Removal of The Royal Anus

Have a suggestion or an idea for Life is Feudal: MMO ? Post it here!

Wigster600
 
Posts: 139
Joined: 24 Feb 2014, 14:01
Location: The God's own County! Yorkshire!

Removal of The Royal Anus

Post by Wigster600 » 18 Apr 2014, 20:14

Hi, if you've played the mod Persistant World for Mount & Blade Warband like me, then you've most certainly come across a lord whom is a complete cock end, whines like a brat and abuses his power.

The ability to set constitutions like the Magna Carta, preventing lords in law to empower the people or not have a constitution and rule with an iron fist.

Say the populace has become tired of the crule lord and decide to have a revolt. How about there being a diplomatic stance which a faction can be in when this occurs?

Say the stance is called Civil war, and outside factions can recognise sovereingity of a side and give support or join them in the conflict to depose of the Royal Anus.

Lords could surrender to the peasants the agree to their terms or dispatch the rebels or fight to the bitter end with the old "it's mah divine right." line.

Or the lord is asassinated by his second in command whom people have little loyalty for and revolt again him.

Just pulling up ideas, might add a few. :D
Image


Siegbert
Alpha Tester
 
Posts: 1368
Joined: 02 Nov 2013, 15:15
Location: Germany

Re: Removal of The Royal Anus

Post by Siegbert » 18 Apr 2014, 21:24

I'm playing PW and luckily there is this neat little feature to vote your leader. Now in PW factions are much less persistent than in LiF where one faction is presented by one actual guild, I guess.

So voting your lord could be a bit more complex, I guess. There could also be proxy leads if the lead isn't online.

User avatar
Flannery
Alpha Tester
 
Posts: 149
Joined: 05 Feb 2014, 08:25
Location: Norway

Re: Removal of The Royal Anus

Post by Flannery » 18 Apr 2014, 22:46

Well to be honest....

If he is a Royal Anus, people will leave and join other kingdoms... and his Royal Anus's Kingdom will be wounded and a easy catch for a larger Kingdom... Simple as that...

There's no permadeath so assassination would not work at all.
Putting in to much mechanics like these would really again be holding the players hand - and it is better that the actual kingdoms or guilds that can manage this by its own, will be the ones that prosper.

If the leader or the king is an Royal Anus - he will loose his allies and be alone. Or he will be allies with other Royal Anus's and form a Royal Anus Kingdom. If you as a peasant or serf do not like to live there - Move to the Royal Awesomness's kingdom instead, and live happily ever after :)
"The enemy of my enemy - is my friend"

Image

"Tides of War" Pre Alpha Videos
http://www.tidesofwargame.com


Zathurus
Alpha Tester
 
Posts: 250
Joined: 15 Apr 2014, 01:28

Re: Removal of The Royal Anus

Post by Zathurus » 19 Apr 2014, 03:28

I think what would really add to the playability of factions/clans, and the leaders of those clans, would be if they are 'created' by where you choose to locate.

Clans and factions would have to have a 'town' where NPCs can work in shops and farms they build, within some distance of each other. So to be a member of a clan, you have to build at least one claimable location within some set distance of other clan members. The idea of city states, both realistic and feudal.

Then when clans and alliances would form 'city states' they would have to guard the ever expanding boarders with hired guards(Clan Maintenance fee) and walls(auto built and maintained over time from fee), making larger clans more expensive. Those guards would also stop any civil war.

It also would make the leadership of the clan better and more playable, since if some didn't pay clan fee, others could still make up the difference in cost. Although if the cost was not paid by the clan, the entire clan could lose its perimeter security and be easier to 'raid' by other clans, and more importantly, it would make legal inside clan fighting between members properties.

When a wall is up, someone can be expelled and forced to leave the area by leaders(loss of protection, and attack able by other members), but only with the wall down can players raid other players in a city state, including attacks on leaders farms, and that would lead to a high rate of NPC peasant defections

People could of coarse pick up and move, and there loyal(contented) NPC peasants and packed buildings would go with them, either to there own single place, or to some other clan. (moving castles and tunnels would be a magic function)

Then if the clan or faction has a bad leader, first people would stop paying taxes to that group, then when it falls below a level, a civil war would be created.



That makes the entire 'clan order' based on if the fee can be maintained to hire 'special guards'. And if the leader is an ass, he won't be able to raise the fees, and that will put the clan in a state of civil war. (note this is the current 'money feudal system many are using in society today, where they argue against government of democracy)

It makes the 'noble' of a city state have to keep his members happy enough to be willing to be taxed, for mutual protection by hiring guards to maintain security. That includes the clan outer perimeter(military), and that also determines having enough enforcement inside city that make PVP against other clan property by clan member difficult(police) or only night thievery not actual plundering.

Of coarse the leadership could put any member on 'non protected' status'(after a warning time), to 'then plunder them'.

The leadership, and those set as 'protected' could not be plundered, and only if the leadership did not have enough to pay security daily fee as a game mechanism, would then everybody including them be able to be plundered.

No fee paid to keep clan running, anyone can be plundered.

Fee paid for everyone, (even those on non protected list) and leader can set who is safe, and who can be plundered in clan, to collect taxes for clan fee if someone isn't paying and isn't moving.

It would really match the autocratic form of feudal systems, and would require a just form of leadership to keep players in the clan, and paying taxes.

(That current system today is often referred to as The Umbrella System, where keeping someone out of the rain(hardship) is protection from a feudal lord, although it is really a feudal system)

So the balance of 'tax collecting' including plundering someone that has not paid fees to collect a tax or to get them to move from clan, would be part of the management of a clan/faction.

It is both realistic, feudal, and much of the current processes used in many feudal system in the world today.

Zathurus


And clans and guilds are not actually the same thing.


A guild is a group of members with like minded goals, not geographic location.

And a clan or faction is a group of people in the same area, with mutual protection.

They actually are different ideas, and you acutually could have both in a game.

A guild is joining an idea that only needs a guild hall (free masons, elks, eagles, various political groups, vfw, and various other groups.) and have no actual geographic center.

A faction or alliance is administrating a local area for protection, and various services. Town District, sector, City, State, all fit into that idea.

Also guilds often are secret and reputation is only important among fellow members, since then they don't need protection in guild versus guild issues since nobody knows if they are in a guild or not, thieving guilds is a classic example.

And factions are mostly public, since they have to actually protect land based on some area. And need to present there reputation as part of there defense.

So you could have both clans/city states and guilds. Then you would have the mechanism of secret guilds, taking over city state administrative functions in secret, by trying to get leadership roles.




And on a personal note, if they try to set you as unprotected because you refuse to go on some silly crusade(a guild function not a state function) You can then get the rest of the clan to side with you, and when there treasury is empty, reform the clan by plundering civil war against the former leaders.

Note idea of guilds and City states being different is idea of separation of church and state, since religions match the guild format also.

Highlander Forever Young
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWFMHj60OvY


Siegbert
Alpha Tester
 
Posts: 1368
Joined: 02 Nov 2013, 15:15
Location: Germany

Re: Removal of The Royal Anus

Post by Siegbert » 19 Apr 2014, 05:28

There will be no NPCs.


Telakh
Alpha Tester
 
Posts: 688
Joined: 06 Oct 2011, 04:59
Location: Two steps from Hell

Re: Removal of The Royal Anus

Post by Telakh » 19 Apr 2014, 09:11

It was said before - there will be no way to remove the guild leader unless he resigns or gives away his account. Want to change the leader - make a new guild.
ImageYou are entering    Time ParadoxImage

User avatar
Flannery
Alpha Tester
 
Posts: 149
Joined: 05 Feb 2014, 08:25
Location: Norway

Re: Removal of The Royal Anus

Post by Flannery » 19 Apr 2014, 10:05

@Zathurus
Although your idea is very well elaborated on and would fit a single player game or even a NON sandbox MMORPG very well - I think you must understand that they are far from viable for LiF.

At least if you have read the visions for this game by the dev's and all the numerous threads where this has been addressed before.

The whole point by LiF is to have no NPC's at all and leave almost any choice only up to how players can make those choices by living in that world and having to interact with the actual other people to get something done.

The only talk about NPC's by the Dev's has been that there may be a few in the starter city to work as vendor for the fresh spawned players starting up and in need of some vendor to sell off starter resources to get some in-game gold/currency.

There has also been talk from the Dev's about maybe allowing NPC's to work as a vendor in your own player crafted trading house.

So to dream of NPC town watch guards and a peasant NPC population and so on, its just not going to happen in LiF.

The same with the guilds, towns and kingdoms.
A guild is a guild/band at first - then can choose to grow and become a town (if they have the resources and the in-flow of people).
The guild towns then can decide to become allies with other guild towns - forming a Kingdom.

How the guilds are run within should be of no concern of game mechanics - and they must deal with all their policies as they see fit with actual communication. Some will manage, and some will not. That is the way of life.

The same goes for the guilds that grow to become towns.

When it comes to Kingdoms, it is up to the allied guilds/towns to internally decide how that Kingdom will be set up government-wise, and if there is to be a single king/queen in it is up to them to figure out.

Again - the game should not dictate how they can do all of these things, when they can more than well enough do it themselves with the few mechanics available.

You will have to put effort into being a guild/town/kingdom leader in LiF - and your skills as a communicator, diplomat, enforcer or even tyrant will decide how your faction flourishes - or not...

This is what LiF is about from what I read from the Dev's (as long as I have not completely got it wrong... :D )

To dream of a NPC populated "Settlers-like" game where you also have players living in that persistent world - is just not what this game is about.

The aim is for a game everything is as player driven as even possible.

And frankly - that's what makes it so interesting to me personally :Yahoo!: :beer:

**EDIT: just fixed a few typos as i was originally writing on my phone - and some things got auto corrected to something wrong... :pardon: **
Last edited by Flannery on 19 Apr 2014, 14:10, edited 3 times in total.
"The enemy of my enemy - is my friend"

Image

"Tides of War" Pre Alpha Videos
http://www.tidesofwargame.com


Wigster600
 
Posts: 139
Joined: 24 Feb 2014, 14:01
Location: The God's own County! Yorkshire!

Re: Removal of The Royal Anus

Post by Wigster600 » 19 Apr 2014, 11:59

Siegbert wrote:There will be no NPCs.


People seem to keep forgetting this rather easily

____________________________________________________________________________________
Added » 19 Apr 2014, 14:46

Though I'll add to the conversation that the idea of voting your leader kind of contradicts the games name, democracy isn't feudalistic.

Image
Image


Siegbert
Alpha Tester
 
Posts: 1368
Joined: 02 Nov 2013, 15:15
Location: Germany

Re: Removal of The Royal Anus

Post by Siegbert » 19 Apr 2014, 14:01

Wigster600 wrote:Though I'll add to the conversation that the idea of voting your leader kind of contradicts the games name, democracy isn't feudalistic.


But feudal kingdoms were aristocratic rather than absolutistic.
The Holy Roman Empire and the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth both had an elective monarchy.


Wigster600
 
Posts: 139
Joined: 24 Feb 2014, 14:01
Location: The God's own County! Yorkshire!

Re: Removal of The Royal Anus

Post by Wigster600 » 19 Apr 2014, 14:07

wasn't poland a constitutional monarchy rather than a Feudalistic system? And the HRE was lead by aristocratic families each in control of a state voting for whichever head of state they wanted to be in charge of the entire HRE? I understand it'll be tricky to implement an aristocracy into this game somehow, but I feel it still kind of defeats the games purpose if it's not feudalism, perhaps having different goverment types could contribute to certain diplomatic or social situations.
Image


Siegbert
Alpha Tester
 
Posts: 1368
Joined: 02 Nov 2013, 15:15
Location: Germany

Re: Removal of The Royal Anus

Post by Siegbert » 19 Apr 2014, 14:28

And the HRE was lead by aristocratic families each in control of a state voting for whichever head of state they wanted to be in charge of the entire HRE?


Yes, but the point is that in a feudal system the monarch had only as much power as the majority of lords below him granted him. He couldn't rule like Louis IVX not caring about other noblemen in his state.
The HRE was special to a certain degree because the elective nature of the monarchy was actually codified while in other countries dynasties changed because of political murder or civil wars.

I understand it'll be tricky to implement an aristocracy into this game somehow


I look at it that way:
like in Mount&Blade singleplayer every player is a nobleman and thus has a voice in the political sphere. You can be a loyal vassal and do everything your king wants you to and get rewarded accordingly or you can work against your liege and even aspire the throne for yourself.


Wigster600
 
Posts: 139
Joined: 24 Feb 2014, 14:01
Location: The God's own County! Yorkshire!

Re: Removal of The Royal Anus

Post by Wigster600 » 19 Apr 2014, 14:30

Would the lord be able to set ranks, and allow only however many ranks he wants to be able to vote? That could be an ideal solution to this.
Image


Zathurus
Alpha Tester
 
Posts: 250
Joined: 15 Apr 2014, 01:28

Re: Removal of The Royal Anus

Post by Zathurus » 20 Apr 2014, 05:05

Siegbert wrote:There will be no NPCs.


Any bonus for having any equipment can be seen as the same thing as an NPC.

Any rule where a fence protects an area is the same thing as NPC guards. So the mecanism based on the thread topic still all work either as 'game mechanics' or NPC villagers.

So weather there are people walking around saying the stuff, or if the game implements the same structure, all the comments still work.

You could lose your 'town protection' if set on unprotected after a warning by a clan leader. and you could lose some abiliity to 'craft better' or 'store things better' or could lose some 'equipment' in any of those cases that would be the same thing as losing an NPC villager that leaves due to actions such as unsafe or unpaid.

Even the quests to get equipment is similar and an emulation of NPC villagers. Since the bonuses equipment given is an emulation of someone working there as a peasant or hired worker.

________________________________________________________________________________________
Added » 20 Apr 2014, 06:21

Flannery wrote:@Zathurus
Although your idea is very well elaborated on and would fit a single player game or even a NON sandbox MMORPG very well - I think you must understand that they are far from viable for LiF.



I see where you would see NPC villagers like Settlers, I agree that is not the idea I was thinking of, but is the effect as in the comments I made. My comment used the wrong noun, after thinking about it.

You can replace NPC villager with any equipment or skill that can be 'effected' by PVP or PVE. Same formula. APC assistant player character. And currently I would presume that is emulated by crafting bonuses or required to have an item to craft. (make a forge a forge with an animated blacksmith that can give quests, but is same thing as having a forge, at higher levels, he would help speed up crafting, currently emulated by equipment alone, at lower levels he would help train skills, that is the current emulation in games, without the animated character.)

So if you build faster with some item, or only can quarry fast with some tools, that emulates having 'help' even if not seen in game.

So replace the NPC villagers I mentioned with the idea that people can have skill to craft and build, lowered and raised by internal strife in a clan, or clan leadership taxes. Or by nearby PVE, or by PVP.

For instance a fence that protects your property is an emulation of player hired guards (I called them NPCs, which technically is not correct, since they are player managed), even if the guards are not shown in the game. It was an error in lingo.


Although I agree the villagers of Settler would not be good, I was thinking of a few just to give a town flavor and some quests, but not to work for the 'game' as who sells everything, players would have to craft, but crafting would be done by eq and villagers helping, or with no NPCS, with bonuses by having better equipment to craft with.

The idea is to add flavor by having animated figures that are APC assitant player charcters, where they show how the 'bonuses' crafting equipment and some activies(saw mill, stone quarry) givesn to players is applied. They are not NPCs that work and exist for the game itself. That is probably the error in explaining it.

The mecanics are the same either way, as long as we both agree, the NPCs are player based, not game based, so that people have to craft the items.

no merchants selling all the items, players must build them, but that building of items is shown through APC to add flavor to a castle a player makes, would be sad to have a castle empty of people.

Does that make sense. I am not saying NPC, I am saying Player assistants. So I used the wrong term.

Replace NPC with Stat and crafting bonuses for equipment, and it would make more sense.



To put together the wall of text posts, in a more concise way.

Summary
Instead of NPCs, have it so that a clan leader can effect skill bonuses for crafting as a tax, or directly as a resource. And if clan fee is not paid by leader for clan protection, resources and equipment(skill bonuses) can be plundered.

And have it where PVE and PVP conditions effect equipment to craft bonuses

And payment of 'clan fee' by leader, or clan leader edict against a clan member, and or 'strife in clan' (civil war) leads to loss of perimeter defense currently emulated as a fence, for player structures inside the clan boundaries.


Image


Siegbert
Alpha Tester
 
Posts: 1368
Joined: 02 Nov 2013, 15:15
Location: Germany

Re: Removal of The Royal Anus

Post by Siegbert » 20 Apr 2014, 08:58

Zathurus wrote:
Siegbert wrote:There will be no NPCs.


Any bonus for having any equipment can be seen as the same thing as an NPC.

Any rule where a fence protects an area is the same thing as NPC guards. So the mecanism based on the thread topic still all work either as 'game mechanics' or NPC villagers.


Well, no. An NPC is a non-playable character not some kind of mechanism whatsoever.
I just don't want "bots" crowding my player-only game. I hate that in nearly any online game.
When I see a human in the game I want to know that there's an actual human controlling him.

About the rest: sorry, didn't read. Write shorter posts.

User avatar
Flannery
Alpha Tester
 
Posts: 149
Joined: 05 Feb 2014, 08:25
Location: Norway

Re: Removal of The Royal Anus

Post by Flannery » 20 Apr 2014, 11:05

There will be no PvE or quests either - Only PvE in the game will be the possibility to hunt game for food and other resources.

The vibrant villagers you speak of will simply be other players. Thats the whole point of the game ;)
"The enemy of my enemy - is my friend"

Image

"Tides of War" Pre Alpha Videos
http://www.tidesofwargame.com


Wigster600
 
Posts: 139
Joined: 24 Feb 2014, 14:01
Location: The God's own County! Yorkshire!

Re: Removal of The Royal Anus

Post by Wigster600 » 20 Apr 2014, 12:46

Wigster600 wrote:Would the lord be able to set ranks, and allow only however many ranks he wants to be able to vote? That could be an ideal solution to this.


Bringing this to the front...
Image


Siegbert
Alpha Tester
 
Posts: 1368
Joined: 02 Nov 2013, 15:15
Location: Germany

Re: Removal of The Royal Anus

Post by Siegbert » 20 Apr 2014, 13:38

Wigster600 wrote:
Wigster600 wrote:Would the lord be able to set ranks, and allow only however many ranks he wants to be able to vote? That could be an ideal solution to this.


Bringing this to the front...


Sounds a bit over complicated, though. I'm pretty sure guilds will make up their own rank system according to their lore.
I'm actually quite okay with the lord resigning. In Persistent World mod hardly anybody acutally wants to do the job.
When the faction has a leader most people seem to be okay with it.

In LiF I guess most factions/kingdoms will be run by out of game guilds/clans anyway who will determine their leader in other ways. There wouldn't be a necessity to cut him off in the game... If he just refuses to step down everybody else can leave, found a new faction declare war on him and get their stuff back :D


Wigster600
 
Posts: 139
Joined: 24 Feb 2014, 14:01
Location: The God's own County! Yorkshire!

Re: Removal of The Royal Anus

Post by Wigster600 » 20 Apr 2014, 17:21

I still think it would help alot, more so then have every single faction including the lowliest serfs to be allowed to vote, it would take away the whole council of nobles theme.
Image

User avatar
Flannery
Alpha Tester
 
Posts: 149
Joined: 05 Feb 2014, 08:25
Location: Norway

Re: Removal of The Royal Anus

Post by Flannery » 20 Apr 2014, 18:25

Wigster600 wrote:I still think it would help alot, more so then have every single faction including the lowliest serfs to be allowed to vote, it would take away the whole council of nobles theme.


The thing is - If you implement such a mechanic in the game, every guild will have to follow a set of rules or mechanics dictated by the game. And that might not suit all the guilds.

Therefore it is better to not have it as a game mechanism, and rather let the guilds sort that out as they wish themselves.

I am sure some guild mechanisms will be in the game though, as the guild leader will probably be the one who sets taxes and hands out premissions out and so on. But the full details of what the Dev's will land on when it comes to this has not yet been 100% decided on yet, or fully revealed.

My personal opinion though is to keep it to a bare minimum of mechanisms - and leave it up to the guilds to create the diversity that will make it interesting to join or choose to stay away from them ;)

With mechanisms also comes restrictions - and if a guild is not able to manage such things without game mechanics holding their hands - maybe that guild will - and SHOULD fail... And in the end, is not that more realistic? Bad leadership or organization normally should lead to failure... ;)
"The enemy of my enemy - is my friend"

Image

"Tides of War" Pre Alpha Videos
http://www.tidesofwargame.com

Return to Suggestions and Ideas