships with other guilds, defensive alliances(including the actual Papal States entity), and staying neutral so as to be of use in conflict between other guilds.

As for PvP-ers, I'll admit I was expecting one or two people to be interested in playing as part of the Holy Order.
I'm sure we'll get more than a few once the game gets running, but it's a simple fact that pvp-ers in as hardcore a sandbox game as LiF prefer to have a guild that focusses fully on pvp-activities and preferably doesn't have any moral codes "restricting" them from having their "fun".

All the more reason to offer an alternative for those that do want it.

Our cause is just, our goals epic, and we will not be easily deterred or discouraged from reaching them.
Deum Invictum.

Yours truly -The Pope

[Engellus]

...it's a simple fact that pvp-ers in as hardcore a sandbox game as LiF prefer to have a guild that focusses fully on pvp-activities and preferably doesn't have any moral codes "restricting" them from having their "fun".

Someone has to protect the pope. Someone has to protect the priests and the members of the clergy who travel their lands spreading their benedictions. Frank has the Swiss Guard. You most certainly would have your own, as anyone without a weapon in their hand becomes an appetizing target for the opportunistic war mongers amongst us. And if not yourself with weapon drawn, then certainly those who would act as the guardians of the faith as I said. Also, I do believe there was at least one warrior pope in history. Just some thoughts I've had while reading.

[Proximo]

You have titles upon titles upon titles for what people do in your guild. People will do what they want and if your trying to attract PvPers your going to have to show an affinity for PvP and establish a good core of PvPers or get lucky and find someone to take up the mantle for you which is more unlikely.

These things may fall into place if the games launch is flooded with a large population.

[Arthua]

There is nothing unappealing about a non-pvp focused group. Factions with a community + pvp aspect are actually more interesting.

However, you lack members because there is nothing appealing about your particular group. Your group has no tangible claim to power, and therefore your titles are empty.

You must establish a military force first, THEN you spread your ideologies and holy system. The papal aspect is secondary.

Why would someone want to join your group and gain a title in the Papal States, when your group has no true power. We all love roleplay and imagination, but you cannot imagine up power and influence. You could simply advertise your group as a military state, with the pope twist at the end. Maybe your pope considered the commander + moral authority. Or maybe you have an army with the pope being subsidiary, where the army must give respect and reverence to the pope, etc.

All I am saying is that no one is going to want to live in the Papal States, or respect such, if they cannot be adequately protected.

Humility, and baby steps my friend.