Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Linbaba]

I've been actively reading and writing on forums for a while now, and I have to say, there is one thing that kinda pisses me off.

People have the idea that if a game is in beta, that means that customers should tolerate everything, accept anything, and be prepared for any kind of problem, whether it's communication, crashes, bugs, server stability or downtime, anything at all.

"it's beta" DOES NOT MEAN THAT... It is not a blank cheque to the devs from the customers and a note saying "do whatever the hell you like we don't care and it doesn't matter because it's beta"

Everyone has a different limit, for example concerning the long downtime, many think that a few weeks is acceptable. Some in that group may think 2 months would be acceptable. A minority might think that 6 months downtime would be acceptable.

But that, the "acceptability limit", that's defined by the customers.

"it's beta" is independent from the customers. There are industry standards, norms even, usual ways of doing things that are accepted by game companies around the world. Those standards, are never a blank cheque for a closed beta, they are never "do whatever you like we will forgive you because it's beta.

Especially when we are forking out 40 Euros for it.


/end of rant and sorry wall of text to me it's important the people making this game and the fanboys at least know about this if not understand it ..

[Arthur Pendragon]

you are not a "customer", the item you bought was the MMO once it releases!

you are a tester, you were invited to TEST the game in its current state and provide input and report bugs that you find!

you did NOT pay for beta, it was a free extra for either owning a package or being selected.

you have no "rights" to demand/cry/piss&moan about how long they require to sort through the data, repair bugs or add new features during this stage!

plus it is christmas for them, who are you to tell them when they can or cannot take some time off.

[Ivanbalbuena82]

You say free time, I page for the mmo, page for the game and page apart for the mmo and does not put that when paying the pack the mmo is free, it says that if you want to play the early access for the mmo you have to buy one of the Pack, Two years of waiting for the mmo, many vacations and breaks have been taken already I think. I am already very anxious that it is finished doing the mmo already. But with the money they have raised I think it's time to expand the team of programmers and finish it already at once the game. That do not sell the motorcycle that are lining at the expense of all of us and at this stage the game does not finish until 2019. but before they finish they take out a dlc to get you more money and take out pack to get the money and never finish The game but if you finish you out of pocket

[Beretta7]

you are not a "customer", the item you bought was the MMO once it releases!

you are a tester, you were invited to TEST the game in its current state and provide input and report bugs that you find!

you did NOT pay for beta, it was a free extra for either owning a package or being selected.

you have no "rights" to demand/cry/piss&moan about how long they require to sort through the data, repair bugs or add new features during this stage!

plus it is christmas for them, who are you to tell them when they can or cannot take some time off.

You have either been mentally absent for the last 5 years or are very naive. Paid early release and beta's are a business now. Your whole premise hasn't been valid in the world of gaming for years.

[Arthur Pendragon]

You have either been mentally absent for the last 5 years or are very naive. Paid early release and beta's are a business now. Your whole premise hasn't been valid in the world of gaming for years.

Ofcourse I know about early access, that doesnt apply here.

I have been in both Lif:MMO betas (the short one and wave1) and havent had to pay anything.

Wave 2 will bring everyone who owns LiF:YO to the Beta who still dont have to spend anything.

The only people who are spending money are the Supporters who are buying packs for the MMO which grant FREE access to the closed betas.

No-one has PAYED for the Beta directly.

[Libeer]

I liked the first run of the first wave of the mmo. Much stabler then I had anticipated, less stable then I hoped :p

5 weeks downtime or even more is fine as long as the improvements are real(I know we might not always notice some of the stuff that takes a lot of work).

Happy holidays

[Wookiee420]

You say free time, I page for the mmo, page for the game and page apart for the mmo and does not put that when paying the pack the mmo is free, it says that if you want to play the early access for the mmo you have to buy one of the Pack, Two years of waiting for the mmo, many vacations and breaks have been taken already I think. I am already very anxious that it is finished doing the mmo already. But with the money they have raised I think it's time to expand the team of programmers and finish it already at once the game. That do not sell the motorcycle that are lining at the expense of all of us and at this stage the game does not finish until 2019. but before they finish they take out a dlc to get you more money and take out pack to get the money and never finish The game but if you finish you out of pocket

The Elio Motorcar, has been taking money for cars since the end of 2014, they have pushed back the release of the car twice and are possibly going to push it back a third time. So yes they did sell a three-wheeled car (some states call that a motorcycle) in 2014 that most likely wont be on driveways till end of 2018-2019. Your analogy is flawed. Do you want a working product or not? It takes time to do this, if you can do better then do it yourself, otherwise have faith that your extremely tiny investment will pay off.

[Ivanbalbuena82]

I am very happy with the work they are doing, what I am not happy about is the time they are taking, with the money raised and could hire a couple more programmers and 3d modelers to advance the game.

[Karabas]

Prosperity dominated

LOL??? where???? 30 meters radius around ur monument?

[Lewisj7366]

I"m glad wave1 is over.. When you die and lose skill over swimming from 1 server to another server that is B.S. You didn't even need to swim to do it . I lost my horse & got sent back to the starter area too , only going from 1 server to another again . My 1st 5hrs of the game was starring at my screen to "Initialzing bug ". Got on the forums to find a way to into the game ( ctrl +~ ) then had to put my code into the console ( ConnectToGameServer) . Then there was times the server dispatcher kicked me off for no reason . Or the server just crashes and you had to wait till it got up again to try to play the game. So I'm sorry those of you didn't experience my pain . To be honest I rather not even played a game in this shape. I agree on the devs for pulling the plug but they should have done so sooner thro. At the same time I don't agree on them not doing a wipe for wave2.

Beta Tester

[Baldar]

I liked the first run of the first wave of the mmo. Much stabler then I had anticipated, less stable then I hoped :p

5 weeks downtime or even more is fine as long as the improvements are real(I know we might not always notice some of the stuff that takes a lot of work).

Happy holidays.

Prosperity dominated the first run of the first wave of the mmo, we'll be back for more!

ps. I googled 'Russian Submission' in order to add a funny picture portraying the losses of the United Slavic Armies, I'm gonna have nightmares of what I saw on that google page^^

[Singlas]

I googled «Russian Submission» too. After viewed what google saw me, I have advice, don't googling «Russian Submission»

About topic subject: I don't have butthurt about long time breack. I understand developers motives. They want stabilizes game performance and stability. I hope they do that, when second test run starts. 30 days walks fast

[Bodil]

CONTENTS OF THIS POST HAVE BEEN HIDDEN DUE TO
VULGAR LANGUAGE AND PROVOCATIVE ATTITUDE

[Unbeaten]

Massive testing breaks has killed every mmo attempting it before it launches. Crowfall, down to a few hundred returning players, mainly the fanbois. OfKingsandMen (destroyed whole heartedly by developers not being able to deliver.) Now has about 10 fanbois left. Revelations online a triple A mmorpg, took a MONTH break and delivered nothing new in the next CBT2, lost 75% SEVENTY FIVE PERCENT of its player base reported by each and every guild. It's beta do as you please, its a gift to test, blah blah, no its a gift to make it in this industry and doing so is a testament of your player base. Steer clear of choices that wounds, steals or punishes that player base, even a good guild leader understands this concept.

What do you lose by developing a running game with weekly downtime to input new changes, nothing you lose nothing. What do you lose with a month of downtime people playing new games where yours could not deliver the availability they expect out of the CIA triangle, player base you lose more player base than all your bugs could of destroyed. Imagine being that player who bought the game and could not log in EVER, then looks at the forums to see they took it down for a month, or had just bought it. That refund button and argument with the bank starts to feel quite worth it. Name me one successful game with CBT "waves" its a new concept that has failed every MMO trying it. Give people something to play, report more bugs and deal with being behind the curve, it eventually levels out, is this a business or a hobby? Maybe the availability of servers is not taught in Russia for successful products.

I will play a year whatever it takes you to iron it out, test more and break more for you. Many games historically succeeded perfectly fine without major month long down times, this concept is piss poor laziness, and maybe the role you chose in life should be reviewed if its just to much for you.

This is fact, any fanboi who wants to defend "for a more stable games take a year of downtime I dont care" (Then wake up call you do not care about the game at all, we already have under 1000 players on a map meant for X10 that). Many developers kept their servers running while making a more stable game, weekly updates is how you know they are actually utilizing the money you invest properly. What they are doing now is simply showing people a lack of dedication and how unstable they are as developers. As always I will remain, supporting the game, the decisions of the developers is forever short sited, hurtful to the game and make me come up with more bullshit lies to keep players interested. Enjoy the new years that could of been easily done with a skeleton crew, and no updates for the next week while running the game for all these people buying into your product.

Hoping the voice of your players and the repeating post mean something to you. I am not moaning or threatening to leave, just pointing at the backlash, statistics of the path already taken and failed by others and the obvious elephant in the room when it comes to caring about the very lifeblood of your game, your players. (not here to argu, simple give my input as a tester wont reply to fanboi's and the uneducated, with no degree or testing experience.) I would buy a 10000 dollar pack to support this games development, especially if it meant a developer who cared to work, keep servers running and fix issues as the presented themselves, you know the job of a DBA, programmers and support team.

[Solsty]

What is this beta test? Why you shut it up? I would like to buy a test but you close it??? Why? Its not a test, its just a end of a game. And (game over) is not a relatively try to throw a new game alive! I belive, you do not know how to trow a games mmo alive. Start a new wave rapidely...i would like to play...

[Vombat]

Очень приятно купить игру, а потом узнать, что она остановлена до февраля. Вы серьезно?
Разместите хотя-бы нормальную объяву на странице продажи, а не такую, которую начнаешь искать после того как войти в игру не можешь.
Первое впечатление ужасное.

[Leh5346]

Здравствуйте объясните зачем отключили сервера ? ради чего ? помоему патчить игру можно и с включёнными серверами, просто объясните техническую сторону вопроса, или это какойто маркетинговый ход ? купил доступ на збт поиграл две недели и теперь до февраля нипоиграть, это полная лажа

[Bodil]

Massive testing breaks has killed every mmo attempting it before it launches. Crowfall, down to a few hundred returning players, mainly the fanbois. OfKingsandMen (destroyed whole heartedly by developers not being able to deliver.) Now has about 10 fanbois left. Revelations online a triple A mmorpg, took a MONTH break and delivered nothing new in the next CBT2, lost 75% SEVENTY FIVE PERCENT of its player base reported by each and every guild. It's beta do as you please, its a gift to test, blah blah, no its a gift to make it in this industry and doing so is a testament of your player base. Steer clear of choices that wounds, steals or punishes that player base, even a good guild leader understands this concept.

What do you lose by developing a running game with weekly downtime to input new changes, nothing you lose nothing. What do you lose with a month of downtime people playing new games where yours could not deliver the availability they expect out of the CIA triangle, player base you lose more player base than all your bugs could of destroyed. Imagine being that player who bought the game and could not log in EVER, then looks at the forums to see they took it down for a month, or had just bought it. That refund button and argument with the bank starts to feel quite worth it. Name me one successful game with CBT "waves" its a new concept that has failed every MMO trying it. Give people something to play, report more bugs and deal with being behind the curve, it eventually levels out, is this a business or a hobby? Maybe the availability of servers is not taught in Russia for successful products.

I will play a year whatever it takes you to iron it out, test more and break more for you. Many games historically succeeded perfectly fine without major month long down times, this concept is piss poor laziness, and maybe the role you chose in life should be reviewed if its just to much for you.

This is fact, any fanboi who wants to defend "for a more stable games take a year of downtime I dont care" (Then wake up call you do not care about the game at all, we already have under 1000 players on a map meant for X10 that). Many developers kept their servers running while making a more stable game, weekly updates is how you know they are actually utilizing the money you invest properly. What they are doing now is simply showing people a lack of dedication and how unstable they are as developers. As always I will remain, supporting the game, the decisions of the developers is forever short sited, hurtful to the game and make me come up with more bullshit lies to keep players interested. Enjoy the new years that could of been easily done with a skeleton crew, and no updates for the next week while running the game for all these people buying into your product.

Hoping the voice of your players and the repeating post mean something to you. I am not moaning or threatening to leave, just pointing at the backlash, statistics of the path already taken and failed by others and the obvious elephant in the room when it comes to caring about the very lifeblood of your game, your players. (not here to argu, simple give my input as a tester wont reply to fanboi's and the uneducated, with no degree or testing experience.) I would buy a 10000 dollar pack to support this games development, especially if it meant a developer who cared to work, keep servers running and fix issues as the presented themselves, you know the job of a DBA, programmers and support team.

Please put this in every forum section as a sticky. Extremely on point.

[Lustmord]

Dear Devs,
Have you been following any of the big fights that occurred during this test? For anybody that doesn't know it for some reason, the trend right now are horses. Either lancers or horse archers. 90% of people were using one of these in any big or small fights in the MMO. I could live for now with archers using horses, because these horses can be an easy target for friendly archers and lancers, leaving enemy archers alone in field.
What I don't understand is why lancers on a dirt cheap warhorse are so OP right now? Why the warhorse without any armor has 2-3 more hp that any foot soldier? Why a horse without any kind of protection is not dead after a couple of good thrusts to it's throat or a heavy hit to it's legs? Why the lance damage is so high? Basically a lancer can kill anybody in 3 hits. To kill a warhorse you need 10-15 hits from a partisan. Why the warhorse is regenerating health faster that a god damn wolverine? Why the rider can get on horse instantly, without any progress bar or cast time, without any chance to interrupt it?
You can say that we can use traps against horses, but a lancer has to be either blind or stupid to step into them. You can say that we have pikes against them, but the pikes are trash since it immobilizes the user and can be viable only in a 1v1 situation A pikeman is a sweet cherry for any archer, melee or even a 2nd lancer that just charges his back. Shields won't help much here as well, you'll just die slower. From the whole arsenal, there are only polerams that can be somehow useful against horses. Considering the fantastic balance for polearms and weapons in general, we can throw out everything except Partisan and maybe Glaive. I wouldn't have a problem if all things I described would work only for heavy horses, that could have some logic since it's expensive, has metal armor, requires a lot of extra skillpoints and is slow. What I don't agree with, is that a class should be so much better than anything else in the game, has speed, damage, HP advantage over everything else.

[Digdug]

I disputed my transaction with pay-pal. Ill let you guys know how it goes. This is bullshit, The beta wave #1 was advertised as a few months long with a short break on the 28th of December.

[Sharana]

Dear Devs,
Have you been following any of the big fights that occurred during this test? For anybody that doesn't know it for some reason, the trend right now are horses. Either lancers or horse archers. 90% of people were using one of these in any big or small fights in the MMO. I could live for now with archers using horses, because these horses can be an easy target for friendly archers and lancers, leaving enemy archers alone in field.
What I don't understand is why lancers on a dirt cheap warhorse are so OP right now? Why the warhorse without any armor has 2-3 more hp that any foot soldier? Why a horse without any kind of protection is not dead after a couple of good thrusts to it's throat or a heavy hit to it's legs? Why the lance damage is so high? Basically a lancer can kill anybody in 3 hits. To kill a warhorse you need 10-15 hits from a partisan. Why the warhorse is regenerating health faster that a god damn wolverine? Why the rider can get on horse instantly, without any progress bar or cast time, without any chance to interrupt it?
You can say that we can use traps against horses, but a lancer has to be either blind or stupid to step into them. You can say that we have pikes against them, but the pikes are trash since it immobilizes the user and can be viable only in a 1v1 situation A pikeman is a sweet cherry for any archer, melee or even a 2nd lancer that just charges his back. Shields won't help much here as well, you'll just die slower. From the whole arsenal, there are only polerams that can be somehow useful against horses. Considering the fantastic balance for polearms and weapons in general, we can throw out everything except Partisan and maybe Glaive. I wouldn't have a problem if all things I described would work only for heavy horses, that could have some logic since it's expensive, has metal armor, requires a lot of extra skillpoints and is slow. What I don't agree with, is that a class should be so much better than anything else in the game, has speed, damage, HP advantage over everything else.

This is not a topic where combat balance should be discussed. I suggest you to make dedicated topic, it will be popular. I made topic about the balance how infantry will be obsolete in the MMO 6 months ago (during the summer), but only few saw it for real until some guilds actually started using mounted fight tactics to wreck infantry heavy groups that the issues was acknowledged by many.
class-balance-in-field-battles-t19729/

First of all how can you consider horse archery less of a problem then lancers? Where is the logic for archer with 30 points on chivalry (to unlock mounted fight on 0) jump on a horse (or dismount) in a moment, have the same speed and same horse hp as lancer who has 90 points in mounted fighting mastery? Catching skilled horse archers with friendly lancers is possible only in someone's dreams. But that goes for skilled ones who for now are minority.

As for warhorses hp - it's the same reason players don't die from 1-2 hits. The heavy horse is only shock cavalry against infantry, the regular lancers on normal warhorses will wreck them without taking more then 1 hit.
We don't game with 1 hit kills, so we have to scale everything to silly levels - lancer will charge you 3 times instead of once for 1shot kill, his horse will die from few hits x3, when you dismount him he can magically jump back instead of breaking his bones and finishing his battle.

Other then that the mounted fight tactics were clear since the summer when we saw the MMO map - unlike YO it's mainly huge open places with no or only few trees. That's paradise for cavalry which was very rare in YO, you could always hide either in the forest or near the water. You wouldn't suggest that that cavalry shouldn't be the main fighting force when it comes to open field battles?
Partisan is broken enough, mainly it's hitbox range compared to the actual weapons lenght, but it's not for killing horses - long pike does that in 2 hits. Yes the pikeman is standing still, but that's more then normal with such insanely long weapon. It's a team fight - you need combination of all kind of troops to be successful, not only few. The proportion depends on the fighting location, can't be universal. You can't counter lancers with pikemens alone. You can do that with pikemens + own cavalry + archers/horse archers.
Also the horses are trend, because of the mobility it gives you (and the horses production is 1 of the main economical components for war needs) - the entire group moves faster, even the melee guys. They can ride around bumping enemy players and dismounted to fight as melee when the situation asks for it. Going with infantry only on open field battle against cavalry is like bringing a knife to a gunfight which is not a balance problem on it's own. But many of the stuff that make cavalry so much better then non-cavalry is a balance problem.

[Arzi]

So many crying kids... "I want it now dady!!!"

[Fynn_Skarrlund]

So many crying kids... "I want it now dady!!!"

Yeah I payed 30€ for this fucking few days to play. It was not for sure when the server are going down. All think they run till February.

No fu..ing Cent from me for this Game that never will be released, i guess!

[Fearless]

So many crying kids... "I want it now dady!!!"

Yeah I payed 30€ for this fucking few days to play. It was not for sure when the server are going down. All think they run till February.

No fu..ing Cent from me for this Game that never will be released, i guess!

Not a cent from you ? yet you have YO I'm assuming and paid for a founders pack, stop crying seriously and put more effort in to supporting the devs.

[Azzerhoden]

So many crying kids... "I want it now dady!!!"

Yeah I payed 30€ for this fucking few days to play. It was not for sure when the server are going down. All think they run till February.

No fu..ing Cent from me for this Game that never will be released, i guess!

And you will get to play in Feb, and probably March, and frankly, probably in April. Possibly May as well.

I would not expect to see the open beta until late spring, possibly early summer. That's not on the original schedule but delays are a fact of the game development world.

What separates Bitbox from other game companies is that they actually care about their relationship with players. In past waves they have extended them when issues impacted play-ability. I believe they would do so again.

[Linbaba]

So many crying kids... "I want it now dady!!!"

Yeah I payed 30€ for this fucking few days to play. It was not for sure when the server are going down. All think they run till February.

No fu..ing Cent from me for this Game that never will be released, i guess!

What separates Bitbox from other game companies is that they actually care about their relationship with players. In past waves they have extended them when issues impacted play-ability. I believe they would do so again.

You're right, there's not a single game company who compensates their customers with free game time to coompensate for downtime!

Oh and my cynical side is telling me that if they extended past beta or alpha waves, it wasn't to compensate players for downtime but maybe rather because they felt the game wasn't ready for the next phase.

[Relgior]

I'm also angry,

First ... DEV's youre game is great.

But

I'm owner of LIF:YO so i could play MMO Beta at starting WAVE#2.

After that "ENLIGHTED NOW NEWS" i start to think about to buy a BELIEVER PACK.
I didnt want to wait until late Q1.

I did it and paid 30€ for a beliver pack on 25 Dec. .

At 28.12.2016 NEWS
you closed WAVE#1 and start WAVE#2 early february.

If i had known that i couldnt play anyway i didnt bought a believer pack.

So i believe that i paid 30€ for 3 days playing.

And that makes me really angry.

[Arrakis]

At 28.12.2016 NEWS
you closed WAVE#1 and start WAVE#2 early february.

If i had known that i couldnt play anyway i didnt bought a believer pack.

So i believe that i paid 30€ for 3 days playing.

Nope. Wave #1 will continue in few weeks.

[Relgior]

Thanks a lot for your fast answer.

[Bestial]

there is no other good games to play , maybe just open it up again now