Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Dragonis4]

Problem no. 1: efficiency of transport

Wheelbarrow, cart and trader cart are way to slow to be useful, increasing general speed is out of the question because pushing wheelbarrow would be faster then normal walking without draining stamina and that makes no sense. Increasing storage is no better.

Allow holding shift to increase speed and drain stamina seems only reasonable solution to this problem. Also much bigger speed bonus on road.

Problem no. 2: carts used as storage instead of using containers

Decreasing storage of carts will just make them more useless then they are, and containers storage looks good atm so i would not play with that.

To make them to what they should be (as transport not all rounded storage) i see 2 solutions, increasing cost of all of them something around x2 or make them lootable by enemies even when they are standing on claimed area. Both of these solutions should decentivize players from using carts instead of chests and wardrobes.


Wheelbarrow

Current use: farming sticks and billets, not useful for anything else really but in many cases you are better off with packing all small items to your pocket and just running overburdened
Desired use: fast trips with soil and stone
Change: transport only soil stone and ore
Reasoning: soil and stone is heavy and moved very often, wheelbarrow should find it's use there, also irl that is exactly the purpose of wheelbarrow. It will give wheelbarrow unique role and cart will not make it obsolete

Cart

Current use: primary as a container, sometimes used for moving billets and desks
Desired use: transporting verity of items short at medium distance
Change: additional speed from allowing run (shift) and bigger speed bonus from road should be sufficient
Reasoning: current use is very limited, only small objects fit in them such objects don't weight much so you would always carry them on foot. it's not much more expensive then chest so it's much better option for storage atm

Trader cart

Current use: storage only
Desired use: transporting verity of items at long distance
Change: additional speed from allowing run (shift) and bigger speed bonus from road should help
Reasoning: when you are finally able to craft it you already have horses that are much better (much faster and more secure) way of transport. 1 trip takes long time that you need to commit to finish it, on horse runs don't have that time commitment. 2 wardrobes cost comparable, trading cart is 1 big container so it's more practical and can also move making wardrobe obsolete. I seen people talking when discussing horses vs trading carts as it's good for AFK transport, but as we seen in practice it's still not used that often and encouraging AFK playing is nothing to brag about.

[Nomeatloaf]

the trader cart will have the ability to attach horses to it, so the speed isn't an issue, however i agree with you on the whole storage issue. if trader carts, wheelbarrows, and carts would be lootable even while on claim it would help fix it, the other problem is being able to stack them on top of each other.

[Asimov]

I have a much smarter solution...
Reduce the amount you can have in your inventory. Yes terraforming will be much harder, but then you can use a cart to store 1200 stones of soil. Drag the cart with the speed it has now and then take out the soil and dump it somewhere else. Just like in real life!!!!

[Azzerhoden]

I have a much smarter solution...
Reduce the amount you can have in your inventory. Yes terraforming will be much harder, but then you can use a cart to store 1200 stones of soil. Drag the cart with the speed it has now and then take out the soil and dump it somewhere else. Just like in real life!!!!

No. Player inventory levels are fine. Making changes to this would have impact other areas of the game.

Wheelbarrow and trader carts are fine at the current pace. If you want to move faster than only have those who have the appropriate stats move them.

[Dragonis4]

I have a much smarter solution...
Reduce the amount you can have in your inventory. Yes terraforming will be much harder, but then you can use a cart to store 1200 stones of soil. Drag the cart with the speed it has now and then take out the soil and dump it somewhere else. Just like in real life!!!!

this might be very problematic as some crafting recipes require a lot of space in your inventory like gate. Hunters also will complain as they travel by horse and need to store loot, not mentioning right now only trade cart holds soil and that comes late in the game.

Also problem with people not using chests and wardrobes is not solved by that

[Dragonis4]

Wheelbarrow and trader carts are fine at the current pace. If you want to move faster than only have those who have the appropriate stats move them.

Wheelbarrow and trader carts are not fine, people are not using them. Also trader cart is loosing to horse transport by big margin. Moving stuff with your horse is faster and much safer and doesn't require time commitment.

Altho i would be for having more speed for more stats

[Bubba]

Wheelbarrow and trader carts are fine at the current pace. If you want to move faster than only have those who have the appropriate stats move them.

Wheelbarrow and trader carts are not fine, people are not using them. Also trader cart is loosing to horse transport by big margin. Moving stuff with your horse is faster and much safer and doesn't require time commitment.

Altho i would be for having more speed for more stats

correction: you're not using them. i use them for manure, farming, pottery, animal husbandry and other small local uses in the village - as they were designed for.

[Dragonis4]

correction: you're not using them. i use them for manure, farming, pottery, animal husbandry and other small local uses in the village - as they were designed for.

So you are RPing then, because that is not efficient way of doing things.
If you are at the stage of having that much dong or farm, you have horses and that is your fastest transport. you will not use wheelbarrow for only 150 additional space or cart that will slow you dramatically

[Nymity]

I use wardrobes in bedrooms and warehouses.

I use carts and wheelbarrows and trading carts in places where they make the most aesthetic sense.

When I have a long journey to make I will drag a trading cart behind me if I feel like it. I have dragged them from one end of LiF:YO to the other all because I wanted to move.

If you aren't using things the way they 'can' be used, because you don't find it an efficient use of resources or time, that is on you. Forcing change, to make other people use storage the way you want them too, does NOT add to the fun of the game.

I personally like that trading cart that I leave standing around in my fields, but I do not feel the need to drag it back and forth for each crop and I am not putting a wardrobe out there. That would just look silly.

xoxo

[Asimov]

I have a much smarter solution...
Reduce the amount you can have in your inventory. Yes terraforming will be much harder, but then you can use a cart to store 1200 stones of soil. Drag the cart with the speed it has now and then take out the soil and dump it somewhere else. Just like in real life!!!!

this might be very problematic as some crafting recipes require a lot of space in your inventory like gate. Hunters also will complain as they travel by horse and need to store loot, not mentioning right now only trade cart holds soil and that comes late in the game.

Also problem with people not using chests and wardrobes is not solved by that

About the recipes there is another simple solution. You just need higher willpower then the 23 you need now. Lets say 60-70.
Just need to find that line where it makes no sense running around with 100 soil but start using carts, since that is what you want

[Dragonis4]

If you aren't using things the way they 'can' be used, because you don't find it an efficient use of resources or time, that is on you. Forcing change, to make other people use storage the way you want them too, does NOT add to the fun of the game.

It ruins my fun because game is forcing me to not use it and use horse for everything. It's nice tho that you can do things that make no practical sense and not worry about it.

That is terrible way of thinking... if a weapon is totally useless you would not want to have it fixed? with your logic everybody should be fine with it because they can still use it if they find it aesthetically pleasing so there is no problem. Games don't work like that, most people expect form the game to be balanced and items serving their purpose in logical way and as we see people are stacking trader carts because that makes logical sense as far as game mechanics are concerned.

[TyrelionPrime]

I fully agree there is an urgent need for change on this issue.

I would even suggest pushing things a bit further.
I like the suggestion to have the wheelbarrow to be able to store soil and ore and make it a useful item in terraforming. At the moment I have to use trader cart because those are the only ones holding soil and ore, which makes terraforming very tedious as they are sooooo slow....
Another thing that makes terraforming so tedious is the way you have to get the soil back out of the trader cart... transfering part of it into your backpack (who puts soil in their backpack on purpose, seriously :p) and then pour it on the ground. It's a bit silly tbh.

What I was thinking is not having soil go into your backpack yet simply on your shovel (special container you get when equipping a shovel) and then have a special action for the wheelbarrow "fill wheelbarrow" which would drop the soil or ore you have on your shovel into the wheelbarrow and thus filling it up.
When it is full you could then ride the wheelbarrow to a specific location and have a special action "dump soil" which would dump all the soil from the wheelbarrow to the selected square.



The problem here, ofcourse is that if the soil does not go into your backpack... how then can you terraform without a wheelbarrow because only have a shovel store 30 stone of ore/soil will make terraforming a living hell at the start when you can't make them yet.
That could be fixed by only partially implementing this idea, aka having soil going into your main inventory as it is now and only adding the extra functions to the wheelbarrow.
Or you could also solve this by simply adding new items like buckets which can be carried around for transporting soil the same way as with a wheelbarrow yet in smaller quantities. Primitive Buckets could for example be crafted from bark and basic rope (not the linen rope)... more advanced from wooden boards and rope and nails, etc etc. One could also create a carrying rack for buckets (a beam which you carry on your shoulder with a bucket on each end)
And on their turn, since those items will also break down with use, a carpenter would have a lot more useful items to make and gain skill by doing useful stuff instead of having to grind making tons of useless and unwanted items to level his skill.
Those items would ofcourse then have the same options to fill them with soil and then dump all the soil in them on a specific square.


This is just a small idea for making wheelbarrows more useful, especially for terraforming.



On a sidenote, in case the "dump soil" option would proof too difficult to implement, one could add an option to the wheelbarrow to "take out soil/ore" with a slider to determine how much. That way you could set it to take out 90 stone of soil each time as the default action on the cart/wheelbarrow and then dump it in the usual manner.
That would also greatly improve on the current way to get the soil out of the cart which imo is the most annoying part of terraforming…

Ofcourse the wheelbarrow could still be used to transport

[Baal]

I like this way of thinking, the whellbarrow should transport soil and ore, it's the purpose of this tool. I agree it's useless at the moment.

After all it can contain 300 stones of material which is the average quantity of soil a good terraformer want to transport (stack 270-330 stones).
The advantage of the wheelbarrow is that you can carry such weight faster than an overloader character on foot, especially if you have lots of force you will go faster pulling carts.

There is no difference between a new option "fill the wheelbarrow" and the action to open the cart and ctrl+click your stack to transfer it. The only thing that can be added is, if you ctrl+click the soil stack it will automatically fill the wheelbarrow to the max possible in one click (no need MAJ+click to split).

Then the option to "dump soil" out of the wheelbarrow can be available by clicking the tile you are standing on with the wheelbarrow in hands. It will unload the wheelbarrow layer by layer the same way you can do it from your inventory, but maybe with a little unload speed's bonus due to the wheelbarrow use, why not ?
Maybe we should have a popup window opening to choose the stack you want to dump in the case there is differents materials (or quality) in the wheelbarrow (same window when you use repairkit on a building).

The ultimate best things is to add a beautiful realistic animation for the dump soil with wheelbarrow.

[TyrelionPrime]

The difference with the current way and the option I suggested to "fill wheelbarrow" would be that you can put it as default action and that instead of having to open the wheelbarrow and transferring the soil from your backpack to the cart by CTRL-clicking it, you can put it as default action on the wheelbarrow and just click it without having to switch to cursor mode. Simply click ground, turn to wheelbarrow, click wheelbarrow, turn to ground, click ground, click wheelbarrow, etc etc
Now you simply keep clicking ground until your backpack is full, then open the cart, CTRL-click all stacks to the cart and turn back to digging.

Not much of a difference indeed yet this change would be handy in case the other part of my suggestion about not having the dug up soil go into your general backpack yet onto your shovel, would be implemented as well. As in general one would not purposefully put soil in a backpack.

This idea is a small part of a larger idea I had. Instead of having 1 big backpack, a character would have several portable container he/she can equip.

For instance one could equip a travellers backpack to stash normal items in, a pouch to hang on your belt to store herbs, sling ammo, gems, etc (aka small items) in, or equip a bucket carrying rack (http://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/looka ... 107603.jpg) to carry buckets of water/soil/ore/..., etc etc
A bit the same principle we already have with containers and why some items can't go in a barrel, others not in a crate,.. simply because they would not fit.
and it would help organise the things you are carrying around a bit instead of tossing them all into a big backpack and hope you still find that one nail you put in there weeks ago....


Not only would that increase realism without really much of a hassle gameplaywise - you'll just have to make a primitive bucket before you can transport soil - it would also add some new items to the game which you need to craft. Useful things to craft which wil increase your skills instead of having to grind-craft the same freaking crate you don't need just to get a few skillpoints up.
Which is something we really need: useful items to craft to gain skill level instead of repetitious grind-crafting 35M nails to get that forging skill up another 10 points...

[Baal]

When suggesting idea, always keep in mind the existing gameplay mecanics, the engine and what changes your suggestion will need in coding or gameplay modification.

For your shovel part i understand the idea, i think it's cool, but it's not much viable because this need to change the shovel mecanics to act like a container to temporarily store 30 stones of soils or other materials, it's a too big change for the game and can pose others issues for all other normal use of the shovel.

It's simple to quick transfer your inventory to the wheelbarrow with an autofill and it doesn't need difficult code's alteration.

[Henjutsu]

If the cart is within 2-3 tiles of where the character is standing, right-clicking the ground can present the "dump from cart" option.

Adding soil/ore options to wheelbarrows and carts would make sense.

What exactly is the concern with people using them for storage? Is it causing lag, is it hurting anybody in any way?

And rather than approaching this concern by turning all inventory-based activities into an even more arduous chore than it already is, why not something like better furniture containers? There are currently none that can hold soil, and all of them are rather small for higher tier activities. A bigger barrel would be nice.

If in real life I had nowhere to put ore other than my cart, I would just build a very large box. Our characters should at least be this innovative.

[Azzerhoden]

Love the idea of being able to 'dump' the goods in a wheelbarrow. Only concern is the difference between having objects in it that pile on the ground (like dirt), and objects that get dumped into a bag (like gear). System would have to be able to handle both scenarios.

So you are RPing then, because that is not efficient way of doing things.
If you are at the stage of having that much dong or farm, you have horses and that is your fastest transport. you will not use wheelbarrow for only 150 additional space or cart that will slow you dramatically

First - there is nothing wrong with RPing the use of items in the game.

Second - the efficiency you raise is an issue that needs to be fixed. Horses should move much slower when the rider is overburdened.

[Dragonis4]

Im all for it. Horses are destroying every other way of transport atm, It's way to safe and too fast, making them slower based on how much you carry should be a thing.

wheelbarrow carrying soil and rocks should be a thing long time ago, i don't know why it's not a thing yet