What we know about the planned MMO war mechanics

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Sharana
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What we know about the planned MMO war mechanics

Post by Sharana » 27 Dec 2016, 05:56

The devs (Bobik mainly) commented on the topic on multiple occasions in different places, but it's all pieces that are hard to get together. If you didn't search the answers on the forum or didn't have the opportunity to ask many questions yourself there are many blank spaces, so I decided to write up what was shared so far with us as 1 big picture and not bits of info. Mainly due to 2 reasons:

1) This stuff is still not ingame and they are developing it in preparation for wave 2 that can't start without it. The more feedback and ideas how to refine the details we provide during the development the less changes they will be making in the future based on tests and feedback.
2) Many don't know how the war stuff will work and this is a good chance to get the idea.

I'm NOT developer and I'm sure they can't decide 100% how everything will work till the development itself is actually done, but they've shared the general idea.

The first thing to know is that there are 2 claims when you build the monument (the ones playing the MMO already saw it) - the town and the real claim (countryside).

The town claim is the inner circle (dark blue) that is with fixed radius of 20 tiles and is ready from the beginning, it doesn't grow in time.
The realm claim is the outer circle (light blue) that is growing just as the LiF:YO monument with time and monument levels upgrades.

The difference between the two is that the town claim with the monument itself is pretty much protected while the countryside isn't. But you can set the personal claims in the countryside area to give protection to the structures and containers there.

For now they are going with the idea of regional servers like 1 world for EU, 1 world for NA and so on. So the battle times will be adjusted for the regional servers during primetimes (like 18:00-22:00 for example). The reason behind such decision is that we all want to see big battles instead of defenses/attacks at 5 a.m. with handful of people if the guilds have the opportunity to select their own vulnerability windows. Also avoiding unconquerable guilds like for example americans on EU server who set their siege time to hours when they have many players while all the EU guilds on the EU server sleep and don't have the numbers to attack them.

So when war between 2 guilds is declared they stop losing alignment for killing each other and assaults on the claims can be planned. The different claims follow different rules.

The realm claim (the countryside) will become vulnerable for raiding during the universal battle window (the mentioned primetime). It will be vulnerable daily in the specific server's universal hours as long as you are in state of war. But vulnerable to the guilds you are at war with only, neutral guilds can't loot or destroy buildings there. To add protection to the buildings and containers on the countryside you can set up personal claims that will defend them. During this battle times (that will be called JH) the enemy will have the opportunity to perform "loud and long" ritual to remove the personal claims on the countryside in order to loot/destroy the stuff on them. If the defenders are active they will have their chance to interrupt the enemy and keep their protection if they can defend the claim. The same mechanic will probably work for the personal claims made somewhere in the wildness.

The town claim (20 tiles radius) will be invulnerable during those raiding (JH) hours - the only way to damage it is a siege. The guild you are at war with can declare you a "Challenge battle" by placing a special ‘Challenge’ monument on the Realm claim and it will take place on the next day after the declaration. The attacker can pick time for the attack (on the next day after the special monument is placed), but it should be inside this server universal battles window (primetime) and the defender can then adjust it by +/- 1 hour. This day in preparation is used from both sides to send invites to whoever they want fighting on their side - be it guild member, allies members or mercenaries (guildless players), players can just get invite (from the defenders/attackers leaders/officers) and sign up for the battle if they want. The battle will be in instance (1 terrain block big or 1/9 of a server node/ YO map in size) and the signed up players will be teleported when the battle starts. It will be just piece of land without any structures or terraforming, open field with small hills if you want. This way the engine and servers performance will allow normal (as lag free) battles of 100 vs 100 at least with aim for 200 vs 200. The anti zerg protection will be 3:1 ratio maximum meaning that if 1 side has only 20 players signed up for the battle the enemy side will fight "only" with up to 60 players even if 200 are signed up. That's still big advantage, so don't count on playing on even ground with bigger alliances only because you have 20-30 good warriors and hope that the instanced battles will be "even" so that you can try to keep yourself safe with "quality" only. There will also be a minimum to prevent 10 man guild to enter with only 4-5 players and force 100 man guild to fight with 12-15 only.

About the battle itself - it will be held over actual terrain blocks from the MMO, not new pregenerated maps for the battles only. They system to determine the winner will be "King of the hill".
They will choose terrains that are suitable for battle (like no cliff in the middle, river, not on islands and so on) and strip the terrain from everything, only trees will stay. Will then prepare all those “blocks” and place the POI (Point of interest) based on that – in some cases it might be bigger, in others smaller. The general idea is that both sides can’t stand in turtle formation on different sides of the POI and just block it, doing nothing. Only 1 side can effectively control the POI (defend) forcing the other one to attack.
No one can build on those battles, only combat preparations. It’s just a field battle. Will prevent sides from “camping” in their spawn and will motivate them to rush for the middle POI (slightly closer to the defender) in order to capture it before the enemy – face to face combat. Cavalry can cap it first of course, but can’t hold it against infantry, can slow down the enemy infantry instead, so that friendly infantry secures it first.
There will be a timer of how long you control the POI, something like 5 minutes. If enemy enters the POI area the timer resets. If you hold it for certain amount of time without resets you win that battle.
The winner of the battle gets all the equipment of the losing army that was dropped on the ground during the battle and the losing guild’s monument sustains damage. The damage can even degrade the monument. Along with the damaged monument, the losers also lose the ability to issue battle challenges for the next 3 real-life days.

So if the defender loses a battle their monument will take damage and eventually degrade in level (after more lost battles). It will take "few" losses to downgrade the momument to level 1 at which point siege can be started and the town claim becomes vulnerable. How long this vulnerability will last is still unknown. The goal is to allow those sieges to be open world where everyone can come (3rd party can loot and destroy too), so you as defender will need all the friends you've ever made on the server there helping you fend off all enemies from your vulnerable town claim (and monument of course). If the tests show that the servers are not capable of that some sort of instanced battle with that castle will has to be formed.

Tl:dr you can raid your enemy daily on the countryside (that will be called JH) without damaging or looting his most valuable stuff. For that you will have to siege the town claim after successfully won instanced open field battles, so the option to destroy the monument and place your own to take over the claim is still there, it's just not easy and fast one.
Last edited by Sharana on 10 Jul 2017, 10:17, edited 2 times in total.
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Saar
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Re: What we know about the planned MMO war mechanics

Post by Saar » 28 Dec 2016, 18:54

Traduction française disponible sur le site von Culm
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Solo_Kamen
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Re: What we know about the planned MMO war mechanics

Post by Solo_Kamen » 01 Jan 2017, 18:53

Big battles only during primetimes... so if someone is working nightshifts, he practicaly is not able to get into the war? Also, if instanced battles will become a thing, I quit the game forever.

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Knar
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Re: What we know about the planned MMO war mechanics

Post by Knar » 01 Jan 2017, 20:34

Solo_Kamen wrote:Big battles only during primetimes... so if someone is working nightshifts, he practicaly is not able to get into the war? Also, if instanced battles will become a thing, I quit the game forever.

Instanced battles pre-siege have been part of the plan since the kickstarter :pardon:


Sharana
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Re: What we know about the planned MMO war mechanics

Post by Sharana » 01 Jan 2017, 21:05

Solo_Kamen wrote:Big battles only during primetimes... so if someone is working nightshifts, he practicaly is not able to get into the war? Also, if instanced battles will become a thing, I quit the game forever.


You can then quit early on to save yourself the disappointment then. Instanced battles were planned since the game was announced. There is no other way to support big lag free battles on terraformed servers.

About the war - you can help your guild economically when you are on night shift, because war is like 90% preparation and 10% actual fighting if you calculate the time. Then fight with them on your days off as I can't imagine someone working night shifts daily.
Besides only very small percent of the playerbase can have weird schedule, the population peak (as amount of players online) will always come to the primetime windows as the aim is to make bigger battles, not smaller ones in weird non populated hours just because guilds will have few players who can be active in such hours.
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Re: What we know about the planned MMO war mechanics

Post by Solo_Kamen » 07 Jan 2017, 04:22

Knar wrote:
Solo_Kamen wrote:Big battles only during primetimes... so if someone is working nightshifts, he practicaly is not able to get into the war? Also, if instanced battles will become a thing, I quit the game forever.

Instanced battles pre-siege have been part of the plan since the kickstarter :pardon:


Well... damn.... :cry:


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Re: What we know about the planned MMO war mechanics

Post by Blackberrygoo » 13 Jan 2017, 16:49

Sharana wrote:
Solo_Kamen wrote:Big battles only during primetimes... so if someone is working nightshifts, he practicaly is not able to get into the war? Also, if instanced battles will become a thing, I quit the game forever.


You can then quit early on to save yourself the disappointment then. Instanced battles were planned since the game was announced. There is no other way to support big lag free battles on terraformed servers.

.


Yes you can , by not having crap code , we all know LIF is one of the worst coded MMOs out there , why else would their "beta " phase be such a mess ? Beta should be in need of polishing , not dealing with massive server outages for days or even weeks on end . LIF was doomed from the start when it decided it "needed" terraforming , what's good does it really do anyways ? Just makes eyesores everywhere and creates terrible server lag . Instances battles are poop and I'd rather wait for chronicles of Elyria to come out so I can play a proper MMO that isn't watered down by bad code and design decisions .


Sharana
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Re: What we know about the planned MMO war mechanics

Post by Sharana » 10 Feb 2017, 11:06

Updated with more info from the last interview with Bobik - mainly explaining the instanced battle itself.
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Saar
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Re: What we know about the planned MMO war mechanics

Post by Saar » 10 Feb 2017, 12:57

Mise à jour traduite sur von Culm

Thanks Sharana
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Azzerhoden
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Re: What we know about the planned MMO war mechanics

Post by Azzerhoden » 11 Feb 2017, 15:26

Thank you for summarizing Sharana.

Bobik is wrong about these time limitations though. I have said it before and will continue to say it. While I understand the desire to avoid siege battles in off hours it completely screws over international guilds by marginalizing those players not active in the designated 'prime time'.

Unfortunately I don't have a better solution. :(
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Re: What we know about the planned MMO war mechanics

Post by Linbaba » 11 Feb 2017, 21:07

it sounds good to me, although it does also sound "complexe", or maybe excessively complicated.

I guess that'll change once it's live though.


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Re: What we know about the planned MMO war mechanics

Post by Ragemaster9999 » 07 Mar 2017, 21:41

let guilds choose a vulnerability window of +- four hours. This is how it works in eve online and has worked fine in that game for years


Sharana
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Re: What we know about the planned MMO war mechanics

Post by Sharana » 07 Mar 2017, 21:53

Ragemaster9999 wrote:let guilds choose a vulnerability window of +- four hours. This is how it works in eve online and has worked fine in that game for years


The goal is not to get your claim destroyed at 5 a.m. or untouchable guild with many americans/asians who can defend EU claim while everyone else in EU sleeps.
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Re: What we know about the planned MMO war mechanics

Post by Ragemaster9999 » 08 Mar 2017, 02:47

Sharana wrote:
Ragemaster9999 wrote:let guilds choose a vulnerability window of +- four hours. This is how it works in eve online and has worked fine in that game for years


The goal is not to get your claim destroyed at 5 a.m. or untouchable guild with many americans/asians who can defend EU claim while everyone else in EU sleeps.


then your locking out players from content who play at off peak times


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Re: What we know about the planned MMO war mechanics

Post by Brett5290 » 20 May 2017, 07:42

We have real Life you know. Offline raiding is just a bad idea in any game. We need a game that works with the real world :P


Sharana
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Re: What we know about the planned MMO war mechanics

Post by Sharana » 10 Jul 2017, 10:02

Updated, because so many players had no clue what the devs annonced in the latest devblog - more precisely that the instanced battles aren't everything and they are NOT the siege event and there is still point in building walls as the fate of the castle won't be decided in the field.
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Sharana
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Re: What we know about the planned MMO war mechanics

Post by Sharana » 13 Jul 2017, 20:27

Bobik shared some more details in private conversation today. I will update the 1st post when I have more free time.

Currently - the cost of war that was mentioned earlier has nothing to do with war declaration (that will still be free) - it's cost to wage war. Building those challenge monuments to fight instanced battles won't be free. And that's what real wars are all about.

For the instanced battles he confirmed again that they are still going with the primetime window. Currently for example 19:00 - 22:00 server time (regional servers after all).
So if the challenge monument is placed on monday 19:30 then the battle will start on tuesday (next day) 19:30.
If you do it earlier like 11:00 on Monday it will start 19:00 on tuesday (earliest timeframe).
If you do it later like 23:50 it will be for tuesday 22:00 (latest timeframe).
And if you declare it on tuesday already like very early at 0:30 then the battle goes for wednesday already 19:00 (earliest setting).

The amount of possible battles depends on the monument level. The currently standart tier 3 monument means you can attack up to 3 guilds in the same evening. Also up to 3 othe guilds can attack you. That means up to 6 instanced battles per evening. For tier 2 it's 2(so 4) and for tier 4 - 4(so8). Tier 1 can't challenge other guilds to instanced battles and can't be challanged by others also. But don't worry - that's not "noob protection". Having level 1 monument means the enemy can go with a siege right away without the chance to avoid such event by winning in the instanced battle.

Each lost battle will burn through the support points and reducing the claim size/monument level. Yes monument can be upgraided back, but it's not instant process (of getting enough influence to upgrade to the next level) and it will be balanced in a way where losing most of your instanced battles won't allow you to avoid the siege event by simply upgrading the monument all the time.

Hope I didn't miss much ;)
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Karabas
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Re: What we know about the planned MMO war mechanics

Post by Karabas » 14 Jul 2017, 01:39

so 4 firendly guilds -each 2nd lvl monument - is enougth to avoid wars at all - just friendly challenging each other...
well, more whan 4 - need to count a timer for losing battle, so need more fake guilds.....
need more info, its too early to judge :angel:
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Re: What we know about the planned MMO war mechanics

Post by Dragmar » 14 Jul 2017, 08:52

Karabas wrote:so 4 firendly guilds -each 2nd lvl monument - is enougth to avoid wars at all - just friendly challenging each other...
well, more whan 4 - need to count a timer for losing battle, so need more fake guilds.....
need more info, its too early to judge :angel:


Well, he did say there was gonna be a cost to challenging, so I doubt people would want to keep doing that every single day.
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Karabas
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Re: What we know about the planned MMO war mechanics

Post by Karabas » 14 Jul 2017, 11:02

well.... noone knows this "PRICE" so far...... but i bet it will be less whan a risk or losing ur base 8-)
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Sharana
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Re: What we know about the planned MMO war mechanics

Post by Sharana » 17 Jul 2017, 14:39

Karabas wrote:so 4 firendly guilds -each 2nd lvl monument - is enougth to avoid wars at all - just friendly challenging each other...
well, more whan 4 - need to count a timer for losing battle, so need more fake guilds.....
need more info, its too early to judge :angel:


The answer to that question was that the fake attacker will lose monument level as well. So in theory such tactic is possible - make like 10 fake claims and attack the main all the time to prevent the enemy from doing so. But those fake claims will be losing monument level too after each battle, so the enemy can just siege them (level 1) and destroy those monuments. With the cooldown on switching guilds there will be no time to create new ones, build monuments and wait to collect the needed points for level 2 upgrade (in order to start placing fake battles again). So the enemy will still be able to get your main claim even if it will be harder when enemy uses such "tactic".
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