Life is Feudal Official Forum

[Sargon]

inb4 mmo lif filled by just pvpers while pvers and crafters will have their nice and safe private server to enjoy hours and hours of craft and hunting with no issues.

even if you give them a 2x2 kms map, they will stay there, they will not take the risk to play with potential pkers around.

and the main think about mmos is about playing with everyone, since the very first moment. not trying builds and understanding the game alone in a safe world, that's just bullshit, that means that once they'll create their avatar in mmo lif, IF they'll do it, they'll just follow the precise way they planned thanks to their safe world, killing what an mmo is: trying and retrying stuff in the real world with your pros and cons. not doing it with GM powers until you find your way-to-go template.

totally disappointed.

Kuroi, mind reader.

[Touchmee]

Ok, here is where i stand on all of this (this might be a long post).....

When i read the post made by Bobik about the "change in plans" my reaction wasn't good at all, i basically thought he had announced the end of LiF, BUT then i went away carried on with life and came back today and read a few things, weighed up the pros and cons in my head and came to a totally different conclusion even I was suprised at......

Maybe this isn't a bad thing at all. Now I agree with everything being said, if it were my choice as a player I would want just 1 large server, and i suspect from what i have read that so do Bobik and his team but it looks as though sticking to 1 server could be the downfall to LiF as it could stretch the funds to breaking point while obtaining little more income.

LiF:YO is probably the best idea for a bad situation in my eyes. Everyone is focusing the non-pvpers who will craft away on their own server etc but i don't see a problem with that at all most won't want to do that alone since surely it would get boring and lonely?, at the end of the day no pvper will sit on a extremely low populated server when there is a huge one waiting, it would also give players something to focus on while the main server is being worked on.

In all honesty i think it will premote guilds etc to play along side each other and learn the combat and how to do formations etc.

Basically it all comes down to what each person wants from the game, if you want a large pvp server then you will still get one but may have to wait a little longer or you may not have to wait as long who knows, but you also get the chance to test a lot of things and play with JUST your buddies before hand.

I would much rather have this then no LiF at all i still don't regret donating and i am still going to back this project fully.

[CrypticKiller]

I've got to admit, when I read this announcement I lost interest in this game. I play MMO's because they are interactive with thousands of other people. I hate the idea that people will be hiding on their own private servers. It'll divide the playerbase too much and the main server will lack population and competition.

[Flannery]

Ok, here is where i stand on all of this (this might be a long post).....

When i read the post made by Bobik about the "change in plans" my reaction wasn't good at all, i basically thought he had announced the end of LiF, BUT then i went away carried on with life and came back today and read a few things, weighed up the pros and cons in my head and came to a totally different conclusion even I was suprised at......

Maybe this isn't a bad thing at all. Now I agree with everything being said, if it were my choice as a player I would want just 1 large server, and i suspect from what i have read that so do Bobik and his team but it looks as though sticking to 1 server could be the downfall to LiF as it could stretch the funds to breaking point while obtaining little more income.

LiF:YO is probably the best idea for a bad situation in my eyes. Everyone is focusing the non-pvpers who will craft away on their own server etc but i don't see a problem with that at all most won't want to do that alone since surely it would get boring and lonely?, at the end of the day no pvper will sit on a extremely low populated server when there is a huge one waiting, it would also give players something to focus on while the main server is being worked on.

In all honesty i think it will premote guilds etc to play along side each other and learn the combat and how to do formations etc.

Basically it all comes down to what each person wants from the game, if you want a large pvp server then you will still get one but may have to wait a little longer or you may not have to wait as long who knows, but you also get the chance to test a lot of things and play with JUST your buddies before hand.

I would much rather have this then no LiF at all i still don't regret donating and i am still going to back this project fully.

+1

This news really got me worried at first - but when I calmed down it dawned on me as well that this is the best way to get some hard needed cash. Of course it is a cash grab! But Its better to have a cash grab like this - And still get the real deal just a little later.

I have trusted Bobik and the Team so far.
I am going to continue tursting them and see how it works out.

[Barny69]

well we all agree that a game needs lots and lots of money to be good...so if this will help get the game done go for it....but im affraid at the end there will be 100+ servers and the MAIN Server will be almost empty..i can be wrong and once the main servers up everybody will join that but who knows....im in this project for EVERYTHING...if that means getting ganked by some pvper during the game so be it...thats what mmos are about...theres a crafting part a pve part AND a pvp part. if your not into the pvp part you should consider a singleplayer game:-)

[Virdill]

Please take in hand to plan, propose alternatives to the community, using a P2P model take the time you need, start a fundraising campaign internal, as in ToA! Create polls and the community will help you, you have many more followers than I imagined, I do not think this is the only choice, this is the wrong choice, this will create a lot of damage to the game play and you know it.
If it went well for rust or DayZ does not mean that it can not fail with Lif: YO, and if it fails? Like on IndieGoGo


However, despite my criticism, know that i have a lot of faith in the developers, even after this choice

[Siegbert]

but im affraid at the end there will be 100+ servers and the MAIN Server will be almost empty..

Well, the main server will have a huge ass map and the possibility for thousands of players. That's a whole other deal than petty 64 player servers.
I'm pretty sure once the main server works and the interest in the game is high enough almost everybody will go over there.

In my experience community attracts players. For instance in Mount&Blade mod "Persistent World" there is one EU server that's regularily populated by 130-160 players (out of total 200) while the lag grows unbearibly from 130 players onwards.
You would expect they'll be evenly distributed among the other servers but they are as good as empty because everybody wants the big RP experience.

Playing a game like this with 64 players max is just a waste of time.

[Danielb]

So long as it does not affect/degrade the main server(s) that most of us would like to play on, then I am happy with this change of plan. From what I've read it will be good.

[Saxxon]

People that would stay hidden on their own private servers would not end up playing the mmo anyway.

At least they get to test and enjoy their prtvate little world.

[Kuroi]

People that would stay hidden on their own private servers would not end up playing the mmo anyway.

At least they get to test and enjoy their prtvate little world.

they would still play to check it out, and if they are THAT carebears then they'll leave, cause life is feudal. that's how sandboxes work.

[Arrakis]

I am pretty confident that most people will eventually come to realize, that it is really good move, there will be two games working simultaneously, this is extending the range of people this game is aiming. A success is inevitable.

[Gladius]

From what I understand, MMORPGs are usually rather expensive to produce, like millions of USD expensive, and it is no easy task, so I can see where Bobik is coming from with this, especially as an indie developer and having investors on his tail.

If this is what it takes for the project to stay alive, I'd say go for it.

On the subject of private servers:
I may try out private servers, to check out the mechanics and what not, but I know I would want to go on the big server eventually.
Some people brought up "Persistent World" mod for "M&B", and I agree, I too like it, but always miss a huge, open world.

I think the concern that people will stay on their private servers and avoid the large server with the huge map once it is stable, does not have to be an issue.

I hope it works out!

[Psychobilly]

I am pretty confident that most people will eventually come to realize, that it is really good move, there will be two games working simultaneously, this is extending the range of people this game is aiming. A success is inevitable.

No it's not. You are losing a lot of credibility trying to spin this. Please just stop.

It might be good for the company/devs to get some cash flow, and we all understand that. There is no way in hell it is good for LiF:MMO.

[Arrakis]

There is no way in hell it is good for LiF:MMO.

Once again:

As it was stated above, LiF MMO will not suffer in any way from LiF:YO only by some amount of development speed, which in the end might be even faster. Amount of features that 5 developers can produce in 6 month, might be less then amount of features produced by 1 developer in 3 months and then 10 developers in next 3 months

[Evilcherry]

I understand that its basically the Dayz route. At the current state even most potential customers will feel sold out, we have to lower the bar.

However, consider this. Dayz was fun at first because it was geared towards mates playing against the environment at first before it evolved into a FFA full loot MMO fest. It was fun at least at first. However, the wurm like gameplay of LiF might not survive these dark days - what make these games fun is trading, exploration, trade, banter, and metagaming, and it instead descends into minecraft.

The bar can be lowered somewhere but not somewhere else, and I believe the persistent world aspect must be preserved. I would instead encourage the devs seriously consider sharding the world, and develop cross-server travel (a la wurm- boats). Once the game got on its gears we can develop the infrastructure needed for a big non-instanced/sharded server and move players on.

[Flannery]

There is no way in hell it is good for LiF:MMO.

Once again:

As it was stated above, LiF MMO will not suffer in any way from LiF:YO only by some amount of development speed, which in the end might be even faster. Amount of features that 5 developers can produce in 6 month, might be less then amount of features produced by 1 developer in 3 months and then 10 developers in next 3 months

Even though i agree this is a good move money wise - Arrakis, and I see how this can benefit the game in the long run - I do however not think you understand or get exactly what it is people are worried about...

Yes - development of the MMO will not be affected other than a little delay. We all get that.

But I dont think this is what people are worried about.
The big issue is deviding up the people that will play.
This does not force people to have to commit to ONE world - it rather gives people choices.

This game was supposed to bring/force PvP'ers, RP'ers, Explorers and Crafters together into ONE persistent world.
And it is the fear of the game now not ending up as this epic place where every one would HAVE to coexist that is showing now.

And NO one can say it will go either this way or that... Only time will show.

I do share this fear - but, as stated before - I will chose to trust the Dev's. What choices do we really have...

After all... Abandoning the game is not an option for me personally.

But no one can come and say this does not make the future more uncertain - cause it most definitely will.
But that does not mean it has to be a bad future.

Only time will show..

[Acebane]

Thank you Flannery for trying to explain it to Arrakis.

Honestly though......... I would LOVE to start paying a subscription fee and throw this LIF:YO idea in the garbage. Most people by now, don't expect MMOs for free. We've all come to the realization that a good mmorpgs will cost money and the 15 dollars or so a month isn't too much to ask for our entertainment.

Maybe a f2p model like mortal where there's a cap on your skills (so player using f2p can only level skill to 60-70 effectiveness). Maybe then those who refuse to pay subscription fees can still play along side everyone but their character will be at a small disadvantage. Or perhaps a free trial for 2 weeks per account, or just restrict them to "noob island".

Me and my crew are DESPERATELY looking for a MMORPG to play. We're huge fans of Sandbox, full loot, pvp oriented games. LIF was sounding great to us prior to this announcement. We were all crossing our fingers for a alpha release and were going to throw all our money at LIF.

Seeing Bobik's response and many of the communities' in regards to LIF:YO made us feel there was no hope in changing the dev team's mind on this. So sadly, we're giving up on this one for now (not to mention the delay of alpha release made us sad too lol).

I'm pretty sure just about everyone here would gladly pay a subscription to get their hands on this quality MMORPG. I would, as broke as I am, even pay the 20 euros to transfer to the main island AND pay a subscription fee for every month after for like 11 euros. I don't think LIF:YO is the best idea to generate cash as it causes complications.

Please hear me and my crew out and consider an alternative aside from LIF:YO. It's more work for you and it has the possibility of lowering population on the main server. Not to mention it could potentially be a "flop", meaning it wouldn't generate guaranteed income. If it does end up that way, would the 3-4 months of work on it, uncertainy spread throughout the community, and chance of less population on the main server be worth it? Hybrid payment model of f2p/p2p seems better for guaranteed income in my opinion.

Release that alpha now without LIF:YO and all my money is yours!

[Arrakis]

I am (we are) well aware about the fact, that community may be divided, but still even at this point the game is aiming at much wider population of players now and eventually the balance will be restored by bringing much more players. Ultimately as you said time will show

[Terminus_Zaire]

I'd like to compare LiF:YO and LiF with Minecraft for a moment.

There are generally 3 types of ways to play Minecraft:
-Alone, single player
-With people you know, on adventure maps
-With people you don't know, on larger servers.

Large scale servers still seem to function well, even though you have mobs, maps, and tons of extra content that can be played with just you and a few other people. This is because you can only do so much by yourself or with other people, it limits the economy and what you can build / accomplish.

I forsee large guilds using LiF:YO to practice basic combat and crafting skills,
but then moving over to the main version to show off what they can do as a group.

However, I do believe there should be some system that encourages players to participate in the larger community server. One example of this may be that the external minigames others can play for you only benefit you on the real map.

I forsee LiF:YO being extremely useful for testing, because some of us can't make the regularly scheduled test times. I've been following this game for over 3 months, and haven't made 1 single test because of work and school.

[Siegbert]

Honestly though......... I would LOVE to start paying a subscription fee and throw this LIF:YO idea in the garbage

So do I, but if I understood it correctly it isn't about the long term costs but rather the devs immediate need for funding that makes them consider alternative plans.

I'm not to fond of the YO idea in the whole but in the end I might not even care if 10% of potential players wind up playing YO for ever instead of the MMO edition if we get a solid product that is at the whole well populated.

I do believe that quality will always breed costumers. The reason Mortal Online isn't going through the roof imho is that it's badly crafted. Everything is lagging, the sounds and animations are weird, all summed up it breaks the immersion.
Would they get rid of all their shortcommings it could be a great game.

So, LiF needs to be a well crafted game first. Population will follow.

[Aikar]

At this point I say: Go for it.

Most important factor in development is believe in yourself...

If you are certain all it's gonna "cost" the playerbase is to wait an extra year or two for the MMO version, I dont really care, but just make sure it's good enough once you release it please, all I ask.

You're closer and closer to making LiF a great game, don't give up and keep on putting up the hard work! it will definetaly pay off.

[Hodo]

Anyone who says "They wont be able to hack this game" is one of two things, naive or an idiot. Either way, wrong.

If it is an online game and clients have access to the code, there will be cracks, hacks and exploits.

I am not saying this is going to be the death of the game, I am just saying to not fool yourself in thinking this is in any way shape or form a "good" idea.

It is a prudent idea for now, but it will ultimately work out one of two ways, it will either kill the game, or it will kill the original concept.

[Kuroi]

I forsee large guilds using LiF:YO to practice basic combat and crafting skills,
but then moving over to the main version to show off what they can do as a group.

this.

and it's COMPLETELY against any MMO purpose.

as i said, inb4 mmo lif filled by just pvpers, have fun.

they should just use lif:yo for ALPHA/BETA TESTING, until they can use the main multinodes server, and then DELETE IT

[Archaegeo]

For me this totally feels like (and Im not saying its the case) they are having too much trouble making it stable for more than about 64 players and for too large of a server.

So rather than try to keep working that, lets put the Massive on the back burner and release the game we have now.

They have a solid game with the systems just needing to be flushed out, and systems that work on a small scale, so they are going to capitalize on that.

Sigh.

I know a lot of you probably thought Id be happy with this, but I am not. Its no longer a MMO, its another individual server sandbox, of which there are way to many right now.

Maybe it will be like NWN and you can code your own mechanics and rules and world, great, but its still, for now, killing LiF that we were expecting.

TLDR? - We couldn't get it stable enough for Alpha so we are going another route.

[Araceli]

I know asking for a refund is pointless but pretty much feel like $70 was stolen.

Even if it was a "donation" to help development, a 3x3 self-hosted piece of shit wasn't what I donated to, no more than if they suddenly decided to change their focus and make a medieval Angry Birds sequel.

Myself and several friends were a bit skeptical but had faith in a small-ish dev team's efforts, and the features list page was dead sexy. Unfortunately, our skepticism was justified and now the promised game is no longer a dev priority but some unwanted garbage is getting full attention.

Thanks for nothing and gfy!

[Archaegeo]

Yeah, we wont see refunds because he can say he is still working on the main game and it will come at some point in time (probably on a different engine in a couple of years on stronger servers).

100% feels like: We cant make steam's deadline for the main game, lets put out a game we can do to meet that.

Disappointed.

[Proximo]

Considering your such a small team this is a good move to get a smaller scale version of your game released to the public and generating funding. The mega server MMO that will be LiF is a huge project that will take a very long time. I completely support 64 man private servers if they are stable and working builds. It will be like Rust except way better and extremely good for clans getting to know the game.

I'm fine with having one completely stable server to play on too further development while we work towards the massive map that will be LiF.

[Kuroi]

I know asking for a refund is pointless but pretty much feel like $70 was stolen.

Even if it was a "donation" to help development, a 3x3 self-hosted piece of shit wasn't what I donated to, no more than if they suddenly decided to change their focus and make a medieval Angry Birds sequel.

Myself and several friends were a bit skeptical but had faith in a small-ish dev team's efforts, and the features list page was dead sexy. Unfortunately, our skepticism was justified and now the promised game is no longer a dev priority but some unwanted garbage is getting full attention.

Thanks for nothing and gfy!

if it may make you feel lucky, a friend of mine gave €200 for a game which has been put on hold for the baby version for future pvers and carebears

[Protunia]

Actually this is kind of kewl if you think about it.

We get the game on a private server earlier than the main server release.

And yes it will give players who do not want PvP a complete area for their own little play time. I think this will work out just fine as those players will come to the game who were not going to try it in the first place. It will also help fund the game as the main servers are developed.

Yeah its not all at once on the main server, but I think this way players can have just as much fun if not more in some cases.

I Like it and if done right people will play both types of servers.

[Slaieth]

ugh.