Development News #89 — Gather Together to Gather!

What are we currently working on.
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Arrakis
 
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Development News #89 — Gather Together to Gather!

Post by Arrakis » 02 Feb 2018, 17:00

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Hey, Feudalists!

As you’ve noticed - we have implemented a new system of gathering resources, pretty similar to the system used to search for herbs. This is working for the following groups:

    1. Plants
    2. Materials
    3. Edible resources
    4. Herbs
For each group, you will need to use a special ability to find these items nearby - “Search for …”. After using this ability, instanced items will appear on random tiles within 10x10 area. The quantity depends on the player’s actual skill level (which means that the influence of stats matters). The quality depends on both the actual player skill level and quality of the tile, where instance appears.

Most of the item types you gather gives one item per gathering action, but there are a few that give a random amount. These are:

    1. Sling ammo (1-15)
    2. Plant fiber (1-5)
    3. Flint stone (1-2)
Also, the gathering of edible resources and plants has a 10% chance to decrease the soil quality of the tile.

With the new system, leveling up the gathering skill became faster; it now gives you nearly x2 the experience compared to the previous rate. On top of this, the resources are now gathered manually, as opposed to ‘afk resource farming’! We really hope you find this a little bit more immersive and interesting.

We have had a number of questions and concerns regarding how the animal breeding system works, so we put together a short article explaining the system in more detail. You can find that here.

Keep in mind that we do understand that this system is a bit complicated as it is, so we are working on an overhaul. We’re hoping to add the updated animal care system soon™.

Stay tuned for more news!

– The team

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Dracogiraffa
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Re: Development News #89 — Gather Together to Gather!

Post by Dracogiraffa » 02 Feb 2018, 17:04

Will gathering herbs ever become in multiples like the gathering of materials?


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Re: Development News #89 — Gather Together to Gather!

Post by RickySpanish » 02 Feb 2018, 17:07

The random quality of fiber is a real bummer, even when collected on a Q100 tile you'll get as low as quality 4.

So yes the fiber gathering has became faster(and maybe wee bit more fun), and so has leveling NL, but 99/100 of the fiber is unusable because of the random/variation in quality. <--- So really gathering fiber became exponentially worse.
Last edited by RickySpanish on 02 Feb 2018, 17:09, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Development News #89 — Gather Together to Gather!

Post by Khan- » 02 Feb 2018, 17:07

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Re: Development News #89 — Gather Together to Gather!

Post by Yurkas » 02 Feb 2018, 17:11

Gathering plant fiber also drops the soil quality (

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Ombror
 
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Re: Development News #89 — Gather Together to Gather!

Post by Ombror » 02 Feb 2018, 17:21

we'll we one day be able to gather Q100 ??? it's still broken if nature lore 100 + soil 100 provide fibers Q70+/80+...

it also seems that searching for material provide 40% fibers, 55% flint stones and only 5% sling ammos. Our people willing to train sling have no more ammo since your crazy update that make about 99% people upset and willing to stop the game... Please, play your game, test it, and you will see how "clever" your decisions are regarding gameplay and game pleasure (and i don't speak about intelligence).


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Re: Development News #89 — Gather Together to Gather!

Post by RickySpanish » 02 Feb 2018, 17:30

Ombror wrote:we'll we one day be able to gather Q100 ??? it's still broken if nature lore 100 + soil 100 provide fibers Q70+/80+...

.


I wish I could get consistently Q70+, mine are dipping down to q4, q8, q11, when searched for on Q100 (and picked on a Q70-90)

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Grimmblut
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Re: Development News #89 — Gather Together to Gather!

Post by Grimmblut » 02 Feb 2018, 17:39

Two hours of gathering plant fiber on a 10*10 field of Q100 soil with a Nature's Lore skill of 100 has given me: a lot of Q60-Q90, 29 Q90-95, 7 Q96, 8 Q97, 3 Q98, 1 (lol) Q99 and zero Q100 plant fibers.

15 tiles have lost quality from Q100 to as low as Q96.

The new system is broken and shouldn't have been implemented in it's current state.

1)
Reduce the chance of quality deterioration of tiles from 10% to 1%.

2)
On a luck event, the quality of the gathered materials should increase by a flat bonus of 10 to a maximum of Q100 (but hard limited by the Nature's Lore skill of the gatherer)

3)
The lowest quality you can gather on a tile should be 75% of the tile's quality (but again hard limited by the Nature's Lore skill of the gatherer)


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Re: Development News #89 — Gather Together to Gather!

Post by Vorl » 02 Feb 2018, 17:41

Your new system pretty much sucks. This game is grindy enough the way it is without adding yet another stupid long grind (smelting 60-90 anyone?).

The fact that you are screwing people by adding a 10% quality degradation to the process also just sucks, and is way overkill. I could see a .1% quality drop, not a 10%.

Additionally, how can you be so incompetent as to say "we made leveling faster by making gathering 2x experience gains".

In what universe does 2x exp make up for the longer initial gather, then the running around you have to do to get to the nodes for gathering. What this tells me is that you aren't playing your game and have no real idea what you are doing. You are making statements that have no reality to them. If you REALLY wanted to make it a faster grind, you would have to add something more like a 5x or higher multiplier to make up for the extra time that people have to waste running to the resources and the initial search.

Also, The fact that there isn't a wipe, yet you are changing core gaming mechanics means that the people that were in already and have their templates complete have significant advantage over someone just starting now in terms of time that a new player has to invest to get to the same level of play.

Making things a longer and more painful grind is NOT adding content or making game play more fulfilling. It's hard enough trying to talk friends into giving this game a shot with the hours and hours and hours of grinding they will have to do without just screwing people more and more.

Try actually playing your game so you can see what the changes you make do to people. It's pretty clear you don't.

Overall you are more or less sucking the fun of what was at one point a much more fun game a year or more ago.


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Re: Development News #89 — Gather Together to Gather!

Post by RickySpanish » 02 Feb 2018, 18:02

Vorl wrote:
Try actually playing your game so you can see what the changes you make do to people. It's pretty clear you don't.

Overall you are more or less sucking the fun of what was at one point a much more fun game a year or more ago.



^ this,. Little by little with each "improvement" you make it more of a grind.

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Re: Development News #89 — Gather Together to Gather!

Post by HolyAvengerOne » 02 Feb 2018, 18:25

I like the new system. Much better this way.

For those who are mad at those changes, this game was never intended to favor afk and absence of gameplay mechanics like it was before. Sorry, but life IS feudal
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Re: Development News #89 — Gather Together to Gather!

Post by Amrock » 02 Feb 2018, 18:42

I fully support this change too, I see only benefit there, and great ones! :good:

  • No more automated factory to feed the World with granted hightest quality
  • Quality ressources will mean something now
  • Guilds will need to care about having some gatherer manpower


Hightest quality never meant to be a standard... :friends:


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Re: Development News #89 — Gather Together to Gather!

Post by Vorl » 02 Feb 2018, 18:45

HolyAvengerOne wrote:I like the new system. Much better this way.

For those who are mad at those changes, this game was never intended to favor afk and absence of gameplay mechanics like it was before. Sorry, but life IS feudal



They want to make it more interactive, cool, but then increase the EXP realistically to make up for it, don't make it a 10x10, don't make it drop soil q by 10% (.1% would be way more than enough), and don't say stupid crap like "we made the leveling faster by adding 2x exp". Also, the gathering should be more like 2x the amount we currently get with a lot less randomness, especially considering the soil degradation mechanic they added.

This game isn't called "Grind Simulator 2018"

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Re: Development News #89 — Gather Together to Gather!

Post by HolyAvengerOne » 02 Feb 2018, 18:57

RickySpanish wrote:The random quality of fiber is a real bummer, even when collected on a Q100 tile you'll get as low as quality 4.

So yes the fiber gathering has became faster(and maybe wee bit more fun), and so has leveling NL, but 99/100 of the fiber is unusable because of the random/variation in quality. <--- So really gathering fiber became exponentially worse.


There's no random variation. He explains above that it's a function of skill and tile quality. If you see something else, bug it!
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Re: Development News #89 — Gather Together to Gather!

Post by Jazer426 » 02 Feb 2018, 20:11

poorly implemented, and needs improvement on how 100 soil and 100 natures will never produce 100q. Update was a joke and you know it. It's certainly not more immersive just a bigger time sink in an already boorish time sink skill grind.


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Re: Development News #89 — Gather Together to Gather!

Post by Pierre2336 » 02 Feb 2018, 21:14

This change is terrible. I spent 3+ hours gathering plant fibers and ended up with an average of 60q fibers. That's way too much time to spend gathering items that aren't super useful. Why change plant fiber of all things? It ruins the game for newcomers and for the veterans of the game it's just not worth playing for hours gathering crappy materials.
Please think before making the easy jobs take hours and the reward for the now harder jobs is so low the game is a drag to play. Gathering 15 sling ammo is useful but 1-5 plant fiber at 10q drop? It doesn't make up for the additional time it takes to gather. The experience gain isn't worth the efforts put into "node" gathering. The old way of gathering plant fiber was fine. It allowed for people who didn't have much time to play LIF to have a meaningful job while they were afk.

Maybe we can focus on fixing game stability before adding more gameplay features. Launcher issues and game crashes are bigger problems than gather methods at this point.

The community isn't happy with these changes, guild members are quitting due to poor decision making by the devs. Please fix this update.

#Life is grindy

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Re: Development News #89 — Gather Together to Gather!

Post by HolyAvengerOne » 02 Feb 2018, 22:01

Jazer426 wrote:poorly implemented, and needs improvement on how 100 soil and 100 natures will never produce 100q. Update was a joke and you know it. It's certainly not more immersive just a bigger time sink in an already boorish time sink skill grind.


It's not on the tile where you click that the q is counted, it's on the tile on which the plant that appears is.
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Re: Development News #89 — Gather Together to Gather!

Post by RickySpanish » 02 Feb 2018, 22:24

HolyAvengerOne wrote:
There's no random variation. He explains above that it's a function of skill and tile quality. If you see something else, bug it!



Definitely is variation.

Vorl wrote:
This game isn't called "Grind Simulator 2018"


Unfortunately, their main monetization is the grind (because we know barely anyone is spending 13$ on a hatskin in comparison to premium, powerhours, and death insurance). I fear it will only get worse.
Last edited by RickySpanish on 02 Feb 2018, 22:35, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Development News #89 — Gather Together to Gather!

Post by Hodo » 02 Feb 2018, 22:31

Grimmblut wrote:Two hours of gathering plant fiber on a 10*10 field of Q100 soil with a Nature's Lore skill of 100 has given me: a lot of Q60-Q90, 29 Q90-95, 7 Q96, 8 Q97, 3 Q98, 1 (lol) Q99 and zero Q100 plant fibers.

15 tiles have lost quality from Q100 to as low as Q96.

The new system is broken and shouldn't have been implemented in it's current state.

1)
Reduce the chance of quality deterioration of tiles from 10% to 1%.

2)
On a luck event, the quality of the gathered materials should increase by a flat bonus of 10 to a maximum of Q100 (but hard limited by the Nature's Lore skill of the gatherer)

3)
The lowest quality you can gather on a tile should be 75% of the tile's quality (but again hard limited by the Nature's Lore skill of the gatherer)



Good suggestions.
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Re: Development News #89 — Gather Together to Gather!

Post by Marcacleroux » 02 Feb 2018, 22:57

In my opinion it definetly is a better system than the old one! Cheers and good job!
:D

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Re: Development News #89 — Gather Together to Gather!

Post by Deantwo » 02 Feb 2018, 23:51

Arrakis wrote:We have had a number of questions and concerns regarding how the animal breeding system works, so we put together a short article explaining the system in more detail. You can find that here.

Thanks for the animal breeding article... but I have added all the information onto the wiki now, so you can delete it again. ;)
See: https://lifeisfeudal.gamepedia.com/Animal_lore

Why not just update the wiki in the first place? Would mean less double work, thought I don't mind something to do.

Anyway, I added a little more information that you didn't have in your article, such as which animals goes into which building and what food you can use to tame what animals with.
I started on a list of food you can feed them in the buildings, but I actually don't know if they can all just eat everything or if something is reserved for specific animal types.

Please do look it over if you have the time. :)

Arrakis wrote:Keep in mind that we do understand that this system is a bit complicated as it is, so we are working on an overhaul. We’re hoping to add the updated animal care system soon™.

As for the system being complicated. The biggest issue with the game is all the hidden variables you don't show the players. There is no way to see if an animal isn't at a fertility age, there is no way to see what the weather is or will be, there is no way to see if a regional material is mandatory or optional, and so much more.

Start giving players better user feedback and in-game information, then you will see less confusion about mechanics.

A good example is the judgment hour, there is no in-game information about when it is or if it is active. A giant countdown and warning would help a lot to let players know that something big like that is about to happen or is happening and how much longer it is.
Give a list of guilds that are at war with you, clear indication of when and how they can attack you, an in-game calendar that shows when judgment hour is well in advanced, and then it won't be confusing or complex anymore.
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Re: Development News #89 — Gather Together to Gather!

Post by Kmfdm303 » 03 Feb 2018, 02:49

BUT................ you have created a system where NL is penalized in a manner that no other system is. When you fish, you have a rather deterministic method of gathering high quality fish. When you chop a tree down, it is rather deterministic what kind of billets/boards/building logs you are going to gather, but for me to gather 30 Q100 fiber to make a high quality kiln, you have said that it will take me about 3 hours because i can gather about 1000 plant fiber per hour and only 1% will be of Q100 as a 100NL.

When you say that gathering water is always going to be 100Q because you are at a 100Q well or on a 100Q tile, i think you are inappropriately condemning folks who leveled natures's lore to RNG. For the people who do not understand what RNG is, its short for Random Number Generator. If you make folks who do Nature's Lore suffer from this then why don't you make people who make armor suffer equally?

If you make any type of item why not make it 100% random, capped at what your skill is? I know why, because it would make the game insufferable, just like you make nature's lore.

This is going to be refereed to in the future as one of the changes that killed the game. And it seems like you are pushing for it in the heavy handed, blind manor that killed Star Wars Galaxies. I would have hoped that the overall game developer community could have learned from that lesson.

Thing is, that once you have done that major grind to achieve 100 in any skill you should feel like your efforts have a greater effect. When you do anything at max level you should be, with the right preparation, making something that is truly great in the game. What they have done to nature's lore is simply said "hey you did that massive grinding to 100 in nature's lore, now everything you do from here on out is going to be equally as big of a grind" HA HA just you not any other profession.


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Re: Development News #89 — Gather Together to Gather!

Post by Borsuk » 03 Feb 2018, 10:49

We get less resources with new system slowing down other professions to level up or even function. At least you should lower resource requirement in recipes, allow us to get x3 times more or give us alternative methods to get them. No one likes your new system in my guild, especially if we need large amount of plant fiber with high quality.

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Ombror
 
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Re: Development News #89 — Gather Together to Gather!

Post by Ombror » 03 Feb 2018, 10:56

Random quality is such a shame, especially with such a huge difference between best and worst quality on a same tile, from 60/70 to 100. IMO it MUST be quality = soil quality, like the old system, if you really (really) want to kill the game and players effort to reach 100 in NL, +/-10% should be really enough, not more !

soil 100 + skill 100 MUST grant Q100 material, or never worst than Q90 !

In the same way, fisher 100 + water 100 + fishing pole 100 grants fishes from 50+ to 100 !!! 80-100 should be more reallistic, and we will spent less time gathering thing that we throw on the ground.

lost time in game = bad time in game = angry players

Stop working on actual game mechanics (that works fine) and add more game content (this is obvious, but also repair bugs, server borders, crashes, lags...). Forcing people to waste more and more time on a game has NEVER be the solution.

Patch note that modify actual gameplay = fail (win only if you work on trading posts)
Patch note that add new content / mechanics / objects... = win !

We are all waiting for new content, new skins for clothes / armors (add more skins, don't replace actual ones !), new animations, new events, new PNJ, new buildings... I mean FREE ones, not new skins to sale :evil:

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Re: Development News #89 — Gather Together to Gather!

Post by Darkbouzouf » 03 Feb 2018, 16:45

Arrakis wrote:
Image


Keep in mind that we do understand that this system is a bit complicated as it is, so we are working on an overhaul. We’re hoping to add the updated animal care system soon™.

Stay tuned for more news!

– The team


Cool, you just broke the gathering systeml (nobody was complaing about it before

So now as nobody is complaining about aniaml lore you are going to break it to...


@all the community, please stop complaining about lack of content, and lags, perhapes they will focus on it so...


I really wonder why you spend so much time and energy on things that works fine ?!

Best exemple of it is the Masterwork vase, old skin was really fine, and you put that green shot instead... Ok i dislike it but why CHANGING instead of ADDING ?! was is previous skin not availaible for now ?! what the point to suppress content ?! is a fucking vase going to kill all the gameplay ? i don't think so...
A sure thing is that you wastes time not to improve content, but to change it whereas it was "free" to add some....
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Re: Development News #89 — Gather Together to Gather!

Post by RickySpanish » 03 Feb 2018, 19:30

Darkbouzouf wrote:


Cool, you just broke the gathering systeml (nobody was complaing about it before

So now as nobody is complaining about aniaml lore you are going to break it to...


@all the community, please stop complaining about lack of content, and lags, perhapes they will focus on it so...


I really wonder why you spend so much time and energy on things that works fine ?!



Amen! Instead of making this game more of a boring grind, maybe work on something that promotes PvP? There is a reason all the YO servers have 100x skill gain + 10x terraforming speed; that shit isn't fun.


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Re: Development News #89 — Gather Together to Gather!

Post by Biberteddy » 04 Feb 2018, 03:24

I like the new gather system- it is a funny minigame, so you dont have to go AFK while gathering Fiber- crops....

Big + :good: :good: :good: :good:

But:
As many of us already posted, the Dropchance should be adjusted !

ATM there is NO WAY to gather fiber with a Quality of 100 - even not with High Statted Luck Jewelry- Luck Buff- and Nature Lore 100

This makes many of us pretty tilty :S

My Whishlist:

- Make Q100 possible !
- Balance the Soil Quality reduction a bit!
- Adjust the Quality Overall.

-> ATM you gather Fiber bewteen 1-100 Quality- this spamms your inventory that hard, so you can't even check what Quality you looted yet :/
In my opinion it's fine if we can loot
Q 10 Q 25 Q50 Q75 Q100

So the different Q Stack spamm will be reduced :)



***
Maybe (just an idea) you can balance the Quality reduction of the Soil -> Each time you gather a Fiber/herb ... with a Quality same/higher than the Soil it was gathered from by 1 or 0.5 :)


Keep on DEVS !
You do an awsome job- i like your ideas , just the Balance is bad or not really thoughtful atm :crazy:

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Barlin
 
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Re: Development News #89 — Gather Together to Gather!

Post by Barlin » 04 Feb 2018, 15:24

The easiest solution, in my opinion, would be to add a range to the search, similiar to the the metal-prospecting - with the possibility to search on only one (100q) tile for plants.

That way players can decide whether they want to search on multible tiles to farm plant fibers with random quality fast or search on only one tile to farm less random quality slower.

The code would also be pretty much done, what would be left is to add an 2d icon for the search menue, which is a easy task for every artist..


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Re: Development News #89 — Gather Together to Gather!

Post by Vorl » 05 Feb 2018, 20:01

This really comes down to a stupid change that they didn't really think over and plan out well.

I think this is their stupid attempt to combat bots, BUT they made botting legal (mostly because their systems are so poorly designed or monotonous that people can't stand sitting and clicking the same button over and over and over).

You want to make the game more interesting?

increase skill gains so it doesn't take hours and hours and hours of monotonous button pressing while doing something else to get skills up.

Increase materials gained per click, again avoiding the many many hours just to do simple things in game. You already make more advanced things harder by the regional resource system.

You can't compare this to the hours and hours spent in other MMOs, because in those other MMOs you actually DO interesting stuff. You get tangible and useful rewards. You get gear, you get exp, you get levels. In this game you get useless crap that generally just needs to be thrown away, and you get to look at your toons back sitting in your camp for lots of hours. It's not exactly interesting or rewarding.


Once you finally manage to grind out your template, and can make stuff that's useful and meaningful the game gets more interesting. Until that point this game just sucks. Your grind to hit 400 skill points in any template should be less than 20-30 hours with the monotonous skill systems they have. Not 50-200 if you are unlucky and get one of the sucky paths that takes TONs of mats to grind, or very low skill increases.

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Re: Development News #89 — Gather Together to Gather!

Post by HolyAvengerOne » 10 Feb 2018, 17:14

RickySpanish wrote:
Darkbouzouf wrote:


Cool, you just broke the gathering systeml (nobody was complaing about it before

So now as nobody is complaining about aniaml lore you are going to break it to...


@all the community, please stop complaining about lack of content, and lags, perhapes they will focus on it so...


I really wonder why you spend so much time and energy on things that works fine ?!



Amen! Instead of making this game more of a boring grind, maybe work on something that promotes PvP? There is a reason all the YO servers have 100x skill gain + 10x terraforming speed; that shit isn't fun.


Some of us do enjoy that. Considering a character on Epleland next to slow down progress even more.
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