Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Liamx4]

Hi.
I was thinking abount one thing. Everyone know (well, should know) that actually full loot is a feature that is not working in MMOs, can work in little coop game shards, but not in MMO that need a lot of players to be called Massive (first M in MMO). Very few MMO players like full loot, more than this a lot of players like to play without problems of PvP everywhere, risking every moment character life and all the items.
Life is Feudal want to be a MMO, so need to have a lot of players, and this cannot be achieved with full pvp e full loot everywhere, in fact the indiegogo campaign is not collecting enough moneys because people are kept far from game because of these 2 features.
But hey, some players want pvp and full loot so I had an idea: just make only one single area (region) of the world with pvp and full loot enabled. In this region there should be great riches, best hunting grounds, best places for housing, the rarest resources and so on. So people who would like to compete with other players at the maximum will have to go in this region risking life and items. All other players (example: a crafter who is not interested in killing others and does not want to be killed) can stay in safe regions and enjoy the game without problems of pvp/full loot.
In this way a lot more players could be interested in Life is Feudal, because actually the majority of MMOs players are PvErs so if you create a great game for PvErs with a balanced and interesting area for PvPers (with full loot too) you can make a great game for both kind of players.

[Kuroi]

nope

[Arrakis]

Liamx4

First and most important: PvP and full loot are one of the main features of this game, and this game is hardcore game from the start, if you want to be free of PvPing in most areas just play WoW-like games, because here.. Well, here Life is Feudal, and that speaks for itself.

Second thing is that Indiegogo campaign, it does not fail because any of features implemented in the game, but because of perks that are too expensive and Bobik is aware of that.

Hopefully I have enlightened you in that matter.

[Siegbert]

Nah, PVP is what makes this game fun, supposedly. What are you going to do in non-pvp areas? There is no PVE. You can build stuff, ok... but what are player built castles worth if there is no danger?

And about the MMO:
actually a few hundred people would be enough to make it a fun experience. You don't need players in every m² of the map.
I'm positive this game already has enough people who are interested to make up a nice player-driven world.

[Liamx4]

If they want to have a good population for a MMO and still going for a full loot game, they should start to think on an insurance system just like UO did (UO was the father of full loot games and still Origin/EA had to put insurance because players doesn't like full loot anymore) or just like Star Citizen is doing. They could have success with crowd funding using an insurance system just to negate the full loot system (like, as i said, star citizen MMO).
Few hundres players is not a MMO, is like an UO shard, but we are no more in late '90s, it's 2013 and a MMO must have players and features that players like.

And Life is Feudal have PvE, just called hunting, make a great hunting system, bandits, animals, from which take basic materials to use in crafting process. No need to have PvP everywhere is people can do what they like (PvE / hunting when they want, PvP with all the risks going in a specific map).

PvP or full loot is in no way equal to hardcore, nor life simulation, or they should put: character aging, illness, permadeath. Full loot and PvP are only used to harass other players, so that should be limited only in zones where players go if they want to compete with others

[Kuroi]

If they want to have a good population for a MMO and still going for a full loot game, they should start to think on an insurance system just like UO did (UO was the father of full loot games and still Origin/EA had to put insurance because players doesn't like full loot anymore) or just like Star Citizen is doing. They could have success with crowd funding using an insurance system just to negate the full loot system (like, as i said, star citizen MMO).
Few hundres players is not a MMO, is like an UO shard, but we are no more in late '90s, it's 2013 and a MMO must have players and features that players like.

And Life is Feudal have PvE, just called hunting, make a great hunting system, bandits, animals, from which take basic materials to use in crafting process. No need to have PvP everywhere is people can do what they like (PvE / hunting when they want, PvP with all the risks going in a specific map).

PvP or full loot is in no way equal to hardcore, nor life simulation, or they should put: character aging, illness, permadeath. Full loot and PvP are only used to harass other players, so that should be limited only in zones where players go if they want to compete with others

yet there are thousands of people who miss pre-trammel UO, did you make a worldwide survey to state that "players doesn't like full loot" ?

if you don't like few hundreds of players (are you a wizard? can you see in the future?) then don't play, or deal with it.

[Liamx4]

then don't play, or deal with it.

Or make suggestions on making a better and more complete game, just what I'm doing

[Siegbert]

If they want to have a good population for a MMO and still going for a full loot game, they should start to think on an insurance system just like UO did (UO was the father of full loot games and still Origin/EA had to put insurance because players doesn't like full loot anymore) or just like Star Citizen is doing. They could have success with crowd funding using an insurance system just to negate the full loot system (like, as i said, star citizen MMO).

Yeah, idk about full loot either. I imagine it to be pretty frustrating when you constantly lose stuff you have worked for. In Mortal Online I felt this way, also in Persistent World mod for Mount&Blade.
I think there should be a hybrid. Maybe your suggestion would be good.

Few hundres players is not a MMO, is like an UO shard, but we are no more in late '90s, it's 2013 and a MMO must have players and features that players like.

Idk how many people play Mortal Online. It can't be too many as I always saw the same people. A couple of hundreds maybe. It didn't feel crowded when you're out of town, but I think that's okay. I don't want people to be everywhere sticking their noses in my business...

[Kuroi]

then don't play, or deal with it.

Or make suggestions on making a better and more complete game, just what I'm doing

changing the game design is not a suggestion, it is just changing the game as you wish it to be, lol.

Yeah, idk about full loot either. I imagine it to be pretty frustrating when you constantly lose stuff you have worked for. In Mortal Online I felt this way.

"imagining" isn't a reliable factor, i play/played MO since 2009 and i never felt frustrated by full loot, you should play it at its fullest before even give an opinion on it...

MO now has a little player base (not that really little, tbh) cause the game suffered of plenty of bugs since release, full loot has nothing do to with it.

[Liamx4]

changing the game design is not a suggestion, it is just changing the game as you wish it to be, lol.

An MMO is an ever-changing game, a MMO in development phase even more. UO put Trammel and item insurance years after initial release, because players asked for it, now that Life is Feudal is still in development stage is the right time to insert features players will want to play the game, like pve zones, item insurance, just look at UO...

MO now has a little player base (not that really little, tbh) cause the game suffered of plenty of bugs since release, full loot has nothing do to with it.

Really? Can you mention a full loot MMO with a population good for a MMO (at least some some thousand players)? No? Try to imagine why...

[Kuroi]

UO put Trammel and item insurance years after initial release, because players asked for it

UO put Trammel cause noobs CRIED for it, EA ruined it, NOT Origin that's the power of money, if Origin was an indiependent crew i guess they would never make Trammel. EA ruined UO, everyone knows it.

Really? Can you mention a full loot MMO with a population good for a MMO (at least some some thousand players)? No? Try to imagine why...

every full loot MMO which had good population just went bad cause of bugs and bad optimization, like Darkfall which had more than 20k people on release a lot of them left the game for its bugs and crashes and lags, totally NOT for full loot.
Mortal Online got like 30k preorders before closed beta, initially they were planning for closed beta A to D stages, then they had to create E and F cause of all the people who bought it. and same as for DF, it started to lose population once people couldn't handle the initial bugs and crashes, i remember on release date there were like 10 people on every tree in every city, it was fuckin overcrowded. same here, bugs and crashes killed population

there are hundreds of good UO servers with thousands of people each, soon Az will start his IPY3 server which will have its usual 2-5k people

Haven&Hearth used to have more than 2k people playing it, and it has permadeath. now people play it less cause Salem is out.

Xsyon had a very good player base, then the game was just shit.

you are just blinded and narrow-minded thinking that "full loot" is the reason of such low pop, grow up man

[Liamx4]

EA ruined UO, everyone knows it.

And still they put it because people wants it. An MMO must be a game for only its devs or for players? So a MMO should have features that players like...

you are just blinded and narrow-minded thinking that "full loot" is the reason of such low pop, grow up man

But it is the reason. People start playing new MMO, they start losing all equip because of full loot and pvp everywhere, people sto playing the game.
Themeparks pve based and with no full loot have hundred of thousands if not millions of players and full loot games have 1-2 thousand to be high...
Or look at MOBA games, they are pvp very competitive games, but no loot... and millions of players paly them...
Can't you see what people want? Or better, what people does not want.

People like equipment, items, and does not like losing them. What's wrong in this? Put insurance, pve zones, some mechanism just to negate full loot even a cash shop in development stage just like Star Citizen and you have 100 times the actual followers of the game

[Kuroi]

And still they put it because people wants it.

crying =/= wanting

EA didn't make the game, so they didn't CARE if it was gonna be slaughtered by crying babies' mechanics.

But it is the reason. People start playing new MMO, they start losing all equip because of full loot and pvp everywhere, people sto playing the game.

did you even read my whole reply? if you did, you should re-read it or play WoW


inb4 Bobik's "life IS feudal"

Vladimir: full loot is one of the core features of our game --- everyone can attack everyone at any given time, it is just consequences that both of them should be worried about.

[SaresITA89]

every full loot MMO which had good population just went bad cause of bugs and bad optimization, like Darkfall which had more than 20k people on release a lot of them left the game for its bugs and crashes and lags, totally NOT for full loot.
Mortal Online got like 30k preorders before closed beta, initially they were planning for closed beta A to D stages, then they had to create E and F cause of all the people who bought it. and same as for DF, it started to lost population once people couldn't handle the initial bugs and crashes, i remember on release date there were like 10 people on every tree on every tree in every city, it was fuckin overcrowded. same here, bugs and crashes killed population

there are hundreds of good UO servers with thousands of people each, soon Az will start his IPY3 server which will have its usual 2-5k people

Haven&Hearth used to have more than 2k people playing it, and it has permadeath. now people play it less cause Salem is out.

Xsyon had a very good player base, then the game was just shit.

you are just blinded and narrow-minded thinking that "full loot" is the reason of such low pop, grow up man

Quote, quote, quote!!!!!!

the problem is not the full loot, but the SH that fail to create decent games.

PS: Mortal Online has now become good, and the population is increasing. In 2014 will also go on steam!

of steam there are a lot of people who love the full-loot, people playing:

minecraft, state-of-dekey, dayz, warz, salem, terraaria

[Demonic]

@Liamx4: You mistake Casual MMOs with Life is Feudal. LiF is not casual, WoW is. You are not making suggestons, you are trying to change one of the core mechanics of the game.

Dude, you should accept the fact, this game is not for you. Go find some casual game without full loot and PvP, and stop trying to make LiF casual.

[Liamx4]

Who talked about casual players? Not me.
Even the most hardcore players does not love full loot, just look at the most famous PvE/raiding guilds of themeparks, members of those guilds play a lot and they play well, they are not casual players, still most of them prefer PvE and not have full loot in pvp.

Moreover, most of actual MMO players are not players who can stay online 24hr a day, often less then 10 hours a week, and they in that time wanan play, not be parma dead and naked because of the first stupid player just pass by and enjoy harassing them. They should not be able to play?

I think every player should be able to play, the game simply should have various mechanics in different zones, from full loot/full pvp without player cap, to full pve, to balanced pvp zones (bg/arena).

What's wrong in making a game to attract a large base of players? That can be a real MMO with a lot of players.

[Kuroi]

Who talked about casual players? Not me.
Even the most hardcore players does not love full loot, just look at the most famous PvE/raiding guilds of themeparks, members of those guilds play a lot and they play well, they are not casual players, still most of them prefer PvE and not have full loot in pvp.

Moreover, most of actual MMO players are not players who can stay online 24hr a day, often less then 10 hours a week, and they in that time wanan play, not be parma dead and naked because of the first stupid player just pass by and enjoy harassing them. They should not be able to play?

I think every player should be able to play, the game simply should have various mechanics in different zones, from full loot/full pvp without player cap, to full pve, to balanced pvp zones (bg/arena).

are you comparing sandbox and themepark for real?

your "most hardcore themepark players" don't love full loot cause that equip is just made after hundreds of hours spent in the same and same dungeon and OF COURSE you can't make it droppable on death, i couldn't imagine the whine about it LOL.

go play another game, really, this isn't for you, themepark is your way

What's wrong in making a game to attract a large base of players?

making wow clones is always wrong.

[Liamx4]

making wow clones is always wrong.

Game online for large number of players = Massive Multiplayer Online game. Not every MMO is or should be a WoW clone (if that is good or wrong, it's OT).

Game with few hundred players = games single players with coop/shards like Minecraft, Dayz and others.

In MMOs and for MMOs players, some features are good, others not. Full loot is not a good feature for MMO players, and reality is just there to be seen by yourself (UO made trammel + insurance, no other full loot game of success, and so on)

[Kuroi]

Full loot is not a good feature for MMO players, and reality is just there to be seen by yourself (UO made trammel + insurance, no other full loot game of success, and so on)

if you still don't understand the fact that EA made it for money and cause it wasn't their game, you can't understand it. Bobik, the creator of the game and only owner, WANTS full loot and will NEVER change his original design, he clearly even said it on the mmorpg.com interview, DEAL WITH IT.


/done with the thread since you will probably not stop even if Bobik in person tells you about it, bye

[Bobik]

Can you mention a full loot MMO with a population good for a MMO (at least some some thousand players)? No? Try to imagine why...

EVE online, up to 55k+ ppl at once at prime time. It is not like totally full loot, because much of your stuff is lost in a ship explosion, but you loose it all anyway. Insurance system works there perfectly and who knows, maybe we will implement something similar.

But turning full loot off in our game, is just like suggesting "Hey, let's make it not MMO, but Superheroes in future setting?!"

[Kuroi]

But turning full loot off in our game, is just like suggesting "Hey, let's make it not MMO, but Superheroes in future setting?!"

amen

[Cian]

You will be many suggestions Bobik. Please don't lose the vision of your game just to please a few loud people.

[Kuroi]

You will be many suggestions Bobik. Please don't lose the vision of your game just to please a few loud people.

/agree

Insurance system works there perfectly and who knows, maybe we will implement something similar. )

Insurance ala EVE would work (you get some gold once you lose your insured equip, just in case liamx doesn't know, NO EQUIP BACK), even tho i would prefer no insurance at all

[Liamx4]

EVE online, up to 55k+ ppl at once at prime time. It is not like totally full loot,

Exactly, just like Star Citizen is making 30+ millions of dollars, stating that it's a full loot game and then making pay for the insurance, so you have your ship back if that is destroyed. This is not full loot, nor EVE online.

maybe we will implement something similar.

In these alpha stage of development I think inserting a similar system, with insurance on all items, can be done. Do not understimated what the majority of MMO players really like and want and not what a few players who cannot even make a full UO shard.

But turning full loot off in our game,

just make a system that by paying gold in game (or copy Chris Roberts with the alpha ship cash shop) you can prevent any item from being looted, so you does not want to risk items just have to pay.

I hope you realize what people want from MMO, most of the features of Life is Feudal are great, from housing to terraforming, from combat system to class-less character grow, hunger system, and so on, but with full loot and no way to prevent the loss of your items, will be against what most players wants, and a MMO with few thousands of player is simply not a MMO

[Kuroi]

just make a system that by paying gold in game (or copy Chris Roberts with the alpha ship cash shop) you can prevent any item from being looted

he talked about EVE insurance, do you even know how that works? you get some GOLD if your insured loot gets lost, not your insured loot. Bobik said they may implement something like that, but keep your dreams low, it's probably not something it's gonna be implemented in the short run lol. it's not what the game is based on

[Liamx4]

he talked about EVE insurance, do you even know how that works? you get some GOLD if your insured loot gets lost, not your insured loot.

And I suggested (it's suggestion subforum) or an insurance like that in Star Citizen (you get your ship destroyed, you get your ship back after some hours of "reparation") or a lock on items that players does not want to lose.

[Kuroi]

And I suggested --- you get your ship back --- or a lock on items that players does not want to lose.

and he already stated that full loot is a core mechanic? lol

stop comparing to a sci-fi game, as we already told you you're not suggesting anything, you just want a different game.

[Arrakis]

I do not see where is this conversation going at all.

What I see actually is comparing medieval, hardcore, sandbox mmo to some sci-fi games, which really doesn't make any sense.

Can someone please tell me what the is going on in here? Because if this topic is related to sci-fi games like EVE etc, then it should be put in different section.

Liamx4, if you cannot accept open PvP and full loot system, then I am afraid that this game is not for you, and I am completely serious, hardcore games such as this one has only so many followers, because it is really hard to survive in that world and you need to use strategic thinking, not only stay in one place and grind.

So please stop suggesting to change or get rid of LiF core features.

[Cian]

What is there to insure? Some armor that took a few hours to make? Maybe a horse? Some food? Perhaps you want to insure your peasent's hat?

You going to spend gold to insure them? How will you get this gold? Animals don't drop gold. Will you mine this gold yourself?

Perhaps you want to spend real money to buy insurance on your castle? What would they pay you back with? Castle materials in your bank? Maybe have them build you a new one?

Insurance doesn't work in a sandbox game where everything is player made. To do so would require that Bobik set an arbitrary value for everything.

Then you cloud the economy with insurance pay outs that will most certainly exceed the actual normal gold creation. Insurance will become the primary means of Gold creation and the economy will be dependent on it.

There is nothing positive about insurance in a game like this. Please abandon the idea. It's not need anyhow, you can make everything yourself within a few hours.

[Kuroi]

What is there to insure? Some armor that took a few hours to make? Maybe a horse? Some food? Perhaps you want to insure your peasent's hat?

You going to spend gold to insure them? How will you get this gold? Animals don't drop gold. Will you mine this gold yourself?

Perhaps you want to spend real money to buy insurance on your castle? What would they pay you back with? Castle materials in your bank? Maybe have them build you a new one?

Insurance doesn't work in a sandbox game where everything is player made. To do so would require that Bobik set an arbitrary value for everything.

Then you cloud the economy with insurance pay outs that will most certainly exceed the actual normal gold creation. Insurance will become the primary means of Gold creation and the economy will be dependent on it.

There is nothing positive about insurance in a game like this. Please abandon the idea. It's not need anyhow, you can make everything yourself within a few hours.

+1