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YES, I know, this will shock many of you, but I think skill lines should be flat removed. Don't get me wrong, not the skill themselves, but the fact that you have to level one skill up to go to the other.
On the peaceful tab, every skill should be independant. But, to prevent people from mastering too much, skill cap should be lowered to like 400, even 300. Imposed skill lines are stupid, I think. Why ? Because I don't want to be a chicken farmer to process leather, for example, or I don't want to be a miner to be a blacksmith.. skill lines will create themselves amongst communities, mainly depending on the population in one group of players who do trade : little communities would have to be jack of all trades, so they can provide their own wood to saw into planks, or they would have to provide their own flax to make their own basic cloth.. that's what will happen. Large communities who manage to run a city with a lot of specialised workshop will be rewarded by the fact that they should be amongst the only ones who can manage to make Q > 60 ~ items. Cities would be collections of people mastering their own little profession. That would bring a huge amount of trading, and cooperating. I see two drawbacks about the current system :
1 - People have to know how to more than decently make the basic materials they need for more advanced skill. That will make "lower" profession a lot less valuable, because, basically, you clients know how to do it too.
2 - Dumb lines. Chicken farmer to process leather ? People were making basic clothing out of leather before agriculture itself !
Now, you may think "Yea, but everyone is going to go for the high tier skills"
Well, if they wish, let them. But they will quickly see that it's not a good move. Why ? Because too little people would produce basic goods, the prices would rise, and there ; you make a lot less money for a profession you thought more "advanced".
Having this system would, as I said earlier, bring a lot more trade in the game.
Now, for the combat tab. It is a bit different. Yes, still remove all the skill lines.
I know, skill lines kind of make sense for some skills, like warhorse handling -> mounted combat. But since you will have to get up on a horse to practive mounted combat anyway.. And, again, "virtual" skilllines would still be there : a master mounted fighter with very low horse skill would be.. useless. But ALL the other lines should be removed, for a lot of reasons :
- It makes no sense you have to know how to use a particular kind of weapon to use a type of armor
- It makes no sense you have to know how to use a particular kind of weapon to use another
- It makes no sense you have to know how to use a particular king of weapon / armor for skills like warcry, battle preps..
- Being able to train in all kinds of weapons would facilitate new players arrival in a developed world.
- Being able to train in all kinds of weapons would make early game warfare more about axes and spears, and shields, and make the kind of
"technology" advancing make a lot more sense, and be a thing.
Oh, yea, NO, it would not allow to create "OP" combos. Why ? Because if there are OP combos in a realistic game, it is either a flaw of the game balancing (not the skill system), or it is a very costly equipment with a very hard and long training required. For example : archers in plate armor : they are already possible btw, but plate should give a malus to using bows and crossbows.. or even ranged weapons. helmets could hide some of your view, and gauntlets would make you take a lot more time to load in an arrow and shoot it.
As for armor skill themselves.. personally, I think they should be removed. Why ? Because.. you do know when you put an armor on a stomp, it gives it the same protection as it would give to you, right ? Armor skills should be removed and replaced by a unique skill : armor handling. it wouldn't have to be skilled up to unlock tiers of armors or anything, but having a high skill in it would take less stamina to move with it (a LITTLE less, it would still be more about strengh), but mainly would make you faster to get back on your feet after a fall if you're wearing heavy armor, it would diminish the animations / action speed malus.. that skill would be trained by doing combat, or even everyday action, wearing a more or less heavy armor.
To prevent people from too easily making tier 3 armies, higher than tier 1 armors should take a LONG time to make, and cost more, so when you see someone in tier 3 armor, you know he's not a nobody.
If you have any questions or want more details, don't hesistate to ask !
On the peaceful tab, every skill should be independant. But, to prevent people from mastering too much, skill cap should be lowered to like 400, even 300. Imposed skill lines are stupid, I think. Why ? Because I don't want to be a chicken farmer to process leather, for example, or I don't want to be a miner to be a blacksmith.. skill lines will create themselves amongst communities, mainly depending on the population in one group of players who do trade : little communities would have to be jack of all trades, so they can provide their own wood to saw into planks, or they would have to provide their own flax to make their own basic cloth.. that's what will happen. Large communities who manage to run a city with a lot of specialised workshop will be rewarded by the fact that they should be amongst the only ones who can manage to make Q > 60 ~ items. Cities would be collections of people mastering their own little profession. That would bring a huge amount of trading, and cooperating. I see two drawbacks about the current system :
1 - People have to know how to more than decently make the basic materials they need for more advanced skill. That will make "lower" profession a lot less valuable, because, basically, you clients know how to do it too.
2 - Dumb lines. Chicken farmer to process leather ? People were making basic clothing out of leather before agriculture itself !
Now, you may think "Yea, but everyone is going to go for the high tier skills"
Well, if they wish, let them. But they will quickly see that it's not a good move. Why ? Because too little people would produce basic goods, the prices would rise, and there ; you make a lot less money for a profession you thought more "advanced".
Having this system would, as I said earlier, bring a lot more trade in the game.
Now, for the combat tab. It is a bit different. Yes, still remove all the skill lines.
I know, skill lines kind of make sense for some skills, like warhorse handling -> mounted combat. But since you will have to get up on a horse to practive mounted combat anyway.. And, again, "virtual" skilllines would still be there : a master mounted fighter with very low horse skill would be.. useless. But ALL the other lines should be removed, for a lot of reasons :
- It makes no sense you have to know how to use a particular kind of weapon to use a type of armor
- It makes no sense you have to know how to use a particular kind of weapon to use another
- It makes no sense you have to know how to use a particular king of weapon / armor for skills like warcry, battle preps..
- Being able to train in all kinds of weapons would facilitate new players arrival in a developed world.
- Being able to train in all kinds of weapons would make early game warfare more about axes and spears, and shields, and make the kind of
"technology" advancing make a lot more sense, and be a thing.
Oh, yea, NO, it would not allow to create "OP" combos. Why ? Because if there are OP combos in a realistic game, it is either a flaw of the game balancing (not the skill system), or it is a very costly equipment with a very hard and long training required. For example : archers in plate armor : they are already possible btw, but plate should give a malus to using bows and crossbows.. or even ranged weapons. helmets could hide some of your view, and gauntlets would make you take a lot more time to load in an arrow and shoot it.
As for armor skill themselves.. personally, I think they should be removed. Why ? Because.. you do know when you put an armor on a stomp, it gives it the same protection as it would give to you, right ? Armor skills should be removed and replaced by a unique skill : armor handling. it wouldn't have to be skilled up to unlock tiers of armors or anything, but having a high skill in it would take less stamina to move with it (a LITTLE less, it would still be more about strengh), but mainly would make you faster to get back on your feet after a fall if you're wearing heavy armor, it would diminish the animations / action speed malus.. that skill would be trained by doing combat, or even everyday action, wearing a more or less heavy armor.
To prevent people from too easily making tier 3 armies, higher than tier 1 armors should take a LONG time to make, and cost more, so when you see someone in tier 3 armor, you know he's not a nobody.
If you have any questions or want more details, don't hesistate to ask !
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mattanjakos, omar_rolon_dx, henrylebichon0 and 123 others likes this post.
Comments (93)
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Accepted Answer
0WoW gold is an important resource that allows players to purchase items, vehicles and other in-game services. With gold, it will be easier for you to progress in the game and experience everything it offers. For example cheap wow gold can be difficult to obtain, especially for new players. Buying WoW gold allows you to skip the chore and jump right into the interesting parts of the game. -
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0I 100% agree with this thread, I am seriously planning to buy this game after a week or so when I get back home from vacation and one of my main concerns is current skill tree.
I havent read this thread completely because of my limited time on internet here so I post my point already;
Basic skills and "elite/professional" skills should be divided;
I am currently residing at my family's cabin and I have had my part in building this, sawing planks, slicing them to wanted size, putting stuff together to form structures etc. While spending time here I have fished, prepared those fishes etc. We have small field of potatoes and onions here and I have made a simple knife at school etc. However, this variety of skills I have gathered at my freetime have no effect on me working on my profession and I wont forget any of them while I become better and better at my work.
So, what I am trying to say that it makes no sense that becoming a great blacksmith able to make platebodies wouldnt be able to take care of himself at wild, catch fishes. Everyone should be able to chop down a tree, but professional lumberjack should be much faster at it. I think there should be plenty of basic skillpoints, but when you reach certain point and can be called professional, it would start using elite skillpoints that are limited. Ofcourse this too is somewhat unrealistic, but complete realism would not be fun on game.
Sorry if this has been adressed already and sorry for bad english. -
Accepted Answer
0Fighting in a plate armor is different than fighting in a leather one.
Individual armor skills are still required, with it's own difficulties.
Some professions should be related, what so ever.
Ok, chicken and leather is absurd, but how about horse handling and heavy horse handling? Medicine and Alchemy (this 2 was heavily related in the past)?
Some skill requirements should exist, but not this hard solid tree. And yeah, need to learn crossbow before bow is just stupid. -
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0Absolutely agree!
And one more: without skill tree it can be a multilayer to learning. For example: you want to learn Healing.
If you have no another skills - you will get 1 experience point for action.
If you have 10 Herbalism - you will get 1,01 experience point for action and healing will be 1,01 stronger.
And YES it should be logical! -
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0Logically this is brilliant in terms of game meta this is bloody horrible the point of skill trees is to make sure people work together and in the combat tree would you rather someone who would specialize in a longbow or someone who puts 100 archery 100 plate 100 1 hander 100 shield or 100 2 hander 100 battle cry it would be bloody chaos in a fight -
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1More than a year passed. When is a change like this going to be implemented? I'm getting tired of raising crossbows to use bows (which makes no sense in any way); cleaning dung to be able to tan leather; learning sword to use shields and learning ridiculous amounts of skills to learn how to shout insults.
I love the game, how it looks, how it works, what you can do... but this is beyond bad. You dont need a 1 million dollar budget to change this, and this is not some aesthetic feature of the game.Like anton.dumov likes this post. -
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1Okej i think this is just damb if you would like for it to happend you just should rebuild whole skill system. So it would take longer to become blacksmith.
1. 1st blacksmith is behind all the skills coz you need 2 dig iron on the start so you have it to start using blacksmith skills lol.
2. If you have city/village You have school for shure with will fix your problem with skills coz the blacksmith can teach ppl in school and they will get blacksmith skills only.
So i do not see the reason for it wo be changed. -
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0I don't want to see the skill points lowered but I would like to see most of the chains broken. I think natures lore chain minus healing is a good chain and makes sense, I think the horse riding chain should be war horse handling, lancing, then heavy horse handling minus mounted fighting mastery and chainmail. The only other chain that maybe makes sense is engineering line.
I don't agree with removing armor skills. Cause what the op says is true it provides the same protection, however learning to move in the armor takes practice and adjustment.
I think as the op suggests that a debuff to archery or throwing weapons for that matter in heavy armor would keep the archers (especially the serious and dangerous ones) away from heavy armor. -
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0bump
it would also improve Roleplaying as much more individual careers would be possible... but still with a skillcap, so superheroes are avoided...Like Dexploratio likes this post. -
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-1Well, I would like to, as it isn't my exact vision on things now, but alas, you cannot edit posts in the suggestions part of the website. I guess it's made to prevent abuses.
But I would argue that, yea, you would get more comfortable. But the skill shouldn't completly OFFSET the armor's amount of quality points over your skill, it shouldn't reduce the weight by a factor of three and it shouldn't prevent you from wearing heavier armor while you're not the most used to this kind of armor.
The skill has to be trained in a different manner, or affect different things. -
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0I agree that most skill lines are flawed and should be either removed or adjusted severely.
Though on your bottom part you are speaking nonsense. I do think we should have different armor skills because if you wear leather armor you get more comfortable in you guess what 'Leather Armor'. So having just 1 armor skill would make people wear the lightest armor all the time so they progress their skill in order to wear heavy plate armor efficiently in the future.
And you could counter my argument by saying that heavier armor should increase the skill faster, Yet I would disagree again because then you would have to wear plate armor as an archer before you see any real skill progress.
Please remove it from this discussion as it is completely irrelevant to the skill lines discussion. -
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