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This needs to be greatly nerfed. Who in their right mind would only equip a weapon and go out for battle without any protection? There is no realism in this. They do this intentionally for that extra movement speed and even when struck, they don't die or get knocked out instantly, which is even more unrealistic.
Weapons are easy to make. Have players come with armors which are harder and more expensive to make. I'll be more than happy to fight off people who I can gain from. Right now the people who play correctly are the ones who are at a disadvantage. This insane mobility they have for being unarmored is ridiculous. When I kill them, I get little to nothing and if they kill me after the constant attacks since hording weapons is absurdly easy, they get my full gear. How is this even fair?
There is many ways to nerf this behavior. Some examples...
Accidental Injuries - Attacking another player with a weapon when unarmored gives you a 15% of accidentally injuring yourself. This is both for ranged and melee combat. The place where you're unarmored will receive the injury, so make sure you're fully geared. The more gear you have on yourself, the less chance you will accidentally injury yourself. Having full set of gear, will prevent you completely from injuring yourself.
Increased Unarmored Damage - You should take significantly more damage when hit in a place that is unarmored, way more than currently. Took me about 2-3 hits with a maul on an unarmored player which is far from realistic. Even if he was struck with my handle of the maul, still should knock him out pretty easily without any protection. It was high quality and I had high skill, so something is wrong here.
Terrified Debuff - When striking an armored player when unarmored, you should get a debuff called terrified. For 30 seconds your accuracy should drop significantly and you should have a chance of stumbling and falling down. You should have at least 3 types of armor pieces equipped to prevent this debuff.
You guys should encourage people with no gear to flee, it's as simple as that. Right now we have raiders running around naked with a single weapons and VERY little disadvantage. Not realistic and not fun.
Weapons are easy to make. Have players come with armors which are harder and more expensive to make. I'll be more than happy to fight off people who I can gain from. Right now the people who play correctly are the ones who are at a disadvantage. This insane mobility they have for being unarmored is ridiculous. When I kill them, I get little to nothing and if they kill me after the constant attacks since hording weapons is absurdly easy, they get my full gear. How is this even fair?
There is many ways to nerf this behavior. Some examples...
Accidental Injuries - Attacking another player with a weapon when unarmored gives you a 15% of accidentally injuring yourself. This is both for ranged and melee combat. The place where you're unarmored will receive the injury, so make sure you're fully geared. The more gear you have on yourself, the less chance you will accidentally injury yourself. Having full set of gear, will prevent you completely from injuring yourself.
Increased Unarmored Damage - You should take significantly more damage when hit in a place that is unarmored, way more than currently. Took me about 2-3 hits with a maul on an unarmored player which is far from realistic. Even if he was struck with my handle of the maul, still should knock him out pretty easily without any protection. It was high quality and I had high skill, so something is wrong here.
Terrified Debuff - When striking an armored player when unarmored, you should get a debuff called terrified. For 30 seconds your accuracy should drop significantly and you should have a chance of stumbling and falling down. You should have at least 3 types of armor pieces equipped to prevent this debuff.
You guys should encourage people with no gear to flee, it's as simple as that. Right now we have raiders running around naked with a single weapons and VERY little disadvantage. Not realistic and not fun.
Comments (12)
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Accepted Answer
2I agree "naked PvPers" needs to be nerfed to some extent. As it stands no fully armoured player can hope to go toe to toe with an experienced naked and kill one. I get that it should be an option to fight like that. Armour slows people down and tires them quicker. And there were warriors in history that fought literally naked against armoured enemies. However, it is really unbalanced in LiF.
I agree with the more damage to unarmoured players idea or just give armoured players HEAPS more damage negation. There has to be some benefit to wearing heavy armour in single combat.
Also another thing to look at in PvP in the same tone is the fact bodkin arrows seem to do MORE damage to armoured players than unarmoured. Fair enough bodkin arrows should negate some armour protection but should do the same damage, if not more, to unarmoured players.
All this being said I think a well trained team of armoured and combined troop types with the right tactics and leadership would come out on top vs an unarmoured team. But have yet to see such a battle. -
Accepted Answer
3It gets even worse when you add bows into the mix. At least with naked melee fighters, you have a chance that they will lag or slip up enough to allow you to potentially get a solid hit in on them. But with the easy unequip and run tactic, competent bowmen can easily take on multiple targets with little to no threat to them, even from horsemen. Hit and run is OP, and there is really no reason to use any sort of formation against archers or naked melees because they will tear it apart with no issue.
And yes, there are more issues than just these with PvP, too many to get into on one thread. I think a large portion of the issue is that people do not want to believe that their specific play style is OP, and do not say anything. Its really unfortunate, considering how complex the melee mechanics really are, and that as the game currently stands, most people have no reason to delve deeper into intricate game mechanics to win a fight. -
Accepted Answer
0I currently have 1200 hours in the game and I've tried all combination of weapon. First of all, when wearing heavy armor, you can't expect to go one on one against a naked and catch up to him. You will most likely die due to your lack of speed. Armored people need to fight in units with ranged support. Use naphta grenades, two handed weapon(Maul, bardiche, broad axe, glaive). These are by far the best. I've done my fair share of naked fighting and I can say that my current setup is now, (60 throw, 30 leather // 60 two S, 60 plate, 60 two axe, 60 two blunt, 60 war cry // 60 militia, 60 padded, 90 spear on a 600 skill cap) Light leather with half plate helmet, Broad axe, Long pike, War cries.
This is, by far, more effective than naked combat. 60 str, 50 agi, 10 int, 10 con, 20 will.
Don't get me wrong, naked combat is really good because it's forgiving, you can miss a swing and run. When you're armoured up, it's all about coordination and timing. -
Accepted Answer
0Give armor far more damage mitigation. Boost overall damage numbers. Boost strength contribution to melee. Make naked people very afraid of being hit. Make people in heavy armor take a lot of hits from anything but very heavy weapons (heavy crossbows/arbalest/two handers.) Shields should be amazing against a bow (at the cost of durability, of course.) In any case, plate is not really weak to lighter piercing weapons, and it needs to be much more resilient to reflect that (even if heavier piercing weapons need a large buff due to that change.)
Second, change armor movement penalties to a hard stamina drain when moving. Make it very low normally, but make it higher when sprinting. Say about 1 point every minute normal, but 1 every 5 seconds sprinting. Make this in place of the movement speed reduction. It accomplishes the goal of making armor take a toll... but achieves the realism that people can indeed actually run in armor. It also compounds with the drain from sprinting and refilling the stamina bar. Thus turning people to a need to rest, and to wanting clothes as well as just armor. Make strength give a slight reduction in how fast the hard stamina drains, along with constitution.
Slow drawing on a bow, it should realistically take at least 6 seconds, and then aiming should take at least a few seconds.
Just ideas for how to make combat a little more realistically balanced! -
Accepted Answer
2Agree with increacing damage and armor resist. I think accidental injuries should happen randomly while doing something in peaceful state but not while in combat stance.
Naked attackers are OP because they are always running and switching to peaceful state when their stamina is low. Possible solution to prevent that running is disable switching from war stance to peaceful mode until you have full soft stamina. And if running person hits you, successful block will knock him down.
Jairone wrote:
Slow drawing on a bow, it should realistically take at least 6 seconds, and then aiming should take at least a few seconds.
This is not realistic. Drawing a bow takes about 1 second or even less, but it drains stamina while drawing and aiming. And overall soft stamina regen should be slower.
Some info about longbow shooting rate -
Accepted Answer
0sleep wrote:
Jairone wrote:
Slow drawing on a bow, it should realistically take at least 6 seconds, and then aiming should take at least a few seconds.
This is not realistic. Drawing a bow takes about 1 second or even less, but it drains stamina while drawing and aiming. And overall soft stamina regen should be slower.
Some info about longbow shooting rate
Per your own reference, and I quote it here: "it took some approximately seven seconds to draw, aim an loose an armour-piercing heavy arrow using a replica war bow" So six seconds with a second or two for aiming to be best is... actually probably not bad. -
Accepted Answer
0Jairone wrote:
Per your own reference, and I quote it here: "it took some approximately seven seconds to draw, aim an loose an armour-piercing heavy arrow using a replica war bow" So six seconds with a second or two for aiming to be best is... actually probably not bad.
"seven seconds between the first and second shots" - this means it's notch + draw + aim time and draw time is the least one. The longer draw time - the more tiring. Watch some videos about bow shooting. It's more like 4 seconds to notch, 1 to draw and 2 to aim. And game should let the player decide how long he will aim. (no restrictions like "more accuracy if taking aim for X seconds")
"Most archers would not shoot arrows at maximum rate, as it would exhaust even the most experienced man." - stamina drain is better solution than very slow draw time. -
Accepted Answer
-1Tighter Balance is needed, The unarmored speed cant really be taken away, and you cant make fullplate much more defensive than it is. Right now what I notice is Naked/Padded + Sledge/Maul is pretty strong, hits hard, and moves fast. But I can hold my own in leather with a poleaxe. As it stands against fullplate, unless I get a near perfect strike, I deal 1 to 3 damage. [This is 1v1 combat mind you so no unit buffs or anything] while verse a naked or padded foe I am doing between 20 to 40 with a clean hit. 5 to 15 with a botched hit. And Ive watched fullarmored guys slam naked fighters to the floor effortlessly by tanking a hit to get close and strike.
There are CLEAR advantages and disadvantages to both. people are never going to be happy. This isn't a situation where a nerfing, or a silver bullet appreach is going to help.Fullplate, strong against slashing, weak to blunt, and secondarily weak to peircing, chain, strong to slashing weak to peircing, ect ect ect, naked should be weak to slashing and peicing and take normal shp damage from blunt but a little more hard hp prolly since there is no protective layer, but armor or not a club/hammer ect to the head arm le chest hurts.
As for archers, depending on the bow, your shots are slow, or very fast, having seen some videos of some crazy real life archery, its not unheard of to see someone jump, catch an arrow midflight nock and fire it at a target before landing. Mind you not fulldraw but accurate, and fast. War archers were feirce, and im not talking the wall of marksmen raining death in an arc from the battlements. I'm talking close in, mid range fist full of pointed sticks to fling at you war archers. @_@ -
Accepted Answer
0sleep wrote:
Jairone wrote:
Per your own reference, and I quote it here: "it took some approximately seven seconds to draw, aim an loose an armour-piercing heavy arrow using a replica war bow" So six seconds with a second or two for aiming to be best is... actually probably not bad.
"seven seconds between the first and second shots" - this means it's notch + draw + aim time and draw time is the least one. The longer draw time - the more tiring. Watch some videos about bow shooting. It's more like 4 seconds to notch, 1 to draw and 2 to aim. And game should let the player decide how long he will aim. (no restrictions like "more accuracy if taking aim for X seconds")
"Most archers would not shoot arrows at maximum rate, as it would exhaust even the most experienced man." - stamina drain is better solution than very slow draw time.
True, but I'm thinking in terms of gameplay mechanics as well. Having it just drain soft stamina will need other fixes. Having it drain hard stamina would just be either ineffective or too painful. I'd rather see an aiming delay (especially since without one people WILL just release asap for maximum firing rates in many cases, as aiming can be done fairly well ahead of time within the game mechanics.)
I agree that firing a bow is different in real life than what I am saying, I'm just trying to find a solid approximation that removes the 10 arrow in 6 seconds spam. -
Accepted Answer
0Jairone wrote:Having it just drain soft stamina will need other fixes. I'd rather see an aiming delay (especially since without one people WILL just release asap for maximum firing rates in many cases, as aiming can be done fairly well ahead of time within the game mechanics.)
Proper soft stamina drain will not let you spam arrows. Other fixes is not such a problem as the whole combat system needs a lot of fixes.
Idea about pre-aiming: during the draw time, camera turns a bit in a random direction. So you have to take aim only after the bowstring is drawn. -
Accepted Answer
