Development News #57 - ‘Trading Posts, Crowns and Taxes’

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Arrakis
 
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Development News #57 - ‘Trading Posts, Crowns and Taxes’

Post by Arrakis » 23 Jun 2017, 17:36

rimg


Hey Feudalists!

Today we would like to share with you a few details about one of the key features of our upcoming MMO. We are going to implement it at the start of the next CBT wave: Trading Posts.

A trading post can be built by any player at any place on the map, however, it is strongly advised to construct it on a personal or guild claim area to save it from decay. Any player who has access to the trading post will be able to store a few items in their personal stall at the post (the slot is shared between all the characters of any single account in any single world).

rimg


However, the main function of a trading post is the ability to put personal items from a player's stall for sale at this trading post as well as buying items from other players.

rimg


Important feature: to buy items you will have to bring the money to this particular trading post by yourself as well as take care of the delivery of your purchases from the post to your home (yes yes, we know, we are working hard to provide you with horse pulled carts as soon as possible).

Also, there is an option to sell your valuable items to the crown at trading posts to get Crown's golden coins for them. Later these golden coins will be the only way of supporting all types of monuments in the game.

There are also plans to implement the taxation system which will allow players and guilds to receive:
    — taxes from private claims on the territory of a guild claim
    — a fee for the storage of items in trading posts
    — an additional commission for trading post listings

We would like to get to know you all a little better, so it would be awesome and greatly appreciated if you wouldn’t mind spending a few minutes of your time to complete our survey here: https://goo.gl/oqoK66
It is completely anonymous and not associated with the storage of your personal data in any way, nor are we going to sell the date to any third party. It is needed only for us to get a better understanding of the community.


Our 'Emotions gatherer' contest is being prolonged!
Send the video and audio recording of you playing LiF to contest@lifeisfeudal.com.

You can find more details here

We would like to specifically highlight that we do not expect any fancy Hollywood-style movies from you, a typical LiF experience and your emotions are all that matter for this contest!

— The team


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Khan-
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Re: Development News #57 - ‘Trading Posts, Crowns and Taxes’

Post by Khan- » 23 Jun 2017, 17:38

Disponible en Français : sur Lifeisfeudal-fr.com


great !
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Re: Development News #57 - ‘Trading Posts, Crowns and Taxes’

Post by Sharana » 23 Jun 2017, 18:00

Nice devblog, but still - is the CBT # delayed for July :)

About the trading ... I wonder how much soil and water will the players sell to the system for coins :crazy:
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Re: Development News #57 - ‘Trading Posts, Crowns and Taxes’

Post by Xzg0 » 23 Jun 2017, 19:19

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Re: Development News #57 - ‘Trading Posts, Crowns and Taxes’

Post by Baal » 23 Jun 2017, 19:24

Cool stuff.
Have a question : about the first image of the man carrying a log, is it a teaser of a new animation for log carrying you are going to implement ? it would be great.

and loving the new potion with colored label :beer:


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Re: Development News #57 - ‘Trading Posts, Crowns and Taxes’

Post by BlackHarlock » 23 Jun 2017, 20:31

As I can see from the image........is impossible to eliminate the grass inside the constructions ?????? very very ugly :evil: :evil: :evil:

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Re: Development News #57 - ‘Trading Posts, Crowns and Taxes’

Post by Some1Else » 23 Jun 2017, 20:58

Arrakis wrote:Later these golden coins will be the only way of supporting all types of monuments in the game.


What exactly does that mean? Does it mean, that as soon as i build a monument, i am dependent on having a trading post available to keep my monument fed? If the trading post is a architecture building as it is right now, i could imagine there will be a gap between setting up my monument and the trading post becoming available for building, meaning i won't be able to support it for the first days/weeks of playing, resulting in my claim collapsing?

Sincere regards,
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Re: Development News #57 - ‘Trading Posts, Crowns and Taxes’

Post by Kildrith » 23 Jun 2017, 21:03

Some1Else wrote:
Arrakis wrote:Later these golden coins will be the only way of supporting all types of monuments in the game.


What exactly does that mean? Does it mean, that as soon as i build a monument, i am dependent on having a trading post available to keep my monument fed? If the trading post is a architecture building as it is right now, i could imagine there will be a gap between setting up my monument and the trading post becoming available for building, meaning i won't be able to support it for the first days/weeks of playing, resulting in my claim collapsing?

Sincere regards,
Some1Else


it is my understanding that these are the same gold coins that will be minted by smithies. "Not premium currency"


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Re: Development News #57 - ‘Trading Posts, Crowns and Taxes’

Post by Sharana » 23 Jun 2017, 21:09

Some1Else wrote:
Arrakis wrote:Later these golden coins will be the only way of supporting all types of monuments in the game.


What exactly does that mean? Does it mean, that as soon as i build a monument, i am dependent on having a trading post available to keep my monument fed? If the trading post is a architecture building as it is right now, i could imagine there will be a gap between setting up my monument and the trading post becoming available for building, meaning i won't be able to support it for the first days/weeks of playing, resulting in my claim collapsing?

Sincere regards,
Some1Else


No one said there won't be few trading posts in the capital :)

Kildrith wrote:it is my understanding that these are the same gold coins that will be minted by smithies. "Not premium currency"

Kingdom minted coins won't be soon. And who said it will be smiths or even players "minting" them?
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Re: Development News #57 - ‘Trading Posts, Crowns and Taxes’

Post by Elgar » 23 Jun 2017, 21:14

BlackHarlock wrote:As I can see from the image........is impossible to eliminate the grass inside the constructions ?????? very very ugly :evil: :evil: :evil:


Update 1.1.5.7 in October 2016 removed grass under buildings, but this was reverted back a month later. This is the answer I got from devs when I sent them a report :

It's very sad, but we have to revert back these changes as they cause a client crash for some user,
It was a very anticipating fix for me as well and i will try to return it back
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Re: Development News #57 - ‘Trading Posts, Crowns and Taxes’

Post by Kildrith » 23 Jun 2017, 21:30

Sharana wrote:

Kildrith wrote:it is my understanding that these are the same gold coins that will be minted by smithies. "Not premium currency"

Kingdom minted coins won't be soon. And who said it will be smiths or even players "minting" them?


To be fair the assumption that it is smiths is based upon the process of how minting works, and is more closely related to the smithing line compared to any other "current skill line"

However it is not a stretch to assume this will be fueled by kingdom minted coins

Q : Curency in the MMO?
A : "Saxxon 30 Mar 2016 @ 2:45pm
Piskunov described how guilds at a certain level in Life is Feudal can actually mint their own coins out of gold and silver. However, guilds will have to maintain the value of their coin with goods, and others can try to devalue the coin. Guilds can require that purchases at their trading post be made in their own coin, forcing players to trade their own goods to obtain these coins. Think stock market mechanics in an MMO. Piskunov expressed that he really enjoyed creating this economic system (he has Ph.D. in economics).


Source: http://massivelyop.com/2016/01/08/life- ... beta-test/ "

I know its an old quote, but there is some other info I honestly don't feel like hunting down that supports my assumption. "not the smithy part just the kingdom minted coins, being used by the trading post and the monument".


I did re read the post and it does look like that kingdom minted coins will not be used at least for the original use of the trading post, so they most likely will allow you to force players to buy with there coins instead of the crowns (When the mechanic is done) or drop the idea and just use the "crowns gold coins" instead

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Re: Development News #57 - ‘Trading Posts, Crowns and Taxes’

Post by Azzerhoden » 23 Jun 2017, 23:46

Sharana wrote:

Kildrith wrote:it is my understanding that these are the same gold coins that will be minted by smithies. "Not premium currency"

Kingdom minted coins won't be soon. And who said it will be smiths or even players "minting" them?


I read that as Crowns being the default currency for the game. In an interview somewhere Bobik mentioned that the would be a default currency, and guilds could also make their own. Ergo, Crowns would be the name of the default gold coins.

I OBJECT! I was going to call our currency Crowns! :crazy:

OK, just kidding. I would think that currency would be produced by Jewelers though, given the current skill line. Just a guess though.
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Re: Development News #57 - ‘Trading Posts, Crowns and Taxes’

Post by Deantwo » 24 Jun 2017, 12:11

I am hoping this helps the solo-nomad play-style.

Though some way to rent a home or room at an inn would still be nice.

Maybe some better mechanics for visiting player towns, such as letting the guild define visitor areas where visitors are allowed to be without worrying about trespassing.
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Re: Development News #57 - ‘Trading Posts, Crowns and Taxes’

Post by Degrath » 24 Jun 2017, 20:06

Arrakis wrote:Later these golden coins will be the only way of supporting all types of monuments in the game.


This means if you don't play enough to generate enough gold to pay for your land you can't own land. It means a large percentage of players will be forced to live on other players lands. To see this system in action just log into Wurm Online and see how easy it isn't to pay for your own land. Making it cost only gold to feed monuments will only force out the casual players imo.

It means that players with nothing better to do then to play LiF will own all the best land that they can tax you to live on eventually.

Placing the ability to create a tax system for land owned by large guilds and kingdom means they can own more land because you will be paying for a large portion of it. Again forcing the casual player out imo.

It will also open up the gold for euros or dollars trade that plague so many other MMO's some legal some illegal. It may not start out like this but if the game lasts long enough it will happen.

Limit the items used to feed the monument to higher value crafted / mined / grown items as well as gold, while it wont stop the gold sellers from happening it will still allow for the casual players to try to stay viable in the game.
Has the lore on monuments changed from making a sacrifice to a higher power to a simple land token to pay your rent to? And if we are forging our own kingdoms after leaving newb island for the unclaimed wild who is this that we have to pay rent to? Has this lore changed as well?

Arrakis wrote: There are also plans to implement the taxation system which will allow players and guilds to receive:
— taxes from private claims on the territory of a guild claim


If there is to be a tax system, strict limits should be placed on the land owners ability to change the rate and a cap on the rate that can be charged. Do not make the taxes paid automatically. Make the land owner have to collect the taxes manually and enforce his/her policies. If you are going to make it feudal like to own land, make it so for the tenant as well as the holder. Taxes should not only be gold but Items crafted / mined / grown / raised by the tenant as well. Possibly items have a slightly lesser value than coin where taxes are concerned but full value for sale.

These of course are my opinions for the dev team. I am not asking anyone for a debate or to like or dislike what I am offering to the Dev team. Just my opinions to help stop the further ruination of a game I would like to enjoy playing some day.

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Re: Development News #57 - ‘Trading Posts, Crowns and Taxes’

Post by Forresthunt » 24 Jun 2017, 22:54

I suggest to relax and see all the new chances in action.
I'm sure the guy didn't get his PHD for a good look only. After all he came up with as good game as Life is Feudal is.

If set right, taxes could be a very good thing for small groups or individual players. Its a sand-box, I guess taxes will be set by individual Guilds. Small players (like myself) can either settle somewhere on they own or find a Guild with moderate taxes rate.
Beneficial for both groups. The Guild needs me for taxes and the more I grow the better it is for the Guild. They need me therefor they protect me from bandits and other Guilds. Give me a chance to grow, produce and trade.

On the other hand, others may want to raid/attack such small groups to undermine opposing Guilds economy. Disputes starts, politicians are in full swing arguing, tension rise and in no time we have a big full scale Guild war on our hands that involves all kind of groups. With PvPers leading the charge and PvEers following hoping to tip the battle advantage to their cause.
isn't that how it worked in old times?

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Re: Development News #57 - ‘Trading Posts, Crowns and Taxes’

Post by Azzerhoden » 25 Jun 2017, 00:43

Well said Goodwillhunter. :good:

Besides, this is beta. We need to see this stuff in action now before the OBT.
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Re: Development News #57 - ‘Trading Posts, Crowns and Taxes’

Post by JohnValentine » 25 Jun 2017, 21:16

Trading post for the transfer of goods sound great. The mechanics that force you to travel to the post and actually transport the merchandise, spot on.

As far as the posts also being coin generators.. well, we'll have to see it in action. I share the concerns about opening the doors to currency farmers and the possibility of an infinite coin generator. I also must admit, it's cheeky if your economist turned gold coins into a fiat currency.
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Re: Development News #57 - ‘Trading Posts, Crowns and Taxes’

Post by Un86Rn » 28 Jun 2017, 20:49

Boring straightforward economy: the game forces you to use one kind of generic coins that are stored not in inventory as an inventory entity, but rather in an abstract form. In such an economy you obtain the coins mostly by selling resources: mobs drop both loot that can be sold to vendors and drop basic gold as well.

Exciting original realistic economy: the players craft all sorts of currency and are not limited to circulate an abstract "standard coin", they can produce silver, copper and gold coins from ingredients and it is the goldsmiths and jewelers that dictate the volume of the game's money supply. However, the value of coins must not be driven by the scarcity or availability of gold and silver. There should exist a scheme where, for example, you would have to pay 2000 copper coins to be able to mint some 40 silver coins and so on. People would be motivated to improve their Jewelry skill, especially if there is a proper sink for the resulting coinage.
Alternatively if there will be a sink for pure gold in ingots and bars, it would be a great opportunity to implement awesome banking and have the players emit coins tied to a gold standard.

Honestly, I think even playing a pure barter economy would be preferable to being forced to use generic default coins. You would see gems of all sorts being used as standard units of value.

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