Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Elindor]

So, I know that LiF is low magic which is a great thing.
I also have read that there would be minor blessings/curses.

One thing that might be nice would be something like a Blessing of Courage that would artificially raise someones Soft HP (or Hard HP, not sure) for a little while if the blessing was successful.

The success would be based on piety and willpower of the person doing the blessing.

With this, someone who isn't a dedicated "doctor/healer" could help in aiding the wounded by speaking this blessing over them, among other things.

This and any other effects should be minimal and not game breaking of course.

Thoughts?
Anyone have info on what kind of blessings/curses are planned already by Bobik and crew?

[Protunia]

I know they have some things planned with piety and with alchemy.

You can see icons for different things in the game folder.

Healing will be out of combat for the most part I think.

So no shout and your cured deal.

I saw Bless already that stops alignment loss iirc.

under witch craft is about what you'll see.

http://lifeisfeudal.com/mmorpgsandLiF/C ... -is-Feudal

http://lifeisfeudal.com/mmorpgsandLiF/M ... -and-Piety

[AceTheFlame]

Healing will be out of combat for the most part I think.

So no shout and your cured deal.

Well that just killed my interest.

I was hoping that they would at least bend the realism aspect a bit. For example, a Priest/Alchemist being able to buff and heal over time(nothing instant). This way those that prefer a more supportive role would have a place in the game.

I guess it's all about the bloodlust.

[Protunia]

Healing will be out of combat for the most part I think.

So no shout and your cured deal.

Well that just killed my interest.

I was hoping that they would at least bend the realism aspect a bit. For example, a Priest/Alchemist being able to buff and heal over time(nothing instant). This way those that prefer a more supportive role would have a place in the game.

I guess it's all about the bloodlust.

I would wait and see what they can do.

Potions can be very powerful things.

[AceTheFlame]

I was exaggerating a bit. It's way too soon to dismiss the game completely.

There are ways to slide in fantasy-ish elements without having particle effects blazing everywhere and launching beams out of your hands.

[Siegbert]

Healing will be out of combat for the most part I think.

So no shout and your cured deal.

Well that just killed my interest.

I was hoping that they would at least bend the realism aspect a bit. For example, a Priest/Alchemist being able to buff and heal over time(nothing instant). This way those that prefer a more supportive role would have a place in the game.

I guess it's all about the bloodlust.

While I'm sorta against magic healing for everybody I can imagine a combat medic who will heal single players.

[Proximo]

No heals in combat means you have to fight with your life on the line. Being able to heal someones open wound instantly or put a bandage on it that gives them back there blood and body structure is quite silly.

In medieval times it was the wounds that killed long after the blow was struck and why fresh troops turn the tide of battles and wars. Men cannot fight forever like in so many games, they get tired and take damages that may slow them down or put them out of action even if it doesn't kill them.

Myself being a huge fan of medieval style combat games and skill based FPS's and MMORPGs find there currently planned system to be absolutely intriguing.

[Elindor]

Yeah Im not advocating for instant heals in battle...

I'm saying if a group of combatants rallies around their leader who has high piety maybe he could "bless" them with more courage (inspired by his faith, etc) ...

...all this would do is minor effects to the drain of soft HP or something, like they were being inspired to fight through the pain.

[Proximo]

Being inspired doesn't stop the body from shutting down from blood loss.

[AceTheFlame]

100% no way of recovering in combat just forces players to zerg, since it will be the only viable way of playing.

If you want to talk about wounds not healing in combat(because that's how RL is), then we need to bring all of RL factors into it.

1) Bones should break and require months of real life time to heal. Some injuries should NEVER recover 100%. Gimping your character until you delete him.

2) Body parts should be removed if hit by certain weapons, and if you survive, should never come back.

3) Permadeath.

4) Most of us should die from an infection, after being hit by a weapon, because effective medicine wasn't a "thing" during medieval times. Or, we have our limbs chopped off just to die from an infection from the dirty blade or dirty hands of the "surgeon"(ie butcher).


If real life is going to dictate the outcome of the game(and not just used as guidelines), then we might as well add all of it. This is just a very short list.

99% of the games ever created use low fantasy elements to make up for all the junk that real life offers. Just look at ArmA. What medic do you know could revive/patch up most of the injuries that happen in that game? Why would something considered a SIM allow this? It's simple, real life pukes all over what is fun most of the time.

No, the game shouldn't have instant heals or battle rezzes. However, it should have ways to recover in battle. Preferably some sort of support role, so those of us that prefer that over being warriors, will have a place in the game.

[Proximo]

No, Arma is a terrible example since the wounds in that game are realistic and you can bleed out, pass out, break yer legs and everything else. This isn't a SIM the wounding reduces HP and debilitates you giving the enemy an advantage. You are wounded if you get hit in a vulnerable spot or take a full on blow which in my opinion is better than just taking x amount of HP loss and then dieing.

In this game you have the ability to defend yourself either with shield blocking, weapon blocking or dodging. The same as Warband an individual or group better at fighting will beat a zerg anytime. Collision detection on characters and friendly fire both play a large roll against zergs.

There are many games that don't include healing ever and in a game that doesn't include 360 no scope head shots your survivability is entirely based off your skill as a fighter.

[AceTheFlame]

No, Arma is a terrible example since the wounds in that game are realistic and you can bleed out, pass out, break yer legs and everything else.

A medic healing a soldier, that was hit by a .50 cal to the chest, back to battle ready status says otherwise. ArmA is a perfect example. It's based on realism, yet still uses low fantasy to keep the game from being dull. If life was so grand, why would we need to play video games? It's the most realistic you can get. The fact is real life has a lot of downsides that kills fun. ArmA uses these elements because a game on that scale would be dull otherwise. Battle support allows players to stay in the fight a bit longer(to keep having fun), despite RL saying they should be dead.

Which is why games use realism as a guldeline, not a be all end all source.

In this game you have the ability to defend yourself either with shield blocking, weapon blocking or dodging. The same as Warband an individual or group better at fighting will beat a zerg anytime. Collision detection on characters and friendly fire both play a large roll against zergs.

No. It's not going to happen. Warband is not an open world MMO(or even close to that scale). It's 64 player matches. That small group is going to get steamrolled and lose their gear 90% of the time. They will then be forced to zerg like everyone else just to have a fighting chance.

In DF small groups were able to survive because of the HIGH fantasy elements. There was NO way a small group was going to win versus a zerg.

There are many games that don't include healing ever and in a game that doesn't include 360 no scope head shots your survivability is entirely based off your skill as a fighter.

The rules change when you put players into a persistent open world with thousands of others. I love Red Orchestra 2 because of its tactical gameplay, which also doesn't have medics that revive or heal(though you can bandage minor wounds). That would NEVER work for a MMO though.

No battle support shifts 100% of the power to zergs. The small group is going to get beat on until they die. Again, in DF small groups were ONLY able to beat zergs because of the support skills. It's foolish to think a small group will be defending and dodging every attack sent their way from every direction.

Friendly fire has never stopped zerging, in any mmo that has ever been released.


*I'm not asking for instant heals or blazing particle effects. The game needs some kind of battle support. A game based on realism should use it as a guideline, not a rule. Meaning some real life aspects should and need to be bent in order to keep the gameplay fun. This will keep you from cutting out a niche playerbase from an already small crowd.

[Elindor]

Well, the idea of this being a "heal" is not what I intended, so before this gets off track let me rephrase.

The real point of this thread is ...

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If would be cool if people with high piety could INSPIRE their comrades in some way, I'll let you all decide which ways would be good within the mechanics of the game.
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Not a heal.

[SirWinston]

About the zerg vs small group thing, I suggest waiting until we can test the different formations. We don't know what their true effect on battle can be, and who knows maybe a small band of ten men in shieldwall formation can take a "zerg" of 30 players in a small confined area.

[AceTheFlame]

Yes, that is true. I forgot about battle formations. I have no issue with that. I'm almost not saying their needs to be a heal. There just needs to be some form of battle support. Something small groups can use to stand a chance. If it's just swinging and blocking, then a small group will have a very small chance of surviving. The game will just be about numbers.

[Proximo]

That's your opinion Ace and it's wrong. I'm talking out of experience only and I would suggest getting hands on knowledge before applying your theories.

There is no cap on Warband servers and is entirely based off the actual server and the map being played on. C-RPG's official server was over 200 and so were it's strat battles. They had a system that would banner stack clans on 1 team and ATS at peak time would all be stacked to 1 team which meant the other team had more people. Average was 60vs80 and we would steamroll and people would cry that they got no multi.

That's just normal battle and we would fight strat battles that incorporate tickets like in BF which players had to recruit so we've fought battles of 2000 vs 10000 and done extremely well. The game has no healing and is played in battle mode where you have 1 life per round so it's not a deathmatch.

Arma is a bad example because if you remove the magic button that heals ie morphine then it's a realistic wounding simulator.

Just for your information Arch it's not just about swinging and blocking it's about what type of weapon, shield, armour, stats, stamina management, skill levels, teamwork, terrain and "bonuses" you have.

[AceTheFlame]

If a group is well organized, it's easy to strategize before the "round" starts.

However, This is a MMO. There is nothing to prepare for unless you're getting ready for a siege. A group of 10 roaming around will not be prepared for a group of 40+ that may come from behind some rocks. If that group of 40 clashes with them and lands hits on a few of the 10(since again, it was unsuspected), they will not stand much of a chance to counterattack.

Just for your information Arch it's not just about swinging and blocking it's about what type of weapon, shield, armour, stats, stamina management, skill levels, teamwork, terrain and "bonuses" you have.

Lets look at stamina management. I'll say again that this is a MMO and there are no "matches". That group of 10 could mostly be at 50% stam, for whatever reason, before they are jumped.

Using the best terrain is usually never an option in a MMO outside of a siege battle. You don't get to choose where you get engaged unless you can outrun the ambushers. It's not always the best option. You'll have guys all over your back.

"Bonuses" just might be the only viable thing you stated. Which is why I keep saying battle support is needed. Whether formations provide it or not, the game needs it. The emergent gameplay that a MMO like this provides will turn into a numbers game otherwise.

[Flannery]

If a group is well organized, it's easy to strategize before the "round" starts.

However, This is a MMO. There is nothing to prepare for unless you're getting ready for a siege. A group of 10 roaming around will not be prepared for a group of 40+ that may come from behind some rocks. If that group of 40 clashes with them and lands hits on a few of the 10(since again, it was unsuspected), they will not stand much of a chance to counterattack.

If a group of 10 people are ambushed in a surprise attack by 40 organized (or even semi organized) attackers - the odds should be against them - and it would all be up to their personal skills with defending themselves.

If they already work well as a group, they will defend themselves better, and maybe even perhaps prevail -depending on the skills and abilities of the attackers.

I personally feel that healing should have NO part of the outcome...

However - if in a siege or a larger battle - the medic/healer still can (and I think he/she will) have a role, especially before and after the main battle - or if there are pauses.

But having any type of "guitar-playing-jester" in the middle of the battle who can bring you back to life from a merry tune of spring - well... no thanks...

BUT to answer the actual topic of the post:
I think the idea is a good one, and since there is going to be a religious system in the game - a blessing or inspirational speech that MAY (not always) apply something to stamina could work. Without it being magical. And it would have to be "out-of-combat". After all, even though the body still bleeds and so on, people have overcome and also held out longer in stress and danger and pain - purely on willpower.