Feeling enlightened now!

Everything you need to know about what’s happening in Life is Feudal.
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Arrakis
 
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Feeling enlightened now!

Post by Arrakis » 30 Nov 2016, 19:20

Life is Feudal: MMO


We have received an overwhelming amount of a feedback and questions since our previous news announcement, and would like to clarify few things for you - our players!

On the 25th of May, we made an announcement about Life is Feudal: MMO beta testing stages. Those plans got stretched by reality (cruel world!) and we later reviewed them with our new publishing partners. But we want to clarify that, generally those stages/waves plan will be executed, just with a few corrections. The new rough plan should look as follows:

Beta Wave #0
This test was completed quite a while ago.

Beta Wave #1
Who is eligible: All our current Life is Feudal:MMO testers + those who had purchased any of supporter packs on our site or has won an access
Start date (aprox.): We plan a couple of testing runs for this wave with the first one starting on the 14th of December 2016. Plans for the next testing runs of Wave#1 will be announced shortly after the end of the first one.
Duration (aprox.): A few months, hopefully we will finish late Q1 2017
Wipe at the end?: Yes
Map resources shuffle?: Yes

Beta Wave #2
Who is eligible: Everyone who has Life is Feudal: Your Own in their Steam library or who purchased supporter packs or who have acquired a ticket for their character in-game
Start date (aprox.): In a few weeks after the end of Beta Wave #1
Duration (aprox.): 0.5 - One year
Wipe at the end?: No
Map resources shuffle?: No

Release!
Who is eligible: Everyone who has Life is Feudal: Your Own in their Steam library or who purchased supporter packs or who have acquired a ticket for their character in-game
Start date (aprox.): A few weeks after the end of Beta Wave #2
Duration (aprox.): Infinite!
Wipe at the end?: No
Map resources shuffle?: No

- The team


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ROG
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Re: Feeling enlightened now!

Post by ROG » 30 Nov 2016, 22:07

2017 ? #2 2018 #3 2019
Last edited by ROG on 30 Nov 2016, 22:10, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Feeling enlightened now!

Post by Khan- » 30 Nov 2016, 22:09

2017 !
100% French speaking alliance of Royaume Franc : http://lifeisfeudal-fr.com/
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ROG
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Re: Feeling enlightened now!

Post by ROG » 30 Nov 2016, 22:22

Khan-Bjornsen wrote:2017 !

не бери в голову ))) просто у меня кнопка аннигиляции на LIF стоит на 31.12.2016)))
есть такое слово у русских терпение и оно походу лопнуло)))
Last edited by ROG on 30 Nov 2016, 22:39, edited 1 time in total.


Popers
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Re: Feeling enlightened now!

Post by Popers » 30 Nov 2016, 22:39

No wipe after wave#2? I don't think it's a good idea..


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Re: Feeling enlightened now!

Post by Sharana » 30 Nov 2016, 22:46

Popers wrote:No wipe after wave#2? I don't think it's a good idea..


That was to be expected. Would be too big popularity hit if there is wipe after 1 year, esp if everyone can take part in wave 2 which can be considered soft release. Everyone has access to it like it was released, it's not fully finished, so they keep the open beta as shield for bug and exploit reports like 1 year. That's popular nowdays.

Other then that why would it be bad idea?
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Re: Feeling enlightened now!

Post by Azzerhoden » 30 Nov 2016, 23:48

Sharana wrote:
Popers wrote:Other then that why would it be bad idea?


Because all the planning I had roughly scheduled for now has to be accelerated.


LOL - Who am I kidding. I've been planning for 2 years! :D
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Re: Feeling enlightened now!

Post by Cian » 01 Dec 2016, 00:18

I don't post much. But I must register my disappointment with this decision.

Not shuffling resources and wiping after Wave 2 is a mistake. While it may seem like a purely sensible business decision, it says two things to me.

1. You don't expect any new customers following the competion of wave 2.

or

2. You don't care if you get new customers after the completion of Wave 2.

This is only my opinion. Please understand that a lack of desire to wipe after wave 2 will almost guarantee that new players will find no interest in the game.

Please consider these points:

* New players will get scared away because of 1yr + experience and advancement of beta players.

* New players will assume the best spots for building are taken and will wait for the "next" big sandbox game that they can get into on release and compete in.

* A population of Alpha/Beta players will burn out and perhaps not play nor dedicate any more funds to LIF MMO or have moved on to other games in the mean time.

All these things which are admittedly unpredictable may affect the total game population and thus the game experience for those of us that stuck around.

Please consider a fresh start after wave 2 in order to maximize interest in the game and it's player population. Nobody wants used socks on release date. They want fresh socks :D
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Re: Feeling enlightened now!

Post by Popers » 01 Dec 2016, 00:53

Sharana wrote:Other then that why would it be bad idea?


I doubt wave#2 will be bugless, so i'm worrying that some guilds may get advantage by exploiting bugs or unstable/not yet balanced mechanics of the game. And this fact may couse some people to get tired with the game. This players could come back after wipe and main release, but otherwise may not come back..
On the other hand people joining during official release may come into the world of many abandoned or semi active settlements, and couple dominating guilds located in some parts of the map, probably raiding each other and who they can due to not yet stable economy and lack of players.
So server might be separated into high level guilds who has everything, and many primitive eq newbs who don't have anything, and can't even start economy due to being constantly raided by bored high level pvpers, and lack of "middle class". So it may apear to newcomers as a ugly unpleasant and boring world

I guess everything depends on how will server look at the end of wave#2 but i wouldn't be so optimistic.


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Re: Feeling enlightened now!

Post by Sharana » 01 Dec 2016, 01:19

Why do you think that the entire future population will join on the release date in one sunny day of 2018? In MMOs people come and go - that's endless process. If there is no advertisement every game will die after some time, because old players just get bored and find newer game. Using the same argument are we going to have wipe every 6 months or every year, so that it's more pleasurable for new players?

The truth is that players don't like wipes and won't have fun knowing everything they do and pay for in the next year will be reseted on random day during 2018, because they call it a release.
If it was few weeks to a month or two fine, but open beta will last year with everyone knowing about it now playing at that point.
That's very easy way to kill good part of the actually active community who will say f*** it, game X just came out - I will better start there, it's something new and I don't want to grind 1 year in LiF just to come back to the point where I was.
This is serious gamble in a hope to bring more new players that will substitute the old core - and such gamble is not popular those days. All MMOs I played the last 3 years have gone this patch - soft release with the wipe starting "open beta", they start collecting money and just call "release" some time later, one of those is still in open beta after more then a year and reset will absolutely kill it (not that they are planning one, that was the reason so many players actually started playing during the open beta and payed for ingame stuff).

Year or two after the start (be it open beta or release) the population is not the same, either are the groups, but most big guilds actually are almost always small core of old players with mass "new" players that either become "old" after another year or just leave the group/the game. That happens always and that's normal. So what's the reason to assume that all new players will just form new groups and start from scratch instead of joining one of the already existing ones that are always recruiting to compensate the loss of players leaving or stopping playing. LiF is very hardcore, political and guilds orientated game - if you are not part of big guild or alliance you are in for a very hard time be it day 1 or 1001. That's what "vassals" and "training guilds" are for in such games - to start under protection, to be explained how to do stuff time effectively (+tricks from veterans) and get starting gear. In exchange you are part of the guild that recruited you, fight for them and later when you understand the game you either leave them if they are not really to your taste or become loyal member. No one said every new player / few players will start by building monument, tiny shacks and everything from scratch without even getting under the protection of someone bigger.

EDIT: If there are exploits - that's what GMs and bans are for. Not to mention that if the game gets popular there might be new servers like NA, EU-2, Asia etc - consider them fresh starts.
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Re: Feeling enlightened now!

Post by Uther » 01 Dec 2016, 06:31

I also think it is a bad idea to not wipe after wave #2. I also think it's a bad idea to have it last half a year to a year. I mean come on, where have the days gone when companies developed a game and released it in a stable state instead of hiding behind an early-access safety net "just in case"? Have some respect for your long time fans and supporters.

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Re: Feeling enlightened now!

Post by Jamaicus » 01 Dec 2016, 13:38

These guys have worked on, what I think, is the best MMO since Ultima Online! (If any of you noobs even know the game) and they deserve to be compensated accordingly. If youre a true believer then price shouldnt matter. How badly would you like to play? Besides its 50$ - 33%. You do the math. Then another 10 % if youre a steam user. Ive played this game since 2014 over 1000 hours and you dont see me complaining? Im sure there are many others like me. So quit your complaining,get a job and buy the game!!!

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Re: Feeling enlightened now!

Post by Dragodor » 01 Dec 2016, 13:45

Don't cry around. :evil:

Support the game! :Yahoo!:
Life IS feudal! ;)

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Re: Feeling enlightened now!

Post by MasterPetrovich » 01 Dec 2016, 14:28

Жадные мошенники! сделали акцент на ММО, а на основную игру забили вообше, под предлогом ММО, и теперь еще платить предлагают снова) бессовестные лгуны, я вижу вас насквозь! ждите дураков кто вам еще заплатит)) я так и знал, не зря снёс эту игру давно, подожду еще пару лет)) :crazy: :evil:

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Re: Feeling enlightened now!

Post by Diablo1903 » 01 Dec 2016, 14:30

Sharana wrote:Why do you think that the entire future population will join on the release date in one sunny day of 2018? In MMOs people come and go - that's endless process.


Every game has an influx in players on release, as certain players avoid closed betas for a plethora of reason, which I can exemplify later in this post. Not to mention its when the game will be available to the masses in a free to play model, whereas wave 2 will be people who payed for YO. There are literal thousands of people who wont pay for a game, but would happily play for free

Sharana wrote:The truth is that players don't like wipes and won't have fun knowing everything they do and pay for in the next year will be reseted on random day during 2018, because they call it a release.


This is an example of somebody who SHOULDNT be participating in a closed or public beta. They usually come with the knowledge that their progress is reset, most games reset after even a Public beta.
For example Blizzard reset both Overwatch and Hearhstone on release. By not resetting after wave two, they are trying to appeal to both the people who enjoy betas, and those that dont. They want to have their cake and eat it to.

Sharana wrote:If it was few weeks to a month or two fine, but open beta will last year with everyone knowing about it now playing at that point.
That's very easy way to kill good part of the actually active community who will say f*** it, game X just came out - I will better start there, it's something new and I don't want to grind 1 year in LiF just to come back to the point where I was.
~~
Year or two after the start (be it open beta or release) the population is not the same, either are the groups, but most big guilds actually are almost always small core of old players with mass "new" players that either become "old" after another year or just leave the group/the game. That happens always and that's normal.
~~
So what's the reason to assume that all new players will just form new groups and start from scratch instead of joining one of the already existing ones that are always recruiting to compensate the loss of players leaving or stopping playing.


These all dont seem like reason to not wipe, they seem like reason to not have a year long beta. Like you say yourself, if there is no wipe, all the new players from release will just get poached by the large guilds that have been around for up to a year at that point, and incentivizes new players to seek those guilds out, as it provides a path to much faster progression, which in my opinion hinders their long term enjoyment of the game.

If there was a wipe. people could form groups, sure. But without a wipe, a new player is going to have to decide to start building stick stuff or walk over to one of the already established Castles in the distance, join up, and suddenly they have complete access to stuff provided by people just looking for bodies, without any of the work or knowledge to acquire or even use it.


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Re: Feeling enlightened now!

Post by Sharana » 01 Dec 2016, 15:36

Diablo1903 wrote:Not to mention its when the game will be available to the masses in a free to play model, whereas wave 2 will be people who payed for YO. There are literal thousands of people who wont pay for a game, but would happily play for free.


LiF MMO will never be F2P game, you look at it from wrong angle in such case.

1Y beta is needed for simple reason - to finish the features list that is intended for release. The game in wave 2 will be playable, but won't have the economical stuff like stock market, ships and so on, but it will be playable for the majority of the current population. The wait was so long that if they don't let everyone to play already (in like 6 months) and hold the game for another 18 to fully finish it exactly 2 things will happen - they will run out of money and the current population will be tired of waiting and playing other games already.

About the new players - unless you are a group of 10 you won't even be able to build yourself a simple farming village - be it day 1 or 1001, LiF MMO is not friendly towards small groups. If bigger communities from other MMOs join they can simply make alliance with someone big to protect them while they build a month or two - that's how it works.

Diablo1903 wrote:This is an example of somebody who SHOULDNT be participating in a closed or public beta.

Very easy stating things on the internet, isn't it?
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Re: Feeling enlightened now!

Post by Arrakis » 01 Dec 2016, 16:34

About lack of wipe at the end of Wave #2 - Remember that basically, everyone will be able to join that last beta stage. After the final release, it will still be mostly the same players and obviously the same rules. Not much will change at this point so we don't see a reason to wipe all the progress of hundreds - if not thousands - of players after long months of playing. Even if we did wipe it all, a player that would join the game after a month or two after the final release would be in an identical situation as a player who will join after wave #2 is over.

One more thing you should think about. During wave #2 players will establish a proper economy and politics, so people that will join upon the final release won't be joining into a chaotic, empty world without the slightest idea what to do, but the world where existing settlements will be waiting for a fresh blood, with smaller and bigger communities ready to help the newcomers and give them purpose.


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Re: Feeling enlightened now!

Post by Namus » 01 Dec 2016, 19:08

Arrakis09 wrote:About lack of wipe at the end of Wave #2 - Remember that basically, everyone will be able to join that last beta stage. After the final release, it will still be mostly the same players and obviously the same rules. Not much will change at this point so we don't see a reason to wipe all the progress of hundreds - if not thousands - of players after long months of playing. Even if we did wipe it all, a player that would join the game after a month or two after the final release would be in an identical situation as a player who will join after wave #2 is over.

One more thing you should think about. During wave #2 players will establish a proper economy and politics, so people that will join upon the final release won't be joining into a chaotic, empty world without the slightest idea what to do, but the world where existing settlements will be waiting for a fresh blood, with smaller and bigger communities ready to help the newcomers and give them purpose.

That's good to hear i was actually waiting on 100% confirmation on no wipe after wave 2 before buying contribution pack.
I have around 5 MMOs i kickstarted / bought founder pack and for the past 3 years not a single one came out so far and i am tired of waiting. If there was wipe after wave 2 i would most likely not buy contribution pack...

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Re: Feeling enlightened now!

Post by Styxwash » 01 Dec 2016, 22:06

I agree that it's essential to make sure there's no game breaking exploits used during Wave 2, which might empower specific guilds to dominate economically.

No wipe on actual release and a sudden fix of any such huge economy boosting bugs would ruin the world for newcomers, after such a bugfix occured.

The crafting system is getting some long awaited overhauls.
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Re: Feeling enlightened now!

Post by Ubaciosamse » 01 Dec 2016, 22:20

You have to concider that the majority of the playerbase are LIF YO owners newcomers are not, thus wiping after a whole year of playing will kill the game if you think about it, unless the game gets overwhelmed in some sense and then we agree to a wipe.
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Re: Feeling enlightened now!

Post by Namus » 01 Dec 2016, 23:07

Ubaciosamse wrote:You have to concider that the majority of the playerbase are LIF YO owners newcomers are not, thus wiping after a whole year of playing will kill the game if you think about it, unless the game gets overwhelmed in some sense and then we agree to a wipe.

Doesn't have to be many many ppl are waiting for MMO like me and haven't played YO because they are not into small scale online games.
That being said i am pretty sure 95% of players would not want to invest 1 year of hard work into something that would get wiped only small % of hardcore players would do that.

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Re: Feeling enlightened now!

Post by Ubaciosamse » 01 Dec 2016, 23:16

There are a few large groups counting houndreds of players that hare here for 2 years or so, but i might be wrong it's just how i get the picture.
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Re: Feeling enlightened now!

Post by Azzerhoden » 02 Dec 2016, 01:05

Noxronin wrote:only small % of hardcore players would do that.


For the record, the correct term for describing us is "no-lifers", but there is a concerted effort to modify this to the more accurate and literal description of 'pro-LIFers'.
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Re: Feeling enlightened now!

Post by Cian » 02 Dec 2016, 02:15

Meh. I'm not so emotionally invested that I'm going to throw a fit about it.

But I will continue to be concerned. Mass testing hasn't occurred on any sort of large scale. Then BOOM we go straight to Beta 2 and essentially open the flood gates.

Are we saying that Wave 2 is expected to be nearly finished and almost totally bug free? Because without a wipe anyone who abuses or exploits bugs for personal game will not have their illicit abuse wiped at the end of the wave.

Thats the problem with a "soft" release. Developers are hesitant to ban people for finding and exploiting bugs to report but they don't want to wipe people's progress either.
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Re: Feeling enlightened now!

Post by Wookiee420 » 02 Dec 2016, 02:28

Cian wrote:Meh. I'm not so emotionally invested that I'm going to throw a fit about it.

But I will continue to be concerned. Mass testing hasn't occurred on any sort of large scale. Then BOOM we go straight to Beta 2 and essentially open the flood gates.

Are we saying that Wave 2 is expected to be nearly finished and almost totally bug free? Because without a wipe anyone who abuses or exploits bugs for personal game will not have their illicit abuse wiped at the end of the wave.

Thats the problem with a "soft" release. Developers are hesitant to ban people for finding and exploiting bugs to report but they don't want to wipe people's progress either.


You need to relax and reread the internet. Beta Wave #1 hasnt occured yet not till the 14th of December and it runs till about May. In May or June Beta Wave #2 starts. Thats 4-5 months of testing the server.


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Re: Feeling enlightened now!

Post by Cian » 02 Dec 2016, 04:03

Try not to be so condescending my friend. I am well aware of what each stage of the beta is.

Beta 1 is still NOT large scale testing and if you think the majority of issues will be discovered there then I think you are fooling yourself.

Beta 2 will be when the largest amount of players are doing activities and playing the game full blast. This will also be when you find the majority of the remaining major bugs and exploits.

Like it or not any bugs discovered WILL impact the game play of the larger guilds that discover them. My point still stands. You can't punish them for beta testing and you don't plan to wipe their illicit gains so what do you do? Just accept that they gained an advantage over everyone else?
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Re: Feeling enlightened now!

Post by Fizzleton » 02 Dec 2016, 08:37

Arrakis09 wrote:About lack of wipe at the end of Wave #2 - Remember that basically, everyone will be able to join that last beta stage. After the final release, it will still be mostly the same players and obviously the same rules. Not much will change at this point so we don't see a reason to wipe all the progress of hundreds - if not thousands - of players after long months of playing. Even if we did wipe it all, a player that would join the game after a month or two after the final release would be in an identical situation as a player who will join after wave #2 is over.

One more thing you should think about. During wave #2 players will establish a proper economy and politics, so people that will join upon the final release won't be joining into a chaotic, empty world without the slightest idea what to do, but the world where existing settlements will be waiting for a fresh blood, with smaller and bigger communities ready to help the newcomers and give them purpose.



Please remember, that one year is a pretty damn long time. There may occur bugs by accident you don't even imagine right now and there will be hundreds or thousands of players that are affected by those bugs.

There will be two sides as usual - one side will take big advantage of accidental gamebreakers and the other side will be left behind broke af.

Side note: Other MMOs have shown it many times in the past, how minor "balance" adjustments can let you faceroll through the game.

On the other hand, do you really think it's a good idea to "release" a game when the hierarchy is already set in stone?

There will be winners, there will be losers - but after one year, I suppose this will be very clear after such a long time has gone into the land.

How are you selling this to people who want to buy a recently released game? They are basically buying a game that has taken place one year earlier.

If I buy a game on 1st of December, that releases on 1st of December, I imagine players being level one (or similiar based on the type of game) and starting from scrap just like I do.

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Re: Feeling enlightened now!

Post by Namus » 02 Dec 2016, 08:54

The thing is that exploits can come up no matter how much you test it. Look at Archeage it had tons of exploits and hacks despite being LIVE in Korea for a long time and several large scale beta tests...

Even if people discover exploit chances are they wont say anything about it so that they get advantage over others. Sadly we live in a world like that.


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Re: Feeling enlightened now!

Post by Cian » 02 Dec 2016, 23:35

I'll sum it up like this.

EVERY time I try to get people to join a sandbox game I hear the same old mantra.

" I missed the release. Everyone's already claimed all the good spots. It's not worth playing. I'll wait for the next sandbox game to come along so I can play from a fresh start"

If the definition of beta vs release is unclear. If people ASSUME that release is release and beta is beta. A whole crowd of potential players may turn away from the game in the future once they realize they are late to the party.

Do what you will with that. You can't please everyone. I just want to see LIF succeed and attract more than just a small dedicated community. It will never be a multi-million player game, but a few tens of thousands of players would be nice.

Heck Darkfall never passed 100,000 and they did alright for about a year.
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Re: Feeling enlightened now!

Post by Cian » 02 Dec 2016, 23:39

Noxronin wrote:The thing is that exploits can come up no matter how much you test it. Look at Archeage it had tons of exploits and hacks despite being LIVE in Korea for a long time and several large scale beta tests...

Even if people discover exploit chances are they wont say anything about it so that they get advantage over others. Sadly we live in a world like that.


I played early release Archage. It was a goat show. Thousands of players quit in the first week after the initial land grab was botched and ruined by poor planning and script abusing hackers auto claiming land.

Thousands more quit in the following weeks as hackers and large guilds abused the trade system to mass farm gold and hyper-inflate the economy so badly that a casual player hard no chance of buying land from another player.

I was a hard core player and I saw all that. I don't want to see such similar things happen here. I'd like to see Wave 2 be a proper beta and not a soft release.

What I want is irrelevant. The developers do as they please. As a customer I only express my opinion on the subject.
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