Flux is too time consuming to obtain

-6
If I start harvesting herbs at daybreak, by nightfall I can expect to manufacture about 15 flux. Enough to make only a single steel ingot. That makes steel incredibly slow to manufacture...monotonously slow in fact. Likewise for mortar but not quite so bad because the flux requirement in that recipe is closer to being sensible. And that's with a 100 level in herb gathering skill. To me this does not seem at all as though I am very skilled at gathering in any sensible way.

Why is this? I see three main reasons for it.
First, you must sort through a monstrous pile of herbs as you go. They do not stack or organize themselves in your inventory in any reasonable manner as you obtain them, and therefore every herb you pick, after the first ten or so, requires that you dork around with your inventory screen to keep the process manageable in such a way that you can remain effectively perceptive of what you are looking for. This is very time consuming and also, more importantly, very wasteful of the time you spend working, simply because you must constantly stop harvesting for ten seconds or so in order to sort and manage and stack in the inventory panel that which you find.
Second, herbs are far too difficult to select with the mouse. I ran some statistics for you and found that in the course of one day (roughly dawn to dusk), I harvested 247 herbs and averaged 12 mouse clicks per herb in order to get my toon to cut them down. One herb took 74 clicks to get it, another took 54! This, in my opinion, is unacceptable. Nothing is more wasteful of my time than having to repeatedly click so much only to have nothing at all happen. I figure my production could be improved by about 500%, or more, if only I could get every herb harvested using only one or maybe two mouse clicks.
Third, the requirements for flux in the mortar and steel recipes are unreasonably high when one considers how rare flux is.

I suggest two things to make the game more playable:
First, lower the flux requirements in recipes. Six for a steel ingot and two for a mortar is reasonable, in my opinion.
Second, make flux more common. Maybe by introducing a second alternative means of finding it besides harvesting herbs.

I think naptha and flavoring are fine the way they are. I don't have any problems getting what I need of those.
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Comments (16)
  • Accepted Answer

    Wednesday, July 15 2015, 08:52 AM - #Permalink
    1
    that's why you need to play in community, with other herb gatherer to produce enough flux/naphta per day...
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    Friday, July 17 2015, 08:27 AM - #Permalink
    2
    Sorry, I disagree with that logic. Yeah if you got 10 people doing it you get 10 times the production, but you also have 10 times the demand.
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    Friday, July 17 2015, 08:55 AM - #Permalink
    1
    nope... when all the armors are done, a certain quantity of tools are done, when buildings are done, no, the demand start to stagnate...

    and remember, your flux plants are not the same for your partners... (if not lucky enough some will be) then, all thje plants you gather will multiply the quantiy they produce of flux and all the plants they gather will do the same for you...
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    Friday, July 17 2015, 09:17 AM - #Permalink
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    The mechanism as it is now I find highly sufficient, especially when there are more around to share/trade your herbs, but if your alone it is good as it is now at this time.
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    Friday, July 17 2015, 12:47 PM - #Permalink
    4
    Lol. This game is about teamplay you know? When you have like 3-4 herbalists, its easy to get flux or naptha because almost every herb you´ll gather could be used for flux by you or one of your friends. And when you are alone, you can always trade herbs.
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    Friday, July 17 2015, 01:07 PM - #Permalink
    1
    you are not supposed to do all the work craft by yourself... and when your city will be finished, flux will become nearly useless and naphta will become the most wanted... why ? 'cause you don't know ?!

    I think naptha and flavoring are fine the way they are. I don't have any problems getting what I need of those.


    then, we don't need to change flux...
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    Monday, July 27 2015, 05:14 PM - #Permalink
    1
    @ axe
    if you have difficulties with clicking on the smaller herbs, this trick might help you:
    Click and hold down RMB and move the curser over the herb until it is highlighted, then just click with the LMB at the same time. Saves you a lot of clicks ;-)

    Now, about the flux:
    Firstly, i don't like flux as it is handled at the moment. It doesn't make sense that you need a mixture of two herbs to produce steel and mortar. Herbalism has nothing to do with steel production/structural engeneering. You may involve alchemists but involving herbalists is just completly unlogical. Obviously i also have a problem with the skills alchemy and herbalism, they are atm basically the same (read 'Expand Alchemy' thread). Furthermore i am not a fan of the randomness of herb properties as i would prefer a resource per region system more (swamp, forest, desert, etc.), which is impossible with random herbs.
    The system as it is now is only perfect for people who like to do monotonous work. Gathering thousands of herbs and sorting them by type and quality is not really the definition of fun. In progressed stages of the game it will be all about quality of items, therefore you will have to gather only pristine herbs, which are even harder to get.
    Who in the right mind wants to be a herbalist on those conditions? It is monotonous and tedious work. And in MMO you have only around 700 skillpoints of which you use already 300 to be a master herbalist. Then it only makes sense to invest another 200 skillpoints to become a master healer and alcemist, which leaves only 200 points for other stuff. So you will just run around to look for herbs most of your time in game. And since you can look for herbs in the same spot over and over again you won't get around much.

    Lol. This game is about teamplay you know? When you have like 3-4 herbalists, its easy to get flux or naptha because almost every herb you´ll gather could be used for flux by you or one of your friends.

    In the MMO you have a limited amount of skillpoints, as i said before. Also your guild will be limited to maximum 40 people (maxed out Monument) and you will need farmers and blacksmiths and terraformers and architects and miners and carpenters. I don't think you can afford to have 3-4 herbalists in one guild, definately not in early stages of your settlement. And trading with other guilds might not allways be easy (Long distances, hostility, not interested in trading with you and so on).
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    Thursday, August 06 2015, 01:23 AM - #Permalink
    1
    First, we almost know nothing about MMO, so now we should discuss LIF:YO instead. Second, count with me: you have like 400 skill cap and i dont know why it should be so small but for counting purposes i´ll use that. You can spend 100 on terraforming, 60 nature´s lore, 60 herbalism, 60 gathering, so you have 100+60+60+60=280 so you can adjust herbalism and so on at 100, you´ll use your skillcap and you will be able to gather quickly and able to help with quick terraforming, where is the problem? And with skillcap 700 you´ll be able to have it up to 100 in one lane and you can do even farming and animal lore up to 100 And i don´t understand why now you are talking abou MMo when you don´t know skillcap or even if skill tree will be same... Sorting can be easily done with CTRL
    Last thing, guild with 40 members cant have 4 herbalists? Seems strange to me. I don´t know why should i put some herbs into walls but gaining flux is not hard!
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    Thursday, August 06 2015, 10:01 AM - #Permalink
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    yep, but the basic skillcap is 600, not 400, then you have a full craft line and a 100 skill bonus...
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    Wednesday, August 19 2015, 11:53 AM - #Permalink
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    @ Hanz-knife & Khan-Bjornsen
    Why do you think we know nothing about the MMO? As i understand it LiF:YO is just the testing ground for the MMO. The MMO will be just the same as YO with a bigger server (10000+), a bigger map (21x21) (if you click on Account and then on Server Status you can even look at the map for the MMO) and slightly different claim and guild mechanics. The server settings will also be more strict than in YO, as far as i know skill progression will be 1 and skill cap will be 600 (i think up to 700 if you include intelligence bonus) and you won't be able to create more than one character unless you pay for more.Therefore it definately makes sense to keep the MMO in mind.
    As far as i know it wasn't planed to develop LiF:YO. Due to the lack of funding they couldn't start developing a MMO right away, so they created YO as a compromise and intermediate step to finance the MMO.

    Now, about the calculation:
    With my calculation i wanted to clarify, that you have to specialise your character, since you can only master one skill line. Anything but mastering high tier skills makes no sense, since maximum quality of any product is limited by your skill. It is only logical, that quality will be more important later on (A q=100 sword makes more damage than a sword with less quality). Therefore your 100+60+60+60 calculation is not very smart. 60 nature's lore means you are not able to find pristine herbs (q up to 100), 60 gathering means you can't gather pristine herbs and herbalism 60 means you can't produce stuff with more than 60 quality, even if you have q=100 resources.They all have to be at least 90. But anyways, that is not my point. My point is, that if you specialise, you will have to spend most of your gaming time with your chosen skill line. And in case of Herbalism/Alchemy line, the most time consuming skill is gathering. Of course you can do some other stuff on the side, but only using tier 1 or 2 skills. In case of a Herbalist it would make sense to combine it with Fishing/Hunting and Farming and to have some points in Piety (30 to be able to increase your Alignment). Also you need to spend some time on your fighting skills, since wars are inevitable. Question is: How many hours do you spend in game?
    And to make it worse:
    Flux and Naphta (and Food Flavor) are the only basic resources that require trading to increase production output in a significant way, due to the random nature of herb effects. And with basic resources i mean resources, that are produced out of gathered resources and needed to build or craft other stuff. The only purpose of Flux is to make steel, nothing else, while every other ingredient has more than one purpose. Also it is very difficult to find high quality Flux-Herbs, even with 100 Nature's Lore, therefore most of your product will be of inferior Quality. Herbalism is only good for 3 things, Naphta, Flux and Food Flavor, since all the preparations are useless without Alchemy. And with Alchemy you won't need those preparations, because you can do it directly with Alchemy out of the herbs. Well, even Naphta, Flux and Food Flavor can be prepared with Alchemy the same way, in fact even better. Food Flavor is so absolutely useless, since you don't need high quality cooked food if you have apples.
    To sum it all up: The whole skill line is mostly good for 2 things, Naphta and Flux, and on the side you may produce some potions, which are mostly unnecessary and require alcohol (Farming/Cooking), and help healing wounds of other players.
    And that is all beside the point, that the whole Flux thing is unrealistic, as i said, Herbalism should not be involved in steel production. And in this game, Herbalism is all about steel and lampoil (aka Naphta) production. And Herbalism gets replaced as soon as Alchemy is leveled up.
    I find that highly unsatisfying. Well, of course it is an early access game, but release is in October (!), and there are no signs, that this will be improved anytime soon.
    But don't get me wrong, i still love the game, it has so much potential, but if some things don't improve in future updates i might lose interest.

    I actually don't mind if the steel production is time consuming, but i find the process of this production unrealistic and boring.

    But you are right with one thing, of course you can have 4 Herbalists in a guild of 40 people, but it takes some time to get there... you start with guild cap of 5 people, then 10, then 20 and finally 40 with a monument level you can't reach as you cannot produce vostaskus steel yet.
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  • Accepted Answer

    Saturday, December 12 2015, 05:58 PM - #Permalink
    0
    -1
    Team effort game, keeps were not meant to be easy to gain. No more easy mode buttons for whiners. Sorry!
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    Sunday, December 13 2015, 06:56 AM - #Permalink
    0
    He's not saying anything about time or difficulty, just that it's not as real as it could be. It's unrealistic to get metal from herbs, and the process is boring and tedious which doesn't have to be as boring and tedious. I like the idea of minigames for fishing, hunting, tracking, chopping wood, building fires etc. That way when people complain about the grind well it's acceptable. It should be time consuming and take effort and you shouldn't be able to make keeps easily or quickly, but it shouldn't be a boring grind to get it done. When something takes a long time you'll still have a sense of accomplishment even if it isn't boring and frustrating to accomplish.
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    Sunday, December 13 2015, 03:42 PM - #Permalink
    0
    Seriously, how lazy could you be? Flux is very, very easy to get, even when playing alone.
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    Thursday, January 28 2016, 09:02 AM - #Permalink
    0
    I think the answer would be to harvest and plant the herbs you want, your own little herb garden.
    I have a maximum of 4 hours a day to play and to search for flux alone FOR DAYS AT END is not the preferred way to spend my very valuable gaming time. All other productions then come to a halt just because of the laborious task of finding flux. Please make it so we can plant herbs or make it a bit easier to find please.
    Perhaps to swap the Alchemy and Healing skills for the single players. As I play alone and cannot level the Healing skill at all, without outside help, to reach the Alchemy skill.
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    Thursday, January 28 2016, 12:09 PM - #Permalink
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    Seriously, the flux is not a problem at all. The people who are disagree with that are wrong. LIF is not made for the lonely guy !! With the MMO it will be worst for you. Even for the 4-5 people team ...

    If you're playing alone on YO, trade your plants ! If you dont you have only 10% usefulls plants. If you trade correctly you can optimize them at 90% !! I play on a team, we were (when we needed flux) around 3 or 4 to harvest plants. We took an 1 or 2. We traded all our useless plants and we had so many flux ! Never thought i'll had my claim 4 so fast. We had maybe 5 plants totally useless for all the people who collect plants on our server.

    -1
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    Monday, December 04 2017, 08:17 PM - #Permalink
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    Steel was difficult to manufacture before the 1700s. Back during medieval times they formed wootz by combining iron, charcoal, and a silicate in a sealed clay pot and cooking it in a 2000 degree furnace for 8 or more hours. The carbon in the charcoal would bind with the iron to form steel and the silicate would turn to glass and draw out impurities during the process. Personally, I hate the idea that flux is needed to produce steel. Flux is used to prevent scale buildup on hot steel when forge-welding, not for actually making steel. Since most steel weapons were made using the method of repeated drawing out and folding, then forging, perhaps flux would be better used as an ingredient in making steel weapons and tools, and not in the making of steel itself. You should have to make a crucible out of clay, then put say, 20 iron lumps in, 5 pieces of charcoal, and one piece of glass, then stick that in the bloomery and cook it at 2000 degrees for quite some time in order to get a single steel ingot...which would then have to be further reduced into bars. This would make the process of steel production more realistic.
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