Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Doomblood66]

Hello all, i have a question for you all. I recently purchased this game to find there is another game i have to purchase in order for you to really play the game, so i checked it out here: http://lifeisfeudal.com/LiFYO and it explains to me the features of both.

I found that there is ALOT more features in this MMO game, which is a shame really, as i feel like i paid $40 for nothing... Anyway it says that there are "No guilds, no battles and no sieges" in LiF:YO but in the mmo there are, and i found my self asking the question - why? why can't there be guilds battles and sieges, surely 64 players is enough. There doesnt seem to be any reason behind hit. I mean if you build a castle and a group attack you isnt that besieging? Or what is that classified as?

TL:DR - There are features in the MMO Version which arent in the normal version, and with (what i think) no logical reason other then for money, i think it is a waste that i spend $40 that doesnt have all the features

EDIT: Im more then happy to pay a bit extra since server costs etc, but that could be stated upfront.. my main issue is that i feel that the MMO Features would easily fit into LiF:YO.... and its stupid that its restricted

[Erif]

Doesn't have all the features.. Yes but ... Do you understant what is an Alpha Early Access ?

[Doomblood66]

Doesn't have all the features.. Yes but ... Do you understant what is an Alpha Early Access ?

Im well aware of what an Early Access game is, but you failed to read the link i sent you: http://lifeisfeudal.com/LiFYO it clearly states there will be No guilds, no battles and no sieges.

Please think before you mindlessly post.

[WDMeaun]

I must say that the differences between Your Own and MMO are incredibly misleading.. and might have been better to keep the MMO part completely quiet at the moment.

I think they haven't really thought that page http://lifeisfeudal.com/LiFYO through.

As I see it now.. the MMO version will be maintained by official staff and is basically 1 server (ignore sharding/mirroring).
This will mean they will introduce events, such as you can find in other MMO games.
Having official maintained events means you can build code support for it.. (ie. no death penalties and the likes)
This will not be possible for the LiF:YO version, because you and me are hosting the servers ourselves. (heck knows what we will be doing, so it's not official).

LiF:YO should include battles, 'sieges' and guilding/teaming, but these will be 100% player driven.
(I can't imagine that they wont include guilds/teams in LiF:YO, hence my remark that they didnt think that page through)

But what bothers me is.. They promote LiF:YO / MMO as if it's one game, but it's not really.
Will we have to buy 2 copies of basically the same game?
(most, if not all, work for the MMO version will be netcoding)

I think the reason, why they split it up like this, is that the engine simply can't handle a MMO implementation.

But 1 big, big, advice to whomever is in change of Life is Feudal.
Seperate the 2 versions completely, or state that buyers will have access to both games.
You will get tremendous amount of complaints if you do not change this. (+ possible refunds)

[Erif]

lif-yo-owners-will-receive-some-premium-currency-in-lif-mmo-t1941/

[Doomblood66]

http://lifeisfeudal.com/forum/lif-yo-owners-will-receive-some-premium-currency-in-lif-mmo-t1941/

was just about to link it... but yeah as i was saying i dont mind forking over some extra money but the features shouldnt be limited to MMOs

I would love it if the devs provided some clarification on this thread!!

[Doomblood66]

I must say that the differences between Your Own and MMO are incredibly misleading.. and might have been better to keep the MMO part completely quiet at the moment.

I have to agree, its very misleading...

LiF:YO should include battles, 'sieges' and guilding/teaming, but these will be 100% player driven.
(I can't imagine that they wont include guilds/teams in LiF:YO, hence my remark that they didnt think that page through)

Yeah thats what i thought as well, hopefully it becomes "official" instead of player tho

But what bothers me is.. They promote LiF:YO / MMO as if it's one game, but it's not really.
Will we have to buy 2 copies of basically the same game?
(most, if not all, work for the MMO version will be netcoding)

I know... again more misleading, it feels like they are milking it for all its worth, iits overpriced for Early access too!!!

[WDMeaun]

Yeah thats what i thought as well, hopefully it becomes "official" instead of player tho

It doesn't really have to be 'official' to do, what it should do.
You can't give players certain bonusses/promotions on private servers, because you can never be completely free of exploits.

I like to think about Persistent World (Mount & Blade).. which was about the same as Life is Feudal, but used the maximum map size of Mount & Blade + you couldn't build, but you can craft.
There you have a fixed amount of factions (to be implemented in LiF as guilds), which could openly declare war/peace to each other, so people would not get penalized when killing someone of the warring faction.

This does not have to be moderated in order to work, however administration is always required, because people tend not to play nicely.

This is a bit different than the MMO implementation, where these 'wars' will probably be moderated from the top. (and people might get special rewards)

lif-yo-owners-will-receive-some-premium-currency-in-lif-mmo-t1941/

I, again, like to say that they didn't really think it through.
A once for a lifetime payment is not always that good an idea for MMO games.
A lot of the costs will be the overhead of hosting, which will always be there.
A single time payment will only arrive.. a single time.
You need a lot of recurring sales in order to keep everything online, which might be hard, using a steep fee like 20 euro's in the example.

Using monthly subscriptions will most likely be better for long term financial planning.

With that in mind.. I would SEPERATE LiF:YO and LiF:MMO completely.. this will mislead people, even when it's not meant to.
People buying LiF:YO should either receive 1 character for free (single time payments), or get a period for free.. (first month free)
If LiF:YO and LiF:MMO are really meant to be combined, improve the sales/marketing/information texts, so people will not be mislead.

Again, was better to keep LiF:MMO quiet. I got the feeling that LiF:YO is the playground for LiF:MMO .
I don't think LiF:MMO will actually be possible.. that is beside the point.

[edit] The special currency for LiF:YO owners might be a nice thought, but it feels like a workaround in order to keep certain people happy.. instead having it really thought through [/edit]

[VindicteMortis]

I think you would need to be illiterate to be 'mislead'.

[Uno]

I must say that the differences between Your Own and MMO are incredibly misleading.. and might have been better to keep the MMO part completely quiet at the moment.

I think they haven't really thought that page http://lifeisfeudal.com/LiFYO through.

Instead I think you don't know how it all come to this conclusion.
Originally there was no plan for the YO version, during the development of the MMO the devs encountered serious issues in making the server cluster communicate properly, in order to support the big map that the MMO should boast. Because it is an indie company with no additional funds and they had received greenlight on Steam, they decided to release something playable in order to raise funds and at the same time let fans that greenlighted it play. So yeah, it is overpriced because aside from buying YO you are funding the development of the MMO. Yeah it has less features in order to have it playable in the immediate and in order for people to have a reason to play the MMO. But no, you do not have to buy the game twice to play it (neither version) nor the linked page is misleading. On the contrary it is all very clear, the most misleading things I have seen here are the posts from the OP.

[WDMeaun]

I must say that the differences between Your Own and MMO are incredibly misleading.. and might have been better to keep the MMO part completely quiet at the moment.

I think they haven't really thought that page http://lifeisfeudal.com/LiFYO through.

Instead I think you don't know how it all come to this conclusion.
Originally there was no plan for the YO version, during the development of the MMO the devs encountered serious issues in making the server cluster communicate properly, in order to support the big map that the MMO should boast. Because it is an indie company with no additional funds and they had received greenlight on Steam, they decided to release something playable in order to raise funds and at the same time let fans that greenlighted it play. So yeah, it is overpriced because aside from buying YO you are funding the development of the MMO. Yeah it has less features in order to have it playable in the immediate and in order for people to have a reason to play the MMO. But no, you do not have to buy the game twice to play it (neither version) nor the linked page is misleading. On the contrary it is all very clear, the most misleading things I have seen here are the posts from the OP.

I don't mean to make this a yes-no flame discussion or anything, so I don't mean any harm

My remarks were made with knowledge about the game, but indeed without knowledge of the team.
It's not about the financial costs, as I like to support anyone (I do hope that there are more than 1) making these games.
Love Mount & Blade and not a single game has come close to it. Only dwarf fortress in amount of hours gametime, I think.
(I got every game of M&B, but if War of Roses is one.. I miss 1.. oh and Carribean, because it seemed too undone)

But I am new to Life is Feudal and I have noticed more people not understanding the whole LiF:YO / MMO thing.
It seems I made a fair assumption, because I realised a true MMO with this game might be a bit tough. (as said before, check Persistent World for M&B and that comes close to LiF:YO)
This gives me more reason to financially support the guys trying to make it work.

My point is.. that it's probably a lot better if they seperated the information differently in order to avoid confusion.
Basically, I'm just saying to revise the website/steam/etc information.

You can point out that the MMO version will be closely related, but by how it is now.. it does confuse certain people (atleast 3 others and me).
I think this will hurt sales and I want them to get more sales in order to get it all done.
No idea how much it effects sales, but I'm confident that it will atleast effect it a little in a negative way.
I, myself, am avoiding certain game descriptions by default and the current description made me wonder.
Probably stopped me from buying it, if I didn't have an affection to Mount & Blade.

I will get it, when availabe, but am actually not that interested in a true MMO version.
The 'regular' LiF:YO would give me more than enough. (although a bit more players would be fun).

I wonder how effective single-time purchases will be versus monthly/annual fees.
Somehow I believe that more people will buy the same thing over an amount of time, than buying it for the whole price immediately.
(ie. getting a car for x amount of payments instead buying the whole thing).
Honestly got no idea about this.

TL;DR:

Conclusion, my opinion: It makes sense, but not to everyone, which might be enough reason to change it.
It gives an impression of a missbuy, when you did not read it all and just tried to play (aka. me).
People generally do not read. (a survey discovered the older the person, the less they read on websites)

[VindicteMortis]

missread = missbuy

its very clear what you're buying into here and what you're not.

People who complain only have themselves to blame.

[Doomblood66]

missread = missbuy

its very clear what you're buying into here and what you're not.

People who complain only have themselves to blame.

XD are you serious? It only talks about the MMO after you log In to the homescreen of the game... It feels like a cash grab....

And still no words from the dev

[Tymir]

The very damn first thing it says on the steam store page is:

"GAME IS IN EARLY ALPHA STATE. DO NOT BUY IT UNLESS YOU WANT TO SUPPORT DEVELOPMENT. In appreciation of your support all Life is Feudal:YO owners will receive Life is Feudal:MMO currency which later upon the release of the MMO version can be used to purchase a ticket for one character to gain full..."

XD are you serious? It only talks about the MMO after you log In to the homescreen of the game... It feels like a cash grab....

And still no words from the dev

[VindicteMortis]

missread = missbuy

its very clear what you're buying into here and what you're not.

People who complain only have themselves to blame.

XD are you serious? It only talks about the MMO after you log In to the homescreen of the game... It feels like a cash grab....

And still no words from the dev

I guess you fall into the 'illiterate' category that only has themselves to blame.

so XD I'm totally serious if you failed to notice the differences between YO and the MMO before you purchased.

[CirqueDuSolaire]

Well, to be fair, it's not VERY clear what you're buying and what you're not. It does feel like the devs go out of their way to leave the MMO in the dark, and it took me an insane amount of research to actually figure out what the big differences between YO and the MMO were, as well as the costs of each.

For instance, they say that in the MMO, you will have to pay 20 euro for a character, and an additional 10 for other ones. Also, they say that purchasing LiF:YO will give you currency for LiF:MMO. This is very unclear and leaves a lot of open questions.
Do I have to pay for LiF:MMO and THEN pay for a character slot?
Is LiF:MMO free to download, but I can't play unless I pay for a character slot?
If I buy LiF:YO, will I also have to buy LiF:MMO, even though I get money for the MMO?
How much money will I get for the MMO by purchasing LiF:YO? What will the money for the MMO be able to buy other than characters, if anything?
Since there is money in the MMO that can be used towards characters, will I also be able to pay for my gear/skills/equipment?
And if the MMO does follow a pay-to-win mentality, why require that people pay for characters in the first place?

Anyways, there are a lot of unanswered questions that have either never been addressed or have only been briefly mentioned in passing. Personally, I'd like to be able to have a 1 on 1 with a dev to understand everything about these games, but I'm just a nobody, so that will probably never happen.

[VindicteMortis]

But the MMO isn't on sale, nor are they trying to sell it to you.

And the differences between the two are clearly marked on the buy page.

[CirqueDuSolaire]

But the MMO isn't on sale, nor are they trying to sell it to you.

And the differences between the two are clearly marked on the buy page.

I realize the MMO isn't on sale right now, but I'm assuming that it will be in the future. Otherwise, why even talk about the MMO or even mention that it exists? And if they aren't trying to sell it to us, does that mean it will be free-to-play? And if it will be free-to-play, then why charge people to have even one character in the MMO?

Also, the clearly marked differences only explain a small handful of what I wanted to know. Almost all of my questions are still unanswered, and that's not including what I haven't written down.

[VindicteMortis]

"Why even talk about the MMO?"

Are you really asking why an development studio has talked about a game they're developing?

Huh just because they're not selling it you now (hint: its not made yet) mean its f2p later? Why would you make this wild assumption based upon that.

non sequitur after non sequitur

Okay I'll play your game. Within two minutes I found out that the MMO will be free to get hold on and create a character. But it costs ten euros to take that character out of the newbie zone into the actual game.

That answers all your following fragmented questions

"For instance, they say that in the MMO, you will have to pay 20 euro for a character, and an additional 10 for other ones. Also, they say that purchasing LiF:YO will give you currency for LiF:MMO. This is very unclear and leaves a lot of open questions.
Do I have to pay for LiF:MMO and THEN pay for a character slot?
Is LiF:MMO free to download, but I can't play unless I pay for a character slot?
If I buy LiF:YO, will I also have to buy LiF:MMO, even though I get money for the MMO?
How much money will I get for the MMO by purchasing LiF:YO? What will the money for the MMO be able to buy other than characters, if anything?
Since there is money in the MMO that can be used towards characters, will I also be able to pay for my gear/skills/equipment?
And if the MMO does follow a pay-to-win mentality, why require that people pay for characters in the first place?"

You cannot buy any gear skills or equipment.

If i could do this in two minutes why couldn't you with your ~extensive research~

[WDMeaun]

"Why even talk about the MMO?"

Are you really asking why an development studio has talked about a game they're developing?

Huh just because they're not selling it you now (hint: its not made yet) mean its f2p later? Why would you make this wild assumption based upon that.

non sequitur after non sequitur

Okay I'll play your game. Within two minutes I found out that the MMO will be free to get hold on and create a character. But it costs ten euros to take that character out of the newbie zone into the actual game.

That answers all your following fragmented questions

"For instance, they say that in the MMO, you will have to pay 20 euro for a character, and an additional 10 for other ones. Also, they say that purchasing LiF:YO will give you currency for LiF:MMO. This is very unclear and leaves a lot of open questions.
Do I have to pay for LiF:MMO and THEN pay for a character slot?
Is LiF:MMO free to download, but I can't play unless I pay for a character slot?
If I buy LiF:YO, will I also have to buy LiF:MMO, even though I get money for the MMO?
How much money will I get for the MMO by purchasing LiF:YO? What will the money for the MMO be able to buy other than characters, if anything?
Since there is money in the MMO that can be used towards characters, will I also be able to pay for my gear/skills/equipment?
And if the MMO does follow a pay-to-win mentality, why require that people pay for characters in the first place?"

You cannot buy any gear skills or equipment.

If i could do this in two minutes why couldn't you with your ~extensive research~

Your contribution to this discussion is only making it worse, as it seems like you do not understand the issue.
Yes, the information is available, if you specifically search for it.
But there are enough players not getting the whole subject.. and just for them it would help expanding/seperating the information.

You are now in 'blame-mode', which is contra productive.

The point is that some players do not get the differences and feel mislead before or after buying LiF:YO. Period.
Wether you, personally, understand it or not is completely irrelevant.

Every person, who feels mislead, can, and probably will, make a negative statement.
Every negative statement is one too many.

Is there enough information about MMO/YO? : Yes
Is this information written in such a way that -all- new players understand? : No
Will the current information lead to missing sales : Definite yes

I'm happy that there are enough players, who do understand, but it's not about you.
Blaming the ignorant for not knowing.. isn't the best selling point you can use.

Rather do not reply anymore if you're stuck in blame mode, because you seem to be missing the point.

This discussion is NOT about the alpha state / early access.. I think we did know all of that beforehand. (besides I was actually surprised of how much was already possible)

[edit] still stopid to make a colon a smily [/edit]

[CirqueDuSolaire]

Your contribution to this discussion is only making it worse, as it seems like you do not understand the issue.
Yes, the information is available, if you specifically search for it.
But there are enough players not getting the whole subject.. and just for them it would help expanding/seperating the information.

You are now in 'blame-mode', which is contra productive.

The point is that some players do not get the differences and feel mislead before or after buying LiF:YO. Period.
Wether you, personally, understand it or not is completely irrelevant.

Every person, who feels mislead, can, and probably will, make a negative statement.
Every negative statement is one too many.

Is there enough information about MMO/YO? Yes
Is this information written in such a way that -all- new players understand? No
Will the current information lead to missing sales Definite yes

I'm happy that there are enough players, who do understand, but it's not about you.
Blaming the ignorant for not knowing.. isn't the best selling point you can use.

Rather do not reply anymore if you're stuck in blame mode, because you seem to be missing the point.

This discussion is NOT about the alpha state / early access.. I think we did know all of that beforehand. (besides I was actually surprised of how much was already possible)

Thank you for supporting me in this matter. At least I'm not the only one who sees what I'm talking about.

If i could do this in two minutes why couldn't you with your ~extensive research~

If you did do this in two minutes, I actually want to know where this information is, not to sound like a douche, but because I want to know all this info. If you could please link me the page with all this info, I'd be really grateful. You make it sound like this information is just in plain sight or something, but it's obviously not. Otherwise, this discussion would not exist.

[Doomblood66]

Your contribution to this discussion is only making it worse, as it seems like you do not understand the issue.
Yes, the information is available, if you specifically search for it.
But there are enough players not getting the whole subject.. and just for them it would help expanding/seperating the information.

You are now in 'blame-mode', which is contra productive.

The point is that some players do not get the differences and feel mislead before or after buying LiF:YO. Period.
Wether you, personally, understand it or not is completely irrelevant.

Every person, who feels mislead, can, and probably will, make a negative statement.
Every negative statement is one too many.

Is there enough information about MMO/YO? Yes
Is this information written in such a way that -all- new players understand? No
Will the current information lead to missing sales Definite yes

I'm happy that there are enough players, who do understand, but it's not about you.
Blaming the ignorant for not knowing.. isn't the best selling point you can use.

Rather do not reply anymore if you're stuck in blame mode, because you seem to be missing the point.

This discussion is NOT about the alpha state / early access.. I think we did know all of that beforehand. (besides I was actually surprised of how much was already possible)

Thank you for supporting me in this matter. At least I'm not the only one who sees what I'm talking about.

If i could do this in two minutes why couldn't you with your ~extensive research~

If you did do this in two minutes, I actually want to know where this information is, not to sound like a douche, but because I want to know all this info. If you could please link me the page with all this info, I'd be really grateful. You make it sound like this information is just in plain sight or something, but it's obviously not. Otherwise, this discussion would not exist.

Sorry to bump an old thread but I too agree with you and that alpha disclaimer has nothing to do with hiding the MMO!

[Doomblood66]

Still no response from devs...

[WDMeaun]

Still no response from devs...

We don't need the actual developers for this, but I am also still waiting for an acknowledgement that the information can be misleading for those, not familiar with the team.

I'm actually very positive about everything.. don't understand why changing the information itself would be such a bother.

[Carrion]

There was an official response from the devs already, before you even made this thread, all the features in the MMO will be in YO except mapsize and player count.

[Doomblood66]

There was an official response from the devs already, before you even made this thread, all the features in the MMO will be in YO except mapsize and player count.

link?