Life is Feudal Official Forum

[MrOurs]

Feudalism without robbers, without criminals Actually people care about danger, because they are over-protected. (clain, personal clain, alignement penality, disconnect during JH)


People don't need to be protected by a big human team, because no danger.



feudalism ? : http://wikirouge.net/wiki/images/thumb/ ... alisme.png


broke. Please rename the game: Farming simulator: feudal édition.

[WestArcher]

There's tons of PvP to be had if you look for it. Large guilds come for PvP, why are people so scared to PvP big groups? Just want to prey on the weak because they are weak themselves.

Maybe because people wanted better pvp than just playing mount and blade servers all day. They want it to mean something.

and some of us just want the thrill of a gank/surviving a gank as well.
But currently there's not really any reason to leave the comfort of home as you can pretty much do everything there.

[ObedSG]

As town claim walls, they cannot even be destroyed during Judgment Hour.

I expect that will change in the future, like many other things. I can't imagine that it is intended.

[Peegee77]

But currently there's not really any reason to leave the comfort of home as you can pretty much do everything there.

Fortunately a lot of people believe this. If the two guilds who have declared war on me actually had any imagination they would catch me when I was hunting, fishing, prospecting, mining, collecting rock and clay, and all the other things I have to do outside my claim. That would cause me some serious inconvenience.

Luckily, they only log on for JHs and think that PVP means cheesing over a wall looking for AFK botters, which in my case they fail to find.

[ObedSG]

But currently there's not really any reason to leave the comfort of home as you can pretty much do everything there.

Fortunately a lot of people believe this. If the two guilds who have declared war on me actually had any imagination they would catch me when I was hunting, fishing, prospecting, mining, collecting rock and clay, and all the other things I have to do outside my claim. That would cause me some serious inconvenience.

Luckily, they only log on for JHs and think that PVP means cheesing over a wall looking for AFK botters, which in my case they fail to find.

They could also form posses and hunt criminals, probably even get bounties for heads if they asked around for names. The game is brand new & still under development, I'm not too concerned about lacking content yet.

[Hodo]

Fortunately a lot of people believe this. If the two guilds who have declared war on me actually had any imagination they would catch me when I was hunting, fishing, prospecting, mining, collecting rock and clay, and all the other things I have to do outside my claim. That would cause me some serious inconvenience.

Luckily, they only log on for JHs and think that PVP means cheesing over a wall looking for AFK botters, which in my case they fail to find.

LOL I dont know where you live in game but I can tell you that aint how it works where I am at.

People have setup their claims so close to their resources that they dont even have to leave their walls. Others have built private claims with palisade walls around a 3x3 claim. I mean REALLY a tiny little box so they can gather herbs, or fish or whatever AFK for hours. That is just RETARDED!

Then when we do go out looking for enemies outside of their walls.. they just jump in the lake and disconnect or run to their walls which are at most 30sec away from their claim with the flee command.

Yeah it is that bad. We might kill 1 in 5 outside of their walls... then if we even go near them they just shoot crossbows at us till we get bored of being popup targets and leave. Or they just logout and wait. Yeah fun for everyone involved.

Then there is JH, that joke that is the placeholder for sieges... ok, we can destroy things on the realm claim. Great... but most guilds just put everything on the city claim now so it isnt an issue. Or they put tons of crap, like drying racks out on the realm claim and other useless crap to lag up the place.

BOBIK fix this... SOON!

[Manron]

What if this game wasn't made for dedicated PvPers only?

I'm enjoying the almost endless possibilities LiF offers whithout me having to go out and gank someone who cant defend.

This is not Mount & Blade or Chivalry or some e-sport shooter, and it doesnt want to be! Roleplaying an outlaw or robber baron is not the only way you can play this game.

Sure, if you can only have fun by mowing down AFKers in their base, then there is probably not much for you to do, granted. But maybe then this game isn't the right place for you either?

A few people in here raise the concern the game will die soon because of people are too save in their castles. I mean seriously?
It is vital to the game that players who have limited interest in pvp have a save spot to run to or stay at, and have their belongings and buildings secure. Else they will quit and only 'dedicated' PvPers remain. Who will you gank then?

Why would i stay in the open and let myself get killed and robbed? Just for you to have fun? Well...it's not going to work that way, and i sincerely hope at least some of you understand why. But i doubt it.

I'm a player, too, a human that plays this game in his leasure time to enjoy himself. I'm not a token for someone elses pleasure, i'm not your game content.

Go do your IBs, go trash some stuff in JHs, hell, even roam the lands and try to catch some unaware peasants or try to intercept trade routes. All fine and dandy.

Still, you need to realize, you need us sheeps, and we sheeps need to prosper and a have save heaven to retreat to, so we can craft more stuff and build more things for you to try and take from us.

Why are you pretending you want to have high level pvp vs people who can actually defend themselfes when all i get from this topic is some people (you keep calling them the majority, i doubt it's even a third or quater of the playerbase) are pissed because walls and town claims actually do offer some protection. Get real.

[Hodo]

What if this game wasn't made for dedicated PvPers only?

I'm enjoying the almost endless possibilities LiF offers whithout me having to go out and gank someone who cant defend.

This is not Mount & Blade or Chivalry or some e-sport shooter, and it doesnt want to be! Roleplaying an outlaw or robber baron is not the only way you can play this game.

Sure, if you can only have fun by mowing down AFKers in their base, then there is probably not much for you to do, granted. But maybe then this game isn't the right place for you either?

A few people in here raise the concern the game will die soon because of people are too save in their castles. I mean seriously?
It is vital to the game that players who have limited interest in pvp have a save spot to run to or stay at, and have their belongings and buildings secure. Else they will quit and only 'dedicated' PvPers remain. Who will you gank then?

Why would i stay in the open and let myself get killed and robbed? Just for you to have fun? Well...it's not going to work that way, and i sincerely hope at least some of you understand why. But i doubt it.

I'm a player, too, a human that plays this game in his leasure time to enjoy himself. I'm not a token for someone elses pleasure, i'm not your game content.

Go do your IBs, go trash some stuff in JHs, hell, even roam the lands and try to catch some unaware peasants or try to intercept trade routes. All fine and dandy.

Still, you need to realize, you need us sheeps, and we sheeps need to prosper and a have save heaven to retreat to, so we can craft more stuff and build more things for you to try and take from us.

Why are you pretending you want to have high level pvp vs people who can actually defend themselfes when all i get from this topic is some people (you keep calling them the majority, i doubt it's even a third or quater of the playerbase) are pissed because walls and town claims actually do offer some protection. Get real.

First it is SAFE not SAVE.

Next sheep doesnt need an "S" to be plural, it is like Moose...

Lastly...

Most of the hardcore PVPers would enjoy IB or JH, IF they actually worked. But they dont... so they have nothing to do. And if people actually played as peons then it wouldnt be an issue, but everyone wants castle walls around their 3x3 tile claim.

[Agathius]

I would not be so sure of that. The PvP Kingdoms are the ones producing the most during Crafting. But let that apart.

We're not speaking about ganking on someone who cannot defend. That, if the game is feudal indeed, does not even need discussion and should be allowed, as it technically already is allowed. That is not our problem

Our problem is that we cannot have an enjoyable war with our enemies and the thrill of raiding people that indeed, can fight back and not "Sheep" like you. A PvPer, if we can use that word and does not offend you, does not want fights from a "sheep" just like an athlete does not want to compete against a guy eating chips all day in his couch. We do not care about ganking you and we do not discuss it.

What we discuss is PvP and why things that protect carebears dissallow pvpers from having fun with other pvpers. I have got real and this is a forum post where everyone got real, where people stated their opinions as with democracy and freedom we have on the forums.

Apart from that, your attidude of a guy being disgusted in anything that does not involve farming is what drove me and the rest of the pvpers to making this post in order to show our feelings towards this and towards the game. Apart from that, i believe your attidude is something i do not have to answer to, and it is one that does you no favor.

No one mentioned the game is made for pvpers. At the moment, PvE has taken over the game. We never wanted to trample you or any 'sheep', what we want is to have equal say as the sheep, as we formed the game, helped form it before any sheep appeared. I believe we deserve that no matter from what side of the fence

[VindicteMortis]

What if this game wasn't made for dedicated PvPers only?

I'm enjoying the almost endless possibilities LiF offers whithout me having to go out and gank someone who cant defend.

This is not Mount & Blade or Chivalry or some e-sport shooter, and it doesnt want to be! Roleplaying an outlaw or robber baron is not the only way you can play this game.

Sure, if you can only have fun by mowing down AFKers in their base, then there is probably not much for you to do, granted. But maybe then this game isn't the right place for you either?

A few people in here raise the concern the game will die soon because of people are too save in their castles. I mean seriously?
It is vital to the game that players who have limited interest in pvp have a save spot to run to or stay at, and have their belongings and buildings secure. Else they will quit and only 'dedicated' PvPers remain. Who will you gank then?

Why would i stay in the open and let myself get killed and robbed? Just for you to have fun? Well...it's not going to work that way, and i sincerely hope at least some of you understand why. But i doubt it.

I'm a player, too, a human that plays this game in his leasure time to enjoy himself. I'm not a token for someone elses pleasure, i'm not your game content.

Go do your IBs, go trash some stuff in JHs, hell, even roam the lands and try to catch some unaware peasants or try to intercept trade routes. All fine and dandy.

Still, you need to realize, you need us sheeps, and we sheeps need to prosper and a have save heaven to retreat to, so we can craft more stuff and build more things for you to try and take from us.

Why are you pretending you want to have high level pvp vs people who can actually defend themselfes when all i get from this topic is some people (you keep calling them the majority, i doubt it's even a third or quater of the playerbase) are pissed because walls and town claims actually do offer some protection. Get real.

You are part of the problem which is killing this game.

Traditional rivals no longer enjoy playing against each other. No one cares about your shit tier nobody guild or what afker you worry about being ganged. Understand that first then you will start to see the real problem plaguing this game now.

[Tordr86]

Current state of the game ? Bored asshats running around on their mounts killing defenseless people that are busy skilling up on their 9 tile private claims, pathetic.

[SpookyMemer]

Current state of the game ? Bored asshats running around on their mounts killing defenseless people that are busy skilling up on their 9 tile private claims, pathetic.

More like people want to have guild vs guild conflict and actually contest resources and strategic locations. Nobody cares about your 9 tile claim unless you put your claim on a bridge.

[Peegee77]

Remember that "feudal society" doesn't mean "lawless society." There was a monarch and there were laws, even if they were somewhat unevenly applied. Historically there were few societies where you could kill who you liked, when you liked, with no consequences.

Remember also in the MMO world that there has been a small but vocal group of gankers and rpk'ers who descend on each new game like vultures and demand the game be turned into a murder simulator. Developers who pander too much to their demands have learned to their cost that these people have no loyalty to the game, no long term interest in its success, and are quite happy to see the game sink without trace once the novelty wears off. MMO history is littered with the wrecks of games where the devs have given in to them, and the LiF devs are quite rightly wary of going the same way.

Have they gone too far the other way, to the detriment of genuine PVPers? Yes, I think they probably have. But the game is in development, and its understandable that they err on the side of safety at the start. There is plenty of time to adjust things once the major bugs are flattened.

How do we go about adjusting the balance? I certainly don't have a magic wand and I mistrust anyone else who claims they have one. CCP may have come close but even they aren't perfect, and they've had 14 years practice.

These are just a couple of suggestions that could help to make LiF a world that is a little less safe, a little more brutal, a little more adrenaline pumping.

1/ Make town claim tiles non-productive.

On the town claim, you CAN:
- cut down existing trees
- dig and terraform
- create and use buildings (eg. furnaces)
- create and use objects (eg. tanning tubs)
You CANNOT:
- gather
- tunnel
- mine
- plant trees or crops

Maybe you could build a vegetable garden (in the same way as a herb garden) to represent a small plot inside the town walls, but generally all the raw production resources would be restricted to the realm claim, outside the walls. If you can't defend your crops and mines and plantations and want to retreat inside your walls, you accept the siege conditions and limited consumables that result from it.

2/ Crown Protection

You can either have a standard guild claim, or have crown protection

- A standard claim is more vulnerable (to whatever extent people think would be good) to open it up to PVP
- If you have a standard guild claim, the cost that you pay for a battle totem is cut by half

- A claim with Crown Protection has the same level of protection as it does now, and battle totems cost the same as they do now.
- The maintenance cost per tile is doubled compared to a standard claim

So, you have a choice. You can keep your safety but at a considerable cost disadvantage compared to other, more aggressive guilds. Or you can make yourself and others more vulnerable.

3/ Space reserved for much better ideas from other people

[Monco]

I think that small scale raiding or "roaming" out of JH was very popular and that by disabling boosting inside bases you didn't do a good move for the game in general. I'm pretty sure a lot of people was doing it, i myself was doing it with some friends but now the only thing we can do is just camp or go for mines...

[Monco]

Subscription is absolutely optional. You don't need it at all to fully enjoy the game. It's not a P2P model. You get access to all game features with one ticket to Abella.

Also, LiF and WoW are two completely different games. LiF is a PvP, open world sandbox, where players shape the entire game world, while WoW is a themepark, where players are an addition to the already shaped game world, which they cannot really affect in any way. Those two games are aimed at different audiences, so you can't make any fair comparison here. It's a matter of taste.

By looking at this reply in another post, I really don't see why they removed "barbox" raiding and boosting aswell, I mean he said this is a PvP open world sandbox. How can you have open world PvP when the only battles you get are now instanced. It really makes no sense to disable "raiding" out of jh when the JH itself is so laggy that the game is barely playable and therefore it's called the lag hour by most people. When boosting was still allowed i felt like the world was more dynamic, there was way more people roaming around. Now the only thing you can do is either camp enemy bases waiting for someone to get out even if they have a stupid palisade or drying rack wall, go to kill poor miners in mining spots, or kill those who don't have a wall yet to get some random PvP. Boosting inside a base was not easy just one archer if the base is well terraformed could hold it from 15 people, but yea if people build their bases randomly without any plan, next to cliffs or without terraforming at all that sometimes you see the soil out of the walls almost as much high as them then I think that they should deserve to be punished. They will learn to terraform their base in a better way by looking at how people can get in and if they can only get in in JH then it will be too late for them. If this game was supposed to have open world pvp I think that they should bring back at least normal boosting, it's so stupid that a simple drying rack wall can stop everyone. But still devs will just ignore this big post with 4 pages of replies so yep, very nice very professional.

[Arrakis]

I think this is a good time to remind you about an important comment from Bobik regarding whole PvP and wolves vs sheeps thing.

• http://lifeisfeudal.com/forum/topic24131/#p105026

Other than that, I would love to get into details about "why this" and "why that" and explain further the reasons behind those decisions that were made and that you are all so concerned about. I won't do that though now because Bobik will do that in an upcoming AMA that is going to happen next week. So if I may ask for your patience, we will clear this matter and give you answers very soon.

We will provide details about this upcoming AMA as soon as possible.

[Agathius]

What you spoke on, Arrakis, or what Bobik stated, the lead developer, was metriopathy on the sheep. He never mentioned PvPers V PvPers would get hindered in the progress. If you really got into this trouble of making Epleland, why do you not restrict these raiding restrictions to Epleland?

We- or i at least, do not care about the sheep. What i care is the worthy enemy that i cannot raid or face because there is the same rules protecting him as the sheep. You cannot call Ashfell or USH sheep for example, people like that like raiding, being raided. Adds a sense of being and thrill to the game.

Apart from that of the 'sheep', in all respect, i do not see anything else that would be misunderstood and would require further say; If the ppl below wouldn't, i will not try either, but they did and they stated an honest opinion and reasons why the game is going the way it's going. So did i in my first post, and in all honesty i bet you would fall asleep over me typing what i have already typed

[Macpharlan]

I have to agree with the general census here, my guild likes to fight and also work/build, we use to have the surprise visit by the enemies that would hop our walls and create chaos and rally all online to defend, now that is gone and along with it the excitement. Now we AFK inside the walls, JH is horrible with the current lag (server 38 lags enough outside JH and makes the game unplayable during).

I'd like to see legit scaling mechanisms, ladders/towers, something that takes a bit of setup and can be pushed over (ladders). Something that would interrupt the days normal boring life but with difficult enough to setup that its not an instant thing, something that would get noticed by those in the area and could call to arms to defend.

Right now you can only go attack workers outside the walls or go stand outside hoping the enemy will come out. We have some of our enemies hide outside the gate waiting for someone to come out and they run in trying to kill AFKers before they die.

So yes, this game needs to allow for anytime combat

[Monco]

I have to agree with the general census here, my guild likes to fight and also work/build, we use to have the surprise visit by the enemies that would hop our walls and create chaos and rally all online to defend, now that is gone and along with it the excitement. Now we AFK inside the walls, JH is horrible with the current lag (server 38 lags enough outside JH and makes the game unplayable during).

I'd like to see legit scaling mechanisms, ladders/towers, something that takes a bit of setup and can be pushed over (ladders). Something that would interrupt the days normal boring life but with difficult enough to setup that its not an instant thing, something that would get noticed by those in the area and could call to arms to defend.

Right now you can only go attack workers outside the walls or go stand outside hoping the enemy will come out. We have some of our enemies hide outside the gate waiting for someone to come out and they run in trying to kill AFKers before they die.

So yes, this game needs to allow for anytime combat

I agree with you, they don't get the fact that many people actually enjoyed being online raided in non jh time so that they could get a fight and push the attackers back. I remember back then when we noticed people approaching we used to call as many people as possible to get ready to defend but now we just shoot them from the walls because they don't have a way to get in. But still at least they replied to the post which is something, i thought they would have ignored it.

[Tordr86]

Current state of the game ? Bored asshats running around on their mounts killing defenseless people that are busy skilling up on their 9 tile private claims, pathetic.

More like people want to have guild vs guild conflict and actually contest resources and strategic locations. Nobody cares about your 9 tile claim unless you put your claim on a bridge.

My claim is out of their way, hence my comment. Since I haven't had any issues with my neighbors, I believe the guy who randomly killed me was from a neighboring island.



If it wasn't for this damn winter, gate module "gated" behind level 90 and certain important things requiring linen rope, I might have been able to avoid these bored individuals, but I digress...

[Tashka]

This thread alsmost made me proud of Epleland - for our castles may be useless but at least they aren't made of sticks lol.

[IamHe]

possible suggestion that may help pvpers while leaving pvers largely unaffected:

1- make level 4 guild claims (Glorious Monument) treated like realm claim on all its territory during JH (making everything destructable during JH)

2- make level 4 guild claims (Glorious Monument) realm claim be vulnerable to attack at any time and not just during JH

advantages of my suggestion:

guilds that do not want to PVP can simply stop at level 3 guild claim (Great monument)

getting level 4 guild claim means the guild is active and large making offline raiding dangerous

provides pvp opportunities at any time of any day among groups that want them with clear indication where other similar groups are located

[Ericcb]

What you spoke on, Arrakis, or what Bobik stated, the lead developer, was metriopathy on the sheep. He never mentioned PvPers V PvPers would get hindered in the progress. If you really got into this trouble of making Epleland, why do you not restrict these raiding restrictions to Epleland?

Best comment so far, Wurm had such system, PVP and PVE servers, and it worked fine.

In PVP servers I would have a free loot, all time siege-able claims, but fix the bullshit mechanics (wall jumping, barkboxing and boosting, unstuck). If you want to raid a castle, it should be mandatory to Siege it. The only disadvantage I see is offline raiding small guilds...

[Tashka]

What you spoke on, Arrakis, or what Bobik stated, the lead developer, was metriopathy on the sheep. He never mentioned PvPers V PvPers would get hindered in the progress. If you really got into this trouble of making Epleland, why do you not restrict these raiding restrictions to Epleland?

Except that Epleland is not a PVE server. Or at least it's not meant to be.

[SpookyMemer]

Its not very good. There are too many bugs/issues that occur by forcing everyone to be logged on for a huge pvp event.

[Ericcb]

What you spoke on, Arrakis, or what Bobik stated, the lead developer, was metriopathy on the sheep. He never mentioned PvPers V PvPers would get hindered in the progress. If you really got into this trouble of making Epleland, why do you not restrict these raiding restrictions to Epleland?

Except that Epleland is not a PVE server. Or at least it's not meant to be.

Well, lets talk about a "safer environment" for those who dislike a full, open PVP ruleset

[Knar]

I think this is a good time to remind you about an important comment from Bobik regarding whole PvP and wolves vs sheeps thing.

• http://lifeisfeudal.com/forum/topic24131/#p105026

Other than that, I would love to get into details about "why this" and "why that" and explain further the reasons behind those decisions that were made and that you are all so concerned about. I won't do that though now because Bobik will do that in an upcoming AMA that is going to happen next week. So if I may ask for your patience, we will clear this matter and give you answers very soon.

We will provide details about this upcoming AMA as soon as possible.

The funny part about Bobik's assessment of Darkfall is that he is 100% wrong about why the game died. People were lining up out the door for Darkfall, but the company was so inept and didn't fix core issues with their game.

If he had posted that a year or two ago, most of us wouldn't be here today.

[WestArcher]

The biggest problem in my opinion isn't so much the inability to raid guild towns or claims.
Those should be safe outside of JH.
The biggest problem is there is no reason to leave those towns, you can do all your gathering/crafting and everything else in safety so there are never any targets for gankers to go after.
And the same goes for solo players, there's nothing for them to do either

The best thing they can do to fix the dead state of the world is provide incentives and mechanics to get out of your castles!
Trade needs to be more accessible for all players.
Gathering should only be viable outside your town
There should be a reason to explore

Spoiler

Natives soon™

In general OUTSIDE needs lots of stuff to do

There needs to be FUN things to do outside of your towns, especially for PVE players. PVE players need to be having fun and doing useful things outside!
Such a thing will have the benefit of fueling PVP outside of JH as a consequence. More people outside = More people fighting outside

We don't necessarily need town raiding (especially since getting offlined really sucks), but more of a thugging around kind of context for when JH isn't active

[Zenjamin]

By far the easiest solution is to allow things to be dropped or placed in town claims during JH. Easy solution. This means you can get over walls during JH.

If you don't want to participate in that, you can either defend your walls, or logout inside a building for an hour.

Doesn't punish big guilds, doesn't massively affect smaller guilds. They can't be robbed, but PvP is possible.

[DramaQueen]

The funny part about Bobik's assessment of Darkfall is that he is 100% wrong about why the game died. People were lining up out the door for Darkfall, but the company was so inept and didn't fix core issues with their game.

.

Im Agree. Also Bobik was never PVPer. This is just Bobik's opinion, this is not true.

But, im dont want talk about DarkFall.
So, we have LIF MMO.

The economy is dead, an overabundance of resources, no motivation for wars.
This game is not about PVP, this game about "Bobik's dream".
Ping...we have slideshow.


I think after 1 or 2 months this game will die.
I say that we have a farmer's simulator, it's not interesting for me.