The Future of LiF's Economy

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Solon64
 
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The Future of LiF's Economy

Post by Solon64 » 02 Nov 2014, 07:01

Obviously as things are still in alpha, there are MANY more things being worked on than an economy balance, but I do hope that the devs have a solid plan, going forward, as to how the economy of the game will work. This might end up being a long post, so bear with me. I'll throw a TL;DR at the end for you ADD folks.

A little basic economy 101 for people here, demand creates supply, and following from that, scarcity creates demand. Wood is going to be pretty darn valuable in a desert, for example, and good amounts of quality rock should be fairly difficult to obtain on a beach or in a forest, for example.

Quality is the key word here. Currently in the game, quality of products produced is based almost entirely on the skill level of the player collecting it: A tree gives you q100 saplings if you max out your forestry, for example, which then plants into a q100 tree, which can be cut down by a grandmaster lumberjack for q100 logs, which can be burned to make q100 charcoal, etc. Grandmaster farmers produce q100 crops, and so on.

This, unfortunately, means that the upper bar is maxed at q100, and when a player hits grandmaster in their chosen skill, they're just pumping out non-stop q100 stuff. Yes, the MMO version will have a skillgain rate of 1.0, not the fairly common 10.0 we see on most servers, but in the end, there's no reasonable limit; players will max out on q100 woodcutting and slam out nothing but q100 wood. Anything less than q100 wood will not only be less valuable, it will be precisely zero value. Absolutely no value at all. Why would I buy wood at q99 when I can find someone extremely easily and quickly that will give me q100, apart from simple time commitment.

The player base will very quickly max their skills, even at the slow skill rate, and from there the curve will turn into a cliff. Everything will be q100, the whole quality system will cease to be important from an economic standpoint. Everyone will have q100 tools, buildings, forges, weapons, armor, you name it, simply because it's easily and quickly available anywhere.

As for how this affects the economy, we have to ask the question: what is the main source of conflict in the human race, apart from humans being brutal, violent, power-hungry creatures? Resources. My neighbor has something that I don't, and I want it. If we want this game to be an entertaining, interactive, PVP-focused sort of medieval life simulator, we need to look at the resources, the base starting point of the whole system.

With q100 resources available everywhere with no challenge whatsoever, the game will trend towards small, isolated, COMPLETELY self-sufficient communities. Every village will have a few farmers providing endless q100 food to feed their smiths producing (nearly) endless q100 equipment. Any equipment less than q100 will be worthless junk not worth looking at other than perhaps melting it down to get some crap iron to train your skills up higher to produce more q100 stuff. The quality system does nothing to promote conquest, trade, PvP, nothing. It's just a number, it's either 100 or nothing.

Here then is my... I hesitate to call it simple, fix to what will quickly be a tremendous issue and leave the world, in the end, dead and uninteresting other than people who like to do nothing but run around and gank people: make quality of goods in a particular area vary.

Here is what I mean: one country/kingdom/village settles in a really nice, peaceful, secluded river valley. This river valley is lush, fertile, perfect for farming. However, this hypothetical river valley has two major issues: the fish there are not as plentiful nor as high quality, the trees don't grow as large or as vibrant, and there are few to no quality ore deposits. In game terms, crops grown in the area would be a base quality level of, say, 60, but trees will never be higher than 30 quality, ore deposits will never be higher than 20, fish will never be higher than 30 or 40 quality, etc. This valley is perfect for farming but little else.

Farmers would flock to this valley. Why wouldn't they? Wonderful crops with high yields. However, you wouldn't see too many woodcutters or miners, it's just not worth their time when there could be better pickings in the next valley over. Why would anyone settle there in the first place then, apart from the farming?

Because other regions have way, WAY crappier farming opportunities. The crops grown in other places would be crap quality because they'd never be higher than a certain limit. The food in this river valley is the entire reason it is important. This right here would be, in my opinion, a perfect reason to claim this valley. Various kingdoms/countries compete with each other in order to claim these wonderful crops. They use metal they get from other, more mineral-rich regions to make the arms and armor they need to hold this valley's food supplies. They bring in stone and wood from yet other regions to fortify the area, build a town, castle, what have you.

Now, this isn't to say that the farmers in the area do nothing but farm. There is still metal and wood and fish and such, but it isn't high enough quality for anything but the basics, nails, locks, simple low-quality tools, etc. The metal-rich region still has farms and fish, but only just enough for sustainability.

What happens is there is STRONG incentive for trade between the regions, if not outright conquest and exploitation. Players construct a road between the regions to facilitate this trade, merchants travel to and from both regions, collecting high-quality metal in the one region to sell in the farming river valley, where they purchase great amounts of high quality grain, vegetables, flax/cotton, etc. to take back to the metal region to sell there. Bandits realize this is a prosperous trade route and start haunting the roadway. The local leaders want to protect their supplies of metal/food and hire/equip soldiers and/or mercenaries to protect the caravans. A nearby kingdom wants to claim the river valley for its own, kick all the farmers out and install their own farmers. The kingdom that currently rules it wants to protect it and they form an army. A war starts, all over this one river valley, and solely because it provides a huge amount of quality food.

Where the game is at now, this war never starts. There is no trade, because why bother taking q80/90/100 metal to a region that can already get it on its own? Bandits probably show up anyway mostly because there will always be players who just want to screw other people over, but that's hardly what you'd call a war. The valley is left to its own devices, the players there make what they'd consider a good-looking village, and then.... what? They just stockpile amounts of grain that aren't needed anywhere else because everywhere else already has its own stockpiles of grain.

Scarcity. Scarcity is what promoted all this conflict and interactivity between areas, what made the game so engrossing. And this is just one river valley. On the other side of the map, a fishing village is constantly under siege from a neighboring kingdom. A mining boom town where gold has been discovered in quality and quantity is defended to the last from raiders looking to steal its wealth. A trading city is founded in a centralized area between several different regions where coin flows freely and people from all walks of life and many different countries/kingdoms intermingle. The capital city imports wheat to feed/breed the warhorses for which they quickly grow famous and use to control their lands, and they gather high quality iron and steel from the distant mountain town to outfit their army in the finest gear.







========================================
TL;DR version
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So for those of you who skipped the wall of text (Wall of Text Crits for over 9000 damage! It's super effective!), here's your synopsis: the game's economy needs SCARCITY in order to last through the ages and promote conflict. Every region CANNOT produce high quality goods of every kind, as then there's no conflict other than just "coating the map in your color" which still means nothing in the end.

If the developers want an engrossing, intriguing economy from which to promote trade, player interaction, and combat, they MUST have different areas specialize in different types of resources. This is how it works in real life, and a point where I find that most MMOs miss out entirely. Look at EVE online: tritanium is everywhere, who cares what happens to tritanium, but look at Arklon, found only in nullsec, and where much of the competition used to happen, simply because it could only be found in that particular region. Quality adds even more depth to the matter, since EVE doesn't even have "quality" of goods.




From a programming standpoint, this shouldn't be all that complex. They can manually "paint" the gameworld with these different resource specializations, or simply write a quick algorithm to have the computer do it for them. Such an algorithm could even simulate some overlap between the regions, particularly because then it would feel a bit more natural than just "oh, this tile has high quality crops, but one tile over and my crops suck."

Now, obviously we don't know exactly where the devs plan to take things from here. It could be that in the future they have something similar to this planned already. But I do feel that this is something that a PvP game should consider very seriously. It gives a very very good reason to do that PvP, other than just running around like madmen butchering someone else merely because they're from "that other guild." Now, it's "that other guild has an extremely valuable region where the best horses in the world are found, let's take it so we can have their horses for ourselves. Sure, we used to buy their horses from them, but they gouged us so hard on the prices, it'd be easier to just take it from them."



*pauses to rest fingers and take a breath* Alright. Does anyone here have any opinions on this? Any pros I might have missed? Any glaring negatives? This is something that ought to be discussed with the hope that the devs see it and make a note or two.

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dingusmcgeehee
 
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Re: The Future of LiF's Economy

Post by dingusmcgeehee » 02 Nov 2014, 11:54

Taken that they might introduce coin pressing at some point in YO. I will largely remove that from my server. We're already using our own currency system which I have been distributing among the players with our own staff run market, several fair tournaments, and random interactions. If people could press their own money, then my economy would crumble.

We've based our currency on a simplified version of old english coinage, with Crowns, Shillings and Pence being the gold, silver and copper. It's pretty fun to use but terribly confusing, however we play a roleplay server and having some kind of bastardised similarities to the old make it fun to use.


Terminus_Zaire
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Re: The Future of LiF's Economy

Post by Terminus_Zaire » 02 Nov 2014, 14:42

I talked with Bobik a bit about this when we were filming the LiF trailer, and he intends to design the game so that areas such as the North have high quality wood but poor soil for farming, the center has great soil but few ore deposits, and the cliffs to the South and West have high ore deposits but low wood or soil sources.

An important thing to note is that the quality of the resources you gather are directly impacted on the LOWEST level, either skill or item quality. For example, if I go to cut a Q60 tree with 50 skill, I get a Q50 log. If I cut that same Q60 tree with 70 skill, the tree is the limiting factor, and only gives Q60.

And then it all comes back to scarcity; quality 100 items are too rare. There should be a normal chance to spawn 90 or less quality items, then suddenly it gets significantly more difficult. I'm talking, 2 Q100 trees per server max. Make people have a heart attack when they find, "THE PERFECT TREE". Make wars be fought over that tree.

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General-Zod
 
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Re: The Future of LiF's Economy

Post by General-Zod » 02 Nov 2014, 18:31

And then it all comes back to scarcity; quality 100 items are too rare. There should be a normal chance to spawn 90 or less quality items, then suddenly it gets significantly more difficult. I'm talking, 2 Q100 trees per server max. Make people have a heart attack when they find, "THE PERFECT TREE". Make wars be fought over that tree.


My order would seek out these trees and cut them down and destroy them in an effort to keep the peace :angel:
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Solon64
 
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Re: The Future of LiF's Economy

Post by Solon64 » 02 Nov 2014, 20:04

So the general consensus here is that different regions would, in the end, have different resource qualities?

Good, that's sort of where I was going with this post, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only person thinking about this system.

May want to think about specifically having good ores in the south and west and not having any decent deposits elsewhere, though. The guilds that control the south and west would have a SIGNIFICANT advantage when it comes to general control, since their warriors would have much better equipment in general, although I guess if armor would require things other than metal (think leather for straps, cloth for padding, etc.) then that would affect the overall quality of the end armor product.

And I didn't mean to sound like skill level would mean nothing, the whole "use the lower of either skill or resource quality for the product" was what I was thinking, yes. Q100 farming to obtain the Q100 farm products in a plentiful region would obviously be important, whereas in the south where farming sucks, you wouldn't need more than 20 or 30 farming skill to get the "max" product quality there.

I do believe that coinage will be implemented in the future, and I do agree that being able to mint your own coins would probably end up unbalanced in that one guild produces massive quantities of wealth. This is as it should be, however, inflation would probably cripple things pretty fast if they could set up a luxury metals operation quickly. It may need to be that coinage is only obtained through selling things to NPC vendors, for a VERY low value. Although you then have to implement some sort of drain on the system, to make sure it doesn't get out of hand, like in WoW or EVE. By drain I mean something along the lines of repairing equipment costing coin for "miscellaneous" parts, or maintenance costs on buildings/trade stalls/keeps requiring coin, just to make sure they were max repair level all the time. Something, and it really should be a lot, keep as much coin out of the economy as possible. Make a few gold crowns worth a LOT.

If you let players mint their own coins, then the drains on the coins should be MASSIVE.

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General-Zod
 
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Re: The Future of LiF's Economy

Post by General-Zod » 02 Nov 2014, 21:07

I do believe that coinage will be implemented in the future, and I do agree that being able to mint your own coins would probably end up unbalanced in that one guild produces massive quantities of wealth. This is as it should be, however, inflation would probably cripple things pretty fast if they could set up a luxury metals operation quickly. It may need to be that coinage is only obtained through selling things to NPC vendors, for a VERY low value. Although you then have to implement some sort of drain on the system, to make sure it doesn't get out of hand, like in WoW or EVE. By drain I mean something along the lines of repairing equipment costing coin for "miscellaneous" parts, or maintenance costs on buildings/trade stalls/keeps requiring coin, just to make sure they were max repair level all the time. Something, and it really should be a lot, keep as much coin out of the economy as possible. Make a few gold crowns worth a LOT.

If you let players mint their own coins, then the drains on the coins should be MASSIVE.


Selling items to a NPC vendor for a lesser value is a great idea. I'm just worried about the emphasis of coinage may be a problem later on with bots/gold farmers. Minting your own coins should be out of the question considering the inexplicable complications that it will cause within the aspect of the game as well as outside (cheating).
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Podj
 
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Re: The Future of LiF's Economy

Post by Podj » 02 Nov 2014, 23:07

There is still one problem tho. you can move your resources.
I mean atm softwood is very hard to find in the south but that problem is easily fixed by running north and gathering good quality sapplings. a few trees later and you have replanted a soft wood forest in the south near your camp. how ever that is basicly the only source of things you actually can transfer. Unlike granite, atm it is useless trying to build castle walls/keeps and such in the south as you would need to run all the way to the big mountain in the north.

i like the idea of stuff being hard to find and only exist in specific places but that would aslo kill the game for people who play on single player servers and for low populated servers. And then we have the biggest issue that iv found.. player activity or basically time people have to actually play the game. iv been unemployed so it havent been such a big deal for me i spend loads of time in the game but having to wait for other people to do their jobb (selected skills) is a pain. luckily you are able to make more characters but that also is bittersweet as it hinders populated cities and trades between people and villages.

The only trade going on at this moment is the flux and herb switching. food is a no brainer as it sucks to make food and you can thrive pretty good on apples alto you have to deal with the XP multiplier to be pretty low.

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General-Zod
 
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Re: The Future of LiF's Economy

Post by General-Zod » 03 Nov 2014, 01:31

There is still one problem tho. you can move your resources.
I mean atm softwood is very hard to find in the south but that problem is easily fixed by running north and gathering good quality sapplings. a few trees later and you have replanted a soft wood forest in the south near your camp. how ever that is basicly the only source of things you actually can transfer. Unlike granite, atm it is useless trying to build castle walls/keeps and such in the south as you would need to run all the way to the big mountain in the north.


I think this can actually be a good thing.

I think fortifications should be limited in a way or eventually there would be huge stone castles everywhere. This is an opportunity for LIF to really show their aptitude by designing different types of fortifications with different advantages and disadvantages.

For example: Lumber forts are ideal for firing arrows in almost all directions (even directly below the wall) something that stonewalls aren't so good at. Stonewalls provide better protection but are easy to clime without notice however, sharpened lumber walls can be destroyed easily with seige but are rather noisy when trying to scale and can damage you near the sharpened edge near the top of the wall if not careful.

This is just with 2 types (stone, lumber) there should be atleast 5 types of castles designs and 6 different types of material to build their fortification from varying on playstyle.
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Tymefor
 
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Re: The Future of LiF's Economy

Post by Tymefor » 03 Nov 2014, 01:33

Have to wait and see if the Decay system affects more than just durability. If it ends up affecting quality then it fixes a lot of your problems. Trees moved and replanted from high quality areas would grow to be a lower quality over time. Using the repair on tools/weapons would fix durability at a cost of quality therefore increase demand for new items constantly. Also it all starts with high quality ore and dirt and that's not going to be available everywhere.

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Tymefor
 
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Re: The Future of LiF's Economy

Post by Tymefor » 03 Nov 2014, 01:54

General-Zod wrote:This is just with 2 types (stone, lumber) there should be atleast 5 types of castles designs and 6 different types of material to build their fortification from varying on playstyle.


Palisade, Wooden wall, Stone wall, Castle Wall and Castle wall with Hoardings. That's 5 already made from Logs, Rock, Shaped Granite, Boards, Mortar and Clay (modules for gates). Maybe a hardened Earthworks before palisade would be nice but really that's quite a lot already.

Customizing fortifications is/will be different skills from construction. Have a look at Combat preparation, I see flaming arrows stands and pitch/oil throwing stands being part of that. Or anything that defenders use to counterattack.

Warfare engineering in the peaceful tree could have static defences that are placed on top of walls, or at base of walls. eg. sharpened stakes, pitfalls and pitch traps.


Solon64
 
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Re: The Future of LiF's Economy

Post by Solon64 » 03 Nov 2014, 02:08

Replanting saplings will obviously be a source of higher quality wood in a lowet quality region, unless you make it so its the region itself that prevents higher quality wood from growing whatsoever. You can plant a q100 oak tree sapling here if you want but it will still only grow into a q20 tree, fot example.

Another economic question comes to mind. Will ores respawn? Even if its on a very long time scale, eventually if theyre static at world creation theyll be depleted. Would be... silly to see no iron at the end of a three year old server with everyone running around in leather smacking each other with sticks :p

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Tymefor
 
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Re: The Future of LiF's Economy

Post by Tymefor » 03 Nov 2014, 02:39

Solon64 wrote:Another economic question comes to mind. Will ores respawn? Even if its on a very long time scale, eventually if theyre static at world creation theyll be depleted. Would be... silly to see no iron at the end of a three year old server with everyone running around in leather smacking each other with sticks :p


Bobik wrote:A rough estimate calculations:
If 5000 players will spend 40 minutes each day mining for iron ore with top quality tools with 100 Mining skill, with someone helping them to move all that ore (they will be only mining) and with some reasons of unlimited stamina, then...

...it will take 10,876 real life days (almost 30 years) to completely mine out all the iron ore in our world.

Well, you understand that such "ideal" mining will be almost impossible in our game, and real time you will spend to mine out that 40 "ideal" minutes might be up to 3-4 hours.

Also, do not forget that you can recycle metal containing items back into ingots/


Podj
 
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Re: The Future of LiF's Economy

Post by Podj » 03 Nov 2014, 03:29

nah its more like 3 walls. wooden wall/palisade same thing, stone wall, castlewall/castlewall with hording. i would like to see (even made thread about this) plasterwall. Also it would be cool with depending on the enviorment changes but bambo walls and such. But its pretty unfair if the north people will be able to make all walls and the southerns only be able to make stone walls. 600 shaped granite for a castlewall is a pain to move just a few meters as you only can carry around 30 but half the map? fak dat. atleast without working 500+ space cart/horseback.

Customizing fortifications is/will be different skills from construction. Have a look at Combat preparation, I see flaming arrows stands and pitch/oil throwing stands being part of that. Or anything that defenders use to counterattack.

Warfare engineering in the peaceful tree could have static defences that are placed on top of walls, or at base of walls. eg. sharpened stakes, pitfalls and pitch traps.
that sounds really cool tho :)

But anyway, i dont think that resource placement should matter for structures. it wont feel fair if some people can build big cool fortresses while i have to live in my dirt shack even if i manage to get better flax plantations.. <_<

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General-Zod
 
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Re: The Future of LiF's Economy

Post by General-Zod » 03 Nov 2014, 08:14

nah its more like 3 walls. wooden wall/palisade same thing, stone wall, castlewall/castlewall with hording. i would like to see (even made thread about this) plasterwall. Also it would be cool with depending on the enviorment changes but bambo walls and such. But its pretty unfair if the north people will be able to make all walls and the southerns only be able to make stone walls. 600 shaped granite for a castlewall is a pain to move just a few meters as you only can carry around 30 but half the map? fak dat. atleast without working 500+ space cart/horseback.


Well, a wooden wall is 1 tier above palisade but I wasn't talking about palisade nor the wooden wall (Tymefor totally missed my point). I was talking about a Stone Castle equivalent with different materials. Not everybody will be able to gather the stone required to build a stone castle in every corner of the world. I don't expect the other options to have the same defensive capabilities as the stone castle but where they lack in defense they can excel in other areas.
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Podj
 
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Re: The Future of LiF's Economy

Post by Podj » 03 Nov 2014, 11:16

hm.. so if i understand you correctly the people on one side of the map would be able to create granite castles while people on the other side would be able to make like marble castles? like the same thing but depending on material in your region?

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General-Zod
 
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Re: The Future of LiF's Economy

Post by General-Zod » 03 Nov 2014, 16:01

hm.. so if i understand you correctly the people on one side of the map would be able to create granite castles while people on the other side would be able to make like marble castles? like the same thing but depending on material in your region?


Here's a rough example of my suggestion:

Image

Here is a prototype map for Life is Feudal which has different terrain according to the region. Currently in game we have Stone Castles which we can assume the far Northern region and the Grassy north region will have plethora of these fortifications raised (due to trading). If you take a look at the south you will notice that aside from that little mountain in the southwest they will be limited to the amount of resources needed to erect a stone castle and trading so far north will be too risky. So I proposed...

(Grass Region) A Pyke Fortress - Doesn't have nearly the strength of castle walls however, when manned these fortresses can be quite deadly due to arrow trajectory at nearly every angle and the use of spears through slits in the walls.
http://www.dreamstime.com/royalty-free-stock-image-ancient-wooden-watch-tower-fortification-image14695266
(Southern Region) Plaster/brick Fortress - Doesn't quite have the stopping power of a castle walls but their circular designs make the walls hard to scale. The low resource cost on the gates allow for multiple exits ideal for Flanks or an escape.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortification#mediaviewer/File:Krakow_Fort31_20070413_1756.jpg
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Solon64
 
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Re: The Future of LiF's Economy

Post by Solon64 » 04 Nov 2014, 01:18

Will it be difficult to raose a stone castle in an area without granite nearby? Yes. But thats the point of playet interaction. Some enterprising young lad could make the trip all thr way north for quality granite and transport it all the way south to sell for huge profit.

Every region will not have every resource in quality. People will adapt or theyll move elsewhere.


Podj
 
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Re: The Future of LiF's Economy

Post by Podj » 04 Nov 2014, 13:17

Well aslong as carts, horses and so on will come in play and work as they should with more space then they currently have then i dont have a problem with it.

But like i said me and some friends are atm building far south and needed 6000 shaped granite which we only could carry around 30-40 each run. A run to the mountain tock about 10-20 minutes then a few minutes to mine and shape the granite and then tp back.

if i did my maths right that would aprox take 1 man 4 days constant running back n forth 30min a run non stop to get that stuff. add work, sleep, eat and so on to that and it would take for ever as of right now.

but if i would be able to take atleast 150 on horseback then hey i dont complain about that.

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General-Zod
 
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Re: The Future of LiF's Economy

Post by General-Zod » 04 Nov 2014, 16:01

You guys are forgetting that while you are waiting for this "enterprising lad" and Horses with attached carts your dwelling will be exposed. Anybody could just walk in and torch/steal/spoil the goods that you worked so hard to produce.
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Arel37
 
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Re: The Future of LiF's Economy

Post by Arel37 » 04 Nov 2014, 16:23

maybe there will be chest carts that needs keys to open or break ?
and prison carts for guys you want to slave
Last edited by Arel37 on 04 Nov 2014, 18:02, edited 2 times in total.


Solon64
 
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Re: The Future of LiF's Economy

Post by Solon64 » 04 Nov 2014, 16:24

Almost makes you wish you were settling near other, trustworthy people, folks who would watch your stuff while youre gone, maybe even help you carry stuff there, eh? I mean, itd be nice if this was like, some kind of MMO :P

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General-Zod
 
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Re: The Future of LiF's Economy

Post by General-Zod » 04 Nov 2014, 18:51

Almost makes you wish you were settling near other, trustworthy people, folks who would watch your stuff while youre gone, maybe even help you carry stuff there, eh? I mean, itd be nice if this was like, some kind of MMO


Sounds like the beginning of a movie.

A small humble village with kind gentle folk whom were raised to be honest and trustworthy. Always willing to lend a hand whether it be at the farm or gathering ore from the mines. A tight knit community teaming with love in their hearts until one day under the cover of darkness...

The other type of people arrived... and they were many. These were not gentle farmers, these were not builders, they lived by the sword and they were prepared...

beware, for they are out there...

(ok i'm done lol)
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Solon64
 
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Re: The Future of LiF's Economy

Post by Solon64 » 04 Nov 2014, 23:42

Just to let te forum know, soon as the mmo releases, i have every intention of forming a large group of bandits to raid every small village we find. We wont kill them though unless they resist. We'll just extort them for money and resources once a week.

I think they call it "protection." Yeah, protection. Thats what those other people were doing, protecting the peaceful community

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Tymefor
 
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Re: The Future of LiF's Economy

Post by Tymefor » 05 Nov 2014, 01:21

General-Zod wrote:
nah its more like 3 walls. wooden wall/palisade same thing, stone wall, castlewall/castlewall with hording. i would like to see (even made thread about this) plasterwall. Also it would be cool with depending on the enviorment changes but bambo walls and such. But its pretty unfair if the north people will be able to make all walls and the southerns only be able to make stone walls. 600 shaped granite for a castlewall is a pain to move just a few meters as you only can carry around 30 but half the map? fak dat. atleast without working 500+ space cart/horseback.


Well, a wooden wall is 1 tier above palisade but I wasn't talking about palisade nor the wooden wall (Tymefor totally missed my point). I was talking about a Stone Castle equivalent with different materials. Not everybody will be able to gather the stone required to build a stone castle in every corner of the world. I don't expect the other options to have the same defensive capabilities as the stone castle but where they lack in defense they can excel in other areas.


pretty sure theres going to be stone everywhere lol. bit rough if there isn't. having to trek just to find some flint. I think what we have is fine. Maybe the dev will find the time to introduce even more wall models. But really that's asking for a lot given that what we have works. If anything id push for more corner options as they are a bit limiting atm. But yeah maybe for stone walls to be more plastery there could be a second option like there are for shacks atm.


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Re: The Future of LiF's Economy

Post by Podj » 05 Nov 2014, 11:58

I agree tymefor about what we have is enough. But i dislike a region being favored like how it is atm. I do very well understand it is an alpha and this prob will change but as of now the north got all the plus while the south got less.

And yes damn i hate the corners for stone walls. i don't want to need a diagonal wall or a tower to build a nice 90 deg corner.

How ever do admit it would be cool to see some regional differences. Specialty if islands are added. Or that depending on which kind of race you select will allow you to build different styles of buildings.
Think of it the way your race/country would change your building styles in age of empire =)

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General-Zod
 
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Re: The Future of LiF's Economy

Post by General-Zod » 05 Nov 2014, 16:01

I agree tymefor about what we have is enough. But i dislike a region being favored like how it is atm. I do very well understand it is an alpha and this prob will change but as of now the north got all the plus while the south got less.

And yes damn i hate the corners for stone walls. i don't want to need a diagonal wall or a tower to build a nice 90 deg corner.

How ever do admit it would be cool to see some regional differences. Specialty if islands are added. Or that depending on which kind of race you select will allow you to build different styles of buildings.
Think of it the way your race/country would change your building styles in age of empire =)


Life is Feudal: Your Own the current models are suitable but If we are talking about a mmo with a 10k server capacity then just the current models aren't sufficient.

Most people are just going to build in the North and just raid south because they won't have the necessary defenses down there to keep them out.

When it happens... just remember I said it first 8-)
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Arel37
 
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Re: The Future of LiF's Economy

Post by Arel37 » 05 Nov 2014, 20:07

What about soil types like type A, type B ?
İn snowy areas there would soil c that very suitable to grow pine trees, in central areas (something like steppes) there will type f that suitable for herding, in riverlands type a that very suitable for apple trees and wheat and more

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General-Zod
 
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Re: The Future of LiF's Economy

Post by General-Zod » 05 Nov 2014, 21:32

pretty sure theres going to be stone everywhere lol. bit rough if there isn't. having to trek just to find some flint. I think what we have is fine. - Tymefor


I'm not sure how long you've been playing LiF but Castle Walls require shaped granite which is made from granite. Granite is only found in the mountain area's (currently) which according to the map I put up is going to be very limited unless you are in a favorable region (north).

Why does this matter? There are other walls.... :crazy:

It matters because castle walls are the only type of walls that can't be cleverly maneuvered. Stone walls are a little harder to "maneuver" but it can be done with alot of time but all the other walls can be scaled by somebody clever enough to figure it out and the climbing skill hasn't been implemented yet.
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Solon64
 
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Re: The Future of LiF's Economy

Post by Solon64 » 05 Nov 2014, 21:49

Just in case you all arent aware, just because certain regions will have more supply of a resource such as granite, doesnt mean other regions will have none, theyll just be low quality is all.

There will be plenty of castles in the south, theyll just have weaker walls.

As for climbing, it will be implemented by release day of the mmo. As will siege equipment, im guessing.


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Re: The Future of LiF's Economy

Post by Solon64 » 05 Nov 2014, 22:12

And as an aside, if the "maneuvering" youre referring to involves the pounce move in combat, then youd be a fool to think they arent going to bug fix that soon.

And if youre referring to a certain console command, theyll probably take a look at that too. Id imagine the easiest way is to make only GMs have the power to /unstuck people. You fall in a hole, submit a ticket and twiddle your thumbs like the silly little dunce you are for falling in a hole :p

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