Development News #53 - Guilds are Feudal!

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Arrakis
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Development News #53 - Guilds are Feudal!

Post by Arrakis » 26 May 2017, 17:01

Hey Feudalists!

As many of you already noticed while testing the MMO, our Guild system is more complex than the current YO version. We would like to introduce this system to you all properly.

What is a guild?
A guild is an entity, which contains a list of guild members with their roles, a list of standings against other guilds and heraldry. In other words, a guild is a hierarchical community of players united to achieve game advantages with displays of politics, warfare, trade and symbology to identify themselves to other guilds and the rest of the gameworld.

Guild - land - claim
Lands are a separate entity, which is a part of the system. Lands connect territory and physical entities situated inside it to a landowner, which may be a guild or a person (guild land and personal land).

Lands connect a landowner to a set of customizable rights called “claim rights”. Ultimately, a claim is an entity that defines what every player in the game can do with land entities. Every ability in the game is marked by “claim usage type”, which defines a type of rights this ability belongs to, for example, the “open container” ability is marked by a “use” type of right. Some claim rights may be affected by other game mechanics - “destroy” can be granted to any person and allows that person to damage buildings inside of that land.

Guild lands and personal lands both have claim rights, but in a case of personal land, only the landowner can manage it, whereas guild land can be managed by a leader and a minor leader of a guild that owns land.

Politics
Political standings are a part of a guild’s life; guilds may ally or declare war on each other. War affects claim rights on guild lands; it overrides them during judgment hour (or in future battle sieges), it also allows guild members to kill and loot enemies with no effect on their karma.

A powerful guild can persuade another guild to become a vassal, “vassalage” is a special type of guild relation. A master guild becomes a kingdom and if it is drawn into a war by other guilds all vassals to the master guild automatically receive war standings towards this guild. Also, if this enemy guild is a master guild, all vassal guilds will be included in the war as well.

Guild management
All guild management for the MMO version is moved to the game’s web interface, the main reason to do so is to offer broad access - you can manage your guild from any place, and even when your game server is down, all web interface functionality is duplicated with server commands and client slash commands.

MMO and YO guilds
During the MMO Beta wave testing, we will have two completely different guild systems emerging. The YO and the more complex MMO guild systems - supporting both versions will consume a lot of dev time. Therefore, the complex guild system eventually will come to the YO version, less the web interface, but with the same core functionality. The behavior of these adapted guilds will be similar to the current YO version, but with extended functionality like custom guild roles, claim rights, even political standings will be available through server and slash commands.

rimg


We also want to thank everyone who participated in our recent ‘Emotions Gatherer’ contest! We are reviewing all entries and will contact winner(s) soon.

- The team


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Saar
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Re: Development News #53 - Guilds are Feudal!

Post by Saar » 26 May 2017, 17:03

Traduction disponible sur von culm
Last edited by Saar on 26 May 2017, 18:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Khan-
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Re: Development News #53 - Guilds are Feudal!

Post by Khan- » 26 May 2017, 17:04

Disponible en Français : sur Lifeisfeudal-fr.com



hmmmm thanks for the wiki update ?
Last edited by Khan- on 26 May 2017, 17:28, edited 1 time in total.
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Jade
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Re: Development News #53 - Guilds are Feudal!

Post by Jade » 26 May 2017, 17:24

Are there any plans to allow guilds to create their own custom ranks? Its great to see that you have some feudal titles yet it would be nice for guilds to be able to create more and name them what they wish.

Not just on a small guild level but on a kingdom level as well.
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Paulchatterton
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Re: Development News #53 - Guilds are Feudal!

Post by Paulchatterton » 26 May 2017, 17:28

Is there a penalty for declaring war? What's to stop one guild declaring war on every other guild, just to avoid any alignment penalties for murder?

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Azzerhoden
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Re: Development News #53 - Guilds are Feudal!

Post by Azzerhoden » 26 May 2017, 18:31

Paulchatterton wrote:Is there a penalty for declaring war? What's to stop one guild declaring war on every other guild, just to avoid any alignment penalties for murder?


From an MMO perspective a guild has to have a monument up to declare war, so I imagine that will be added to YO. There had been talk of adding an expense to declaring / maintaining a war standing, but nothing has been finalized (or even stated there would be).

I'd like to see something added to avoid exactly what you are referring to. There should, at a minimum, be some type of extra guild maintenance fee tacked on for declaring/maintaining war standings.
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Re: Development News #53 - Guilds are Feudal!

Post by Paulchatterton » 27 May 2017, 10:28

From an MMO perspective a guild has to have a monument up to declare war, so I imagine that will be added to YO. There had been talk of adding an expense to declaring / maintaining a war standing, but nothing has been finalized (or even stated there would be).

I'd like to see something added to avoid exactly what you are referring to. There should, at a minimum, be some type of extra guild maintenance fee tacked on for declaring/maintaining war standings.[/quote]

Actually, I was thinking more from the MMO perspective. I posted here simply because the post mentioned the war mechanism. I doubt it makes much difference in Your Own.

As the leader of a non-aggressive guild, it is disappointing that the only real defence we have against a bandit guild is the alignment penalty they suffer for attacking us. All they have to do to avoid this, though, is to declare war.


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Re: Development News #53 - Guilds are Feudal!

Post by Scratchit » 27 May 2017, 15:50

sweet, so does this mean there will be a guild chat at release? :)

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Re: Development News #53 - Guilds are Feudal!

Post by Ishamael » 27 May 2017, 16:44

To the people above complaining about how weak they are (no offense meant), this is a war game. Either ally, submit, or find some super remote area to build in.

With that said... I would like to offer my thoughts about what we experienced with the war system in the MMO.

Being part of a guild that has taken over 3 bases, destroyed several monuments, and forced several guilds to move location in the MMO, I can say the war system may need to be reworked more than the already reported changes. Most bases we destroy are too far away to loot and it becomes tiresome to manage multiple claims. What we end up doing is just leveling the place because there is no real incentive to keep it.

The novelty of showing a group of newbies they are not as cool as they thought when they were in an RP LiFYO server actually wears off very fast and it becomes more like a tedious job you have to constantly deal with.

I have heard ideas thrown around where you can conquer claims and a portion of their guild money goes to the victor. Something like this might give more meaning to taking over claims and offer an alternative to just wiping bases off the map.

Hopefully we can come up with some more ideas, but the current system often presents us with a situation where the easiest thing to do in order to control a region is to literally destroy everything in a claim if they refuse to join us or provide support in some way. I am fine with this if this is the intended design, but there could be a system that better feels like we are conquering land and creating an empire without having to wipe all assets.

Alternatively, if people better understood what they were risking when they went to war they may be able to be more open to diplomatic solutions. My experience, however, is that people would rather try their luck and be destroyed than they would accept terms of surrender or tribute. Then they get butt hurt and rage quit over their own inadequate abilities.
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Re: Development News #53 - Guilds are Feudal!

Post by Paulchatterton » 31 May 2017, 18:55

I have a few comments on your post, Ishamael, that may illustrate part of the issue here.

Ishamael wrote:To the people above complaining about how weak they are (no offense meant), this is a war game. Either ally, submit, or find some super remote area to build in.


This is your view of the what the game is. You are far from alone in this view but it is not what everyone wants. The term MMO is usually taken as an abbreviation of MMORPG and there are many people for whom the RPG element is important. However, perhaps the devs have used the term MMO rather than MMORPG deliberately, and they don't intend an RPG aspect. Ultimately, it is for the devs to decide what sort of game it is and produce a game that fits that model. In another post, I have tried asking the devs what sort of game they intend this to be, so that I could judge if it is a game that will allow my playing style, but didn't receive a reply. Why have an alignment system, though, if the concept is to encourage free slaughter?

Having said that, I am not opposed to PvP. I rarely play games without a PvP element because that adds to the realism. I am simply opposed to griefing, i.e. behaviour by one group of players that prevents another group of players from enjoying the game, ultimately driving them out. Persistent slaughter of much weaker players for little or no gain would fall into this category.

Ishamael wrote:With that said... I would like to offer my thoughts about what we experienced with the war system in the MMO.

Being part of a guild that has taken over 3 bases, destroyed several monuments, and forced several guilds to move location in the MMO, I can say the war system may need to be reworked more than the already reported changes. Most bases we destroy are too far away to loot and it becomes tiresome to manage multiple claims. What we end up doing is just leveling the place because there is no real incentive to keep it.


Perhaps this is intentional. The guild and claims system implies to me that it is better to grow your guild within a geographical area, defending territory that you can defend, and gradually expanding outwards, through conquest or diplomacy, to a size appropriate to your population. Attacking other settlements and burning them to the ground, without holding the ground, is banditry not war. It's a fair theme for a guild, but it there should be an alignment cost for banditry.


Ishamael wrote:The novelty of showing a group of newbies they are not as cool as they thought when they were in an RP LiFYO server actually wears off very fast and it becomes more like a tedious job you have to constantly deal with.


Why would you feel the need to do this? It does you no good, and it does the game no good. All it does is drive players away.

Ishamael wrote:I have heard ideas thrown around where you can conquer claims and a portion of their guild money goes to the victor. Something like this might give more meaning to taking over claims and offer an alternative to just wiping bases off the map.


As I understand it, money will be a crafted item like any other. The owner has to carry it or store it somewhere. If you kill someone, you can loot all their money from their body. If you destroy a guild's monument, their storage becomes vulnerable and you can loot their money. The only thing I disagree with in your suggestion is that it should only be a portion of their money; it should be all of it that you can get your hands on. It's my expectation that the only thing that needs to happen for your suggestion to become reality is for money to be implemented.

Hopefully we can come up with some more ideas, but the current system often presents us with a situation where the easiest thing to do in order to control a region is to literally destroy everything in a claim if they refuse to join us or provide support in some way. I am fine with this if this is the intended design, but there could be a system that better feels like we are conquering land and creating an empire without having to wipe all assets.

Ishamael wrote:Alternatively, if people better understood what they were risking when they went to war they may be able to be more open to diplomatic solutions. My experience, however, is that people would rather try their luck and be destroyed than they would accept terms of surrender or tribute. Then they get butt hurt and rage quit over their own inadequate abilities.


I think you are right when considering one large aggressive guild declaring war on another large aggressive guild. If, however, you are a large aggressive guild declaring war on a small peaceful guild, you are not really taking any risk.

Remember that everyone is here to have fun, and not everyone's idea of fun is the same as yours. I think that with the right war and alignments systems, there's room for both.

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