Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Scratchit]

I put the "end game" in quotes because this game isn't like most mainstream games in that you don't have to grind/quest your way to max level before starting what is commonly known as the "end game".

Still, I would argue that we do have to grind our skills. And once that's done, we need to set up the claim(s) for our guild.

Once the town is up, with the castle, and the blacksmith shop, the stables and walls and so on and so on, once it's up, what then?

I say this because (in my opinion) the population in the MMO during this CBT is very low. Seeing as there are no NPCs, I'm assuming that the "end game content" is, by design, supposed to come from interactions with other players and guilds. I'm not really seeing this here, and I assume, and hope, that this is because the population is low.

Let's say those interactions are trade, diplomacy, war and maybe other things too.

You might say I've answered my own question already, that the end game content depends on sandbox elements and that a low population means there is not much end game content, but that wasn't really what I was asking.

What I would like to know, is what incentives are there for players to do any of those thing (and any other sandbox-type elements).

Basically, the experience I'm having so far, is that once everything is built, once all the skills are at least on 90, once all the "chores" are done, people log off because there isn't anything to do.

In short, they grind, they work hard, look around, and disconnect.

Obviously war is a bit of an exception and I would like to point out that last JH was the time when the server population reached it's highest (double what is usually is).

Anyone could go trade, whether by using the game's design or, for example, by using the freedom the game gives us to take anything, travel, and try selling it, or even role play, pick up a cart and travel the land.

I get the idea, what I want to point out as CB Tester is that so far, it's not happening and I don't think the low population is the only reason.

Diplomacy, mostly managed by the leaders of the towns/kingdoms/etc doesn't give much scope for most of the players (appart from in guild discussions about who to ally or who to war).

So, because I know this is a bit of a wall of text, I'll ask again :

Once you grinded your skills and setup your claim, once the 2 hours of JH a week are over, and once your leaders have negotiated alliances, what do you do?

More precisely, what do I do? Me, not a leader, I don't like trading, and though I could pick up my sword and go fight people randomly, I really don't feel like doing that. Does this mean the game is not for me?

Because everywhere I look, and with most people I've talked to, people, now, are logging off not because of the bugs or the lag, but because they feel (wrongly or not) that they have nothing else to do.

[Bleiz]

Defending your lands, claiming more lands, warfare and all the drama related to that.
From what I've heard reaching 100 is quite a feat, so that's another objective. Create exquisite items. Build/defend colonies in other regions to have a steady supply of regional resources, becoming rich, become a feared warrior or murderer. Form a band of bandits robbing and pillaging wherever you go. Or create a police force to make sure your land is devoid of such scums.

You said what you didn't like to do, but didnt say what you liked so it's kinda hard. And at the risk of sounding cliché, I think this is more about the journey than the destination.

[Scratchit]

Defending your lands, claiming more lands, warfare and all the drama related to that.
From what I've heard reaching 100 is quite a feat, so that's another objective. Create exquisite items. Build/defend colonies in other regions to have a steady supply of regional resources, becoming rich, become a feared warrior or murderer. Form a band of bandits robbing and pillaging wherever you go. Or create a police force to make sure your land is devoid of such scums.

You said what you didn't like to do, but didnt say what you liked so it's kinda hard. And at the risk of sounding cliché, I think this is more about the journey than the destination.

hope you don't mind the bullet point approach to my reply, I think it's effective!

Defending your lands

No one is attacking it

claiming more lands

And do what? Build a new town with walls and blacksmith shop, stables etc? What's the point?

warfare and all the drama related to that.

that is fun, but currently, that's 2 JH lasting 1 hour each.

Also I mentioned that in my OP, 2 hours a week : what do you do for the rest of the time?

Actually, I'm changing method:

From what I've heard reaching 100 is quite a feat, so that's another objective. Create exquisite items. Build/defend colonies in other regions to have a steady supply of regional resources, becoming rich, become a feared warrior or murderer. Form a band of bandits robbing and pillaging wherever you go. Or create a police force to make sure your land is devoid of such scums.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but have you played the MMO?

There seem to be a lot of misconceptions in what you wrotes for instances you can't form a band of bandits to rob and pillage wherever you go. You can only pillage during JH.

Anyway, I'll try to present things from another angle just in case you mid understood me.

Currently, people are logging off because there is nothing to do in the game. This could be because the content in this game is provided by other players and the population is low, but I think that people would log off in the same way even with a high population.

What are we supposed to do once we have finished grinding skills and finished building our base?

[Arrakis]

Let's say those interactions are trade, diplomacy, war and maybe other things too.

Generally that's what will be the core of the end game.

Basically, the experience I'm having so far, is that once everything is built, once all the skills are at least on 90, once all the "chores" are done, people log off because there isn't anything to do.

Well, you need to realize that having a castle surrounded by tall, thick walls doesn't necessarily mean that you are going to keep it and live happily ever after. It will all be very fluid and people will want to tear down your walls, either because of their competitive nature, valuable resources that you might be sitting on or just because they don't like you and your guild. People can also band against some big kingdom because their friends have been invaded and turned into a vassal by force. They will declare war on you for different reasons and they will target your monument. So it won't be like you're untouchable and there will be nothing to do. You will have to always be ready because someone might decide that they want to reduce your beautiful city to ashes or just take your castle for themselves. You will always be in danger, doesn't matter if you're some small group in the forest, hiding behind wooden walls or a powerful, advanced kingdom with castle keep and numerous vassals. Alliances will be broken, wars will be waged and strategy will have to be adjusted to the new situation.

In short summary: You will always have to keep your guard up and be ready for the worst, as Life is Feudal. So don't think of taking long breaks with your guild because you think you are safe and there's nothing more to do, because you may be in for a nasty surprise as you'll come back and see everything you worked for either burned to the ground or conquered and taken by someone else. That's your endgame

[En_Dotter]

What you are calling "end game" is what most of my friends consider just the beginning. We are all experienced cRPG and strategus players so that might give u a hint why we feel that way, especially cus of strategus.
In strategus you quickly come to a point where everyone should have high end gear and what is left is to do diplomacy, trade and war. I am well aware of different preferences for players, but since this game strongly revolves around group play, there will be stuff for everyone to do. If for example i am the head of diplomacy for my faction i will do mostly that but i cant do much without organizing with players of other professions. Everyone gets their tasks and everyone works together for a common goal. If you are a builder I might need you to make a forward outpost to increase my chance of avoiding war for example cus i will have more... say... arguments to deter the conflict cus we got an outpost closer to the potential enemy. I need also people to get resources of certain quality in order to trade for something we need. There is always something that needs to be done.
The problem is that, as far as i know, there is no "proper" battle/siege system yet, and its all about judgement hour in mmo. This completely makes the serious aspect of war futile in this game atm. Also, there are not so many players in CBT so you cant expect a lot of interaction outside of small area. That all changes when the devs release the beast.
Depending on your preference, this game will start when it reaches the "end game", cus then wars, diplomacy and trade will dictate the flow of the game and no NPC can enhance that.

[Scratchit]

Let's say those interactions are trade, diplomacy, war and maybe other things too.

Generally that's what will be the core of the end game.

Basically, the experience I'm having so far, is that once everything is built, once all the skills are at least on 90, once all the "chores" are done, people log off because there isn't anything to do.

Well, you need to realize that having a castle surrounded by tall, thick walls doesn't necessarily mean that you are going to keep it and live happily ever after. It will all be very fluid and people will want to tear down your walls, either because of their competitive nature, valuable resources that you might be sitting on or just because they don't like you and your guild. People can also band against some big kingdom because their friends have been invaded and turned into a vassal by force. They will declare war on you for different reasons and they will target your monument. So it won't be like you're untouchable and there will be nothing to do. You will have to always be ready because someone might decide that they want to reduce your beautiful city to ashes or just take your castle for themselves. You will always be in danger, doesn't matter if you're some small group in the forest, hiding behind wooden walls or a powerful, advanced kingdom with castle keep and numerous vassals. Alliances will be broken, wars will be waged and strategy will have to be adjusted to the new situation.

In short summary: You will always have to keep your guard up and be ready for the worst, as Life is Feudal. So don't think of taking long breaks with your guild because you think you are safe and there's nothing more to do, because you may be in for a nasty surprise as you'll come back and see everything you worked for either burned to the ground or conquered and taken by someone else. That's your endgame

hey and thanks for reply, if I understand you correctly, once we've grinded skills and built all there is to build, the gameplay becomes pvp?

If that is the case, doesn't that happen only during JH (ie 2 hours on weekend)?

ie: endgame of LIF:MMO = JH once a week?

[Arrakis]

Why mentioning CBT + JH when talking about the endgame? That doesn't make any sense. JH in MMO is only a placeholder for testing combat. There will be proper war/siege system implemented later. Did you forget?

[Scratchit]

Why mentioning CBT + JH when talking about the endgame? That doesn't make any sense. JH in MMO is only a placeholder for testing combat. There will be proper war/siege system implemented later. Did you forget?

ohhh ok, so in the future, JH will not exist and anyone can siege or attack/pillage whenever they want (or rather whenever they declare war). Sorry, I don't know much about siege / war system.

If that's true, it makes more sense

[Sharana]

Sorry, I don't know much about siege / war system.

You can read some more here to get the idea
what-we-know-about-the-planned-mmo-war-mechanics-t22008/#p91492

About the endgame - it's not here yet, so you don't have the initiative to stay on so to say. There are always expansion, terraforming and building plans. But when we know the wipe will come relatively soon where is the motivation to do it? My guild is finishing a castle keep which is grand project, but that's still more of an exception, many guilds don't even play at all atm.
Then you have trade ... sure you have, in CBT there are no traders posts, no coins and no economy. One of the major aspects of the game is still missing.
So you are left with diplomacy and wars ... sure, but on the 1st real JH during the CBT where sieges were supposed to happen the servers were just not ready for large scale combat. Other then that there is no instanced field battles and no real claim raids, you can't do anything without JH and players can get more action in YO, so again there is no initiative to play much.

TL, dr the endgame is just not here, it will come in OBT (wave 2).

[Scratchit]

Sorry, I don't know much about siege / war system.

You can read some more here to get the idea
what-we-know-about-the-planned-mmo-war-mechanics-t22008/#p91492

About the endgame - it's not here yet, so you don't have the initiative to stay on so to say. There are always expansion, terraforming and building plans. But when we know the wipe will come relatively soon where is the motivation to do it? My guild is finishing a castle keep which is grand project, but that's still more of an exception, many guilds don't even play at all atm.
Then you have trade ... sure you have, in CBT there are no traders posts, no coins and no economy. One of the major aspects of the game is still missing.
So you are left with diplomacy and wars ... sure, but on the 1st real JH during the CBT where sieges were supposed to happen the servers were just not ready for large scale combat. Other then that there is no instanced field battles and no real claim raids, you can't do anything without JH and players can get more action in YO, so again there is no initiative to play much.

TL, dr the endgame is just not here, it will come in OBT (wave 2).

that was helpful thanks, just to make sure I understood correctly :

-> "universal battle window" which basically happens every day at prime time and will make the realm claim vulnerable

-> siege; which any guild can make on an enemy with a 24h delay between declaration and fight and consists of an instanced "minigame" fight in which each team tries to keep control of a place of interest (sounds a bit like "capture the flag?").

I imagine that if you win the siege, the town claim is destroyed which then allows attackers to raid the rest of the claim? (I suppose there will be another fight there).

That sounds pretty exciting, and it's reassuring that this kind of thing is planned for the future.