Important Poll

General discussion about Life is Feudal MMO and Life is Feudal: Your Own, The main section and backbone of the forums.

Would you be willing to pay for EVERY character you want to transfer to the main continent?

Yes, I am willing to pay for every character and the price looks reasonable.
1022
42%
Yes, I am willing to pay for every character, but the price seems too high.
494
20%
Yes, I am willing to pay for every character and feel free to raise the prices. LiF is going to be a cool game and worth it! :)
206
8%
No, I don’t want to pay for every character in order to play.
738
30%
 
Total votes : 2460


Firestarter
 
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Re: Important Poll

Post by Firestarter » 28 Jan 2014, 19:26

The first character should be free you should only have to pay fora additional characters.

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Kdchan
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Re: Important Poll

Post by Kdchan » 28 Jan 2014, 19:28

Firestarter wrote:The first character should be free you should only have to pay fora additional characters.


NO, or hackers and multi accounts will be rampant. You have to pay 20 € for the first slot, for every account you made.

20 € as a B2P system is fine and the best system for a sandbox game.
Last edited by Kdchan on 28 Jan 2014, 19:30, edited 2 times in total.
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Enigma
 
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Re: Important Poll

Post by Enigma » 28 Jan 2014, 19:29

I agree with the above mentioned, MO gives you one character for free, and after that, you are required to pay 10 dollars for any additional character slots that you wish to have, up to a limit of 4. In my own opinion, if we are going to be charged to obtain the full game, multiple times, i'd rather not pay at all, that's ridiculous, it's like paying for the game several times over? Just at a discounted price after the first purchase.

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Thokan
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Re: Important Poll

Post by Thokan » 28 Jan 2014, 19:31

Murtag wrote:Making the choice of being a bandit more important is extremly important imo.

And if you go with 20/10 , then i can almost guarantee that all bandits will have a "good" alt

I would almost prefer a 20/30/40/50 way with a 10 E increase per new alt


I think it is a little bit harsh to pin PKers down economically. There is already a risk for each individual character, and I deem it more than enough.

Do remember that the skillpoint loss is exponential the lower your alignment is. Quite exponential. It seems it will be quite possible to grind murderers skillpoints down to oblivion.
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Kdchan
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Re: Important Poll

Post by Kdchan » 28 Jan 2014, 19:33

Just forget to add, the alignment should be shared between characters on the same account too.
If you are evil your entire "family" will be evil.
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Kuroi
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Re: Important Poll

Post by Kuroi » 28 Jan 2014, 19:35

Firestarter wrote:The first character should be free you should only have to pay fora additional characters.


yeah cause people make game just for fun LOL

Enigma wrote:I agree with the above mentioned, MO gives you one character for free, and after that, you are required to pay 10 dollars for any additional character slots that you wish to have, up to a limit of 4. In my own opinion, if we are going to be charged to obtain the full game, multiple times, i'd rather not pay at all, that's ridiculous, it's like paying for the game several times over? Just at a discounted price after the first purchase.


MO is pay to play, it has a monthly subscription fee as well

if you don't pay then you get the free trial restrictions and that's not really "the game"

on LiF instead you just buy a character and you play with it forever free in the "real game"...
Last edited by Kuroi on 28 Jan 2014, 19:40, edited 2 times in total.


Dailato
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Re: Important Poll

Post by Dailato » 28 Jan 2014, 19:37

This is pretty tough for me, since there is no way the price will change the way players handle their main/alt characters, but it will give players with less spare cash the feeling they're getting less out of the game (and even call of p2w).

What I mean by this is if it CAN be broken, it WILL be broken. If you don't want people running around not caring about their reputation or alignment, they CAN'T have multiple characters OR multiple accounts, no matter the price.
10 or 20 euro is a small price to pay to be able to have 1 "don't give 2 shits" PK-character that can happily slaughter whomever whenever he feels like it, and another "Main" character that you spend your time farming/crafting/socializing/everything else on, that can easily provide gear for your PK-character.

If you want people to care about their reputation, and actually make a choice on being a hardcore ganker or not (meaning there's consequences) there can honestly be only one route: 1 character, 1 account, no exceptions. If they get bored of PK-ing (and there's truly no way to return from -50 alignment) make a new character, by which I mean, delete the old one entirely.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not here to hate on PK-ers, I just want them to have some kind of consequence for being PK-ers, if they can have alts then they're automatically no longer PK-ers, they just have a PK-alt (or main, if you prefer to see it that way).

And yeah that means random pk-ers will (should) be rare. Which, if I recall correctly, is exactly as intended.
So yeah, I guess that's my vote, the price is fine by me, I just don't think the vision of "PK-ers should be rare and have consequences" fits in any way with "We can have alts".

And yes that even goes for if we have an insanely slow leveling system (which has allready been stated, we don't), as once you have your crafting (or w/ever) alt levelled up, you still don't need to give two shits on your PK-character. Here's why:
PK-character dies, gets looted, loses skillpoints etc.

One character: oh shit that's gonna take a while to replace, and I can't trade easily cause of my alignment, so I have to keep a stash around somewhere for extra gear, or steal it from some unsuspecting player despite not having gear to properly attack him with... thug life man.

Multiple Characters: Oh I died, well I guess I'll transfer some gear from my crafter and put this guy back under mentor/training while I play on my 4th PK-character for a while, he's got his skills back up by now right? Time to kill some more bitchez, thug life lol.

I hope I've illustrated my point clearly in this respect.

Yours truly -The Pope

P.S. I voted for option nr. 3, I think 20-30 E for getting character of the newbie island is reasonable, if only because you're not a triple A game and you need people's confidence to ask for any higher than 20-30 E if you're not, which you can gain by asking low price and selling large quantity rather than high price of sales.
When in doubt, lower the price, but don't go below 15 E or people will think game is too cheap to be any good.

P.P.S. new post above me while I was typing, if alignment is ACCOUNT rather than character-bound (same for land-claim) then I could see Alts working just fine. That's a good suggestion tbh.
Last edited by Dailato on 28 Jan 2014, 19:45, edited 1 time in total.
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En_Dotter
 
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Re: Important Poll

Post by En_Dotter » 28 Jan 2014, 19:39

Since i played cRPG for quite some time i have my view on characters based on this game.
While it is reasonable to pay for every single character it might not be practical. I know i am going to be an archer, but playing single class can become dull and uniform after some time.
I say use the "main" and "alternative" characters system. So with 1st purchase (of 20e as u stated) you would get your main character and also an alternative (alt). Alt char could have some limitations (i dont have anything to offer about this idea but let it float) but would allow you to experience other classes.

But if you want to do the full extent of your "alt" then you would need to pay the other price (10e as stated).

cRPG uses "Skip the fun" character system as well where u start as lvl 30 (out of 36) and can experiment and do the respec when ever you like and test various things but you cannot gain any experience with it. Something like that could be introduced as well (if possible and if it fits the game) with some changes so that the game doesnt "break".

I think 20e for the game (getting a char to the main continent is buying the game right?) is really acceptable. I was expecting more (30e), but since i dont have a lot of money i find 20e quite pleasing. :)

My poll choice was the last one (for now).
Last edited by En_Dotter on 28 Jan 2014, 19:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Kdchan
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Re: Important Poll

Post by Kdchan » 28 Jan 2014, 19:40

Kuroi wrote:yeah cause people make game just for fun LOL


MO is pay to play, it has a monthly subscription fee as well

if you don't pay then you get the free trial restrictions and that's not really "the game"


Well said mate.
20 € then play for free forever is a very cheap price.
Last edited by Kdchan on 28 Jan 2014, 19:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Straya
 
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Re: Important Poll

Post by Straya » 28 Jan 2014, 19:40

I don't undertsand why you woulnd't just pay €10 more for a alt....?

if your making a alt after playing or maxing your main
you Obvioulsy Love the game enough to make another alt? thus u should be willing to pay a petty pay of €10.... :good:

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Kdchan
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Re: Important Poll

Post by Kdchan » 28 Jan 2014, 19:45

Find me a true sandbox game, ffa pvp full loot where you just pay 20 € and play for free forever.
Some people really don't have a clue, 20 € is a very low and affordable price, and thanks to this you can avoid in a certain degree multi-accounts and hackers.
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Darkfall: Unholy Wars
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LiF: YO

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Palewulf
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Re: Important Poll

Post by Palewulf » 28 Jan 2014, 19:50

I will play only one character, so my vote in this poll would skew the results.


Did not vote.


Balariand
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Re: Important Poll

Post by Balariand » 28 Jan 2014, 19:51

I chose the last option solely for the reason that I think the whole alt system should be reconsiderd. We had some discussions about this on PW (A MB RP mod). You can be the worst asshole and have everyone hate you, but when you are tired of being like that you just change your name and start all over again... Reputation should matter, changing your name shouldn't be possible (save for clan-tags of course). I consider the price for the ticket reasonable though, if this game turns out as planned, selling the tickets for less than 20€ would be a shame IMO.

Sincerely, Balariand

EDIT: I think submitting my vote was pretty stupid in the first place :pardon: You may want to subtract 1 vote off the last choice ^^

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Kdchan
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Re: Important Poll

Post by Kdchan » 28 Jan 2014, 19:53

Indeed if it was for me you can have only 1 character per account, best way to handle everything, from pkers to the whole game economy.

1 account x 1 character x combat skill cap x crafting skill cap BEST WAY, imo.
Played:
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LiF: YO


P0stpwned
 
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Re: Important Poll

Post by P0stpwned » 28 Jan 2014, 19:54

There are serious problems with alts in games like this. People use them as mules/vaults to protect their goods. People will have an alt just to go around killing people randomly (thus making the alignment system worthless). Other problems.

For this reason I'd love to have a payment for every alt. If people are going to use alts for things like that the game might as well benefit financially.

Having said that, the price is a little steep. Maybe I'd be more comfortable if the Canadian Dollar wasn't doing so badly right now vis-a-vis the Euro.


Shirokurokage
 
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Re: Important Poll

Post by Shirokurokage » 28 Jan 2014, 19:58

yes, if its not too too much.


Drenai
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Re: Important Poll

Post by Drenai » 28 Jan 2014, 19:59

I believe the price is reasonable, however I always hoped we could eventually master everything on one character, considering what you are potentially planning, I guess we won't be able to do that, since LiF will have less money.

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Kdchan
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Re: Important Poll

Post by Kdchan » 28 Jan 2014, 20:24

Drenai wrote: however I always hoped we could eventually master everything on one character


Christ, no another Darkfall please where everyone is master warrior/bower/mage/crafter fucking up the whole game turning it to a big quake arena.

The best way to handle the economy is to limit how much you can learn both from combat and crafting skills, or pure merchants and crafters will never be an option, neither the trading and the economy will.

Hopefully Bobik know what to do and leaned very well from games like Darkfall where the economy is pratically zero.
MO is another example of a good game economy because of a good skill cap system.
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Sting5
 
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Re: Important Poll

Post by Sting5 » 28 Jan 2014, 20:34

Yes, I've voted for agreeing with the system and even raising the prices. And you know why? Because multi-chars thing is something I consider not necessary for a word like this: You create a char, You train it the way You feel it to be best. You don't like the set of skills, You rearrange them IMHO. That's it.

If You wish to have few chars - pay more. Seems reasonable to me considering the concept.
QUAERO TOTUS

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Kuroi
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Re: Important Poll

Post by Kuroi » 28 Jan 2014, 20:41

Sting5 wrote:Yes, I've voted for agreeing with the system and even raising the prices. And you know why? Because multi-chars thing is something I consider not necessary for a word like this: You create a char, You train it the way You feel it to be best. You don't like the set of skills, You rearrange them IMHO. That's it.

If You wish to have few chars - pay more. Seems reasonable to me considering the concept.


QFT

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Bobik
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Re: Important Poll

Post by Bobik » 28 Jan 2014, 20:46

Firstly, thank you for all your feedback :good:

Secondly, I would like to add a few comments on some of the posts above:

1. There is no 100% guarantee way of extermination of multi accounts. A lot of browser MMOs suffer because of them and even have a dedicated staff that is hunting for multi accounts and still are not 100% successful in that endeavor. So when we are talking about "single karma across all account" you must keep in mind that artificial limitation on one account will be avoided by creation a new one. And we can not effectively prohibit multiple accounts on one person.

2. Do not forget about Skill Cap and Stat Cap systems (browse our wiki for that, please). You can NOT and will NOT be able to learn ALL skills on a single character. It is not possible by design.

3. You are will not be forced in any way to pay for that additional character. Actually, I think that for most of players there will be only one character they will attend to and they won't bother about alts. We might implement face/body customization of already created characters as some kind of in game shop service for a small price, so there will be literally nothing you will need from a new toon. You will be able to achieve it with your current (unless we are talking about -50 alignment mark).

4. Having "one man army" of alts possessing some part of terrain should not work in LiF I hope. Because 1 player with 5 characters should be really weaker then 5 players with 1 character each, when it will go to battle/siege contest for territory. IT will still be viable for some kind of "hermit in the middle of nowhere" who is playing his own "family" of alts to support himself with all he needs. BUT even that might fail, because for all his needs he might need all the resources in vicinity, that might not be possible. And even if it will be possible, then that spot will be overtaken by some small guild, that will like such tight resources pack.

P.S. And that is what I'm trying desperately to do - avoid P2W model on a background of a failed indiegogo.com campaign and investors demanding return of investments.


SaresITA89
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Re: Important Poll

Post by SaresITA89 » 28 Jan 2014, 20:53

Kdchan wrote:For developers: put in game the SURNAME please, so if someone is called Jon XYZ, the alt will be called Bam XYZ. This avoid pkers to back blue and spies to join enemy clans, all should be account based even if you make more characters.



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Thokan
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Re: Important Poll

Post by Thokan » 28 Jan 2014, 21:31

Bobik wrote:2. Do not forget about Skill Cap and Stat Cap systems (browse our wiki for that, please). You can NOT and will NOT be able to learn ALL skills on a single character. It is not possible by design.


This^

This is the reason why people will want to make alt characters.

There is a reason for why people would want to make an alt character. Why hinder people from doing that with a steep price?
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Demonic
 
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Re: Important Poll

Post by Demonic » 28 Jan 2014, 21:50

On the other way, this adds meta-gaming and that's something I furiously hate. I know it's tied to RolePlaying, but still...

Raxx wrote:Spying and enemy infiltration should not be limited in any form. It adds a whole new depth and immersion to the conquest and political metagame aswell as wars and sieges.


Look, everything should cost some price. Leveling up skills costs time and resources, building village/town/etc. costs time and resources, why should spying be an exception?

Just the fact you can't be killed permanently and you can share everything you know directly with your guildmates even if your characters have no way of contacting each other makes infiltration way to easier than it should be. And if you can use an alt for it (which I fear will be common practice) you risk almost nothing.

But with only one character... well, you have to leave your current guild, make your way to the other guild, convince them you have no ill will, then try to gather intel, all with the risk of your main character.

Still a little bit too easy for me, but at least you have to risk something in order to gan info you need/want.
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Krevente
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Re: Important Poll

Post by Krevente » 28 Jan 2014, 22:05

Raxx wrote:Spying and enemy infiltration should not be limited in any form. It adds a whole new depth and immersion to the conquest and political metagame aswell as wars and sieges.


Those guilds who engage in it constantly in metagame will do it anyways regardless of game mechanics. Having said that though, I agree that you shouldn't be corralled into having the same surname across all characters. People will just buy a second account to get around that feature and there's no monthly sub fee, so the potential increase in income isn't all that worth it.


Demonic wrote:On the other way, this adds meta-gaming and that's something I furiously hate. I know it's tied to RolePlaying, but still...


Sadly, Metagaming will happen whether you attempt to prevent it or not because some people can't compete within the game mechanics as provided.

Our guild specifically holds ourselves back from Metagaming since many of us engage in those sorts of elements as part of our RL jobs so I wouldn't want to unleash that on the community ;)


Heflar
 
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Re: Important Poll

Post by Heflar » 28 Jan 2014, 22:24

warning: wall of text

As a vet player of Mortal Online, i do not agree with the reputation system of -50 = permanent killer, unless it is very difficult to get there.

When i played mortal online the worst people of the server were the "innocent" ones, they would always zerg protect the people sieging our property, there is a murdercount system similar to your reputation system.
once you hit 5 murdercounts you become a murderer, the problem was, i was a mounted archer and in a single fight where we were defending our own property, i shot 32 different people with arrows, i got 32 murdercounts and it takes 8h ingame to burn a single murdercount.

if another person was killed while "burning" murdercounts your timer would reset to 8h, and you would receive another murdercount

i tried my hardest to not be a murderer in that game, but eventually i was forced to be one protecting my own property.

if i am forced into the same thing in LIF then i will be quiting, i cannot afford to make a new char every time someone attacks my property, you need to have a clear system in place to make sure we can defend ourselves without taking on murdercounts, perhaps have a territory, where if somebody enters your territory you can kill them without consequence, if you can do this, i will be happy to pay whatever cost you put on the chars.

i have quit MO because of how much safety the "innocent" people have, i would like a system where your reputation drops if you kill a murderer or a innocent, perhaps a lower reputation drop on killing a murderer, the people of MO would attack a murderer on sight, knowing they can run to safety or call in more people knowing you cannot run to safety.

TL;DR : the reputation system could be griefed, forcing people to buy new people, or quit the game

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Kuroi
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Re: Important Poll

Post by Kuroi » 28 Jan 2014, 22:30

Heflar wrote:TL;DR : the reputation system could be griefed, forcing people to buy new people, or quit the game


MO system is flawed cause you can give a murdercount to anyone that JUST HIT you, on LIF you get a heavy alignment loss just when giving the fatal blow i guess

and if anyone is destroying someone else's house they'll be flagged as Trespasser and probably can be hit/killed with no penalty

Bobik will surely make it clearer


Serith78
 
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Re: Important Poll

Post by Serith78 » 28 Jan 2014, 22:39

I don't like the idea of paying for each character bought into the main world in combination with not being able to raise your alignment at -50. Flagging system griefing is rampant in sandbox PVP games to begin with.

Increasing skill loss the lower alignment goes alone is huge encouragement for flagging system griefing. If players can't raise their alignment back to positive after -50 AND bringing a new character into the main world costs more money.....it's flat out open season for griefers. Even in the case of territorial conflict, using naked "innocent" alts to lower the alignment of your foes becomes a very viable tactic.


Wolfstone
 
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Re: Important Poll

Post by Wolfstone » 28 Jan 2014, 22:48

yes its no much expensive 10e for each caracterforever

nice :evil:

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