What we want in Premium mode?

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Cian
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Re: What we want in Premium mode?

Post by Cian » 06 Dec 2016, 22:09

What I'd like to see:

* Only premium can craft Royal Armors
* Premium can put maker mark on weapons and armor
* Only premium can create Kingdom (Order and villages non premium)
* Only Premium can craft boats or trade carts (When implemented)
* Only premium can craft siege engine


Seems like alot? Well, lets flip the script. If I am going to pay PER CHARACTER to get off the newbie island, why should I subscribe?

If I am a premium subscriber should I not by default get advantages over the non-premium players? Why else would I subscribe?

I don't think most players are going to get conned into subscribing for a little luck bonus and an hour's worth of skill gain bonus a day.
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Sharana
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Re: What we want in Premium mode?

Post by Sharana » 06 Dec 2016, 23:09

You would subscribe, because you are fine with throwing some money at the devs (like 5-10 Euro/month) who let you have fun, the boosters, skins, storage in the central city and other stuff is bonus. If you want something specific just use the shop to buy it.

What you propose is exactly the p2w bullshit everyone (well almost I guess) tries to avoid. I mean limiting the craft? If some smith gets lucky enough to actually collect the blueprints for royal armor he should be able to craft it and possibly sell it for decent fortune. If he has to pay real money first that's p2w - isn't that the case when something endgame isn't available for non paying players?

Same with boats, carts and siege equipment. I can't imagine more p2w stuff if you have to pay real money to form a Kingdom and go siege someone...

Marking your weapons and armors with "crafted by ..." is great however, it should have been available to all not with just 1% chance, but as it's cosmetic it's perfectly fine to put it on the premium side together with skins.
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Cian
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Re: What we want in Premium mode?

Post by Cian » 07 Dec 2016, 01:20

Sharana wrote:You would subscribe, because you are fine with throwing some money at the devs (like 5-10 Euro/month) who let you have fun, the boosters, skins, storage in the central city and other stuff is bonus. If you want something specific just use the shop to buy it.


No sorry. This is a business and I am a customer they are trying to court and coax money from on a daily/monthly basis. If they are going to try to get my monies three different ways (Cash shop, Subscription, Character Tickets) then they better make it worth my while to spend the money.

If they seriously want people to subscribe for a monthly fee then there needs to be some sort of advantage to doing so.

In fact the majority of games that utilize subscriptions in conjunction with cash shops have significant bonus's that actually make the subscription worth paying OR they lock high end content behind a paywall.

Look at what LIF is. There are very few benefits that they can offer a premium subscriber. There are no levels, no gold coins of real use, no magic items really. The only thing they can offer are skill boosts, monthly premium currency deposits, reputation boosts, and skins. Beyond that unless they lock the free accounts behind a paywall then you really are not getting much for your subscription.

Also no your definition of P2W is wrong. P2W is when the inherent advantages of having a subscription are so good that the non-subscription account is forced to pay up or be unable to compete. Limiting high end crafting doesn't do that because those players can still obtain those items through other means. Royal Armor is intended to be so rare that being unable to craft it due to a paywall would have literally zero effect on "winning" unless you consider crafting your first suit of Royal Armor and then quitting in happiness as "winning"
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Styxwash
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Re: What we want in Premium mode?

Post by Styxwash » 07 Dec 2016, 02:23

Sharana wrote:Well don't you do absolutely the same anyway when you play on slow progression speed? Prepare lots of materials, grab the best food available in the guild (which is in very limited numbers) eat 5 times for best multiplier and craft everything you've prepared.


True, I suppose you can compare, but it will still offset the playstyles abit.

But my main concern is that the skill gain for one such setting is going to be pretty significant or a limited time booster wouldn't be worthwhile purchasing.

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Artoria Pendragon
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Re: What we want in Premium mode?

Post by Artoria Pendragon » 07 Dec 2016, 05:11

1.More carrying weight
2.More cosmetic stuff that can be choosed (eye,hairsyle,ear,tattoos,ect,just like the game MABINOGI )
3.Unique title showed in the game
4.Death with more less skillpoints loss(or just less skillpoints loss if above -49)
5.More lucky to do somthing (not good,less P2W)
6.If above -49 and can increase it to 0 by praying but never >0

:%)
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Re: What we want in Premium mode?

Post by Saar » 07 Dec 2016, 06:47

6.If above -49 and can increase it to 0 by praying

I'm totally against this!
It a non-sense and it let's the door open to evrything. Players will do kos and robber without any limitations!
Alignment is the system for avoiding bad behavior.

If you can overpass the system by paying... Arg! :evil:

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Re: What we want in Premium mode?

Post by Weye » 07 Dec 2016, 07:28

I'm against the carry weight increase, death with reduced penalty, luck increase, and the alignment change, all those are blatantly p2w, all of them bypass a restriction placed on regular members or in the case of the alignment, completely removes the significance of the criminal system.

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Artoria Pendragon
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Re: What we want in Premium mode?

Post by Artoria Pendragon » 07 Dec 2016, 09:49

Weye wrote:I'm against the carry weight increase, death with reduced penalty, luck increase, and the alignment change, all those are blatantly p2w, all of them bypass a restriction placed on regular members or in the case of the alignment, completely removes the significance of the criminal system.

then the Premium membership will be worthless,all it can be slightly,for example, weight-carring increasing just from 140 to 145 or 150
Last edited by Artoria Pendragon on 07 Dec 2016, 10:14, edited 4 times in total.
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Artoria Pendragon
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Re: What we want in Premium mode?

Post by Artoria Pendragon » 07 Dec 2016, 09:52

Saar wrote:
6.If above -49 and can increase it to 0 by praying

I'm totally against this!
It a non-sense and it let's the door open to evrything. Players will do kos and robber without any limitations!
Alignment is the system for avoiding bad behavior.

If you can overpass the system by paying... Arg! :evil:


it can be very slowly, if the bandits regret to do what they did,they still have a chance , if they do it again,then even Premium mode cant help them anyway.
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Ubaciosamse
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Re: What we want in Premium mode?

Post by Ubaciosamse » 07 Dec 2016, 15:10

If in the shop there is anything except cosmetics, not avaiable to a common player that bought the game, I personaly and i know no one cares about that will completely abandon the whole life is feudal world/idea. What is even worse that the wave 1 is now close and we have to wait months on months for definitive answer.
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Saar
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Re: What we want in Premium mode?

Post by Saar » 07 Dec 2016, 16:10

Yep, I think devs can do more money with only cosmetics than if they propose any kind of boosters. Players hate P2W especially hardcore gamers as us for LiF. I fear any proposal about booster or advantage will be assimilated by community to P2W.



The thing I hope it's about the price. I hope they will propose low to very low price. I'm nearly sure it's more reliable for them to give cosmetic in low price than a regular affordable price.

I play to Heroes of the Storm since its release, cosmetics and heroes price are insane. Really. About 9€ for a skin!
I never bough and probably never buy something in this game (some of them are really beautifull but... i won't).

I played a lot of time to World of Warcraft for 5 years. Their mounts and pets are expensives too (20 and 10€). Never buy something.

In GW2, I played only few month, as the skin price were low, I buy for about 50€...
In my opinion, the price is very very important and, maybe devs team can do some tests with differents prices to see by themself which is more reliable for them.

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Re: What we want in Premium mode?

Post by Wortnes » 07 Dec 2016, 17:35

What i would like to see in the In Game Shop:

-Cosmetic Itens skins, as new armor, clothes, weapons and Tatoos/Hair/beard, House, etc.
-Character rename/appearance change
-Low q food (max multiplier 1 or something like that, just so you dont die of hunger)
-Low q Basic tools (like primitive tools or low q iron tools, for those who want to jump right into the building/lvling 20 minutes before the others.

Maybe could be a rule like not selling anything over 40q on the shop, and nothing beyond tier 1 craft, so this items would be ONLY to gain some time. They would be cheap too.



What i expect from the Premium Time:

-Discounts for the In Game Shop and special free itens from time to time
-Exclusive skins for weapons and etc
-Remember those low q itens from shop? That, in newbie form. Cant lose your stone pickaxe now when you pay the rent.
-Pray home/bring friends (some kind of limit here)
-Redeemable set of clothes (so you will always have a nice suit on, gentleman, no stats, only for show, unlootable/untradable)
-Spot on the main city. If you pay rent, you should have at least a bank there. If you pay enough maybe have a city house with VERY LIMITED storage. (Very limited as in i cant store 300 horses and 1000 armor sets there on my safe)



What i dont want to see there
-Faster lvling. ANY amount of this would be p2w
-Bigger claims trough shop or premium. That would be p2w too.
-Faster crops or faster building or faster crafting. Anything faster would be p2w.
-Return from -50 align, or gain align on any form.
-Good Weapons/armor/tools/itens. P2w.
-Any animals/seeds/livestock. Please dont.

Pretty much that.
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Re: What we want in Premium mode?

Post by Azzerhoden » 07 Dec 2016, 19:21

Saar wrote:Others ideas:
- A arena in central city where everybody can see the match but only Premium can join.
Winner of each match keep the control of the Arena. After a full day, he became the Master of the Arena and obtain a title and a unique skin.
This seems to theme-park to me.


Saar wrote:- A character with x100 on skillpoint learning ONLY on the island. Cant transfert it.
Usefull for testing a new job, combat training or assisting a friend's first step on LiF.

You can do this already in LIF-YO. The newbie island is for newbies trying out the game as a consideration for buying, not for players to test things on. It will be bad enough that some players will use this as an opportunity to grief other new players just coming to the game.
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Azzerhoden
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Re: What we want in Premium mode?

Post by Azzerhoden » 07 Dec 2016, 19:29

I don't get why so many people are so freaked out about the skill GAIN consumable item. They go completely mental over a mechanic that is already in the game.

Do you know that with cookies you can raise your skill multiplier to over 2? So if the premium service just gave a cookie every day - those players would have an instant advantage at the beginning of the game.

if they decided to give away low quality food, then something that only granted a .25 skill modifier would be more appropriate, but frankly, I wouldn't consider that service worth paying for.
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Azzerhoden
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Re: What we want in Premium mode?

Post by Azzerhoden » 07 Dec 2016, 19:46

After giving it some thought, the list that Sharana has posted before is enough for me to subscribe. However, here is a few other points.

  • There should not be anything taken away from the current game play for non-premium players.
  • There must not, under any circumstances, be anything related to changing a players alignment.
  • Anything added should cost Gods Favor (including skill GAIN consumables.
  • Any skill GAIN multiplier items should come in the form of a consumable that can be looted/stolen/sold on the marketplace, and should add no more than 1x to the players current skill gain multiplier.
  • Players should be able to purchase unique character meshes with Gods Favor. Despite the quality of the game, Ork players in Eternal Crusade can purchase peg legs and other 'orky' meshes that add to the flavor of that game.
  • Cosmetic items should contain race specific item meshes and Kingdom/Order/Guild specific item meshes. By this I mean the leader of the Kingdom should be able to have a crown for their head slot that would not be available to the rank and file or anyone in smaller organizations.

I keep emphasizing the word GAIN, because so many people seem to think that they are purchasing skill.
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Re: What we want in Premium mode?

Post by Janisrubins » 07 Dec 2016, 20:29

* Premium tools for people who bought golden package, like 100% AXE 100% Hammer starting package.
* VIP support from developers, so our request and wish will be solved at first
* 1-2 indestructible items
* VIP access to server, I mean there will be always reserved place for Zealous believer package users.
* Faster crafting, but a little bit.
* Chance to choose one skill and upgrade it 90%

If the developers are asking such a price for the gold package I want the very good service back. So if you are requesting high price, than service for us should be very good and our wishes at first place.


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Re: What we want in Premium mode?

Post by Sharana » 07 Dec 2016, 20:34

Janisrubins wrote:* Chance to choose one skill and upgrade it 90%


No way, because 90 skill is supposed to take months. As for the pack - that is not premium. You buy many stuff in the pack like character slots, YO (standalone game), currency, premium and other stuff. The thing in question is what PREMIUM (1 item in the pack) should give.
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Re: What we want in Premium mode?

Post by Azzerhoden » 07 Dec 2016, 20:37

Janisrubins wrote:* Premium tools for people who bought golden package, like 100% AXE 100% Hammer starting package.
* VIP support from developers, so our request and wish will be solved at first
* 1-2 indestructible items
* VIP access to server, I mean there will be always reserved place for Zealous believer package users.
* Faster crafting, but a little bit.
* Chance to choose one skill and upgrade it 90%

If the developers are asking such a price for the gold package I want the very good service back. So if you are requesting high price, than service for us should be very good and our wishes at first place.


You're Funny!

People who bought the Zealot package knew what they were getting when they bought it. They deserve nothing else. This thread is about what folks would like to see from a premium service (as in, those who subscribe).
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Re: What we want in Premium mode?

Post by Janisrubins » 07 Dec 2016, 20:41

Developers are asking high price for the golden package, money is not issue. But I expect also to receive good service for such a price.

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Re: What we want in Premium mode?

Post by Wortnes » 07 Dec 2016, 21:52

Azzerhoden wrote:
Saar wrote:Others ideas:
- A arena in central city where everybody can see the match but only Premium can join.
Winner of each match keep the control of the Arena. After a full day, he became the Master of the Arena and obtain a title and a unique skin.
This seems to theme-park to me.


Saar wrote:- A character with x100 on skillpoint learning ONLY on the island. Cant transfert it.
Usefull for testing a new job, combat training or assisting a friend's first step on LiF.

You can do this already in LIF-YO. The newbie island is for newbies trying out the game as a consideration for buying, not for players to test things on. It will be bad enough that some players will use this as an opportunity to grief other new players just coming to the game.




Yeah, bad idea the arena thing. Hope we dont get any of that.

Also, the 1 skill to 90 thing... No. Please no.
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Re: What we want in Premium mode?

Post by Cian » 07 Dec 2016, 22:45

Premium membership should give small consistant bonus.

* small skill gain boost X hours per day
* Cash shop discount
* increased luck
* lower taxes in the NPC city
* exclusive skins
* Exclusive heraldry options

The key word is exclusive. Something that a subscriber gets that a non-subscriber doesn't. Otherwise why subscribe? Exclusive doesn't have to mean Pay 2 win.

Personally I feel like you all don't understand what pay 2 win is. People throw this term around like confetti. This is a sandbox game. What exactly is winning? Buy all the skill gain boosters you want, eventually someone is going to knock your sandcastle down and there is nothing you can do to stop them. This is a sandbox game. Winning is subjective and there are no levels or magic items to make that more or less likely.
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Sharana
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Re: What we want in Premium mode?

Post by Sharana » 07 Dec 2016, 23:03

Cian wrote:What exactly is winning?


Political, economical and military domination. If guild A is composed of mainly "paid" players and guild "B" of mainly unpaid ones then the said guild A shouldn't have clear advantages only thanks to real money. That means very speeded up leveling so that they unlock important skills ahead of others and gain advantage, can craft special things to get economical advantage and so on. That's why suggested stuff like creating Kingdom, building siege engine for paid users only is extremely p2w.
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Cian
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Re: What we want in Premium mode?

Post by Cian » 08 Dec 2016, 02:45

Sharana wrote:
Cian wrote:What exactly is winning?


Political, economical and military domination. If guild A is composed of mainly "paid" players and guild "B" of mainly unpaid ones then the said guild A shouldn't have clear advantages only thanks to real money. That means very speeded up leveling so that they unlock important skills ahead of others and gain advantage, can craft special things to get economical advantage and so on. That's why suggested stuff like creating Kingdom, building siege engine for paid users only is extremely p2w.


You and I have two different idea on what Pay 2 win is. First off you used a highly unlikely scenario to make your point. Most guilds will have a mix of cash shoppers, premium subscribers, and F2P folks.

Second, its not pay to win if you can achieve the same thing albeit slower than a subscriber. Interestingly enough, I find it unlikely that you'd complain about an entire guild of power players who grind their skills at maximum efficiency and achieve the same domination until everyone catches up.

Finally, they can lock all of that stuff behind paywalls and still not make it P2W. Want to know how? They throw one time use blue prints on the cash shop. Then you have a choice. You can either subscribe and do all of that stuff full time or you can purchase the blue prints on a case by case basis as you need.

There. Then its not pay 2 win but subscribers still get something somewhat decent for their continued monthly support.

Look we can argue about this all day long. We've both used wonky illustrations to argue our points. Ultimately the benefits to being a monthly subscriber NEED to outweigh simple being a cash shop grazer or nobody is going to subscribe. Its all about cost vs benefit. I don't care what the bonus is as long as it's worth me spending that monthly fee.
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MrTopbanana
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Re: What we want in Premium mode?

Post by MrTopbanana » 08 Dec 2016, 04:33

I know that, if the devs will take Cians ideas, thoughts, 90% of the people i know will not play.


Iam pretty sure they would earn more in the long term, if there wont be any real p2w contet. Blueprints, skill boosts and so on are all p2w.
pay2win does mean that u get a advantage above someone who dont pay real money.


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Re: What we want in Premium mode?

Post by Littlepopo » 08 Dec 2016, 05:38

hello


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Re: What we want in Premium mode?

Post by MrSandman70 » 08 Dec 2016, 14:41

I would not want to see anything beyond cosmetic or novelty. the extra storage space suggestion may be acceptable but is still borderline in my opinion. People will pay for cosmetics so long as they are reasonably priced and truely unique. It would absolute add flair to the battlefield, might even be a good idea to color code infantry regiments. Skills booster im still on the fence about. I can see how it would really help out the casual player who only gets in game a couple hours a night, but see where it would be abused for hardcore players...at first. eventually, after some length of time everyone will max out their skills so progression will be moot point. Personally though, i think cosmetic armor, weapons models, or character creation options would be best. But, still, they need repeat customers to keep the funds flowing, so maybe ill bite on the skills potions


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Re: What we want in Premium mode?

Post by MrSandman70 » 08 Dec 2016, 14:50

MrTopbanana wrote:I know that, if the devs will take Cians ideas, thoughts, 90% of the people i know will not play.


Iam pretty sure they would earn more in the long term, if there wont be any real p2w contet. Blueprints, skill boosts and so on are all p2w.
pay2win does mean that u get a advantage above someone who dont pay real money.



The most critical time for a player to decide whether to stick with a game or not i would argue is will the start up. I agree that if there are players who power leveled up to high tier within days, while other new players trickling in are struggling against the trollish bandits(of which there will be many) most people like you say will stop playing. period. The devs need to keep this in mind, not just what paid players get vs non paid, but what kind of initial advantages that may give those paid players and how that may turn away late comers to the game.

I have no problems with paid players getting special goods, after all, they pay for the game that others play for free. However i have a huge problem with paid players getting advantages over other players.

Its not quite the same system here, but Planetside seems to have a good model. a lot of cosmetic items to buy, along with premium currency to buy which can be used to unlock gear. but since unlocking gear is non-linear no one gets anything that someone else cant get any quick.

i love this game, but if paid players get significant advantages over non paid players then it will truely turn into a feudal lord/serf system. those will the money control, while those with out suffer their petty moodswings

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Azzerhoden
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Re: What we want in Premium mode?

Post by Azzerhoden » 08 Dec 2016, 15:29

A point that seems to get missed a lot is what happens to those perks that were granted under premium service when the player unsubs?

  • Having access to a 'bank' in central city? Access lost but items still stored is a viable outcome.
  • Purchased consumables for skill gain boost? Still in inventory
  • Cosmetic meshes purchased? Still available
  • Housing in Central City? Well now, that's an interesting question unless its instanced.

Gifts like blueprints are not p2w. They still have to be made, and are looted on getting killed. Having tested heavy armors after the latest combat patch I can assure you that they are better then regular armor, but not over-powered.

That said, giving them as a reward would make me uncomfortable.

Not sure how exclusive heraldry would work, as it would have to be for the entire guild. I suppose if it was purchased at a high price, then it would work. Certainly not game breaking as its a cosmetic add.
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Re: What we want in Premium mode?

Post by Cian » 09 Dec 2016, 00:29

MrSandman70 wrote:i love this game, but if paid players get significant advantages over non paid players then it will truely turn into a feudal lord/serf system. those will the money control, while those with out suffer their petty moodswings


Man I hate to burst your bubble but this game is going to be a feudal Lord/Serf system through natural progression. Kingdoms and alliances will rise and fall.

You can be the decision maker or one having decisions thrust on you. There will not be much in between unless you can convince larger kingdoms and alliance to treat you neutrally and totally ignore you.

It ain't called "Life is Feudal" for no reason.
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Re: What we want in Premium mode?

Post by MrTopbanana » 09 Dec 2016, 03:51

Funfact: the king of your kingdom, with a very high chance is:
1) someone who failed in his own life and got no job or work only a few hours.
2) a school boy
3) a student who gief a fack about pass/ finish the exams - a long time student

Its a reverted world, people who work and/or have children will be the pleb and the lonely ones who either work for this parents in real life or dont work at all, are the kings! :D

So actually a premium thing with nice stuff would be awesome, but some hardcore failers aehh gamers will buy this packs too and it wont be fun anymore.
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