Base Logging

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Rhobert
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Base Logging

Post by Rhobert » 08 Jan 2017, 18:43

Was wondering if there was a way to prevent non guild members from logging off on your claim with Alt just for the pure purpose of being ninja on Judgement Hour? To me this is very much a game breaking exploit that takes a way from the fun of an actual siege when JH hits all they have to do is log in with said alt and bam, they have breached the walls already.


Rusery
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Re: Base Logging

Post by Rusery » 08 Jan 2017, 19:07

Pretty valid concern. Its going to be a large issue with people being able to pay for alts to use as base loggers. Would like to know what the devs think about their use and why they've given so many alts out in the packages.


Wookiee420
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Re: Base Logging

Post by Wookiee420 » 09 Jan 2017, 00:07

352. Any plans to limit where players can logoff - i.e. within the town/city claim of another guild?

Answer: You cannot prevent anyone from unplugging hiss network cable or terminating client process anywhere in the game. We cannot let such character to hang in game indefinitely and it will not be correct to teleport him back to binding point either. I'm not talking about the fact, that it will be VERY hard to track all those logged off characters if they are in the friendly claim or that friendly claim became an enemy claim because of a war declaration recently...


Jwprince806
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Re: Base Logging

Post by Jwprince806 » 09 Jan 2017, 18:59

In short "No, we will not be doing anything." They'd rather the game die off in 3-6 months from base logging than preserve the integrity of the game dynamics (i.e. siege and trebuchet) as they were intended.


Rhobert
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Re: Base Logging

Post by Rhobert » 09 Jan 2017, 23:19

yeah, so is base logging not going to fix, then whats the point in having seige engineering? Full on seige is fun to play out. Not fun when you have medieval unrealistic paratroopers appear out of no where.


Wookiee420
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Re: Base Logging

Post by Wookiee420 » 10 Jan 2017, 00:56

Maximus138513 wrote:yeah, so is base logging not going to fix, then whats the point in having seige engineering? Full on seige is fun to play out. Not fun when you have medieval unrealistic paratroopers appear out of no where.

How do you prevent it? The only thing to do is if you log on someones claim you relog at the border of the claim. Anything else is cheating, if relogging takes you home then you can over weigh yourself and log. You could be losing battle and log out and end up home. But how do you prevent it?

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Knar
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Re: Base Logging

Post by Knar » 10 Jan 2017, 05:58

Base logging wont be fixed according to bobik. Get good, and don't let people log out in your base.

Also there won't be GMs in the mmo to make your monument invulnerable when people log into your base. Get used to that as well :D

There are ways to counter base logging. If you can't fight a force that's already inside your base, you dont stand a chance in a siege anyways.


Rhobert
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Re: Base Logging

Post by Rhobert » 10 Jan 2017, 16:13

Knar wrote:Base logging wont be fixed according to bobik. Get good, and don't let people log out in your base.

Also there won't be GMs in the mmo to make your monument invulnerable when people log into your base. Get used to that as well :D

There are ways to counter base logging. If you can't fight a force that's already inside your base, you dont stand a chance in a siege anyways.


I am looking for the realistic medieval feel that the developers had promised . If base logging is not fixed, then it will be exploited to the point of breaking the game and making certain skills like Warfare engineering pointless. Hell, make walls pointless as well. Because you spend most of your time looking in instead of out.


Wookiee420
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Re: Base Logging

Post by Wookiee420 » 10 Jan 2017, 17:55

Rhobert wrote:
Knar wrote:Base logging wont be fixed according to bobik. Get good, and don't let people log out in your base.

Also there won't be GMs in the mmo to make your monument invulnerable when people log into your base. Get used to that as well :D

There are ways to counter base logging. If you can't fight a force that's already inside your base, you dont stand a chance in a siege anyways.


I am looking for the realistic medieval feel that the developers had promised . If base logging is not fixed, then it will be exploited to the point of breaking the game and making certain skills like Warfare engineering pointless. Hell, make walls pointless as well. Because you spend most of your time looking in instead of out.


Or pay attention and dont let the enemy into your walls........We plan our kingdom like an onion, every layer has a wall protecting it. If you have proper defenses and someone is still able to get into the heart of your base then shouldn't you be at fault?


Kildrith
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Re: Base Logging

Post by Kildrith » 10 Jan 2017, 19:02

its an interesting problem, and I am only against the idea (base logging) because I do think it will break the game a bit, however I would say that base logging is less like paratroopers and more like spies, spies were real and did real things, even in the the time period of the game we are playing.

I can see people getting frustrated and rage quitting, also comments like "get good and pay attention" don't help at all.

The only strategy I can see to counter this is to have a decent sized base with layers of walls and terraforming, which will only work if you have the man power to put that amount of work in, however even with these defenses, the attackers only has to wait for the ONE day that you don't have a full roster of players, and then people would still be able to get to the core of your base during a late night game session, and plant a good handful of alts.

(also small guild vs small guild) Doubt wars and sieges will not draw a lot of attention but a small guild with a small base can never counter a base logging strategy.

Also on the side of a GM defending a monument, while that is kind of lame, I can kind of understand it, if its the two biggest groups on the server and one leaves because they are beaten to the point of starting over after hours and hours of work a lot of players would most likely leave. So yea you lose the satisfaction of stomping your rival but it helps the server in the long run stay up and gives you people to fight.

just for my own curiosity was this on Stone Fortress? I crashed during the last half hour and missed the ending.


Lord_Sitruc
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Re: Base Logging

Post by Lord_Sitruc » 10 Jan 2017, 20:00

Wookiee420 wrote:Or pay attention and dont let the enemy into your walls........We plan our kingdom like an onion, every layer has a wall protecting it. If you have proper defenses and someone is still able to get into the heart of your base then shouldn't you be at fault?


Knar wrote:There are ways to counter base logging. If you can't fight a force that's already inside your base, you dont stand a chance in a siege anyways.


Couple of faults with these arguments.

The get good and don't let them in is a dumb argument. Are you online in LIF at 4am in the morning? 4am east coast is 1am west coast, so all I got to do is get all my west coast players to go and log ladder into your base and log off. Now I am in. I don't care how many layers you have, undefended walls are worthless regardless if you have 1 or 20. They won't keep someone from logging off in your base on off hours.

Walls are force multipliers, so yes, yes you can defeat a siege even if you couldn't beat the paratroopers inside the base, otherwise nobody in history and nobody in game would even use them.

If its not fixed it will simply be whoever declares war will be the ultimate victor, due to prepositioning paratroops inside someones base days before declaring war, waiting a short time before JH/ prime time hours or whatever to declare war so that all their buildings outside the town claim become vulnerable Roflstomping their unprepared defenses and burn their economy to the ground by destroying anything off the town claim. Then log off again, just drop in random times to keep them from rebuilding and wait till they rage quit, or you beat them in open field combat however many times because their economy can no longer keep up with yours.


Wookiee420
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Re: Base Logging

Post by Wookiee420 » 10 Jan 2017, 21:17

Lord_Sitruc wrote:
Wookiee420 wrote:Or pay attention and dont let the enemy into your walls........We plan our kingdom like an onion, every layer has a wall protecting it. If you have proper defenses and someone is still able to get into the heart of your base then shouldn't you be at fault?


Knar wrote:There are ways to counter base logging. If you can't fight a force that's already inside your base, you dont stand a chance in a siege anyways.


Couple of faults with these arguments.

The get good and don't let them in is a dumb argument. Are you online in LIF at 4am in the morning? 4am east coast is 1am west coast, so all I got to do is get all my west coast players to go and log ladder into your base and log off. Now I am in. I don't care how many layers you have, undefended walls are worthless regardless if you have 1 or 20. They won't keep someone from logging off in your base on off hours.



my guild has people on 24/7, so yes there are guildies on at 4am


Lord_Sitruc
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Re: Base Logging

Post by Lord_Sitruc » 11 Jan 2017, 00:52

Ya we had them pretty close to that to, but not alot and not enough to not lose the walls and watch everyone log off.

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Knar
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Re: Base Logging

Post by Knar » 11 Jan 2017, 15:54

Lord_Sitruc wrote:Ya we had them pretty close to that to, but not alot and not enough to not lose the walls and watch everyone log off.

We logged off in your base after jumping the walls and killing you all. Stop lying to make this problem seem bigger than it really is. If you let people into your base the day before a siege, don't be suprised when they log into your base during the siege.

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Brother
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Re: Base Logging

Post by Brother » 11 Jan 2017, 17:10

Knar wrote:
Lord_Sitruc wrote:Ya we had them pretty close to that to, but not alot and not enough to not lose the walls and watch everyone log off.

We logged off in your base after jumping the walls and killing you all. Stop lying to make this problem seem bigger than it really is. If you let people into your base the day before a siege, don't be suprised when they log into your base during the siege.


Although I can see this as a legitimate tactic for two equally sized guilds, it's clearly broken when considering the longevity of the game.

A guild trying to start, let's say, a couple months after Wave 2 could be (and will be) griefed endlessly while trying to get their base up. I don't think anyone can argue that having even ONE guy in plate with real weapons base logged in your monument area when you're still trying to set up would be fun or realistic.

Kill everyone on-claim, logout, repeat. I don't think anyone wants the combat to deteriorate to this.
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Lord_Sitruc
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Re: Base Logging

Post by Lord_Sitruc » 11 Jan 2017, 17:31

Knar wrote:
Lord_Sitruc wrote:Ya we had them pretty close to that to, but not alot and not enough to not lose the walls and watch everyone log off.

We logged off in your base after jumping the walls and killing you all. Stop lying to make this problem seem bigger than it really is. If you let people into your base the day before a siege, don't be suprised when they log into your base during the siege.



All of us? As in the two of us that were on? Did you also kill "All" of the of the other guilds you used the same tactic on that same judgment hour that killed the server? Went from 40 people on at a time per day to 14. If that doesn't tell you what a game killer this will be, your an idiot.

You guys had close to 15 people for Judgement hour VS our 6 and you guys still had to resorted to shit tactics of paratrooping people in. You guys abused it and you didn't even need to multiple times. That tells me right there this is going to be the favored tactic of all the people in the game, which is just great in a medieval game.

I know I love games with space marines falling from the sky, but I think I will go play a game with that as a design feature and not a design flaw thank you very much

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Azzerhoden
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Re: Base Logging

Post by Azzerhoden » 11 Jan 2017, 20:25

Usually you can test the fairness of something by turning it around.

What if the argument was that your character never logged out if you were on someone else's claim. Didn't matter how you lost connection, you just sat there.

It passes the realism test - how well can you hide? Are you Ninja? No? Then you get killed easily.

The fact is that logging out, or disconnecting gives you an easy way to protect yourself from being punished for your actions. Back in EvE, this was a favorite tactic of a lot of people. Hell, I did it myself. Bounce around from safe-spot to safe-spot if the gate was camped, or 'cloak up', until your timer went away.

There is no skill involved, its not realistic, and its open to massive abuse. It doesn't matter if its too hard to code against.

Bitbox needs to find a better way.

UPDATED: A case in point.
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Rhobert
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Re: Base Logging

Post by Rhobert » 12 Jan 2017, 19:27

Totally agree with you Azzerhoden

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Fhoer
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Re: Base Logging

Post by Fhoer » 14 Jan 2017, 15:51

I suggest a delay in enemy/neutral claims, or any claim were you dont have access rights

In neutral claims you stay locked in place for 15-30 seconds after fully login in...
In Hostile/At war claims the "chill time" goes up to 1-2 minute
And you cant log in if a siege is running

Tolerances / exceptions:
- if the server goes down for restart or crash
- the guy logs back in less than 10 minutes (for an eventual crash)
- there wasn't a claim where he logged off
- the claim isn't there anymore
- if you log out and log back during a siege event

The problem about login back in your house is the guy combat login.

And adding in this topic:
login out while under effect of fleeing should keep your char in game until the disabled status goes off times 3...
eg.: if got disabled for more 1 minute after running away and disconnecting, my char should stay in game for 3 minutes.
if i run like crazy and have 10 seconds, my char should stay for 30 seconds
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