Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Hodo]

I am a history buff, and a medieval recreationist, I would say reinactor, but I don't like reinacting anything.

(I am on the right)

I have personally studied Talhoffer and my favorite, Le Jeu De La Hache. Which I admit I am horrible with a polearm. But am quite good with a weapon and shield.

My biggest fear with this game is that it will try to be to realistic or become like Mortal Online and ignore everything just to draw in the casual player and pvp ganker with deep pockets.

I dont want to see another game where they say they are striving for realism only to have some guy in full plate run around like he is sitting at the bottom of the ocean with lead weights on his feet. Or chainmail armor being a joke and useless other than for a fashion show. Or one of my personal favorites, pole axes are slower than anything ever made.... HAHAHAHA having been on the recieving end of a few, they are not slow in the right hands.

So if anyone who has actually played the game give me some idea of what direction they are headed, so I can decide now if I want to put money and effort to this project or continue looking.

[Ramaraunt]

So if anyone who has actually played the game give me some idea of what direction they are headed, so I can decide now if I want to put money and effort to this project or continue looking.

You seem to be an expert in mideval combat, so maybe the devs should ask you for direction.

[Hodo]

So if anyone who has actually played the game give me some idea of what direction they are headed, so I can decide now if I want to put money and effort to this project or continue looking.

You seem to be an expert in mideval combat, so maybe the devs should ask you for direction.

Not an expert, I still have much to learn. On a scale of 1-20, I am a 15.

[DeepComet5581]

Close-quarters combat - Eurgh.

I prefer to keep the taffers at a distance with a good old fashioned bow & arrow.

Regional champion, right here.

May your Steel be sharp
~DC

[Hodo]

Doing some reading on the wiki, and I am seeing somethings that should be dropped from the game or just changed.

First and most glaring to me...

The Scimitar.

Scimitars were a later 15th century invention. Not something you would see in this timeframe. If you really want a curved blade of "Islamic" styling, replace the scimitar with the Kilij which is still VERY late period, or perhaps the Shamshir which would be a better choice.

Next the pole axe...
It is technically a halberd, well the one you show in your image.
This is a VERY complicated weapon to classify. As it has a spear point on the head, a hammer back, an axe head on the oppossite of the hammer, and another spike on the bottom called the cue. It was the most versatile weapon of the middle ages. And they really werent that long, most ranged between 1.5m - 2m in length. The general rule of thumb with them was they were one hand taller than the user.

I am really interested to see how they work out how weapons will be affected by armor. I would hate to see the common misconception that the "long bow" was the end all be all weapon.

[Siegbert]

Doing some reading on the wiki, and I am seeing somethings that should be dropped from the game or just changed.

First and most glaring to me...

The Scimitar.

Scimitars were a later 15th century invention. Not something you would see in this timeframe. If you really want a curved blade of "Islamic" styling, replace the scimitar with the Kilij which is still VERY late period, or perhaps the Shamshir which would be a better choice.

Next the pole axe...
It is technically a halberd, well the one you show in your image.
This is a VERY complicated weapon to classify. As it has a spear point on the head, a hammer back, an axe head on the oppossite of the hammer, and another spike on the bottom called the cue. It was the most versatile weapon of the middle ages. And they really werent that long, most ranged between 1.5m - 2m in length. The general rule of thumb with them was they were one hand taller than the user.

I am really interested to see how they work out how weapons will be affected by armor. I would hate to see the common misconception that the "long bow" was the end all be all weapon.

I like me some medieval history nerd

Welcome welcome!

[DeepComet5581]

Doing some reading on the wiki, and I am seeing somethings that should be dropped from the game or just changed.

First and most glaring to me...

The Scimitar.

Scimitars were a later 15th century invention. Not something you would see in this timeframe. If you really want a curved blade of "Islamic" styling, replace the scimitar with the Kilij which is still VERY late period, or perhaps the Shamshir which would be a better choice.

Next the pole axe...
It is technically a halberd, well the one you show in your image.
This is a VERY complicated weapon to classify. As it has a spear point on the head, a hammer back, an axe head on the oppossite of the hammer, and another spike on the bottom called the cue. It was the most versatile weapon of the middle ages. And they really werent that long, most ranged between 1.5m - 2m in length. The general rule of thumb with them was they were one hand taller than the user.

I am really interested to see how they work out how weapons will be affected by armor. I would hate to see the common misconception that the "long bow" was the end all be all weapon.

I think the use of the word "Scimitar" is just a bastardization in this instance. There were plenty of 'Scimitar-like' swords from the Abbasid era like, as you mention, the Persian Shamshir.

At this early stage in the game, best to just say "Scimitar" than have to do research into what exactly the design they have should be called.

A Halberd is more renaissance - You'd probably be more expecting of a Glaive (Which is listed in the wiki) or Voulge.

The Long Bow was a be all end all... for bows. They were one of the only bows that could deliver an arrow with enough force to penetrate plate armour (Albeit usually only the thinner steel on the limbs), and can shoot an arrow up to 300m (My longest shot was 257m).

It's not so much the bow, but the arrow that makes a difference.

May your Steel be sharp.
~DC

[Hodo]

The pole axe pictured in the wiki is a halberd.

As for the long bow.... how do I put this.

When King Henry V won at Agincourt, it wasn't due to the long bow, but to the long bow man. Most of the French forces funneled towards the English center, which is where Henry had all of his knights and nobles, which displayed their hareldry proudly. During the Hundred Years War, it was common practice for one noble or knight to capture an enemy knight or noble and ransom him back to his family. This only applied to nobles and knights, not to peasants, archers, or men-at-arms.

The French made the monumental mistake of knighting a large number of men prior to this battle, these men were anxious to make a name for themselves in battle, and earn a bit of profit in the process. This mated with the fact that it had been an unusually wet year, heavy rains and such, left the ground soaked. Which for most light troops was not an issue, but for the heavily armored French forces this was a nightmare. Then to add insult to injury, the English funneled the French through tight terrain to further limit their numbers advantage and force them to trample over already bad ground and make it worse. Many French knights just were trampled by their own forces pushing to get to the front.

The English longbow often failed to kill or even stop the French knight at this time, but the longbowman wasn't as heavily armored as the French or restrained by most of the "gentleman" forms of combat. They werent concerned with taking prisoners for ransom, they knew if they lost their lives were forfiet, so they used every trick they knew in close combat. It was ugly, messy and brutal, something the French knights were not prepaired for. They were jumped on dragged down into the sticky mud by the lighter equipped longbowmen and killed with short side swords, hatchets, hammers and bullocks daggers.

While the Longbow was a formidable weapon, it was still very limited in its ability to kill a man in full plate armor. The problem wasn't in the longbow itself, it was in the ammunition used. While the bow could be drawn to 200lbs at 38" it was still firing a wooden shaft tipped with an iron or lead tip. Both of those metals are softer than any of the armor used during that time period. It would be akin to firing a nerf ball from a cannon at a tank. Sure it is moving 2000ft per second, but it still isn't hard enough to get through the metal.

[Hodo]

There is a documented case of when Italian mercenaries used by the French during the Hundred Years War, actually rode through the English Longbowmen lines unphased by the long bow fire even at nearly point blank range. They slaughtered nearly a hundred of them and kept going through to the English baggage train which was behind the lines and began looting... which ultimately cost the French their victory, but that is the risk you take in hiring mercenaries.

[Hodo]

Here is a great little video on actual armor used in the 15th century and how to put it on. Granted they are taking there time, a trained squire or page can get a knight in armor in 10minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HwRqJwXXcQ

[Beeskee]

It would definitely be nice to see some actually realistic realism in this game. Many games get so many different elements wrong that folks think those things work that way now.

It happens in games with modern themes too, how many different games have you folks seen where it misrepresents something like a shotgun's range?

I've only had a little experience RL at hitting someone in light armor with a training sword (aka a stick lol) but even that was enough to put it all into a new perspective. All the different armor types were used because they were effective against different things. It's more like rock paper scissors than it is leather < chain < plate. Different weapons were used differently, even if they were visually similar. And especially multi-purpose or multi-head weapons. we should be able to use all the heads/purposes.

[Danielb]

Here is a great little video on actual armor used in the 15th century and how to put it on. Granted they are taking there time, a trained squire or page can get a knight in armor in 10minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HwRqJwXXcQ

Was a good watch, thanks for that.

[Haladmer]

There is a documented case of when Italian mercenaries used by the French during the Hundred Years War, actually rode through the English Longbowmen lines unphased by the long bow fire even at nearly point blank range. They slaughtered nearly a hundred of them and kept going through to the English baggage train which was behind the lines and began looting... which ultimately cost the French their victory, but that is the risk you take in hiring mercenaries.

Mind sharing that reference? Only "looting" I've read reports on were in the countryside (usually village raiding or during movements between engagements) so would like to read more on it. Both sides liked to BS their claims about how the other side were no threat, but it was still a long and bloody war.

As for halberds, yeah tricky weapon to classify. Keep it simple "staves", true "polearms" tend to be much longer than 2m. But even weapon experts tend to argue on the details, so your mileage may vary. Just too many names for the same weapon, based solely on where you are standing while discussing it.

The spear tip wasn't really a focus point in the design until later, but works wonders in trapping other weapons when you parry them out and down. Done correctly, your hands are in position to draw a short sword, knife, etc... and remove the problem in front of you.

And as Hodo said, in a decently trained person's hands, they are a lot faster than you might think. It's all about small motions to deflect, and carry through to clear the space between you and your opponent.

Spent a couple years with a group doing renaissance recreation/reenactment who had a couple certified weapons trainers. Was one of my favorite weapons to train with.

[Kibato]

Thanks for the history lesson, guys

[Hodo]

There is a documented case of when Italian mercenaries used by the French during the Hundred Years War, actually rode through the English Longbowmen lines unphased by the long bow fire even at nearly point blank range. They slaughtered nearly a hundred of them and kept going through to the English baggage train which was behind the lines and began looting... which ultimately cost the French their victory, but that is the risk you take in hiring mercenaries.

Mind sharing that reference? Only "looting" I've read reports on were in the countryside (usually village raiding or during movements between engagements) so would like to read more on it. Both sides liked to BS their claims about how the other side were no threat, but it was still a long and bloody war.

Sorry was busy.

But it was at the Battle of Verneuil in 1424. The English won the battle but the Italian knight was unphased by the longbow.