logging , mining and terraforming.

General discussion about Life is Feudal MMO and Life is Feudal: Your Own, The main section and backbone of the forums.

Proximo
Alpha Tester
 
Posts: 461
Joined: 31 Dec 2013, 01:22
Location: Among the Shadows

Re: logging , mining and terraforming.

Post by Proximo » 04 Jan 2014, 15:07

Antiblitz wrote:yes, thats why i meant use the decay system.

Its scripted to decay mines and caves over a time period, once decay has taken place, further decay of the now dirt filled area begins, after a period of time, like say 3 months(just a number, not what i chose specifically), the decay is done, and newly spawned minerals will have arrived. This alleviates restarting issues, and only respawns minerals in the decayed shaft parts, which was what was mined before. Anything maintained will be safe and secure. I used the term of an underground restart as just a layman term to give people an idea of what could be done.

*Decayed shafts collapse, further decay occurs resulting in mineral spawns of the old shaft

*Maintained shafts dont decay, so no worries


Ah I see, that makes sense. Since shafts can collapse already I'm interested in how hills or even mountains shift in response. If it fills in the shaft or shafts in the event of a collapse does the whole mountain move downwards? even if it's a very small amount.

Arrakis09 wrote:It's all nice, tunnels and mines decaying and collapsing after time.. But I don't really understand why would you suggest minerals respawn if there is no really chance to see them exploited in next 20-30years? What's the point?

Anyway every game server of any mmo really requires once in a while(a month or so) a few hours of maintenence, so I doubt server shut downs can be avoided.


Arrakis I have no idea where you pulled 20-30 years from besides your ass. You can as Blitz said make it any amount of time that you determine based off game balancing.

Were not talking about server maintenance at all. Doesn't change the fact the game is designed to be a persistent world.

User avatar
Arrakis
 
Posts: 5455
Joined: 25 Oct 2013, 14:11
Location: Space

Re: logging , mining and terraforming.

Post by Arrakis » 04 Jan 2014, 15:59

Proximo wrote:Arrakis I have no idea where you pulled 20-30 years from besides your ass. You can as Blitz said make it any amount of time that you determine based off game balancing.

Were not talking about server maintenance at all. Doesn't change the fact the game is designed to be a persistent world.


I guess you didn't read what I have written, and I pulled 20-30 years from Bobik's quote from the post written not so long ago:

Bobik wrote:A rough estimate calculations:
If 5000 players will spend 40 minutes each day mining for iron ore with top quality tools with 100 Mining skill, with someone helping them to move all that ore (they will be only mining) and with some reasons of unlimited stamina, then...

...it will take 10,876 real life days (almost 30 years) to completely mine out all the iron ore in our world.


But I guess you know better than him how much it will take, don't you friend? :)


Sting5
 
Posts: 158
Joined: 14 Nov 2013, 15:42
Location: Lithuania

Re: logging , mining and terraforming.

Post by Sting5 » 05 Jan 2014, 10:21

Arrakis09 wrote:
Bobik wrote:A rough estimate calculations:
If 5000 players will spend 40 minutes each day mining for iron ore with top quality tools with 100 Mining skill, with someone helping them to move all that ore (they will be only mining) and with some reasons of unlimited stamina, then...

...it will take 10,876 real life days (almost 30 years) to completely mine out all the iron ore in our world.
WOW, nice indeed. But if the mine collapses, will the empty space will be filled with new terra cells, or will the upper cells simply fall on the empty space?

I've recently found a game where terraforming is done in other ways:
http://youtu.be/Wecid5riagc
this seems to be even more realistic than digging squares out of the ground. But maybe it will bring problems to the game as well, I don't know.
QUAERO TOTUS


Telakh
Alpha Tester
 
Posts: 688
Joined: 06 Oct 2011, 04:59
Location: Two steps from Hell

Re: logging , mining and terraforming.

Post by Telakh » 05 Jan 2014, 12:33

A shaft collapses in 2 days and it is filled with soft rock. It contains no resources in it but is significantly easier to dig. Digging process requires specific tools and takes a while to complete, it is not instant. Don't get yourself fooled by the admin digging in movies
ImageYou are entering    Time ParadoxImage


Proximo
Alpha Tester
 
Posts: 461
Joined: 31 Dec 2013, 01:22
Location: Among the Shadows

Re: logging , mining and terraforming.

Post by Proximo » 06 Jan 2014, 00:24

Arrakis09 wrote:
Proximo wrote:Arrakis I have no idea where you pulled 20-30 years from besides your ass. You can as Blitz said make it any amount of time that you determine based off game balancing.

Were not talking about server maintenance at all. Doesn't change the fact the game is designed to be a persistent world.


I guess you didn't read what I have written, and I pulled 20-30 years from Bobik's quote from the post written not so long ago:

Bobik wrote:A rough estimate calculations:
If 5000 players will spend 40 minutes each day mining for iron ore with top quality tools with 100 Mining skill, with someone helping them to move all that ore (they will be only mining) and with some reasons of unlimited stamina, then...

...it will take 10,876 real life days (almost 30 years) to completely mine out all the iron ore in our world.


But I guess you know better than him how much it will take, don't you friend? :)


Your throwing facts at a theoretical system that doesn't exist. IF it did exist wee were talking about individual mine shaft decay. You just quoted Bobik on the ENTIRE WORLDS ORE SUPPLY DEPLETION RATE WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT.

I'm tired of trying to explain things to you. I'm just going to ignore everything you say now.

User avatar
Arrakis
 
Posts: 5455
Joined: 25 Oct 2013, 14:11
Location: Space

Re: logging , mining and terraforming.

Post by Arrakis » 06 Jan 2014, 03:23

Proximo wrote:Your throwing facts at a theoretical system that doesn't exist. IF it did exist wee were talking about individual mine shaft decay. You just quoted Bobik on the ENTIRE WORLDS ORE SUPPLY DEPLETION RATE WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT.

I'm tired of trying to explain things to you. I'm just going to ignore everything you say now.


Yes, and what you are talking about here at this current moment for some unknown reason is something that was already told and explained before, and also there is some genious idea about magic reapperance of minerals after exploiting them.

And you sir should stop with this aggresive altitude, it won't help anybody and won't make anyone feel better. Why won't you just chill out and be calm like everybody else in here? That would certainly look nice.

Cheers.


Antiblitz
 
Posts: 79
Joined: 27 Oct 2013, 17:07

Re: logging , mining and terraforming.

Post by Antiblitz » 06 Jan 2014, 04:53

it doesnt mean things cant change, just because he planned it one way doesnt mean it will work as intended and stay in the game.

Secondly, i dont see how that could be exploited anyways, a 6-12 month reload of the decayed old mineshafts into something different(it doesnt have to all be minerals, its randomly generated, just like the underground normally would be) doesnt scream exploitable to me. You would be the worst exploiters ive ever heard of to wait months to "get an edge" on everyone else.

User avatar
Arrakis
 
Posts: 5455
Joined: 25 Oct 2013, 14:11
Location: Space

Re: logging , mining and terraforming.

Post by Arrakis » 06 Jan 2014, 12:44

Antiblitz wrote:it doesnt mean things cant change, just because he planned it one way doesnt mean it will work as intended and stay in the game.

You're quite right in here, but it's just that thing that we should test the game mechanics first before suggesting things that can change very basics of gameplay, there are tons of suggestions that I doubt are taken seriously at this stage, when none of us really was inside and tested all these things implemented already.

Antiblitz wrote:Secondly, i dont see how that could be exploited anyways, a 6-12 month reload of the decayed old mineshafts into something different(it doesnt have to all be minerals, its randomly generated, just like the underground normally would be) doesnt scream exploitable to me. You would be the worst exploiters ive ever heard of to wait months to "get an edge" on everyone else.

And that's actually logical idea, but I guess it will be just dirt and rocks that just will cover the tunnels if they are not maintaned, I doubt there will be anything else really.


Makiol
 
Posts: 39
Joined: 29 Dec 2013, 12:58
Location: Italy

Re: logging , mining and terraforming.

Post by Makiol » 06 Jan 2014, 15:08

In the first time i was for the respawn but now i'm for no respawn because guilds and kingdoms will fight for the resources and not stay on their mines just waiting respaning ores.

Is a nice choice to add the refill of mine with soft stone but IMO lif doesn't need respawn of ores or it will be too much peacefull.
I think this because in my experience on playing on servers of minecraft. At the first stage the opening of the server there is a lots of activity: people fighting for the right post where creating their city, searching materials, and so on. After few time (because the resources distribution in minecraft are studied for singleplay and not multyplayers) people stop playing at all cuz everyone have everythings and don't wnat to lose what they want to fight for the same they have already.
A cookie, a cookie, my kingdom for a cookie!!! cit. Richard III

User avatar
Arrakis
 
Posts: 5455
Joined: 25 Oct 2013, 14:11
Location: Space

Re: logging , mining and terraforming.

Post by Arrakis » 06 Jan 2014, 15:19

Makiol wrote:In the first time i was for the respawn but now i'm for no respawn because guilds and kingdoms will fight for the resources and not stay on their mines just waiting respaning ores.

Is a nice choice to add the refill of mine with soft stone but IMO lif doesn't need respawn of ores or it will be too much peacefull.
I think this because in my experience on playing on servers of minecraft. At the first stage the opening of the server there is a lots of activity: people fighting for the right post where creating their city, searching materials, and so on. After few time (because the resources distribution in minecraft are studied for singleplay and not multyplayers) people stop playing at all cuz everyone have everythings and don't wnat to lose what they want to fight for the same they have already.


Yeah excacly, and having control over some resources will be vital part of diplomacy and trading, different guilds will have different resources to trade, so if there was actuall respawn of ores well, some nice part of the game would just die.


Sting5
 
Posts: 158
Joined: 14 Nov 2013, 15:42
Location: Lithuania

Re: logging , mining and terraforming.

Post by Sting5 » 10 Jan 2014, 04:53

Arrakis09 wrote:Yeah excacly, and having control over some resources will be vital part of diplomacy and trading, different guilds will have different resources to trade, so if there was actuall respawn of ores well, some nice part of the game would just die.
The more I read forums the more I love this game - it probably would be one of first games that would hold the thrill of game for a very long time - You're never safe, Your land/resources are never safe - You are always on edge and have to work to survive. Even building structures will take real effort because You can't just grind resources all day, You have to take care of food and personal security. This will be even more difficult to gather spare resources/equipment for expeditions. Sounds very real-time simulation to me.
QUAERO TOTUS


trashman
Alpha Tester
 
Posts: 166
Joined: 18 Oct 2011, 05:33

Re: logging , mining and terraforming.

Post by trashman » 27 Jan 2014, 10:07

I rather like the idea that there is a nice mix of being able to control a very set border as land of the realm, but that does not give you a distinct or permanent control of a resource as they are depleteable and are not simply located on nodes that respawn.( Such as in Dawn Tide).

This will make warfare take a different direction as a means to control large concentration of resources.


SaresITA89
Alpha Tester
 
Posts: 254
Joined: 27 Oct 2013, 17:26
Location: Italy

Re: logging , mining and terraforming.

Post by SaresITA89 » 29 Jan 2014, 12:57

Bobik wrote:
About tunnel under claim. There will be no mechanisms to prevent that. BUT there is a mechanism that prohibit you to make any terraforming actions on the surface of someone's claim. So you will be able to build a tunnel UNDER someone's claim, but you won't be able to dig OUT on the surface of someones claim. So there is still no way for you to get inside that claim other then just through the open door, gate or wicket.


If I dug a tunnel under my house, can someone connect his tunnel to my and then use my entrance to the tunnel to get into my territory?

P.S.:
this is the most difficult period that I have ever written in English, I hope you understand.

User avatar
Bobik
Project Leader
 
Posts: 1156
Joined: 30 Apr 2011, 15:06

Re: logging , mining and terraforming.

Post by Bobik » 29 Jan 2014, 13:54

Yup, it will be possible. So it might be a good idea to protect your tunnel exit point with additional perimeter of fence. Or just don't build such tunnels at all.


Demonic
 
Posts: 115
Joined: 17 Nov 2013, 23:37

Re: logging , mining and terraforming.

Post by Demonic » 29 Jan 2014, 14:01

Since we are discussing a tunnels...

What if I dig off a part of the hillside. I then build a small house in this place with two entrances, one facing the hill. Will I be able to mine into that hill from the house?

Damn... I'm not sure if you'll understand what I mean :D
Image


SaresITA89
Alpha Tester
 
Posts: 254
Joined: 27 Oct 2013, 17:26
Location: Italy

Re: logging , mining and terraforming.

Post by SaresITA89 » 29 Jan 2014, 14:18

Bobik wrote:Yup, it will be possible. So it might be a good idea to protect your tunnel exit point with additional perimeter of fence. Or just don't build such tunnels at all.


Ths for reply

User avatar
Bobik
Project Leader
 
Posts: 1156
Joined: 30 Apr 2011, 15:06

Re: logging , mining and terraforming.

Post by Bobik » 29 Jan 2014, 14:38

Demonic wrote:Since we are discussing a tunnels...

What if I dig off a part of the hillside. I then build a small house in this place with two entrances, one facing the hill. Will I be able to mine into that hill from the house?

Damn... I'm not sure if you'll understand what I mean :D

I believe I did :D
There are 2 possible scenarios:
1. You had lowered cells of that hill to flatten ground for that house. In that case, because of a land fall effect angle of that hill will still not be vertical, so entrance to the mine will not be absolutely seamless with your house.
2. You have digged those cells (kinda a tunnel that does not have a ceiling). In that case you will be unable to build anything on that tunnel floor, so that house will be even further from tunnel entrance.

So in both cases "no", you can't perfectly block tunnel entrance with your building and use its door to enter that tunnel.


Demonic
 
Posts: 115
Joined: 17 Nov 2013, 23:37

Re: logging , mining and terraforming.

Post by Demonic » 29 Jan 2014, 14:44

I guess you wanted to write ..."no", you can't perfectly...

But anyway, daaamn, that's shame. I meant the second scenario. Are you sure you can't change it? This would be cool :)
Image

User avatar
Bobik
Project Leader
 
Posts: 1156
Joined: 30 Apr 2011, 15:06

Re: logging , mining and terraforming.

Post by Bobik » 29 Jan 2014, 15:13

Demonic wrote:I guess you wanted to write ..."no", you can't perfectly...

But anyway, daaamn, that's shame. I meant the second scenario. Are you sure you can't change it? This would be cool :)

Yup, fixed that.
No, that will not change. That is a basics of the games rules.
You can not construct unmovable objects on tunnel floor. And land fall effect will prevent you from making a dirt wall with just lowering your ground level.


Demonic
 
Posts: 115
Joined: 17 Nov 2013, 23:37

Re: logging , mining and terraforming.

Post by Demonic » 29 Jan 2014, 15:21

Such a pity, it would make for cool hidden storage room :)

Well, whatever. I guess i'll just go with fortified mine entrance then.
Image


SaresITA89
Alpha Tester
 
Posts: 254
Joined: 27 Oct 2013, 17:26
Location: Italy

Re: logging , mining and terraforming.

Post by SaresITA89 » 29 Jan 2014, 15:47

I do not understand what you're talking about, but I have another question:

Can I build a house inside a tunnel?


LIF wants to be real, but I would like to live like a dwarf in a classic fantasy.


Demonic
 
Posts: 115
Joined: 17 Nov 2013, 23:37

Re: logging , mining and terraforming.

Post by Demonic » 29 Jan 2014, 15:53

Bobik wrote:You can not construct unmovable objects on tunnel floor.


That means no house. Chest or chair is another thing. So you can live underground, because you can build chests and movable furnishings inside the tunnels, but you can't buil anything unmovable (i.e. palisade, wall etc...)
Image


SaresITA89
Alpha Tester
 
Posts: 254
Joined: 27 Oct 2013, 17:26
Location: Italy

Re: logging , mining and terraforming.

Post by SaresITA89 » 29 Jan 2014, 16:08

Demonic wrote:
Bobik wrote:You can not construct unmovable objects on tunnel floor.


That means no house. Chest or chair is another thing. So you can live underground, because you can build chests and movable furnishings inside the tunnels, but you can't buil anything unmovable (i.e. palisade, wall etc...)


NOOOOO!!!!!!!


JiminyCricket29
 
Posts: 5
Joined: 29 Jan 2014, 04:38
Location: Pennsylvannia, US

Re: logging , mining and terraforming.

Post by JiminyCricket29 » 03 Feb 2014, 06:04

After reading through this thread it seems to me there may be chances for a mine to collapse or for people to be trapped in a mine if they try to live in it? I guess there will be a system of mine supports needed to insure your mine doesn't collapse maybe? Also if say a guild mines very deep and wide within a mountain it seems like a mountain might collapse in on it's self as well. Maybe I'm getting the wrong impression though. It makes me curious how weight of a city built above a mine might come into play, but that might be off topic. I might be making it more complicated then possible with programming limitations I don't know.


Sting5
 
Posts: 158
Joined: 14 Nov 2013, 15:42
Location: Lithuania

Re: logging , mining and terraforming.

Post by Sting5 » 03 Feb 2014, 07:33

Yes, in the stream video Bobik mentioned that there will be a tunnel support system to prevent them from collapsing.
QUAERO TOTUS


SaresITA89
Alpha Tester
 
Posts: 254
Joined: 27 Oct 2013, 17:26
Location: Italy

Re: logging , mining and terraforming.

Post by SaresITA89 » 03 Feb 2014, 07:39

JiminyCricket29 wrote:After reading through this thread it seems to me there may be chances for a mine to collapse or for people to be trapped in a mine if they try to live in it? I guess there will be a system of mine supports needed to insure your mine doesn't collapse maybe? Also if say a guild mines very deep and wide within a mountain it seems like a mountain might collapse in on it's self as well. Maybe I'm getting the wrong impression though. It makes me curious how weight of a city built above a mine might come into play, but that might be off topic. I might be making it more complicated then possible with programming limitations I don't know.


This:

Sting5 wrote:Yes, in the stream video Bobik mentioned that there will be a tunnel support system to prevent them from collapsing.



This is video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SikSIRHSGI

Return to General Discussion