Life is Feudal Official Forum

[TruePain]

It could go either way, i just hope the main focus is on the global servers.

[Cndo]

Going to wait and see how it all plays out in the near future before I make any decision on if I like the change or not.

[Cian]

I can in no way support this move. If this makes sense to you from a business perspective then fine. I've no right to tell you how to run your business.

From a technical perspective this is a huge mistake. I don't care what the talking mouth pieces say. Anyone who says that LIF is unhackable or that the hacks and exploits will be mostly harmless needs to be fired.

YOU ARE NO MORE UN HACKABLE THAN THE TITANIC WAS UNSINKABLE!!!!!

I don't think I can put it any more strongly. Let me put it this way. I promise you! You likely have at least a few people in your Alpha test right now that work for these professional hack creation companies. Right now they are scraping through your client code for any sort of client side hacks that they can create. Be it wallhacks (yes that is an advantage in a pvp game), or hacks that allow flight or underground movement.

Those hacks won't even show up in Alpha or Beta. No they are smarter than that. They will wait and bide their time until release. Then you will see you tube videos popping up with hacking tools for LIF. You'll slowly see a trickle of strange things happening on the server and then the mass player exodus as people respond to the rampant hacking while you scramble around trying to institute a fix.

What do you think will happen when you release the game files? You will have done half their job for them!

Don't believe me? Ask anyone that played Darkfall. Their game was unhackable too! FOR THE FIRST THREE HOURS OF RELEASE!



All of that aside. I am slightly offended that after making a donation to the project. The resources I donated in good faith are being diverted to a side project designed specifically to raise more money. If you have to do it, that is your decision. It doesn't change how I feel though.

I hope and pray for the success of this game. I do not wish to see Bobik's dream die before it's born. Right now we are in dire need of some good news. So far we've had nothing but bad news that the green names have desperately tried to spin into something positive.

[Protunia]

If you like this game and want it to succeed then would you not agree that the best way forward is to make sure people experience the game rather than just let it die out because of funding?

Also would you not agree that LiF with Private Servers would be very attractive to many players who want to have their own game world and control the rules in it??

There are a lot of players who would have never come to LiF with Full Loot world wide PvP and with this new LiF YO beginning we will attract many of those players.

I know many people who have asked in other games for the ability to make their own Private worlds and be able to play with the guild mates, friends, family, etc without having to deal with other players who come in and grief them and destroy their world while they are playing for fun.

I actually think this step right now at this time will give LiF new life and support from a MUCH larger portion of the overall gaming community.

Yes its not a Huge World right off the bat, but its going to be many worlds where players can build, create, and experience with many like minded players who gather together and form these worlds of their own. In these worlds they will be able to build, create, fight, and grow as small player bases of up to 64 players each.

In time a New Larger Server will be released for those wanting the True Large MMO experience and they will be able to go there without ever having use the smaller Private Servers.

If anything I would say this concept will make the game population Larger and more diverse for which ever Server type a Player chooses to play on.

In the end if this is what it takes to make sure LiF survives and you are a true fan you will be on board with this step in the development process of this game.

I understand its not what some people would have liked to see happen at all, but having LiF go completely offline and never be developed is a far worse choice IMHO.

[Bobik]

Thank you Protunia, I believe you're truly one of the few who could understand the whole picture correctly and without much of emotions.

As about hacks ranting, I had tried to explain numerous times advantage of authoritative server architecture, its pluses and minuses and how it is hard in theory will be hack it. And, please, DO NOT compare us with Rust, Darkfall, Planetside that are using client side calculations and that is why it is possible to speedhack, teleport, fly and be invisible there.

Feel free to fire me for that, if you think that you understand our netcode architecture better and sure that it will be hacked.

[Beeskee]

I completely understand your first reaction, but still hope for some moral support and understanding of our situation.

After a minute or two of calming down, I am sure you have the total support of us!

This, pretty much. I doubt a hard decision is made any easier by knowing you'll have to explain it to a forum full of early donators and hope they agree.

I don't think this will have as much of a negative impact on the community as it might otherwise seem.

I'm hoping for the best, and definitely looking forward to both the MMO and the YO version.

[Siegbert]

This, pretty much. I doubt a hard decision is made any easier by knowing you'll have to explain it to a forum full of early donators and hope they agree.

I for once don't claim to have any special rights to the game just for donating. I'm merely concerned for the well-being of the game. I certainly won't regret having donated even if the game won't ever see its release. Ambitions need to be supported.

[Sensei]

I say it's probably already cost him one kidney and it's unrealistic to ask for the other one, and still expect a game afterwards.

This to me looks like "between a rock and a hard place".

I think people should stop being so needy and demanding.

It's been obvious to me that this team has been working hard to try to make something better than the other stuff out there. They've done it on fumes for a budget and in my opinion either back them or leave ffs.

But stop complaining. This was obviously never Plan A.

/rant

[Touchmee]

My plans are to keep playing the alpha tests till LiF:YO is released at which point i will play that with me friends and hopefully build up or join a decent sized guild where i can practice different things and try out different crafting etc then once the main server is released i will jump on there with whoever else i have been playing LiF:YO with.

IMHO i like the thought of preparing with a group ready to settle on a main server

[Aikar]

To be honest it is really hard to predict how it's gonna turn out.

Wether this move will affect possitively or negatively in population numbers once the mmo version is out is impossible to know, because there's so MANY factors to take into account.

If the game is good, none of this talk will matter, it will grow on itself, just like any good game in history of gaming.

If it's half-assed or missing important features is where many other factors can influence a lot on its future...

As some pointed out already it can go either way...

However I trust the developers on this one, I think that given the circunstances it may be a smart move.
They already proven they can think outside of the box and turn good concepts into content that have pretty good chances of working very well such as crafting mini-games, player formations and double stat bars etc...

I can say I trust LiF developers way of thinking much more than any other company in the industry. They are special that's for sure.

[Xenus]

I completely understand you need the money and this seems neccesary
I can wait and I'll still just see what's going to happen and how things will turn out
And of course I hope everything works out perfectly and everyone gets a great game

But at least one of the people I was going to play with has already declared LiF dead after reading the news, and I don't think the others will have a much better reaction

Good luck, you'll need it

(Can't be worse than H&H or Wurm anyway, so even if everything goes wrong you'll still do better than those)

[Jacabon]

Totally feels like bait and switch. There goes my enthusiasm. It's intriguing how detached from the fan base the devs seem to be.

[Archaegeo]

It is bait and switch from the donation perspective.

We donated to fund the development of LIF, not LIF:YO.

Development of LIF is being put on hold for YO, simple as that. I am sure they will work on it, but not as much as they will be doing to get YO ready for the masses and meet the Steam deadline.

[Sensei]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but for me it doesn't feel like bait and switch at all - it feels like someone is trying to protect my investment by not letting it get to a situation it completely collapses.

I would seriously hate to be in these guys shoes atm - the stress must be horrendous.

Even if it did collapse in the end it wouldn't make me feel cheated in any way. I'm absolutely sure that every effort has and is being made, and that's what I contributed to enable....so I've a lot less to lose than Bob and his team.

And I still have absolute faith that in the end they'll get there.

[Wigster600]

If it's run into trouble, I suggest personal servers would be a better option for short term plans.

May I also enquire why my post was removed from earlier in the thread?

I thought there were only going to be official servers to keep the community together, without people hosting their own.

[Kuroi]

i will play that with me friends and hopefully build up or join a decent sized guild where i can practice different things and try out different crafting etc then once the main server is released i will jump on there with whoever else i have been playing LiF:YO with.

IMHO i like the thought of preparing with a group ready to settle on a main server

which is exactly the bullshit about all of it.

this was planned to be JUST an mmo, those things you say are considered to be done in an mmo environment with all its dangers, instead you'll be safe as hell with your nice GM powers giving you every equip and every stat/skill in a matter of seconds, so you can find your best template in all safeness and in the less time. this is meant to be the core of an mmo, skilling up, caring about your skills, buying and crafting the right stuff to test out, NOT following a template you safely created in your world. WTF.

it would be ok in a deathmatch medieval game ala mount and blade BUT this is supposed to be a SANDBOX, you should play with constant danger when doing stuff.

[Tantal]

I am far from being knowledged about this server stuff, so maybe my question is not very clever, but why not hosting these small 3X3 km servers by the developers?

1) all the people would be happy who say, there are to many infos for cheaters when you give them all the details about the game.

2) I would also be happy when I would not have to run my computer 24/7 justt for hosting the server for my guild.

3) you obviously avoid the server crossing problems, which seem to be the actuall problem of the game.

[Siegbert]

this was planned to be JUST an mmo, those things you say are considered to be done in an mmo environment with all its dangers, instead you'll be safe as hell with your nice GM powers giving you every equip and every stat/skill in a matter of seconds, so you can find your best template in all safeness and in the less time. this is meant to be the core of an mmo, skilling up, caring about your skills, buying and crafting the right stuff to test out, NOT following a template you safely created in your world. WTF..

I don't understand... you still have all the work to do once you enter the MMO server. Nothing you build up in LiF:YO will be transfered into the MMO environment.
So if you have any advantages at all, it's knowledge which is totally fine. Before I engage in any game I'm consuming youtube videos to see how to do stuff so I don't have to learn it by trial and error.

[Kuroi]

this was planned to be JUST an mmo, those things you say are considered to be done in an mmo environment with all its dangers, instead you'll be safe as hell with your nice GM powers giving you every equip and every stat/skill in a matter of seconds, so you can find your best template in all safeness and in the less time. this is meant to be the core of an mmo, skilling up, caring about your skills, buying and crafting the right stuff to test out, NOT following a template you safely created in your world. WTF..

I don't understand... you still have all the work to do once you enter the MMO server. Nothing you build up in LiF:YO will be transfered into the MMO environment.
So if you have any advantages at all, it's knowledge which is totally fine. Before I engage in any game I'm consuming youtube videos to see how to do stuff so I don't have to learn it by trial and error.

knowledge is an advantage you should build up playing in the real world, not doing it in a safe one. trial and error is a big part of sandboxes, if you avoid it that means you just want the easy way.

when i started playing UO i knew absolutely nothing, and we can say that was the most difficult game to play at those times (it was 2001~), still i LOVED playing it with no knowledge, understanding stuff time by time while interacting with people and in all its dangerousness, skilling up stuff i guess i liked and then finding out it was bad to do etc...

if you remove that experience, the game is just a deathmatch ffa combat game.

[Bobik]

I am far from being knowledged about this server stuff, so maybe my question is not very clever, but why not hosting these small 3X3 km servers by the developers?

Because hosting requires servers, that have to be rented with funds. A lot of servers requires a lot of admin staff to set them up and make them run and restart them in case something bad had happened. It is impossible for us in our current state.

it would be ok in a deathmatch medieval game ala mount and blade BUT this is supposed to be a SANDBOX, you should play with constant danger when doing stuff.

You're completely misunderstand sandbox term I'm afraid. Constant danger while doing stuff is a "free PvP", "Full loot" game, but not a sandbox. Ability to be creative in many many ways within the game by altering its world or its rules - THAT is a true sandbox. And in that perspective I honestly believe that we're making a step towards more sandboxiness for players.

[Proximo]

You need too look at this from a development perspective. Yes we all want an open world full loot pvp game. We've already wasted months on trying to stabilize the mega servers instead of playing the game. I want to play with there engine and I want them to work on more content like combat and mounts and clan stuff.

I already knew this games development would take the better part of this year just to get rolling and as they have said they are being pressured. More then anything I want this game to happen even if it takes years to fully finish. This indie company needs funding badly since they didn't have an awesome indiegogo that gave them millions of dollars. Currently there mega server just isn't working and needs time they don't have put into it. Greenlighting a playable version even if it's 64 man private servers may be the only thing that keeps this game alive.

Just think of it as the newbie island/beta test server while supporting the team with funding. All I can really say is I have spent more money on worse games that entertained me for very short amount of times.

This game has to be successful on steam for it to continue at all so if you really want LiF to become what it needs to be everyone in this community needs to support it by spreading the word once it's released.

[Siegbert]

knowledge is an advantage you should build up playing in the real world, not doing it in a safe one. trial and error is a big part of sandboxes, if you avoid it that means you just want the easy way.

That's such a minor point. Learning stuff should make up your early game experience. After some time the majority of players will be pretty knowledgeable anyway. That's the time when every noob who just joined the game will be most likely to get steamrolled by murderous well equipped players who don't give them a chance to even learn the game mechanics. I can see how some people are being turned off by this.
This was how I felt the first times I played Mortal Online.

I believe the game will work best if everybody knows how the game mechanics work so there is less confusion. The faster we get there, the better.

[banok]

Well I hope this idea pays off. But longterm, it will hurt the mmo version unless the game popularity explodes before then.

The 64 player version has to be fun enough to make the game popular, that's the part I'm somewhat skeptical about.

But my understanding is that there might not be a longterm otherwise, if so complaining about it completely pointless and stupid.

[Kuroi]

You're completely misunderstand sandbox term I'm afraid. Constant danger while doing stuff is a "free PvP", "Full loot" game, but not a sandbox. Ability to be creative in many many ways within the game by altering its world or its rules - THAT is a true sandbox. And in that perspective I honestly believe that we're making a step towards more sandboxiness for players.

with "danger" i mean even the trial and error when skilling up, when raising a stat that maybe you didn't need, when buying something but you're not that sure that fits you but you wanna try anyway.

doing it totally safe instead, is not sandbox. is just carebearing your character template til you decide to go in the real world (IF people will ever do it once used to their nice server with their nice friends)

[Siegbert]

You're completely misunderstand sandbox term I'm afraid. Constant danger while doing stuff is a "free PvP", "Full loot" game, but not a sandbox. Ability to be creative in many many ways within the game by altering its world or its rules - THAT is a true sandbox. And in that perspective I honestly believe that we're making a step towards more sandboxiness for players.

with "danger" i mean even the trial and error when skilling up, when raising a stat that maybe you didn't need, when buying something but you're not that sure that fits you but you wanna try anyway.

doing it totally safe instead, is not sandbox. is just carebearing your character template til you decide to go in the real world (IF people will ever do it once used to their nice server with their nice friends)

Man, what's your point? They could as well search through the internet for prefered builds or have their guild mates flat out tell them what skills they'll need.

Do you seriously believe many players will test the hell out of every bit of the game before daring to set foot on the oh so dangerous online world?
And even if... who cares? Let people play the way they like.

[Kuroi]

That's such a minor point. Learning stuff should make up your early game experience. After some time the majority of players will be pretty knowledgeable anyway. That's the time when every noob who just joined the game will be most likely to get steamrolled by murderous well equipped players who don't give them a chance to even learn the game mechanics. I can see how some people are being turned off by this.
This was how I felt the first times I played Mortal Online.

I believe the game will work best if everybody knows how the game mechanics work so there is less confusion. The faster we get there, the better.

if a noob joins the game then he should look for a guild, that's what guilds are made for as well, you're not supposed to play and learn everything alone at all in an MMO sandbox

if you got steamrolled by people on MO and you decided to leave, then it's your fault and that kind of game is probably not your genre.

anyway the real issue is just that everyone donated for just an mmo game and we're now getting something different, and doing both mmo and dedicated servers is useless cause the community will be split up, period.

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Added » 08 May 2014, 18:42

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Man, what's your point? They could as well search through the internet for prefered builds or have their guild mates flat out tell them what skills they'll need.

Do you seriously believe many players will test the hell out of every bit of the game before daring to set foot on the oh so dangerous online world?
And even if... who cares? Let people play the way they like.

i'll quote myself

anyway the real issue is just that everyone donated for just an mmo game and we're now getting something different, and doing both mmo and dedicated servers is useless cause the community will be split up, period.

[Siegbert]

if you got steamrolled by people on MO and you decided to leave, then it's your fault and that kind of game is probably not your genre.

Maybe not everybody has the same frustration tolerance but would still enjoy the game once they got more into it.
How much fun do you think people have when they're just trying to get comfortable with the game mechanics while being killed 20 times and don't feel like they can do anything about it?

anyway the real issue is just that everyone donated for just an mmo game and we're now getting something different, and doing both mmo and dedicated servers is useless cause the community will be split up, period.

I'm not convinced that the community will be split up. Maybe it will grow even bigger in the end. Afaik ArmA2's sales went through the roof once DayZ came out.

[Saxxon]

May I also enquire why my post was removed from earlier in the thread?

I thought there were only going to be official servers to keep the community together, without people hosting their own.

I moved that post to this thread on page 2. You posted it in the faq thread where it clearly didn't belong. That thread is for questions not opinions. Check your pms as I sent you one about it.

[Acebane]

I'm not convinced that the community will be split up. Maybe it will grow even bigger in the end. Afaik ArmA2's sales went through the roof once DayZ came out.

I'm not entirely sure I understand the relevance. ARMA 2 was a hardcore military simulator game, a niche game if you will. DayZ was a mod created for ARMA 2 which interested a wider audience, which led them to buy ARMA 2, to play DayZ.

I don't think LIF:YO is comparable to DayZ mod. If so, it would've been:

ARMA 2 = LIF MMORPG
DayZ = LIF YO
With LIF MMORPG being REQUIRED in order to play LIF YO


But as I said, not really comparable situations. LIF MMORPG hasn't been released yet and actually will be delayed by LIF YO, which is coming out first. Imagine if ARMA 2 and DayZ Mod were completely separate games on steam, despite using the same resources. ARMA 2's sales wouldn't have gone up probably, and it wouldn't have really encouraged players to buy ARMA 2.

I don't really see LIF:YO causing people to buy LIF:MMORPG. LIF:YO will have a lot of extra freedom and mod-ability. Which the general public may like A LOT. But it's not staying true to the original vision, and that may deter those players from going to a more limited, harsher environment known as LIF:MMORPG.

Hell, if LIF:YO takes off successfully, I'll be happy for the devs. But I just can't imagine it would really HELP LIF:MMORPG. Sure it could help in funding it, possibly in raising awareness about the MMORPG and even literally encourage players to play it. But aside from that, it'll steal the spotlight from the MMORPG. Since LIF:YO will be released first, people will try that first and use that as a basis of what LIF is all about. Despite US, the community here, knowing they're separate games, the general public will lop them together as the same game with alternative servers. Not to mention, some players may prefer to have their small servers open to the public and never go on the main server, in turn stealing some of the population from LIF:MMORPG.

In large sandboxes like LIF:MMORPG, population is everything. I hope I'm VERY wrong about all that I've said. I hope LIF:YO is an amazing success and it just brings even MORE population/success to LIF:MMORPG. Here's to hoping, and waiting impatiently for LIF:MMORPG.

[Cian]

Feel free to fire me for that, if you think that you understand our netcode architecture better and sure that it will be hacked.

Fair enough. I apologize if I was unfair and harsh. I hope your theories are sound and I greatly hope I am completely wrong on every account.