soil reinforcement to decrease amount of digging

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Eckister
 
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soil reinforcement to decrease amount of digging

Post by Eckister » 23 Jun 2017, 11:10

Hello!

So ... after having poured my tenth million bit of soil and seeing that Im still not done it occured to me that I should perhaps share an idea Ive had for a while.

When you build, say, a stone wall you cannot pour soil as the system will state that the are is blocked for terraforming. This is somewhat of a non-sense, as a wall could possibly withstand that pressure, but ....

I have done a bit of googling and found, that the idea of gabions has been around for a while now, patented way back in the 1800s. Sure, this game "takes place" in around the 11th century, but even in the middle ages people knew the general thought of reinforcing hillsides to prevent a landslide (similar to a dam, which has also been around for quite the while).

The idea is - could you make a wall which would increase the level of the soil it stands on by, say, 5? Maybe even 10. Or both. :-) This would make building on hillsides waaaaay easier and the result would also look uncomparably better.

I know this is stretching realism a bit, as from the historical standpoint this type of construction wasnt necessarily used in the 10th and 11th century, but hey - it would help us, your players, immensely, if your engine permits it.

Thank you in advance!

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TheHelleri
 
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Re: soil reinforcement to decrease amount of digging

Post by TheHelleri » 23 Jun 2017, 18:30

MSE (Mechanically Stabilized Earth) does go back a long way into history. The thing about it that isn't immediately apparent is that the walls have little to nothing to do with it in regards to large scale builds. They are merely a facing so it doesn't look bad. And indeed on the large scale if the walls were the only thing holding earth back they absolutely would break sooner or later.

What's going on here is that earth is firstly compacted by tamping. Then every x amount of feet in height A layer of fabric or netting is laid down. After which more earth is compacted on top of it. This serves to reinforce earth in a similar manner to how rebar reinforces concrete.

Another part of it is that large section of MSE also have very good drainage. They usually sit on top of and gravel/sand layer. And are top graded towards where that layer is near the surface. This channels water causing it to mostly avoid dissipating through the structure and keeping it relatively dry. Which prevents the earth from inflating by taking on volume. And keeps the reinforcement material from deteriorating as quickly.

Now actually walling does play a part as well. Underneath what you see (or integral to what you see on the surface) is an interlocking layer of wall. But the wall itself is almost never just regular wall. There is something engineered that is invisible to you going on there.

Here is a diagram for reference:
Image

So having back-filled wall in the game wouldn't actually be all that realistic. because that's not the whole of how it actually works. But the game does have the preexisting assets to make to make MSE terraforming a part of the system.

What we would need are blocks of earth on can build on top of level tiles. Basically an object that you can build permanent objects on top of. This would probably be easier than to change how terraforming works (to make new object with a few rule exceptions).

The way it could work is if you level a tile then under masonry you construct an MSE block. It could require dirt, rock, and linen cloth. There could be a whole famiily of these objects (non-movable, built objects that can have other non-moveable built object erected on top of them).


Eckister
 
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Re: soil reinforcement to decrease amount of digging

Post by Eckister » 25 Jun 2017, 10:40

:shock: .... or that. :Bravo: :good: :D

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Hallegra
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Re: soil reinforcement to decrease amount of digging

Post by Hallegra » 26 Jun 2017, 18:23

As nice as this would be, the devs have been consistently implementing changes that reduce the possible terrain difference between 2 tiles. For example, snow used to have a terrain difference of 5m which led to some steep and beautiful looking mountains. That was since reduced to 1.5m and actually led to some issues regarding snow in the north. You can currently use paving as "reinforcement", but according to the FAQs this will soon be patched away.

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TheHelleri
 
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Re: soil reinforcement to decrease amount of digging

Post by TheHelleri » 01 Jul 2017, 20:48

Hallegra wrote:As nice as this would be, the devs have been consistently implementing changes that reduce the possible terrain difference between 2 tiles. For example, snow used to have a terrain difference of 5m which led to some steep and beautiful looking mountains. That was since reduced to 1.5m and actually led to some issues regarding snow in the north. You can currently use paving as "reinforcement", but according to the FAQs this will soon be patched away.


Seriously?! Why would they patch paving reinforcement out? that's an actually useful feature. It really does feel like they are making the system less functional over time. There is a certain point where you have to go hands off with it.

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Hallegra
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Re: soil reinforcement to decrease amount of digging

Post by Hallegra » 19 Jul 2017, 16:53

TheHelleri wrote:Seriously?! Why would they patch paving reinforcement out? that's an actually useful feature. It really does feel like they are making the system less functional over time. There is a certain point where you have to go hands off with it.


I personally loved when they introduced paving as a solution to terraforming issues. It still takes a lot of effort to create a slope such as that and with the new way that buildings lock terrain underneath to stay flat, having steeper slopes that have clearly been reinforced both looks good and requires a builder with additional materials to make

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Thehelleri0
 
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Re: soil reinforcement to decrease amount of digging

Post by Thehelleri0 » 21 Jul 2017, 08:41

One thing I've noticed is that clay paving seems to have been removed. Maybe I am doing something wrong but I can't seem to use clay to pave. I recall that having been something we could do or were supposed to be able to do. It's even mentioned in the tips on the server loading screen.


Dragonis4
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Re: soil reinforcement to decrease amount of digging

Post by Dragonis4 » 24 Jul 2017, 18:27

I would love to see slate paving or shaped rock paving as a top tier roads

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Thehelleri0
 
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Re: soil reinforcement to decrease amount of digging

Post by Thehelleri0 » 27 Jul 2017, 00:04

Dragonis4 wrote:I would love to see slate paving or shaped rock paving as a top tier roads


Slate as top soil on the outside of castle walls looks amazing. Looks pretty good for an arena area as well. Especially with floor lamps at night.


Dragonis4
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Re: soil reinforcement to decrease amount of digging

Post by Dragonis4 » 27 Jul 2017, 16:09

Thehelleri0 wrote:Slate as top soil on the outside of castle walls looks amazing. Looks pretty good for an arena area as well. Especially with floor lamps at night.


True, slate have great texture, now we just need speed bonus, i would love to have it all over my base but i don't want to lose paving speed bonus

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Hallegra
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Re: soil reinforcement to decrease amount of digging

Post by Hallegra » 04 Aug 2017, 19:33

They originally announced clay roads with a 10% bonus and stone with 25%, but they never implemented clay roads. I assume that's due to the fact that clay is way rarer than stone. I would love to see slate being used for better roads and marble, even. Right now, neither of those things are used for much.

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