Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Archaegeo]

So Life is Feudal. I get that, honestly I do.

But I really feel that magically pressing a button and having a personal claim disbanded against owners wishes 24 hours later is kinda lame for a game that claims Feudalism as its base.

So please vote on the options in the attached poll.

The point mostly is that just because a realm sets up beside me, I did not swear fealty to the realm leader nor do I recognize his right to lead just because he builds a monument.

I do recognize a realms right to control who builds in their territory, but also recognize the right of the individual and owner to protect his claim if he is there first. (Note, protect it, not be protected by it).

[Protunia]

Need an option to just attack personal claims with a band of players and end their claim. Since that is part of expanding a Realm or even making a Realm if you want that Land in the first place.

[Archaegeo]

Added option 5

[Avery4life]

This will be crazy, your gunna need allies for sure, not going to be able to be a peaceful hermit.

Im just going to build my house in a damn cave in the most undesirable place i can find, problem solved.

[Archaegeo]

I appreciate needing allies, but I don't appreciate my claim being magically disbanded just because someone builds a pretty rock. <grin>

Come take it from me, you can, you have the people, I suck at fight, but take it from me at least so I have the chance to defend it.

[Protunia]

I think you missed the point, Personal claims have complete protection and risk nothing unlike the other types of claims that can be attacked.

Personal Claims should be able to be attacked at all times regardless from anyone who wants to siege and take that land if they want the kind of status you are seeking.

Just like Towns and Kingdoms.

Personal Claims should be able to be Sieged By a small group of players as well not just required to have 10 players to take them out.

Otherwise If they are going to have protection from attack forever until a realm Forms some day down the road that seems to be a double standard to me.

[Telakh]

This will be crazy, your gunna need allies for sure, not going to be able to be a peaceful hermit.

Im just going to build my house in a damn cave in the most undesirable place i can find, problem solved.

You can't build houses in caves and tunnels

[Avery4life]

I appreciate needing allies, but I don't appreciate my claim being magically disbanded just because someone builds a pretty rock. <grin>

Come take it from me, you can, you have the people, I suck at fight, but take it from me at least so I have the chance to defend it.

Well, i guess they could take land claiming out completely then nobodys safe and everyone looses but the common bandit, heck who follows rules anyways.

Would that make your happy

Added »13 Mar 2014, 18:41

This will be crazy, your gunna need allies for sure, not going to be able to be a peaceful hermit.

Im just going to build my house in a damn cave in the most undesirable place i can find, problem solved.

You can't build houses in caves and tunnels

Nooooooo!

Fine, il build a small hut on top of a mountain and build a wall around the base of the mountain and at the top where my house/hut is.

[Seppuku]

Are there physics to the terraforming? You won't be able to build and floating sky islands right?

[Protunia]

I just have to say all the choices are self serving and do not give up anything from personal claims 100% protectionism against other solo or small groups of players all the while asking for many different kinds of benefits for personal claims against realms.

If you want to change the game to make Personal Claims like Kingdoms without having to have a guild of players then all claims should be under similar rules.

This means personal claims would give up the 100% protection and would be able to be attacked the same way in any of those choices you have listed by anyone who wants the land, ore, etc they are blocking and ( esp #4 ) all players should be allowed to attack personal claims by that logic.

If that is the way you want things then sure I can agree to that, but if you want to keep Personal Claims 100% protected from anyone else except guilds and give them town/realm/kingdom status then I have to say hell no to anything but what Bobik has planned for the game.

Your choices make the game less about the Feudal era as players would just form massive small personal claim area's that cannot be attacked ever and then wipe out any one else trying to build a town.

Why would they even need to make a monument or form anything at all? When they can attack Towns that try to form and have a bunch of personal claims that are 100% safe?

[Telakh]

Archaegeo, how many more threads are you going to start before you will accept the current system?

[Protunia]

He won't he wants the game more like Wurm with bunches of deeds no one can attack all over the map like on the PvE servers.

That's when he will be satisfied when the game is NOT Life is Feudal, but Wurm 3.0.

If we want the game MORE FEUDAL personal claims will not be protected at all.

[Archaegeo]

And I have told you prot I am fine with that.

I just don't want you to be able to take a personal claim by pressing a button.

You guys are the carebears here wanting guilds to be able to take solo claims just by building a monument on a protected personal claim and then booting the surrounding personal claims whose owners you disagree with by pressing a button.

I am fine with personal claims being attackable all of the time with a strong alignment hit if you do it randomly (ie, not a part of a guild).

The alignment system is in to give us a moral compass, to keep honest people honest, it could be used for this purpose too.

And Tel, how many threads? I made one thread that asked if Realms could steal personal claims, the answer to that was yes.

So I started this thread to see if people would prefer that they have to have some risk to do so vice the carebear UNFEUDAL system planned now.

Sure I want this to be Wurm 2.0 in some areas, many people do, the game even compares itself to Wurm, but it is much more and it is full pvp, which I accept.

The thing I don't like, and others do not as well judging from the current voting, is for guilds to be able to take personal claims with no risk or even having to defeat the current claim holder or his property.

Look at the results, 1/4th of the voters so far favor the current planned system, everyone else would like to see something different.

[Telakh]

Look at the results, 1/4th of the voters so far favor the current planned system, everyone else would like to see something different.

Yet all other options are either much more griefable or simply useless.
I am not saying current system is perfect, but it worked great in other projects and I haven't heard a better suggestion yet.

[Seppuku]

The better suggestion is make them attackable by anyone. Maybe put some sort of "raid monument" that anyone can plant to attack a claim. Attacking a claim owned by another player when you are not in a guild should be considered a criminal act though.

[Protunia]

All your choices...

1. keep as is.

2. Boosts solo personal claims, No guild/solo player attacking at will.

3. Boosts solo personal claim, No guild/solo player attacking at will.

4. Boosts solo personal claim, No guild/solo player attacking at will.

5. Boosts solo personal claim, No guild/solo player attacking at will.

All your choices do is try to give personal claims town/realm status without risking anything. As well as give you more power than an Order! (10 player band of players.)

In fact you seek to empower personal claims to the point they will be used to block land, ore,etc..towns and Realms from ever being formed.

You want the ability to attack Towns and Realms and at the same time keep personal claims 100% protected from attacks from anyone. ( have yet to see anything asking for removal of protection. )

I think you need to take a step back and realize this will not be Wurm or even close to it. The only thing that might be even remotely close is terraforming.

You are seeking a large buffer to protect yourself at the expense of the games core features and game play.

When this buffer is added to the 100% protection you have yet to ask be removed in any poll it will in fact cause a major change in everything the game is about and how people will use personal claims.

Like I have said before if you cannot play in the PvP Realm then you should seek out Land that is protected near the central city.

But if you want to be involved in world politics I think you should have to form a Town at least.

Giving Personal Claims more Status and Power than a Country is absurd.

Next you will want to be able to form alliances between personal claims......just watch.

[Hoshiqua]

I think we should make personnale claims attackable by orders, but, unless the personnal claim belongs to a bandit, all the members taking part of the assault loose alignment depending on what they take / destroy.

Personnal claims within Tier 1 monument claim radius should be attackable by the guild with at least a bit less alignment loss.

On the other hand, the only problem that we may encounter with the current planned system is that, if an order wants to build his monument on a land 100% personnal claimed by outsiders of the order, how do they do it ? They got no space to place it, so they just can't take this land !!

[Archaegeo]

Hmm,

I am unsure how else to say I am ok with personal claims being attackable. You would need an alignment hit, but only for the same reason you have one when players get attacked.

I am not in favor of all of those options, they are options presented by others that I compiled into a poll.

The new options do not all put a guild at risk or boost solo claim, they just make so you actually have to take the claim vice pressing a button.

I already plan to rent land near the City, and possibly have a personal claim somewhere out in the boonies (I think you can do both).

This isn't all about me, no matter what you think. This is about getting as many paying players into the game as possible. None of the given options makes them safe, it just makes it so that they do not lose their personal claim from the push of a button.

_____________________________________________________

Added » 13 Mar 2014, 22:28
Oh, and as a side note:
#2 doesn't nothing to strengthen personal claim, a realm monument would be vulnerable under it if being made in the middle of nowhere. Why should realms be protected while building a monument on a personal claim?

#3 does nothing to make a personal realm more safe. It just requires you to take you guys into his claim after your realm monument is up and destroy his personal claim marker.

# 4 would make personal claims stronger, but it wasn't my idea, just presented in the poll

# 5 makes personal claims weaker since they have to be destroyed or absorbed when building the realm monument.

[Protunia]

All options other than what is in place would give personal claims something to boost their standing other than what they have now which is only 100% protection from everyone unless a realm builds a monument over them.

2. monuments can be attacked while building, personal claims have 100% protection status from all but guilds.

3. personal claim monument must be destroyed, personal claims have 100% protection status from all but guilds.

4.monuments can be attacked, personal claims have 100% protection status from all but guilds.

5.monument must be 75% complete and personal claim must be destroyed, personal claims have 100% protection status from all but guilds.

All of those give more protection from guilds and do not give up any protection to lower members of the player base.

In other words they all boost the status of personal claims 2 of them seek town/guild status to attack guilds and 2 of them are a delay tactic of allowing the current system to take place.

Not one of them gives players of the same level or lower any more power against personal claims.

Currently personal claims are lower than towns/realms.

Why shouldn't players at the Same or Lower than personal claims be able to siege and destroy them without an alignment penalty at all if you are asking to allow personal claims this ability against towns/realms?

Why should Bobik change the current System to invite even more different kinds of griefing with personal claims from a single player?

The only thing I might be able to see at all is personal claims must build a claim monument of some kind and that should be destroyed which is #5, that might give some people the feeling of they made their last stand or what ever you are looking for here.

[Frontal]

Wait, personal claims cant be raided?
WTF

I really hope all claims are raidalbe and lootable or else what's the point.

[Protunia]

Wait, personal claims cant be raided?
WTF

You are correct they are 100% safe from attacks currently.

Only if they are within a Kingdoms Realm may they be attacked or Part of a Guilds players.

You can kill the guy if hes not in his walls.

Personal Claim

From 1 up to 250 cells wide. The radius of the personal claim is around 18m radius while having max skill (250 cells).

A plot of land that is the private property of a certain character. All movable and unmovable objects within that type of claim are protected from any damage and can only be used by owner of that claim or other players that have received access rights from the owner.

In the event of a war between claim owner's guild and attacker's guild, objects on a personal claim may be used and damaged.

Trespassing on a personal claim can be punished by a loss of 1 alignment point.

[Archaegeo]

Prot,

Personal claims already have 100% protection all of the time unless a realm monument radius overlaps it.

The options listed do not change that.

This discussion is not about personal claim safety, which is what it sounds like you want to discuss.

This is about making Life is Feudal, Feudal.

Please explain to me how it is Feudal for you to build a monument and suddenly I am magically forced off of my claim??

Any of the other options makes it so that the Realm members have to take feudal action to evict the personal claim holders, or force them to be vassals, that sounds Feudal to me.


For your issue of personal claims being safe from attack, yes, lets change that ALL OF THE TIME (there, its in bold, how else can I say I agree with you). The alignment system would give you a hit for attacking another claim just like it does for attacking another player.

[Arrakis]

Please explain to me how it is Feudal for you to build a monument and suddenly I am magically forced off of my claim??.

This is excacly how this is 'Feudal'. You will be forced to either make your peace with the guild that have taken this area under their control, continue on living there on their terms or leaving this place, simple as that.

[AceTheFlame]

In reality all of these options are pointless. The average "hermit" would still just have their land taken from them. You're just forcing the taker to go through a few extra steps.

Option 2: The average player is not going to succeed in attacking a monument while it's under construction.

Option 3: They drop the monument and steamroll you. The average player is going to take as much stuff as they can and run before they are dry looted.

Option 4: Gives too much power to personal claims. If you want to go to war with someone, you should already have an army.

Option 5: This should be left between the owner and leader. You don't need mechanics to be involved.

Most of these options give the illusion of fighting for your land.

There will be guilds that house individuals as well as others that purge the filth that litter their lands. When you see a guild taking over, go into negotiations with them. Or, settle on land where the Lord will not mind you being there(though it'll probably be at cost).

[Protunia]

Its a trade off Arch....in real Feudalism anyone could wack you out if you were not in a Kingdom at anytime.

In the game you are given 100% protection to get your skills up learn things and FIND a Kingdom and become part of a group.

I mean I am all for making things more feudal and just ripping out the 100% protection and making personal claims able to be destroyed.

I just can't see boosting their status or giving them any more recognition or honor and keeping the 100% protection bit.

All the other types of Claims have Risks of being attacked daily.

[Seppuku]

Its a trade off Arch....in real Feudalism anyone could wack you out if you were not in a Kingdom at anytime.

In the game you are given 100% protection to get your skills up learn things and FIND a Kingdom and become part of a group.

I mean I am all for making things more feudal and just ripping out the 100% protection and making personal claims able to be destroyed.

I just can't see boosting their status or giving them any more recognition or honor and keeping the 100% protection bit.

All the other types of Claims have Risks of being attacked daily.

I just want you to understand there WILL be guilds who's sole purpose is to drive unguilded players from the game using this Monument building forced eviction mechanic. Maybe in the end it's just better to make everyone attackable at any time rather than let new players develop a false sense of security only to be griefed by a monument building guild when they are afk.

[AceTheFlame]

I just want you to understand there WILL be guilds who's sole purpose is to drive unguilded players from the game using this Monument building forced eviction mechanic. Maybe in the end it's just better to make everyone attackable at any time rather than let new players develop a false sense of security only to be griefed by a monument building guild when they are afk.

Of course there will be, but that would be a small % of the population. Most guild leaders will use that opportunity to gain from it. Kicking everyone off your land is not really the smartest decision. I see more guilds having settlers pay in resources and/or coin, instead of just kicking them out just because.


This would work out once the game is established. The idiot guilds will make themselves known, while the friendlier ones will do just the same. Newbs will know where they can safely set up and where they can't.

At least if the economy isn't broken. If it is then it will just be an open world PvP arena and nobody will be safe. Otherwise a random settler will have value to a growing empire.

[Telakh]

*sigh* guys, you are do deeply mistaken...

Alignment won't save anyone if I create a band of twink criminal characters to raid hermits around the guild.

I just want you to understand there WILL be guilds who's sole purpose is to drive unguilded players from the game using this Monument building forced eviction mechanic.

There will be NO such guilds because monument construction time, efforts and price can't be compared to what you gain from removing hermit's claim. He will move out all the valuables and the guild will gain nothing. If the claim is abandoned, it will decay sooner than you build a monument.



Personal claim is a TINY PLOT OF LAND. It takes at least 3 months to reach it's max size of 15x15 tiles and you start with 3x3 or something like that.
There is no space to build castle walls, big houses or even a quarter of necessary infrastructure. You can't unite few plots in to one as they must have space between borders.

Personal claims are meant to be a private farm or a place to keep you belongings on a guild land. You can't play normally if you can't construct all the kilns, forges, anvils, windmills, tree-farms, barns, stables, and other constructions. And how are you going to do that on a 5x5 spot????

You speak like you are loosing a castle while the best you can loose would be a shed/shack and tiny palisade that can't even protect you from arrows and takes 2 hours to be constructed.




Stop this nonsence please!

[Archaegeo]

Tel,

You don't get that they wont do it to take his stuff, they will do it for his tears of frustration and hoping to make him ragequit.

That's what griefers want, stuff is just a bonus.

[Telakh]

Since there is no stuff to be looted, that virtualy-griefed (I don't think this situation will ever happen) hermit can't loose anything significant, and so I state that people who can't organise themselves in to a guild (or join, or rent land) should stay away from cooperative game and rather play MMO games that do not force players to play in cooperation mode.

Kingdom has a right to remove one's land title and that is more enough for RP.

No idiot would build an expencive guild monuments, that take effort of an entire guild to be constructed, (and maintained) just to destroy 2 wooden sheds. If they wouldabandon the guild - it is a waste of resources. If they would keep it - it is a waste of money for upkeep.
There are many more important and interesting things to do in game.