Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Liamx4]

Insurance doesn't work in a sandbox game where everything is player made.

http://www.uoguide.com/Item_Insurance

And they can put the gold from killing a player with insured items, like in UO, so the winner does not take items from the player but still wins gold.

[Arrakis]

Again, why would you want to insure items that you can easly craft by yourself? What's the point of this? You die, you get materials, you craft your armor and weapon again, how do you want to insure that?

Are you willing to run every 5 minutes to for ex. main city with each item and make insurance for each one? And you will propably die on the way there or back from there, so you need to craft these items and go on the trip again.

You are still going on with your suggestion to disable full loot, why? Why you are so stubborn?

Bobik will not not suddenly change his mind and say "Oh, okay, we will disable full loot and PvP so you would keep your precious items and just be rich and untouchable superhero", no it will not happen.

Life is Feudal, and if there will be no global PvP and full loot,life will no longer be feudal, it will be just life.. without any danger from anyone, you will just live peacefully in your village or your small shelter, and suddenly you will get bored because major feature of that game will be gone, because this will be no longer the same game.

If you are trying so hard to change that game, then I suggest you think about consequences of such major changes, you want to strip this game of it's soul, and I'm sorry but this is something developers and other people won't accept.

Think about that.

[SaresITA89]

Liamx4
STAR CITIZEN has not insurance to prevent the full loot.

The insurance you do is just to ship basis. So I kill you, you lose all the improvements made to the ship.

And the same goes for EVE.

Please do not talk about things you do not know.

[Liamx4]

STAR CITIZEN has not insurance to prevent the full loot.

The insurance you do is just to ship basis. So I kill you, you lose all the improvements made to the ship.

And the same goes for EVE.

Please do not talk about things you do not know.

Every different game can have different ways to insure items. I posted a link to the UO insurance system, better for a game like Life is Feudal, that has a lot in common with UO

[SaresITA89]

UO? UO is dead with insurance.
Ask yourself why no one plays and they are opened unofficial shard where there is full loot.

[Bretticus5]

If we talk UO then the whole point of ephemeral supplies/equipment is that the economy is structured around the fleeting.

If you want to put a game like WoW in the same ballpark then consider it like this:

The material cost to make any epic you would take into a dungeon could be gathered in maybe 15-30 minutes. But in that time period in order to be efficient in your gathering you would have collected enough material to create 10-20 of whatever epic you wanted to make. Thus the price of one of these epics is RELATIVE to cost of TIME + MATERIALS. So buying from a blacksmith that sick epic would be a minor investment. Would anyone play LIF if it took 2 months of raid grinding to get the most epic of epic gear just to lose it all in one death? nope. Think in relative terms.

[Bretticus5]

Oh, furthermore. Consider that frostfire /ice lance combo you keep spamming for 30 minutes. How many times did you cast that spell? Now imagine if a resource was required for each and every spell cast AND there was a chance of failure to cast resulting in wasted resources? The worlds of LIF (or its core influences) and WOW are so different its really hard to compare unless you put them on even ground.

[Atiden]

I think what the OP is either forgetting or doesn't know about, is the fact that Lif is not a game in the strict sense of the word, games are designed by developers as a way to make a living and have fun doing it as well as having the extra bonus of the players having fun, what Bobik and his team are doing is making their dream game, which is completely different from a normal game.

let's put this into a metaphor, Bobik and his team are artists creating their masterpiece, they already have an idea of what they want it to look like, the suggestion forums really is just a place where observers like us can give advice on smaller things to make the masterpiece better, BUT NOT DIFFERENT.

[Dailato]

When adressing potential issues with a game, be sure to keep in mind the game's vision, and be sure you're not trying to change that when suggesting a different approach to it's implementation in the game.

If you don't like something that is a part of the game's vision, just look for another game. If you do like the vision, but dislike the way it is implemented, that is when you go suggest something to the developers.

Otherwise the results tend to be something like archeage, where a game with great vision gets turned into mediocrity by listening to critics who care not for the vision in the first place.
And especially with a niche game such as this there will be very, very many critics who don't realise it's the game's vision they are critiqueing, rather than it's implementation.

In this case, having the freedom to attack anyone, (almost) anywhere, if you are willing to deal with the consequences, and full looting of defeated foes, is part of the vision for a realistic medieval rpg mmo.

Now you can critique the way it is implemented, as in where/what exceptions would/should/could be, and what consequences there are for killing people or how harsh they should be. But discussing whether or not the game should have full loot open-pvp is critiqueing the vision, and that is at best useless to the devs, and at worst makes for a much worse game.

One should be mindful of what will happen if people do listen to you, as well as if they don't, my children. The consequences of your words may be more ruinous than you realise.

Your truly -The Pope

[Sting5]

I don't think that full loot or all map PvP is a problem - I know that medieval themed games and post-apocalyptic games differ, but just look at DayZ - this game is on the flow! It started as a mod to ArmaIII, and now it's standalone thanks to a huge fan base. I might even say idea of LIF is similar to the one in DayZ or MortalOnline, but what is most important - Creator has a clear vision of how the game should be, and he should go all the way. Of course, this game will lose some players who just love grinding gems and resources for some precious items. Someone pointed very accurately by telling "non-casual players don't like full loot because they worked long and hard for it" the But I don't see why it's a problem for this game in any case? So far it seems that buildings and even armor wouldn't be hard to make - all you need is to have enough skill to do that. So material/resources isn't the main problem. Main problem would be to stay alive and not to loose skill points.
The most precious resource in this game should be experience - we have a saying in my country - you get money not for nailing the nail, but for knowing where to nail it.
And LIF should be something like that - most precious and most time consuming should be gathering of experience and raising skills. Armor and buildings are pretty easy to accumulate here.

I do think that Bobik shows great concept for good/evil and worth doing/pointless in this game: this game should have a highly rewarding system for good players, and harsh living conditions for those who kills innocent and live criminal lives, for example if You kill player You get bounty on Your head, if You kill again, you can't enter town/market (something similar to Skyrim) because everyone knows You're bad. AND if You kill a bandit/criminal, You get bonus and maybe even a discount on products at NPC's (if any).

You really want to know what kills the game? I'ts Pay to Win! I loved Mortal Online, didn't care about full loot and that PvP is almost everywhere - I droped it as soon as I've found out that free players have 60 skill cap while game supporters can reach 100. F that.

[Rotnroller89]

Though I will admit I'm not 100% fan of every pvp/full loot. I do agree with allot of the posts its a key part of the game. Being a casual player of WarZ (Infestation: Survivor stories) I do have to say getting jumped and loosing some good gear sucks and was frustrating for a long time as I played through it. Then I took a step back and thought about it. Its because I made stupid choices, going into areas on the map (regardless of sever) where major bandit sites.

When I thought about it that way it made me less angry and frustrated. Thinking about it a possible alternative would be, if resources allow, suggest a secondary server or maybe instanced map servers that where smaller maps for pve content. Granted that being the powers at be feel there is a need/demand for it. But that alone has its obstacles, issues and would almost be an entire standalone game.

My biggest suggestion would be if you want to focus on crafting or just kind of tinkering causally here and there. Get in with a big group off the start, because its likely they would have a section that would focus towards the combat skills to provide protection for crafters and citizens. If, you want to free roam then its best to play smart. Learn the terrain know what your walking into and be prepared to defend yourself at a moments notice.

[Thokan]

When adressing potential issues with a game, be sure to keep in mind the game's vision, and be sure you're not trying to change that when suggesting a different approach to it's implementation in the game.

If you don't like something that is a part of the game's vision, just look for another game. If you do like the vision, but dislike the way it is implemented, that is when you go suggest something to the developers.

Otherwise the results tend to be something like archeage, where a game with great vision gets turned into mediocrity by listening to critics who care not for the vision in the first place.
And especially with a niche game such as this there will be very, very many critics who don't realise it's the game's vision they are critiqueing, rather than it's implementation.

In this case, having the freedom to attack anyone, (almost) anywhere, if you are willing to deal with the consequences, and full looting of defeated foes, is part of the vision for a realistic medieval rpg mmo.

Now you can critique the way it is implemented, as in where/what exceptions would/should/could be, and what consequences there are for killing people or how harsh they should be. But discussing whether or not the game should have full loot open-pvp is critiqueing the vision, and that is at best useless to the devs, and at worst makes for a much worse game.

One should be mindful of what will happen if people do listen to you, as well as if they don't, my children. The consequences of your words may be more ruinous than you realise.

Your truly -The Pope

What he said^ It is indeed strange to critique one of the main concepts of the game. It is to miss the aim of the game, entirely.

Besides, I myself am considering Bobik's plans for hermit claims a bit casual. Unlike Haven and Hearth Bobik has guaranteed safety within your own claim. The only way to incriminate a walled claim is if it were to find itself on a realm-lord's land and he decided to invoke it.

You will be able to avoid PvP to a great degree folks. Relax.

[Proximo]

Someone kill liamx4 before I get to him.

[Arrakis]

Someone kill liamx4 before I get to him.

How this is related to the topic?

We can all agree that his suggestion will find no place in reality, but there is no need for showing aggresion that way.

[Proximo]

Someone kill liamx4 before I get to him.

How this is related to the topic?

We can all agree that his suggestion will find no place in reality, but there is no need for showing aggresion that way.

Just wait until more of the Darkfall and c-rpg community get's here.

I'll spell out what I meant when I said that. It's a bad idea and not in anyway shape or form helping the development of this game. It basically goes against the very fabric of this game.

[Priest]

I have to disagree with the OP because full loot and a brutal PvP atmosphere is the foundation of this game. The people excited and interested in this game are so for these specific reasons and I'm sure many others as well.

As for the detractors saying that because of these features the game will be hard pressed to find a player base I need only to point as a small handful of incredibly successful games. First game is EvE online which has had nothing but pretty steady growth since its beginnings ten years ago, and is still going quite strong. The second game is DayZ. This Zombie survival game with full loot and perma death, while not ENTIRELY an MMO in our sense of the word due to the server limitations, can still boast 800k players in the first 3 weeks of the standalone being released. Rust is also gaining steam (though I don't have numbers) and UO was incredibly popular in it's time.

[Sting5]

[...] Bobik has guaranteed safety within your own claim. The only way to incriminate a walled claim is if it were to find itself on a realm-lord's land and he decided to invoke it.

You will be able to avoid PvP to a great degree folks. Relax.

Not quite true Thokan - Bobik told in stream video that players will be able to enter your claim and kill You if You will forget to fence/close the door.

I'm still wondering how will the game prevent simply digging tunnel under someone's fence - defenses will have no meaning then.

[Bobik]

[...] Bobik has guaranteed safety within your own claim. The only way to incriminate a walled claim is if it were to find itself on a realm-lord's land and he decided to invoke it.

You will be able to avoid PvP to a great degree folks. Relax.

Not quite true Thokan - Bobik told in stream video that players will be able to enter your claim and kill You if You will forget to fence/close the door.

I'm still wondering how will the game prevent simply digging tunnel under someone's fence - defenses will have no meaning then.

Yes, that is true. If you let someone inside your claim walls perimeter or your claim simply have no walls or house where you can hide in - you will be killed and looted. Sorry, your claim is not an entirely 100% safe zone. It is just your walls that can not be destroyed, while your claim is active, so if you're behind those walls - you're relatively safe.

About tunnel under claim. There will be no mechanisms to prevent that. BUT there is a mechanism that prohibit you to make any terraforming actions on the surface of someone's claim. So you will be able to build a tunnel UNDER someone's claim, but you won't be able to dig OUT on the surface of someones claim. So there is still no way for you to get inside that claim other then just through the open door, gate or wicket.

[Thokan]

[...] Bobik has guaranteed safety within your own claim. The only way to incriminate a walled claim is if it were to find itself on a realm-lord's land and he decided to invoke it.

You will be able to avoid PvP to a great degree folks. Relax.

Not quite true Thokan - Bobik told in stream video that players will be able to enter your claim and kill You if You will forget to fence/close the door.

I'm still wondering how will the game prevent simply digging tunnel under someone's fence - defenses will have no meaning then.

Yes, that is why I used the term walled claim.

[Sting5]

Yes, that is true. If you let someone inside your claim walls perimeter or your claim simply have no walls or house where you can hide in - you will be killed and looted. Sorry, your claim is not an entirely 100% safe zone. It is just your walls that can not be destroyed, while your claim is active, so if you're behind those walls - you're relatively safe.

About tunnel under claim. There will be no mechanisms to prevent that. BUT there is a mechanism that prohibit you to make any terraforming actions on the surface of someone's claim. So you will be able to build a tunnel UNDER someone's claim, but you won't be able to dig OUT on the surface of someones claim. So there is still no way for you to get inside that claim other then just through the open door, gate or wicket.

Thanks for the thorough explanation Bobik, sounds great and safe enough!

Thokan sorry, I missread Your post, my bad.

[Proximo]

Safe enough? lock your doors, hide yer kids, hide yer wife.

[LordWiese]

Yeah, forget this idea...

[AericMorte]

From all appearances, this is not going to be a "quest heavy" game by any stretch of the imagination. From what I have read it's going to be NPC light, and THE PLAYERS are going to be expected to drive the action in game. Ultimately, this means conflict in its various forms will the the "end game" activity in LiF.

The only type of safe zone I can think of is something like Darkfall where you log into a neutral area to begin the game. The big difference I would make is that you no longer can harvest in this area once you aquire so many skill points. So essentially, once you lose that new player gleam, the "starter" area becomes totally useless to you and you are forced to find your place in the world.

The no loot conversation was quite entertaining. It simply will not work, as the point of this game is to make it the most like real life as possible. That is why original UO was so ground breaking. It wasn't only because it was the first MMORPG, but because Richard Garriot and Origin went to great lengths to make their world operate with logical, real life rules and consequences. A vast majority of MMOs have abandoned this concept all together, or they taint it with half measures---like insurance. Insurance is for when your horse tips over a lantern and burns your house down. Not for when you lose your magic sword fighting an orc horde. If you don't want to lose your magic sword, use some operational risk management. If the thought of losing your prized possession is too great, then maybe you should fight one or two orcs instead of 20. Perhaps you should use a non magical item instead of your best gear, and save it for when you are going to war with other players?

Anyone who has played this type of game knows that you don't craft one set of gear and go on your merry way. You craft several gear bags, so that when you die you just go in your bank, grab your premade items, and continue without delay. This has been common practice since 1997, and given the mechanics of LiF, it isn't going to change anytime soon.

The less magic there is, and the closer to real life this game aims to be, the less of a burden there is with losing items. The argument is extremely thin considering the original poster is using mechanics from several games to justify a point that has nothing to do with THIS game.

[Endryju]

this idea would destroy all the game potential!

[Occultus]

Yeah, forget this idea...

+1

[Worldsprayer]

Well I am certainly not an mmo veteran. I play eve online now, used to play Star Wars galaxies, and that's it. And I'm ok with full loot, so long as I know what's coming. If games are only about what you collect, what need is there for different style games? I will be playing to build stuff, and as such simply don't care too much about the loot mechanic. If dieing means losing everything, I'll do exactly what I do in dayz and rust, get good, avoid players at need, and don't die.

[Sting5]

Everyone is speaking about full loot as items. But I started wondering:
Will it be possible to loot someones real estate properties? I mean, break into their homes, steal their loot who sits in there? Burn houses? destroy villages? Just saying...

[Demonic]

Everyone is speaking about full loot as items. But I started wondering:
Will it be possible to loot someones real estate properties? I mean, break into their homes, steal their loot who sits in there? Burn houses? destroy villages? Just saying...

You will not be able to loot storages that are on someone's else's personal claim.

If it's unprotected, you can do whatever you want with it. And of course, if your guilds are in state of war, you can take what you want from that guild members and personal claims doesn't matter in that case.

[Bobik]

You will not be able to loot storages that are on someone's else's personal claim.

If it's unprotected, you can do whatever you want with it. And of course, if your guilds are in state of war, you can take what you want from that guild members and personal claims doesn't matter in that case.

[Sting5]

Then, it seems, for starters it would be a good idea to be a solo player for some time to gather some stuff, because newcomer in a guild might "bump into" a clan war, hence - become a target without willing it. Thanks for info Demonic!