Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Mndfreeze]

As our guilds alchemist I need to rant a bit about this skill line. It really needs a complete makeover.

Herbalism and alchemy should not be seperated like they are. Herbalism should be mixed into either alchemy or healing or natures lore. OR it needs to have seperate useful effects.

Currently, all but a few potions AND preps are completely useless. All the stat buffing ones.

Transmuting to gold in alchemy is also pretty much a useless skill since gold is not exactly hard to find in quantity, but since thats a level 100 skill thats not super important.

There is basically no point to herbalism even existing since it does the same things alchemy does and alchemy does them better. Natures lore determins the herb picking numbers, not herbalism.

The ONLY thing you really would want herbalism for is for NON alchemists to make flux, naptha and food flavor at low levels, but since thats about 50% of the entire purpose of an alchemist, whats the point.

IMO, herbalism as a seperate skill needs to go away or have its skill effects change to be unique. Roll it into the healing tree and give healing more abilities to do things based off those herbs or something, at least then there would be a purpose for it.

DEFINITELY PLEASE either make the useless herb effects work above your maximum skill cap, or have a better more useful effect. 61 different herbs and most being useless really sucks.

And yes, I know you can trade them to other alchemists to have them make flux from, etc. This is purely about the skill tree being a waste.


The digging/mining tree also needs some touch up.

[Muh]

I agree, something has to change there, though giving more interesting prep and potion effects would already go a long way.

Why can't preps be used to make potions and alchemist have to figure out their combination of preps+herbs+whatever to create special potions?
For instance:
Underwaterbreathing
Reduced Falldamage
Eagly Eye (allows you to zoom in as archer)
Night Vision (if disabling the fog via console gets removed, a potion could give an equal effect)
Carry Weight potion
Experience Multiplier Potion
...
just to name a few.

Why are stat boosting preps/potions even a thing? So far they do pretty much nothing.

Why do we have catalyst for flux, naphta and food flavor when the magnitude they boost changes nothing?

Why does Flux has nearly no effect on the end quality of most created items?

Though it is not only alchemy, I feel that brewing is pretty useless too. There is no real point of beer and mead right now. Cider is enough for alchemy and wine for cooks... and even then the booze is not in high demand.

[Mndfreeze]

It definitely goes far beyond just alchemy of course, I only brought it up since thats my main profession so I know its intricacies better than most.

I do hope they have plans for most of the skill tree in general, as there are definitely a LOT of dead spots throughout it or skill levels that really are just useless, even in an RP setting.

I imagine they have plans, but it would be nice to hear about them in a dev blog or something. I really like the idea of preps being used as the material/resource for the alchemy potions and it would make a lot more sense. At least then, even with that small change herbalism would now have a purpose to alchemy.

I definitely would love to see the useless mixes to go away and be replaced with something better. I know for the sake of pvp balance they have to be careful, but there are a lot of possible options for useful things that could be done.

Healing should be linked to the skills somehow IMO. Just healing someone with a hammer and a saw but NOT the herbs/preps seems, strange. It feels like they maybe planned for it to be related, or wanted a healing skill but didn't know where to put it so they just kinda threw it in there. It makes the most sense in that line of course, it just needs to directly tie into it.

Transmute to gold would actually be somewhat worthwhile if it was a for sure once a day thing, did a larger amount and maybe upped quality or something. It also fits with the historical lore so I like the idea, just not the implementation.

[Muh]

Well, all lvl 100 skills are just something tiny decorative, they never were meant to be awfully useful.

Anyhow, if preps could be used for alchemy too, as additional ingredient, it suddenly would make sense to have more than one herbalist.
Some herbs are just easier accessable with the gardens than others, so people who can make some preps easier than others could do them.

Right now you pretty much just need one, 2 herbalist top, if you have herbal gardens. There is really no need to have a bunch of them.

I understand why they may have scratched the idea to use preps for healing. They simply did not want people to heal up behind walls, but let their hhp be reduced till the bedrest ran through. Shortening the bed rest might break the game balance.

[Risky]

Alchemy will be the first step into chemistry and scientific breakthroughs. Like how each herb is unique to each herbalist, each cure for diseases and viruses and each chemical to improve animal breeding will be unique to each alchemist. Studies on animal fur will enhance the ingredients used to tan leather. Studies on animals living in different climates will allow you to breed hybrid animals for war, labor and better breeding.

Food preservation will also be an advancement that only the guilds who invest resources into the Alchemist Lab will achieve.

Alchemy has many opportunities to expand, and will require a lot of time, investment and resources to study its advancements.

[Mndfreeze]

Well, what I meant for using herbalist stuff with healing was like finished preps being used BY the healer when healing someone else, not as potions/preps to be taken by each user. Sort of the equivilant of wrapping a gash with some herb before bandaging to help stop the spread of infection. I agree that, at least currently, we don't need potions that heal hard HP. There are already soft HP potions though which literally negate blunt damage completely.

They would just need to make the healing multipliers adjust for how much you can heal without X Y or Z prep in the healers inventory vs without.

Another option would be for healers or alchemists to give buffs with specific preps in their inventory. Alchemist can say, make a salve that gives +accuracy or even plus STAT ABOVE MAXIMUM, but the healer has to apply to to everyone. I also don't want in-combat healing to really be much of a thing, as there needs to be severe punishment for getting whacked in battle.

IMO, the herbalist skill should just go away and be merged into healing or alchemy, and alchemy should rely on healing skill more, with more of it intertwined.

Herb gardens are also kinda bugged. I've found the right fertilizer for some of my herbs, our gardens are about 19k durability, and I can never get more then qual 82ish even if I use 100 qual herb with 100 qual fert and 100qual water. Not that it matters a TON since I have an herbalist shop and alchemist outfit to boost it, but it still would help.

Well, all lvl 100 skills are just something tiny decorative, they never were meant to be awfully useful.

Anyhow, if preps could be used for alchemy too, as additional ingredient, it suddenly would make sense to have more than one herbalist.
Some herbs are just easier accessable with the gardens than others, so people who can make some preps easier than others could do them.

Right now you pretty much just need one, 2 herbalist top, if you have herbal gardens. There is really no need to have a bunch of them.

I understand why they may have scratched the idea to use preps for healing. They simply did not want people to heal up behind walls, but let their hhp be reduced till the bedrest ran through. Shortening the bed rest might break the game balance.

[Mndfreeze]

Alchemy will be the first step into chemistry and scientific breakthroughs. Like how each herb is unique to each herbalist, each cure for diseases and viruses and each chemical to improve animal breeding will be unique to each alchemist. Studies on animal fur will enhance the ingredients used to tan leather. Studies on animals living in different climates will allow you to breed hybrid animals for war, labor and better breeding.

Food preservation will also be an advancement that only the guilds who invest resources into the Alchemist Lab will achieve.

Alchemy has many opportunities to expand, and will require a lot of time, investment and resources to study its advancements.

Are you making suggestions or are you saying you have read the dev's making these statements somewhere? I've never heard of any of this.

Currently food doesn't spoil at all, and I'm not sure I'd want it to with how complex it can be to make. Our cook has the MOST storage out of everyone in our entire guild. Between her and our blacksmith they have more storage requirements than the entire rest of the guild combined lolol. Making high quality food spoil will suck unless there is a fairly easy method to prevent it.

[Muh]

...

Herb gardens are also kinda bugged. I've found the right fertilizer for some of my herbs, our gardens are about 19k durability, and I can never get more then qual 82ish even if I use 100 qual herb with 100 qual fert and 100qual water. Not that it matters a TON since I have an herbalist shop and alchemist outfit to boost it, but it still would help.

...

Guess your effektive herbalism skill is 82?

Anyhow, sadly devs are rather slow with changes, so useful alchemy/herbalism will take quite a while still.

[Mndfreeze]

My herbalism skill is 88. But I was under the impression Natures lore determines max herb quality. It does when you harvest them in the wild. For herb gardens its supposed to be the quality of the garden that determines max quality of the herbs picked. The formula for finding out what percentage quality your building is at is DURABILITY - 5000 / 150. A 19k garden is 93.3% quality so I should be able to get up to 93 quality herbs from the gardens.

My natures lore is 100, my alchemy is 92.

I've found other people complaining that herb gardens have been buggy for a while now where they can't seem to get higher quality herbs either.

[RyanSide]

Quick question and very off topic. But what level am I able to use organic catalysts?

[Mndfreeze]

Quick question and very off topic. But what level am I able to use organic catalysts?

90 alchemy. It sucks because mineral ingredients are far more rare and hard to obtain but organic ones are common biproducts from various animal related things in the hunter tree like slaughtering rabbits and chickens.

[Muh]

My herbalism skill is 88. But I was under the impression Natures lore determines max herb quality. It does when you harvest them in the wild. For herb gardens its supposed to be the quality of the garden that determines max quality of the herbs picked. The formula for finding out what percentage quality your building is at is DURABILITY - 5000 / 150. A 19k garden is 93.3% quality so I should be able to get up to 93 quality herbs from the gardens.

My natures lore is 100, my alchemy is 92.

I've found other people complaining that herb gardens have been buggy for a while now where they can't seem to get higher quality herbs either.

Gathering herbs from a garden is a herbalism skill, so your herbalism skill determines the max quality you get get from the garden (together with the garden quality and the whole other stuff). You also see that since getting herbs from a garden gives you herbalism skill.

[Uxtalzon]

But I was under the impression Natures lore determines max herb quality. It does when you harvest them in the wild.

You're right. Nature's Lore determines what max quality herbs you can gather. High soil quality helps finding higher quality herbs more often.

The gathering update changed the appearance of them so you can tell if an herb is high quality or not by how bushy and flowery it looks.

[RyanSide]

Quick question and very off topic. But what level am I able to use organic catalysts?

90 alchemy. It sucks because mineral ingredients are far more rare and hard to obtain but organic ones are common biproducts from various animal related things in the hunter tree like slaughtering rabbits and chickens.

Thank you so much for answering I have been trying to use organic catalysts but I only have 44 alchemy. Any tips on leveling it quickly?

[MrMaxim3]

Quick question and very off topic. But what level am I able to use organic catalysts?

90 alchemy. It sucks because mineral ingredients are far more rare and hard to obtain but organic ones are common biproducts from various animal related things in the hunter tree like slaughtering rabbits and chickens.

Thank you so much for answering I have been trying to use organic catalysts but I only have 44 alchemy. Any tips on leveling it quickly?

Yes, if u have 60 skill in Alchemy you can make flax, flavour and naptha in herbalist shop. You dont need alcohol for gain alchemy level.

[Cosimo]

Alchemy would need an overhaul indeed, I have both Herbalism/Alchemy 100 and have been there 3 week after launch. To address some of the issues:

1- Alchemy 100: It is completly useless, with a total luck of 20 I have tried for a month to convert 140 iron nuggets into gold nuggets, failed every single time, the attempt consumes the nugget. I basically stopped, would prefer +5 luck to make more potency objects.

2- Herbalism 100: This is still required if you want to make high quality antidotes and refreshing, the proc of +5 luck is handy to get potency 2 or 1.5 items.

3- Garden planting: a time synch. Currently proud owner of 69 herb gadens, which means gather 690 water per day, split in stacks of 6 of bones, fish and dung. the whole procedure with a very useful mod takes me roughly 1h per day to produce 340 units of Flux, Naphta, Antidotes (260), Refreshment (260).

4- Mixing: Why can't we autocraft here? I have to rely on Easy Autoclicker as clicking 340 times ever 2.5 seconds means nearly 15 minutes of my life is dedicated soley in "clicking".

5- Prefered fertilizer: Wouldn't it be more convenient if in the toolkit of the herb you could write "once discovered" the favorite fertilizer of a plant? Currently mantaining an excel spreadsheet with numbers and name of the herb and having to cross reference it everytime.

6-Herbal Garden space: Why make it 100? why can't it be like buildings where you can just "click" and slot in what you require (at least 1 plant and 10 water, the fertilizer I can accept you have to individually split it)

7-Water collection: That you can collect 1 bag of water per interaction... this is getting to be quite annoying. To "fish out" 690 water it takes 23 minutes, granted I can be watching a TV series whylst doing it, but wouldn't it be nicer just to have a well have a "finite" amount of water and be it like a "dwarehouse" where you can "get" that water and it replentish itself daily? Would make people use more wells rather than throwing some dirt in a ditch.

8-Potion making: Currently there is no difference if you use cider, beer or wine for making potions, moreover it makes no sense to craft antidotes and refreshment potions as 2 preps Q100 potency 2 are better and cheaper than 1 potion Q100 potency 4.5 (last longer + much cheaper)

9- Bulk production: As per procuration you can bulk produce linen hanks, mortar, glass etc etc. Would it not make sense to have the same for making Flux, Naphta etc etc?

10- Herbalist shop: Everyday before destroying my Herbalist shop I need to leave the door open. Why? Because due to the intense use of it, it bursts into flame and if it is in flame you cannot open the door. Wouldn't it be nice if a building is in flame the door is always open? Or allow people to open the door instead of having to recall out in case they closed the door.